Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[MoJames 8258]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

that's where it kind of fell flat, though. it's not shitbat to execute a traitor. 

Yep, just odd writing in my opinion.

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

The slow drawn out story that in certain instances seemed to go nowhere for episodes before there was a payoff is now just "let's see how fast we can get to the end". 

To me it isn't even worth complaining about anymore. It is what it is. It still is/was an amazing show. They were a victim of their own success. They screwed up the minute they decided to end it so quickly and not spread it out over another 6-10 episodes. 

[BabaYaga 15535]

Overthinking this.  Don't attribute complexity to simple lazy writing.

D&D needed Dany to become the mad queen.  Like her ancestors, writers needed her to feel betrayed to quickly and clumsily facilitate the transition.  The writers spent years making her into a valiant, likable character, then had to flip the switch in half a show.  

Chick gets her head cut off

Jon won't bang the kitty

She magically discovers apparent treason from the master of espionage - blondie figures out that Jon told Sansa who told Tyrion who told Vary's about Jon.  There.  See how simple that was.  

BOOM.  Mad queen riding a big lizard that now can now effortlessly dodge spears and scorpion bolts and breathes fire that burns rock.  The whole thing was rushed and cobbled together and we now have a little over and hour to piece it together.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

10 minutes ago, MoJames said:

Ok a couple things. Dany made it absolutely clear that she feels Jon betrayed her by telling her sister. I was never under the impression during the last episode that Varys was shifting Jon at all, outside of maybe his death where Jon gives Dany a glance.

Past that, I have no doubt that without the Varys betrayal and death, the story reads fine with Jon only needing to see Dany go shitbat crazy on KL to switch teams.

His death was pointless in Jon's arc in my opinion. If anything, it was more of a tool to let you know Dany has gone shitbat.

I disagree, Jon Snow needs someone with authority’s permission to switch teams, he is loyal to a FAULT.   Varys was giving him permission by sacrificing himself in front of him. 

Remember Qhorin Halfhand?

Varys pulled a Qhorin Halfhand.  

[Burt Macklin 19221]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Varys had to spell it out because Jon Snow is an idiot.  Varys no doubt knew what Jon Snow would say at that moment and probably calculated Tyrion betraying him.  So, in a way, Varys did pour gasoline all over himself and let Tyrion light the match.  King’s Landing was doomed at that point but Varys making such a dramatic statement was the only way to save the realm from the Tyranny of Dany. 

Tyrion knew what he did was wrong and tried to convince himself that ringing the bells would hold off Dany... wrong again.  I will be surprised if Tyrion survives the next episode.

 

37 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Varys needed to break the spell that Dany has over Jon Snow.   If Varys doesn’t give him an out that he later comes to regret then he would have likely remained loyal to Dany and she would no doubt kill him anyway to keep her throne.  

Varys never expected Jon to join him because Tyrion would have ratted them both out.  Dany was already wishful thinking it was Jon who betrayed her. 

 

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I disagree, Jon Snow needs someone with authority’s permission to switch teams, he is loyal to a FAULT.   Varys was giving him permission by sacrificing himself in front of him. 

Remember Qhorin Halfhand?

Varys pulled a Qhorin Halfhand.  

[smwhorn 484]

I'm guessing she dead . . .

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/14/entertainment/lena-headey-game-of-thrones-cersei/index.html

[Fozzz 152]

31 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Overthinking this.  Don't attribute complexity to simple lazy writing.

D&D needed Dany to become the mad queen.  Like her ancestors, writers needed her to feel betrayed to quickly and clumsily facilitate the transition.  The writers spent years making her into a valiant, likable character, then had to flip the switch in half a show.  

Chick gets her head cut off

Jon won't bang the kitty

She magically discovers apparent treason from the master of espionage - blondie figures out that Jon told Sansa who told Tyrion who told Vary's about Jon.  There.  See how simple that was.  

BOOM.  Mad queen riding a big lizard that now can now effortlessly dodge spears and scorpion bolts and breathes fire that burns rock.  The whole thing was rushed and cobbled together and we now have a little over and hour to piece it together.

Jon low key fucked everything up by refusing to have sex with Dany.  He's really the most evil one of the bunch when you think about it.

[BabaYaga 15535]

3 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Jon low key fucked everything up by refusing to have sex with Dany.  He's really the most evil one of the bunch when you think about it.

When you get a window to bang the kitty.  And you refuse the kitty.  Cities will burn....

Moral of the story.  Pound the shit out of that kitty!  Think of the children!!!!!!!

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Dany was giving Jon a loyalty test with the sex.  Jon saw through it like a boss.  Dany would have still gone inferno on King’s Landing.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Pato del Muerto 53352]

So Dani dies and there’s some sort of happy ending?  

Or she kills Jon and keeps the throne?

if the first scene isn’t her finding out about Jaime and killing Tyrion then the finale will already have gone wrong. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

26 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

 

 

Watch the Varys scenes again.  Dude knew exactly what he was doing. 

[Fozzz 152]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dany was giving Jon a loyalty test with the sex.  Jon saw through it like a boss.  Dany would have still gone inferno on King’s Landing.

Jon is never a boss on this show, and particularly not in that moment.

[smuggs 9394]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dany was giving Jon a loyalty test with the sex.  Jon saw through it like a boss. 

Plus her breath probably smelled like Drogon's ass after not having eaten anything for days.

[MoJames 8258]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Watch the Varys scenes again.  Dude knew exactly what he was doing. 

The problem isn't the actor convincing us that Varys appears to be confident in his actions and outcome, the problem is why was it written in the first place.

I disagree that Jon requires Varys blessing to go against Dany after she burns kids.

[Bigbend1812 13024]

22 hours ago, F250 said:

Did anyone notice the Aaron Rodgers cameos last night?

Wearing that knee brace under his costume

[hayden_horn 11402]

1 hour ago, MoJames said:

Yep, just odd writing in my opinion.

well, there's a lot of that going round this season.

[Burt Macklin 19221]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Watch the Varys scenes again.  Dude knew exactly what he was doing. 

No duh. It still doesn’t make sense though.

Jon doesn’t give a shit about Varys and Varys being killed for treason Jon knew he committed wouldn’t sway Jon or break some stupid spell you just made up. Jon’s already resisting Dany before the battle and any hold she had on him was assuredly broken when he saw what she did to KL. Varys being rightfully convicted of treason didn’t affect Jon. 

Not to mention Varys has never been a self-sacrificing character that’s willing to be a martyr for the realm. All his talk about the realm has always been a pretext for doing what he wants. This idea that he’s willing to sacrifice himself for the realm is made up bullshit by D&D just recently and is completely Inconsistent with his character up to this point. Varys without incompetent writers would manipulate others to do his bidding, not pull a Ned Stark and decide to stupidly but honorably die for the greater good.

It’s shitty writing, and your nonsensical attempts to connect the dots dont’t make their writing look any better. 

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

30 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Dany was giving Jon a loyalty test with the sex.  Jon saw through it like a boss.  Dany would have still gone inferno on King’s Landing.

 

There is nothing worse then the old "this isn't a test, but really is a test" mindfuck.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Not to mention Varys has never been a self-sacrificing character that’s willing to be a martyr for the realm. All his talk about the realm has always been a pretext for doing what he wants

Lulz, I almost feel bad for you.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Varys and Tyrion are probably the two biggest casualties of the subpar writing from the latter seasons. Two brilliant characters who became total jokes. Tyrion went from one of the most clever and intelligent people in the entire world to arguably the worst military mind in Westeros and someone who can't seem to make a good decision or read the writing on the wall to save his life. And then Varys pretty much just disappeared as a character and was mostly off in the background being useless somewhere before his underwhelming and unnecessary execution. Him getting caught and losing his life like that goes so far against who we've known him to be that you just have to roll your eyes at it all. 

[Fozzz 152]

Jon is just such an unlikable "hero."  All he has to do is get laid to save King's Landing from being fricasseed and he couldn't even do that.

 

imo, old school Varys would have just poisoned Dany and have been done with it.  

Edited May 14, 2019 by Fozzz

[Goo Punch 4275]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Jon is just such an unlikable "hero."  All he has to do is get laid to save King's Landing from being fricasseed and he couldn't even do that.

 

imo, old school Varys would have just poisoned Dany and have been done with it.  

It wasn't until i went back and rewatched the series for a third time (was still trying to catch it all the second time through) that i realized how abjectly stupid Ned Stark and his "honor" were, and how many thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent lives may have been saved if he (and now Jon) would stop placing "honor", a concept, above actual reality, and even other, more useful concepts such pragmatism or altruism. The Starks and their bloody honor are responsible for more deaths than any other house in the story. 

[BabaYaga 15535]

10 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Varys and Tyrion are probably the two biggest casualties of the subpar writing from the latter seasons. Two brilliant characters who became total jokes. Tyrion went from one of the most clever and intelligent people in the entire world to arguably the worst military mind in Westeros and someone who can't seem to make a good decision or read the writing on the wall to save his life. And then Varys pretty much just disappeared as a character and was mostly off in the background being useless somewhere before his underwhelming and unnecessary execution. Him getting caught and losing his life like that goes so far against who we've known him to be that you just have to roll your eyes at it all. 

That's because you can't CGI your way out of a shitty script and bad writing

Leia Poppins out from should have told you

[BabaYaga 15535]

20 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

 All he has to do is get laid to save King's Landing from being fricasseed and he couldn't even do that.

[Constant 6844]

20 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Jon is just such an unlikable "hero."  All he has to do is get laid to save King's Landing from being fricasseed and he couldn't even do that.

 

imo, old school Varys would have just poisoned Dany and have been done with it.  

Varys tried. Thats what the little girls task was. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

36 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Varys and Tyrion are probably the two biggest casualties of the subpar writing from the latter seasons. Two brilliant characters who became total jokes. Tyrion went from one of the most clever and intelligent people in the entire world to arguably the worst military mind in Westeros and someone who can't seem to make a good decision or read the writing on the wall to save his life. And then Varys pretty much just disappeared as a character and was mostly off in the background being useless somewhere before his underwhelming and unnecessary execution. Him getting caught and losing his life like that goes so far against who we've known him to be that you just have to roll your eyes at it all. 

Tyrion’s decision making went to shit for a reason.  He got greedy when he got close to Dany.  Tyrion was always a joke in the Lannister family, he was always trying to prove himself and outsmart everyone.  Once he became the Dragon lady’s trusted adviser, he got access to power he’s never had before and it fucked him up.  He went after Casterly Rock because of his stupid ego, like he still had something to prove.  FFS when Sansa Stark is calling you out for your stupidity, it’s time to reassess your perspective. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Jerry Callo 8956]

18 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

It wasn't until i went back and rewatched the series for a third time (was still trying to catch it all the second time through) that i realized how abjectly stupid Ned Stark and his "honor" were, and how many thousands and thousands and thousands of innocent lives may have been saved if he (and now Jon) would stop placing "honor", a concept, above actual reality, and even other, more useful concepts such pragmatism or altruism. The Starks and their bloody honor are responsible for more deaths than any other house in the story. 

Would have made for a great series.

[MoJames 8258]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Tyrion’s decision making went to shit for a reason.  He got greedy when got close to Dany.  Tyrion was always a joke in the Lannister family, he was always trying to prove himself and outsmart everyone.  Once he became the Dragon lady’s trusted adviser, he got access to power he’s never had before and it fucked him up.  He went after Casterly Rock because of his stupid ego, like he still had something to prove.  FFS when Sansa Stark is calling you out for your stupidity, it’s time to reassess your perspective. 

I disagree with all of your points.

[crash_davis 23465]

7 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's because you can't CGI your way out of a shitty script and bad writing

Leia Poppins out from should have told you

the similarities between the last jedi and this season are uncanny.  both shit on what it took yearssssssssssss to develop.  both had giant leaps of faiths about characters and story lines, or had story lines that had no impact on the movie or the plot.  both killed off all powerful villains who were major plot pieces without any explanation of why they were major plot pieces which is needed to understand the force and motives behind the subsequent ploys, actions, and story.

both killed a franchise. 

i can't see myself ever watching any episodes again knowing that this is how it ends. utterly fucking stupid.  

i've read the spoilers.  i know how it all ends.  i will tune in one last time to see if this last episode is even shittier in live viewing than what the spoilers say is going to happen, which was the case with the last episode.  utterly fucking stupid.

[elguapo 4620]

22 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Even better:  if the bell-ringing wasn't a standard town surrender procedure, but rather an idea that came from Tyrion in the same way we saw last night.  But in this version, Jaime made it through to Cersei a day before the attack and told her of Tyrion's plan for their escape together.  Cersei lies to Jaime that she will run off with him, but then uses the info to plan the fake surrender in order to ambush the dragons.   Jaime flips out at the doublecross and kills Cersei. 

This is actually where I thought they were going with the bell-ringing stuff and Jamie's escape when I was watching in real time.

Edited May 14, 2019 by elguapo

[Fozzz 152]

This just doesn't make any sense.  Why not just fly up to the red keep and give Cersei a face-full of dragon fire?

Quote

Benioff and Weiss have an explanation, and it’s that she suddenly breaks on the battlefield. “I don’t think she decided ahead of time that she was going to do what she did,” one of them says; “she makes the decision to make this personal” when she’s sitting on the dragon, on the wall, and “sees the Red Keep.” She goes mad, in other words, and murders millions of innocents on a sudden explosion of fury; like her father, the Mad King — whose leftover wildfire she ignites — she burns King’s Landing.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/game-of-thrones-the-bells/#!

[utee94 16071]

Yeah that's definitely where I thought the bell-ringing was headed.   But that would have been too clever for these writers and, honestly, too clever for Cersei's character.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

25 minutes ago, MoJames said:

I disagree with all of your points.

And you’re entitled to do that but what many that are complaining about the writing seem to miss is the story IS the main characters and their downfall and/or rise.  How a dragon dies or why not attack at night? kind of bullshit is irrelevant to the significance of the story.   

The writers aren’t going to say, “Hey, let’s make Tyrion stupid for no fucking reason.”  Also pretty sure GRRM made damn sure they wouldn’t fuck up the main characters’ progression. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[MoJames 8258]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The writers aren’t going to say, “Hey, let’s make Tyrion stupid for no fucking reason.”  Also pretty sure GRRM made damn sure they wouldn’t fuck up the main characters’ progression. 

And yet they did. And they made Jamie stupid for no fucking reason other than to have him and Cersi die together and they made Varys an idiot.

As well, I think GRRM is enjoying the fuck out of this. He now has more people than he could ever imagine ready to buy his books and read them.

[Lat22 4070]

59 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Jon is just such an unlikable "hero."  All he has to do is get laid to save King's Landing from being fricasseed and he couldn't even do that.

All he had to do was bang his aunt. Ick. 

[Fozzz 152]

1 minute ago, Lat22 said:

All he had to do was bang his aunt. Ick. 

imo, in that society and given that he just found out about their alleged relation very recently, i don't think that is a big deal.  Would ppl on this board really mind if they were in his shoes?

[Burt Macklin 19221]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The writers aren’t going to say, “Hey, let’s make Tyrion stupid for no fucking reason.”  Also pretty sure GRRM made damn sure they wouldn’t fuck up the main character progression. 

Lulz. I do feel bad for you.

None of this is true. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The Davids know how the author wanted it to end and gave them an outline.  The “how they get there” is the grey area. 

[Dutchrudder 11229]

I hope Dany puts Tyrion on trial like she did Varys, but when she asks if he has any last words he requests a Trial By Combat, and selects Drogon as his champion. Dragons can't talk, so it can't decline, and nobody wants to fight a dragon, so he beats the system and strolls off back home to Casterly Rock. Fade out... The End.

[MoJames 8258]

3 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I hope Dany puts Tyrion on trial like she did Varys, but when she asks if he has any last words he requests a Trial By Combat, and selects Drogon as his champion. Dragons can't talk, so it can't decline, and nobody wants to fight a dragon, so he beats the system and strolls off back home to Casterly Rock. Fade out... The End.

Ya but then Ellaria Sand breaks out of the rubble below the destroyed red keep and is able to jump on the last scorpion and shoot herself through the eyes of Drogon who lands on the three eyed Raven who was reading a book in the library killing Bran making Meera cry as she risked her life and saw Hordor die for nothing.

[Pods 7622]

"How they got there" is the problem. D&D are stupid, uncreative men that don't understand their characters. They can't even pronounce the names of several of their major characters after working on GOT for over a decade. That's Charlie Strong stupid.

[Burt Macklin 19221]

37 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The Davids know how the author wanted it to end and gave them an outline.  The “how they get there” is the part they’re butchering horribly. 

FIFY

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

33 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

And that still doesn’t explain his loyalty to Dany in the show

I think we might be under appreciating the messiah like presence of a beautiful girl with three fire breathing dragons in a world where dragons are not supposed to be a thing anymore.  

Tyrion knows all about dragons though and the Targaryan history.   He probably knows more about it than any living person.  When the thing you’ve always fantasized about becomes a reality, I imagine it’s hard to just walk away from that.

[Jive Turkey 12931]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Varys needed to break the spell that Dany has over Jon Snow.   If Varys doesn’t give him an out that he later comes to regret then he would have likely remained loyal to Dany and she would no doubt kill him anyway to keep her throne.  

Varys never expected Jon to join him because Tyrion would have ratted them both out.  Dany was already wishful thinking it was Jon who betrayed her. 

Explain why Varys "needed" to be the one that broke Dany's spell over Jon.  What in Varys's past suggests that he would be the one that had to do it?  As was stated the other night, Varys has known more kings/queens than anybody in Westeros.  He was on the small council for the Mad King Aerys, Robert Baratheon, Joffrey, Tommen, and now Dany.  Varys is a survivor.  He goes where the wind takes him.  That's why he is still alive in season 8.  I just don't buy that Varys would sacrifice himself for Jon.  Doesn't make sense to me.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

7 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Explain why Varys "needed" to be the one that broke Dany's spell over Jon.  What in Varys's past suggests that he would be the one that had to do it?  As was stated the other night, Varys has known more kings/queens than anybody in Westeros.  He was on the small council for the Mad King Aerys, Robert Baratheon, Joffrey, Tommen, and now Dany.  Varys is a survivor.  He goes where the wind takes him.  That's why he is still alive in season 8.  I just don't buy that Varys would sacrifice himself for Jon.  Doesn't make sense to me.

You have to accept that he does in fact serve the realm. 

Dany is going to kill Jon unless someone important gets Jon to wake the fuck up.

Varys had 20 years invested in project Dany and it was a mistake but he knows how to correct it and he’s willing to bet his life on Jon.  

Varys proved it to Jon by sacrificing himself.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[KeysPhoneWallet 807]

Explain why Varys "needed" to be the one that broke Dany's spell over Jon.  What in Varys's past suggests that he would be the one that had to do it?  As was stated the other night, Varys has known more kings/queens than anybody in Westeros.  He was on the small council for the Mad King Aerys, Robert Baratheon, Joffrey, Tommen, and now Dany.  Varys is a survivor.  He goes where the wind takes him.  That's why he is still alive in season 8.  I just don't buy that Varys would sacrifice himself for Jon.  Doesn't make sense to me.

Varys was trying to poison Dany, a risk he believed was worth it. The guards must have caught the girl and thus Varys. Right? He wasn’t sacrificing himself, he got caught trying to poison her food.

[hayden_horn 11402]

1 minute ago, KeysPhoneWallet said:

Varys was trying to poison Dany, a risk he believed was worth it. The guards must have caught the girl and thus Varys. Right? He wasn’t sacrificing himself, he got caught trying to poison her food.

dude, tyrion sold him out.

[LonghornSean 4072]

I definitely think they have hinted at Tyrion being in love with Dany, or at least really infatuated. I remember noticing the look he gave her early on (Season 6?) after he said something like, "He (Jorah, or maybe Dario) wasn't the first to love you, and he won't be the last."  Also when Jon boned Dany on the boat and Tyrion was hanging out longingly outside the door.

Doesn't explain some of his poor tactical decisions lately, but can give some reason for his unquestioned loyalty to her.

Edited May 14, 2019 by LonghornSean

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Furthermore, the fact that Varys is the least likely person in Westeros to sacrifice himself for anyone makes it that much more remarkable. 

Moreover, if Varys didn’t want to sacrifice himself, does anyone believe he couldn’t disappear? 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz
Drinking

[Eskimohorn 5677]

Furthermore, the fact that Varys is the most least likely person in Westeros to sacrifice himself for anyone makes it that much more remarkable. 
Moreover, if Varys didn’t want to sacrifice himself, does anyone believe he couldn’t disappear? 

You’re not making any sense son. Maybe you are a bot.