Game of Thrones Season 8 (NO BOOKSPOILERS) thread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

She hadn't turned into Hitler yet. 

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

[ajax 2677]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You know Hitler had people that were loyal to him too.  Very fine people. 

Will you fuck off with that. Go back to cloak room.

[Burt Macklin 19230]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You know Hitler had people that were loyal to him too.  Very fine people. 

Tyrion didn't believe Dany would burn the city. Most people didn't. As a matter of fact, based on episode 4, burning the city didn't even seem like a realistic possibility.

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

Wow. Just wow. 

[Loco 3754]

At least no one is bitching about only 2nd tier characters dying

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Tyrion didn't believe Dany would burn the city. Most people didn't. As a matter of fact, based on episode 4, burning the city didn't even seem like a realistic possibility.

Right, that's why he freed Jaime to prevent her from burning the city. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

The comparison is idiotic.  Hitler and the Nazis proclaimed their horrible intentions for years.  When did Dany previously advocate slaughtering innocents and civilians?   She even agreed to halt when the bells rung, until she snapped in the moment.   That Varys's prediction proved right doesn't mean that Tyrion was morally corrupt in believing that she'd do the right thing when he turned Varys in.   That's precisely why Varys didn't blame him for it. 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Right, that's why he freed Jaime to prevent her from burning the city. 

So according to you, Tyrion risks his life to free his brother to ensure the city won't burn down because he's gone fully corrupted because he turned in Varys because he's in full support of Dany, who he believes will burn the city down. That is some impressive logic, even for you.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[Pato del Muerto 53505]

Raven to dorne about jon’s parentage would have made things interesting, until khaleesi went all apocalypse now 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The point on Tyrion is he knew Varys' intentions were pure and he knew what Dany would do when he reported it but he did it anyway because Tyrion doesn't serve the realm. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Right, that's why he freed Jaime to prevent her from burning the city. 

He freed Jaime to get a surrender, which he thought would spare the city.  The surrender happened and Dany broke her word.  Tyrion reasonably believed she wouldn't.   You're really stretching to defend your extremely superficial "it's all about good men getting corrupted" take. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The point on Tyrion is he knew Varys' intentions were pure and he knew what Dany would do when he reported it but he did it anyway because Tyrion doesn't serve the realm. 

Both Tyrion and Varys did the morally right thing according to their judgment of the situation.   And both knew that, which is why there was such a touching goodbye scene between them.   Acting like Tyrion was Eichmann is just ridiculous.   Watch Varys's final words to Tyrion again. 

[Fozzz 152]

 

 

[BabaYaga 15625]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

Will you fucking go away....

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Both Tyrion and Varys did the morally right thing according to their judgment of the situation.   And both knew that, which is why there was such a touching goodbye scene between them.   Acting like Tyrion was Eichmann is just ridiculous.   Watch Varys's final words to Tyrion again. 

Tyrion has been corrupted to the point where his judgement is dogshit.  That's the point that keeps being made in nearly every episode over the last season. 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Tyrion has been corrupted to the point where his judgement is dogshit.  That's the point that keeps being made in nearly every episode over the last season. 

The only thing Tyrion has been corrupted by is shitty writing.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Tyrion has been corrupted to the point where his judgement is dogshit.  That's the point that keeps being made in nearly every episode over the last season. 

What do you think the word "corrupt" means, exactly? 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3873]

18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

You know Hitler had people that were loyal to him too.  Very fine people. 

Jesus

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

Christ

[Sbbruin 22144]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So when were the Nazis bad?  Before or after the holocaust?

[kingkoopa6 8706]

yo, when drogon came into the scene tho.. that shit was bad ass creepy

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

I would have liked to have seen another character she’s wronged before give her a more satisfying death blow, but Cersei melting down and dying a sobbing, cowardly mess is completely in character.  Having her be an actual badass when she finally has her reckoning and can’t hide behind someone else is what would be out of character and would have given her a way more triumphant send off than she deserves.  She’s a mean, spoiled, cowardly bully.

Counterpoint:

 

[Jive Turkey 13005]

Cersei’s death was an absolute let down.  As we speak, Dany has no idea if she’s dead or alive.  She assumes Cersei is dead but doesn’t know that she got buried in rubble.  WTF?

This is the Queen you are seeking to depose.  I simply can’t believe that Dany would not execute Cersei.  Either fly Drogon right up to Cersei and ask her to bend the knee.  And if she says no, “dracarys.”  Or have her men go capture Cersei and bring her to court, asking her to bend the knee.  And if she doesn’t, then execute her. Earlier in the episode, we saw Dany execute Varys for treason.  But not evil Cersei, who was married to the Usurper?   Not Cersei, who in the previous episode beheaded your BFF in front of you?

If you are going to take the throne, you have to know that the sitting queen/king is actually dead.  And Dany doesn’t.  Hell, you should probably kill all of the king’s/queen’s heirs and relatives, too, to make sure they don’t seek revenge (watch it, Tyrion).  It’s why Robert wanted to kill Dany when he learned of her existence and why Joffrey tried to have all of Robert’s bastards killed.  But Dany doesn’t even have the body of the queen and won’t because it’s buried under rubble underground.  So stupid.

And if not Dany killing Cersei, then Arya, whose stated mission in life was to kill Cersei.  And when she’s about 5 floors from doing it, she has a change of heart?  Come on.  Those last 30 minutes were painful. Watching shit fall and killing people.

As Johnny Rotten famously said, “Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jive Turkey

[UTEX90 589]

12 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

He freed Jaime to get a surrender, which he thought would spare the city.  The surrender happened and Dany broke her word.  Tyrion reasonably believed she wouldn't.   You're really stretching to defend your extremely superficial "it's all about good men getting corrupted" take. 

That's just it.  She never did give her word that recall.  Tyrion asked several times but she never answered. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, UTEX90 said:

That's just it.  She never did give her word that recall.  Tyrion asked several times but she never answered. 

She nodded in assent to Grey Worm.   I thought that was pretty clear?  Either way, Tyrion believed it to be so, which explains what he subsequently did. 

[Burt Macklin 19230]

3 minutes ago, kingkoopa6 said:

yo, when drogon came into the scene tho.. that shit was bad ass creepy

 

Yeah, that was awesome. In general, the actors, producers, cinematogrophers, etc. killed it this episode. That scene was awesome. The visuals of Drogon lighting up the city were incredible. Juxtaposing Arya and the Hound was great and very creative, but the terrible writing just outweighs all of that for me. 

Sucks because there's a ton of people who did an incredible job on that episode and even this whole season and their work will go very unappreciated due to D&D.

[Jerry Callo 8960]

5 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Cersei’s death was an absolute let down.  As we speak, Dany has no idea if she’s dead or alive.  She assumes Cersei is dead but doesn’t know that she got buried in rubble.  WTF?

This is the Queen you are seeking to depose.  I simply can’t believe that Dany would not execute Cersei.  Either fly Drogon right up to Cersei and ask her to bend the knee.  And if she says no, “dracarys.”  Or have her men go capture Cersei and bring her to court, asking her to bend the knee.  And if she doesn’t, then execute her. Earlier in the episode, we saw Dany execute Varys for treason.  But not evil Cersei, who was married to the Usurper?   Not Cersei, who in the previous episode beheaded your BFF in front of you?

If you are going to take the throne, you have to know that the sitting queen/king is actually dead.  And Dany doesn’t.  Hell, you should probably kill all of the kings/queens heirs, too, to make sure they don’t seek revenge (watch it, Tyrion).  It’s why Robert wanted to kill Dany when he learned of her existence and why Joffrey tried to have all of Robert’s bastards killed.  But Dany doesn’t even have the body of the queen and won’t because it’s buried under rubble underground.  So stupid.

And if not Dany killing Cersei, then Arya, whose stated mission in life was to kill Cersei.  And when she’s about 5 floors from doing it, she has a change of heart?  Come on.  Those last 30 minutes were painful. Watching shit fall and killing people.

As Johnny Rotten famously said, “Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

Hard to believe Dany wasn't acting rationally at the point that she lost her mind.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

Not necessarily disagreeing with your main point, but I don’t think she just snapped in the moment.  Grey Worm and the Unsullied pretty clearly had a take no prisoners directive.  They started massacring the soldiers after they surrendered before the civilian torching began, didn’t they?  (Maybe I’m not remembering the sequence right).

I got the impression she made up her mind earlier in the episode, or even at the end of the last episode, that this was going to happen.   At a minimum it happened by the time she told Jon, “Alright, I’ll rule by fear then.”

No, Grey Worm and the unsullied stopped and let the troops surrender.  The leader of the Golden Company thought it over and dropped his sword and everyone else followed.   It was only after Dany paused at the bells, thought it over, and then started her holocaust that Grey Worm pushed in. 

I mean, it's possible that Dany had her mind made up, but nobody else knew.  The unsullied were prepared to accept the surrender and everyone was watching Dany for her decision in the moment. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21551]

I hate Esossi Nazis. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I can't believe y'all don't see why Tyrion selling out Varys was a huge betrayal.  As if Varys hasn't proven his loyalty to the realm to Tyrion many times over including helping him escape from King's landing after Tyrion murdered Tywin.   

Tyrion sold out in the most treacherous way possible. 

[Fozzz 152]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I can't believe y'all don't see why Tyrion selling out Varys was a huge betrayal.  As if Varys hasn't proven his loyalty to the realm to Tyrion many times over including helping him escape from King's landing after Tyrion murdered Tywin.   

Tyrion sold out in the most treacherous way possible. 

He didn't sell out.  He did what he believed was in the best interests of the realm, he just had more faith in Dany than Varys did.  

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

Your counterpoint is the episode when Cersei was trying to get everyone to suicide before Stannis breached the keep? That was one of the main episodes I was drawing on for my argument that she wouldn’t go out in a badass blaze of glory when there was nobody left to do her fighting for her.

You didn't say anything about a "blaze of glory."  You said that "Cersei melting down and dying a sobbing, cowardly mess is completely in character."  The scene you based that opinion on is when she calmly accepted impending death and put on a brave face for her son as their deaths approached?   I don't see how one follows from the other; they are opposite reactions. 

[Fozzz 152]

Her death was lame as hell.  

[UTEX90 589]

RIght, but I think there were a few things that gave me the idea that it was possible Dany wouldn't accept a surrender.  One was Missandei's last words before she was beheaded (She was basically telling Dany to burn the city and she was the only advisor she really ever listened to or trusted)  and the second was Dany never actually said she would not burn the city if the bell rang.   When she didn't say it, I thought that was telling.  The scene where the collar was burned seemed to be a little foreshadowing of what was to come as well.  While I agree there was not enough buildup to this end by Dany, I felt they were trying to lead us there.  Dany simply quit listening to Jon, Tyrion, Varys or anyone.   She and Greyworm were going to destroy the city and not listen to any reason. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

He didn't sell out.  He did what he believed was in the best interests of the realm, he just had more faith in Dany than Varys did.  

Exactly, and that was Varys's opinion as well.   He indicated to Tyrion last episode that he'd accept whatever Tyrion did with the information about what he was doing, and then gave him a warm goodbye at his execution.  

[Neonmoon 38130]

7 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

No, Grey Worm and the unsullied stopped and let the troops surrender.  The leader of the Golden Company thought it over and dropped his sword and everyone else followed.   It was only after Dany paused at the bells, thought it over, and then started her holocaust that Grey Worm pushed in. 

I mean, it's possible that Dany had her mind made up, but nobody else knew.  The unsullied were prepared to accept the surrender and everyone was watching Dany for her decision in the moment. 

Leader of the Golden Company got killed outside the walls along with the entire gold company. 

 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Neonmoon said:

Leader of the Golden Company got killed outside the walls along with the entire gold company. 

 

 

Ah.  Well, whoever the dude was that dropped his sword.  

[Hank Kingsley 21785]

7 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Your counterpoint is the episode when Cersei was trying to get everyone to suicide before Stannis breached the keep? That was one of the main episodes I was drawing on for my argument that she wouldn’t go out in a badass blaze of glory when there was nobody left to do her fighting for her.  I guess in a way she stayed strong in trying to comfort Tommen, but she would expect Jaime to comfort her. 

I wasn't expecting a "badass" death for Cersei as some sort of reward for her ruthlessness as a character.  I was expecting her to not back down, and for someone - literally anyone - to kill her that would give some satisfaction to the viewers. 

Instead D & D gave her a graceful and forgiving death scene. Terrible.

 

[bschoolprof 6343]

who let Hugo out of the CR? Even the cabal can't take his shit here.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

4 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

He didn't sell out.  He did what he believed was in the best interests of the realm, he just had more faith in Dany than Varys did.  

The only reason Tyrion got anywhere near Dany was because Varys had faith that Dany was the one.  Once Varys realized his faith in Dany was morally misplaced and not in the best interest of the realm he brought his concerns to Tyrion.   Varys made it clear to Tyrion that he was going to serve the realm.  Tyrion was too blinded by his devotion to Dany to act in the best interests of the realm because he thought serving Dany was serving the realm (this is Tyrion's corruption).  Varys saw things with clear eyes and acted on it.  Tyrion, blinded by his loyalty to Dany, reported Varys' actions. 

[BabaYaga 15625]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I wasn't expecting a "badass" death for Cersei as some sort of reward for her ruthlessness as a character.  I was expecting her to not back down, and for someone - literally anyone - to kill her that would give some satisfaction to the viewers. 

Instead D & D gave her a graceful and forgiving death scene. Terrible.

 

I was expecting the obvious mad queen going on a rampage followed by a cliche scene of redemption and sacrifice.

Something cheesy like the battle going back and forth, victory hanging in the balance, Danny going into a rage, Drogon is mortally wounded but still airborne, Cersei grinning maniacally as victory is apparent, Danny out of options.....and her sacrificng herself and Drogon with a suicide run straight into the building.  One fell swoop.  Jon is left as the reluctant King.  

[PilotsError 2337]

That wasn't even a battle.  The reason they had to cut the numbers of the unsullied and Dothraki in half, and also kill two dragons was to even the odds to make a compelling fight.  So they did that over the last few episodes, only for there to be zero fight.  It was over almost immediately.  I mean, yes, there were some sword fights, but it was over immediately.  

[Aqua Buddha 14806]

Sorry to see Cersei go although we all saw it coming.  She was a devilish villain and Leena Hundley played her brilliantly.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4999]

Stannis wasn't corrupted by power, he was corrupted by his love for proper grammar.

[alincoln 2391]

The length of the battle from the initial sighting of Drogon to the bells ringing was a little over 7 minutes

[Mojo Hand 4580]

15 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

She was drunkenly melting down to Sansa and the rest of the women in that same episode.  She put on a brave face once because she felt a duty to comfort her child, but otherwise she pretty always throws a fit.

Which part?  I think your memory is way off. 

Pretty badass here:

Here she complains that she wishes she was born a man, and would rather face a thousand swords outside than having to be cooped up in that room with the women.   Again, calm and relatively badass. 

Here she calmly orders the withdrawal of Joffrey and tells Sansa that they may lose but she won't be taken alive. 

Then Lancel tries to tell her what to do as the city is falling, and she fucking shoves an arrow in him harder

How does this in any way jibe with her approaching death as a sobbing, cowardly mess? 

I mean, agree to disagree and all, but I don't even remotely see what you are talking about. 

Compare to this:

I don't want to die, please don't let me die, tears 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[alincoln 2391]

In addition, the spoilers (which I haven't read and provide that the final ending will be highly disappointing) were evidently accurate for Episode 5.

[Hank Kingsley 21785]

Totally agree. 

 

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

I bet Cersei is regretting upholding the sacred tradition of parley now.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

The horse = Bran?  Also, yes it would've been easy for Dany to just fly in and burn the red keep, but she wanted Cersei to see the carnage it got personal for her.  And why wouldn't Cersei's demeanor be different at the end with Jamie vs a chat with Ned?  

[henrygandorf 29225]

23 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I wasn't expecting a "badass" death for Cersei as some sort of reward for her ruthlessness as a character.  I was expecting her to not back down, and for someone - literally anyone - to kill her that would give some satisfaction to the viewers. 

Instead D & D gave her a graceful and forgiving death scene. Terrible.

 

so i've read several people on here make references to cersei's death not only being ok, but somewhat expected because of grrm's trollish way he fucks with the audience/readers and twists things around.  the tradition of this show is that a lot of people die, often when you don't quite expect it - and they're often times good, noble, and likable characters.

but there has also been a long and steady trend of unlikable characters getting their just desserts and dying in a very satisfying way for the viewer.

off the top of my head:

ramsey - loses battle, eaten by his own rabid, hungry dogs

joffrey - chokes to death at wedding in front of everyone

walder frey - killed by arya in front of whole family and his men

the night king - has battle won, but gets stabbed by arya sneak attack

littlefinger - great character, but ultimately evil, double-crossed by his own attempted double-cross, throat slit by arya

the mountain - assuming he's dead, epic battle with his brother where they both die

the high sparrow (what a terrible part of this tv show) - gets blowed up along with everyone he cares about

 

i'm sure there are more examples, but the bad guys get theirs in this tv show.  the good guys often do too, but we always get to see it.  the cersei death (assuming she's dead, which i'm not completely sold on) was poorly executed and ultimately unsatisfying no matter who you're rooting for.

i'm getting really tired of a twisty type of show getting a free pass on anything the viewers may not like just by saying, "well, that's how this show has always been lulz, you're just not very good at paying attention to what was perfectly obvious."

if things have to be explained on "inside the episode" featurettes, then it's because they fucked something up.  not because i'm not a sophisticated enough television viewer.

[LonghornSean 4103]