Back injury. Help!

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

For those that recall my fragile tendencies from the last site, let the jokes commence.

I'm really, really hurting here.  This past Fri, I was cycling.  Felt a tinge.  Decided to finish up my ride - another 10 miles.  When I got home, it was painful, but I could move.

Sat I end up at an emergency clinic as the pain got worse.  Given anti-inflammatories, muscle relaxers, Toradol shot.

Feel a tad better Sun morning.

Something happened Sunday afternoon that has made this 10 times worse.  I went to my doc on Monday and was switched to a steroid pack.  I'm seriously FAR worse today than I have been since Fri.  It took me 15 mins to get from the couch to the bathroom just now.  I'm yelling out like a total puss every time I have to move.

I've herniated a disc before - about 5 and 3 years ago.  I seem to recall it healing rather quickly.  Matter of fact, I cancelled the steroid/spinal procedure that was scheduled. I certainly didn't get worse.  IIRC, I was actually back on the soccer field less than 2 weeks after the initial injury.

Yesterday, I was concerned about the short term pain assuming that it'd heal or feel better after a couple of days.  At this point, I'm starting to worry about long term issues. Over the weekend, I was mostly ok when not moving.  Now I'm hurting just laying on my back.

Has anyone had an experience like this - notably the pain level and ability (or inability currently) to move going from a 5 on Day 1 to a 10+ on Day 5?  Does this sound like a herniated disc or something else?  Since I was riding a bike, I know it can't be bone related.  

[phdhorn 6,224]

Not to belittle your difficulty with what I'm about to say, because I know that hurt - and that's the point.  But it's not rare at all.
 

I've had bouts of sciatica which pretty much hurt like you're saying, even more.  The first time it happened it was so fucking bad I was curled up in a fetal position for at least an hour and somehow made it to the ER, where I was balled up on the floor there, it was too painful to do anything else.  And scary as fuck.

In ensuing years, I've had several bouts, none that was that godalmighty boiling oil bad, but bad.  Fortunately they eventually go away, but they seem to take a bit longer each time.  This last bout went from Feb. to just about mid-May.  And it was very painful to do much of anything, but I've learned to grit through it.

I'm fortunate unlike some people in that it never really goes away for them.  For me it's been about 5 bouts in about 10 years.  Then it's gone, although I have to therapy the legs becuase they get a little weak from not being able to run (usually I can walk with pain, and slowly). I"m also fortunate that it's not so debilitating (unlike some others) that I can at least try to function.

And like you, it can come on for me with nothing... or next to it, no blunt twist or anything, just a bad move or a night "sleeping on it wrong".

So yeah, I've been there, so have lots of other people on here (due to various causes).  What your're describing is not rare at all, but not sure what is causing it for you.  Ruptured disc or something that's pressing on the sciatic (or other) nerve.

Edited July 11, 2018 by phdhorn

[Hank_Hill 18,787]

Donde?

 

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Thanks PD.  I was curious as to why the first two bouts in the past seemed to heal rather quickly and certainly didn't get worse after the initial injury.  This one is doing the opposite.

I'm really dang lucky I'm a teacher because there's no way I could work in my current condition.

[That Guy 955]

His back you daft mofo.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

And, btw, I've had quite a list of injuries and nothing compares to this.  Broken ribs (twice), two knee reconstructions, broken wrist, collapsed lung (twice), I could still pretty much function in dealing with those injuries; this one not so much.

[RPM 26,315]

Pro Tip: Don't get old.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

12 minutes ago, RPM said:

Pro Tip: Don't get old.

Too late.

[Macanudo 12,974]

34 minutes ago, RPM said:

Pro Tip: Don't get old.

I hurt my back a few weeks ago bending over to pick something up off the floor of my car.   Took almost a week to really get better and it still tweaks every now and then to remind me who's in charge.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

Pro Tip: Don't get old.

So yer sayin' live dangerously.

[zork 629]

I'm not a doctor or a chiropractor.  But I did go to a chiropractor once after I took a charge playing pickup basketball that didn't seem bad at the time.

Spoiler

 

came home after the games and took a shower, fell asleep on the couch.  woke up in the type of pain you mentioned and I felt like I couldn't move.  had to roll out of the couch and crawl to my car.  went to the chiropractor.  (I looked it up in between and called to be sure of availability)

he said it was going to be a set of 3x per week visits for 40 weeks.

I never went back but this is what happened on the visit that helped and what I read subsequently that also helped.

the exercise ball that you sit on, moving back and forth and in a circular motion going counter then clockwise.  start slow and just move it steady.  after about 10 minutes it loosened the impacted vertibrae, you could hear them release.  it was like squirting oil on the tinman in the wizard of oz.  it was still very tender but I could walk normally.

since then.  anti-inflammatory medicine to get the  swelling/irritation/pain to dissipate.

rest. and rest with proper posture especially when lying down.  when you are able and start slow and taking it easy:

do stretches and exercises that simulate those ball ones mentioned above as well as:

while lying down  pull both knees to your chest and hold it. 

strengthen your stomach muscles, and lower back, via proper pushups,(back straight)

planks,(start small and increase plank time over time), etc, etc.

I never had to have surgery for lower back issues.  I did have a recurrence a couple months later when bending down to pick up a piece of dirty laundry.  I missed it and then bobbed down to pick it up again and it moved that sensitive spot in my back.  (big pain again but not locked up)

I went to the couch.  then did stretches, anti-imflammatories, and more stretches and planks.  years later it is all good.

 

Not sure you will have the same experience as me. but good luck to you as well.  There is a ton of information on lower back stretching exercises.

 

sorry for the longcat, spoilered for that.

 

 

 

[RPM 26,315]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So yer sayin' live dangerously.

At our age, everything is dangerous. I jacked my back up in a car wreck in the early 80's. I can do absolutely nothing and it starts to hurt. I never expected to live this long. Must not have done the 70's/80's right.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Yep.  The first time I hurt it, I had cut/spun quickly on the soccer field.  That made sense.

Second time, I was - literally - bending over to put on my cycling shorts to ride in the mountains.  That made no sense.

This past time, I know I tweaked it riding my bike but the severity of pain (5 days later) isn't making a lot of sense to me.  Saturday/Sunday I was fine if immobile and had some decent pain when moving.  Today, I can't even sit or lay down without severe pain.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

And to add, I may be fragile, but I'm not a pansy when it comes to pain.

When I broke my ribs the first time, I actually finished my soccer game before going to the ER.

When I blew out my knee for the first time, I got a flat in on the way back to Austin from my ortho in Dallas.  It was Sunday, before cell phones, and I didn't have any money.  I had to push/carry my spare tire about 2 miles to a shop, then jog about 4 miles to an HEB and get Western Union money from my 'rents, and get back to the shop before it closed.  I did this on a blown out knee between the injury and before I had surgery.  So, I can deal with pain  This back thing though...

[zork 629]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

Pro Tip: Don't get old.

better than the alternative

[DaysOff 7,944]

Time heals all wounds. And when it's healed, keep those hamstrings stretched. Prone push ups, core work, bridges. I blew my back out a week before our national championship game in '05. Never knew I was so stiff until then.

[torre 1,285]

11 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Time heals all wounds. And when it's healed, keep those hamstrings stretched. Prone push ups, core work, bridges. I blew my back out a week before our national championship game in '05. Never knew I was so stiff until then.

Great advice,  especially since you have a previous herniated disc.

Did the doctor offer any diagnosis ?    Be good to return and ask for MRI.

[Quagmire 2,147]

Do you workout at all? Had similar issues, strengthening your core helps a lot as well as stretching. Weak core means your back works harder under loads .

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

I play soccer and bike quite a bit but nothing specific to core.  It's odd because I never have any back pain or soreness at all save for the three aforementioned incidents.  I guess I'd be all over the core stuff if I ever had soreness.  Def will take this advice when i heal.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

56 minutes ago, torre said:

Great advice,  especially since you have a previous herniated disc.

Did the doctor offer any diagnosis ?    Be good to return and ask for MRI.

She basically did what I expected and wanted foregoing the xray and MRI right off the bat - $$$.  I'd rather this be the subsequent option.

[Gil Bang 25,907]

Soccer?  

Dude. soccer was invented by european ladies so they'd have something to do while their husbands were cooking dinner. 

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Yeah.  Then I guess I'd be playing with the European ladies while their husbands cooked.

[orangecat92 306]

In addition to the core work..there is one other thing thing that has helped me...ashiatsu is a woman walking on your back chest legs....good therapist can move muscles....I feel like my ashiatsu lady is a combo of massage and chiro...reminds me I need to schedule one more visit.

[El Diablo 4,232]

I injured my back in '96, I was 36 and in great shape. Had to just quit doing certain things. Yoga is your friend. It took me months from that initial nerve damage (bulged disc) to get back to normal. Had a number of "episodes" after that, was laid up anywhere from 3 days to a week of pretty much just bedrest over the ensuing years. Good luck. Sucks bad but the good thing is that MOST nerve injuries will abate with time. How much time and to what degree is the question.

[Hank_Hill 18,787]

Yea, there’s more or less not shit you can do to avoid it. Backs are designed for failure. Core helps though.

[Bevo 13,559]

Yoga, foam roller, swimming, other core work, NSAIDS. I was happy with arrosti. My cycling instructor who also does cardiology testing recommended it. It is basically like trigger point massage which is a deep massage in a very specific area: For me, I was having an IT band like pain caused by lower back issues and I was in probably level 8 constant pain. I told the instructor that I didn't really believe in chiropractors. She said arrosti started with the SA Spurs and I would only have to go a few times. Insurance pays for it and if I didn't like it, I could just stop so there really wasn't much to lose. Anyway, he mainly dug his thumb into my hip for about an hour and taught stretching techniques. After a couple of visits, my pain was gone to where I could take care of it myself. I used Jeremy Robillard off Crystal Falls but last I heard he was on a leave of absence. The person you use does matter especially because the guy put a lot of strength into loosening the muscle so a small person probably wouldn't have worked. 

 

BTW, cycling screws up my back. The basic problem started because I did stupid stuff when I was young. Tons of basketball playing inside the paint against NFL offensive linemen (and I'm 5'10 165lbs so it was pretty brutal - like putting their hand in the small of my back and shot putting me). And chicken fight with me carrying those dumbasses. Just stuff like that. It adds up over time.

[Brewin’1up 34]

Sounds like a bulging / herniated disk to me. I had this happen in the early 2000s and was laid up for a couple weeks. The only position that alleviated "some" of the pain was to lay on the floor, flat on my back with my knees bent or with a pillow under my knees. I eventually had to get the steroid epidural injections so I could at least function while it healed. Still every once in a while I'll reach to pick something up and feel a twinge that reminds me its still there.

[chesthair 231]

5 hours ago, Brewin’1up said:

Sounds like a bulging / herniated disk to me. 

agreed.

 

i had injections and helped for a bit.  few years ago had the discectomy and helped a ton. still have pretty bad back problems but at least now i can exist without wanting to eat a bullet.  i will agree with the stretching/core stuff mentioned above.  i have found landmines and box squats (light weight on both) have helped as much as anything i have done. 

[dark54555 72]

This sounds like the progression of a herniated to ruptured disk.  Family member had something like that happen about 15 years ago, progression was fast and surgery ended up being the only option.

[B00M 6,413]

While you're recovering you should have plenty of time to read and begin to implement: 8 steps to a pain free back by esther gokhale

It's readily available in multiple formats and gets great reviews because long term, it works. You can learn how to passively strengthen your core and ass to turn this cycle of pain around. In the mean time, you need quality massage, frequently, to pull yourself from the brink. 

 

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1,603]

On 7/10/2018 at 8:43 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

So yer sayin' live dangerously.

No.  He's saying he's Frankenstein's monster.  

[phdhorn 6,224]

On 7/12/2018 at 7:27 AM, Brewin’1up said:

Sounds like a bulging / herniated disk to me.

Yeah, me too.

Either that or Ass-AIDS.

[bernorange 8,359]

On 7/10/2018 at 7:04 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

... Has anyone had an experience like this - notably the pain level and ability (or inability currently) to move going from a 5 on Day 1 to a 10+ on Day 5?  Does this sound like a herniated disc or something else?  ...

Oh yeah, I posted about my experience on TOS.  I messed up my back/butt really good about five years ago.  Only, my pain went from 0 to 8 within minutes of the injury.  It went from 8 to 10+ a few hours later while I was at an urgent care center.  Doc there had just given me some heavy pain medication and sedative and they didn't do shit.  I almost couldn't make it out the door even with crutches. In my case, herniated disk, aggravated piriformis muscle and bursitis (hamstring meets pelvis).  Worst pain I have ever experienced.  Completely debilitating.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Yeah.  I'm still dealing with this.  Day 10.  Days 1-3, my pain was bearable unless I had to move.  4-8 I couldn't get out of bed, off the toilet, etc. Without screaming.  Now I'm able to move around more, but the pain when just lying or sitting still is worse.

I have no idea what's going on.  Gdamn doctor gave me 15 x 30 mg Codeines.  I had to take 2 1/2 just to get relief.  Of course they're long gone.  I found an old prescription of Toradol which actually helped.  Called yesterday to see if I could get a few more days of it and was denied and told to go to PT.  How the hell am I supposed to do PT when I can barely move?  This sucks ass.

[Brewin’1up 34]

Your level of pain sounds exactly like my bulging disks, I couldn't move without excruciating pain. 

You'll never feel as helpless as having your back messed up.... back so knotted up it feels like you're laying on a bag of tennis balls, having to piss in a jar because you cant get out of bed, eating pain pills like they're Tic-Tacs, just to take the edge off, but they never really alleviate the pain, not able to take a shit because you're all stopped up from the pain pills, and you're not able to find a comfortable position to lay so you can never get any restful sleep.

Sound familiar?

You need to get an MRI to confirm bulging/herniated disks, then get a recommendation to see a Pain Specialist for possibly (probably) epidural injections.

[bernorange 8,359]

Oh yeah, that MRI... When I took mine, the pain was very strong and I was not on any pain medication.  MRI tech says it will take 15-20 mins or so to cycle through all the stages of the process and I can't move or they have to start over.  So I'm in the worst pain in my life and trying so hard not to move and eventually, my muscles start spasming.  It was fantastic. 

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Quote

You'll never feel as helpless as having your back messed up.... back so knotted up it feels like you're laying on a bag of tennis balls, having to piss in a jar because you cant get out of bed, eating pain pills like they're Tic-Tacs, just to take the edge off, but they never really alleviate the pain, not able to take a shit because you're all stopped up from the pain pills, and you're not able to find a comfortable position to lay so you can never get any restful sleep.

That just about sums it up except for the pissing in a jar part.  I'm too damn stubborn to go this route.  Best part is that the meds have done something to my prostate so I have to sit down to pee because it's taking 10 mins a pop to clear out my bladder.  I'm only taking meds at night because, as of tomorrow, I'll be out.  Still pissed at the response from the doctor.  I don't understand the concept of physical therapy when I'm having issues just getting out of bed.

[Baboontyme 2,809]

Alright Shaggy MDs DOs and nutty chiropractors, could use some help with your magic. 

I have what I think might be a strained/pulled lat? It's only on my lower right side of my back, but above the ass. I think it's gotta be the lat because I can find the muscle at/near my spine and follow it diagonal and down towards my right ass cheek, and right in the middle there is primarily where it hurts. It kind of resonates into the top of my ass cheek sometimes. I didn't have an "injury" per se, but noticed it getting sore the next day after a workout, and I kept working out (eliminating most things to do with back, core and legs) for a few days until the after effects/pain in the area were pretty bad. (does not hurt during exercising, just afterwards). The pain is "sore muscle" pain, but pretty constant. 

Does this just sound like a muscle strain or possible disc/nerve injury? 

[EE2B 1,565]

That’s definitely the first symptom of back aids. Good luck.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,867]

Contrary to what your mother told you, excessive masturbation does not cause you to go blind or grow hair on your palms.  However, it does make your back hurt.

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

Could be your SI joint.  I've been having issues with one of mine for months now.  

I had a hot PT "pop" mine after a bike race a couple of years ago.  Weird feeling to have a chronic pain disappear in a split second.  Of course, you're not really fixing the issue by doing so.  Pain came back gradually over a few days.  But again, she was hot.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

On 5/28/2021 at 8:13 AM, Baboontyme said:

Alright Shaggy MDs DOs and nutty chiropractors, could use some help with your magic. 

I have what I think might be a strained/pulled lat? It's only on my lower right side of my back, but above the ass. I think it's gotta be the lat because I can find the muscle at/near my spine and follow it diagonal and down towards my right ass cheek, and right in the middle there is primarily where it hurts. It kind of resonates into the top of my ass cheek sometimes. I didn't have an "injury" per se, but noticed it getting sore the next day after a workout, and I kept working out (eliminating most things to do with back, core and legs) for a few days until the after effects/pain in the area were pretty bad. (does not hurt during exercising, just afterwards). The pain is "sore muscle" pain, but pretty constant. 

Does this just sound like a muscle strain or possible disc/nerve injury? 

Try stretching out your piriformis muscle (good piriformis stretching exercises). The piriformis can clamp down on the sciatic nerve. 

disregard the needle for the moment. This is a rear view with piriformis and sciatic nerve isolated in your ass area.

I had a good physical therapist who worked wonders on my piriformis with her gentle elbow. If it's the right spot, you will know it. 

This stretch by particular worked well for me:

[Irish Wrist Watch 1,359]

Lay on your left side. Have your massage therapist (wife)(significant other) use their forearm to put pressure on that big back muscle on the right side while you pull your right knee up to your chest, then stretch the opposite way. Push your right knee/leg as far down and back as possible. Repeat several times. This isolates and stretches out that muscle. Do it for both sides. I do this before every tennis match, plus some door jamb stretches of my lats.

Using my thumb, I also hold down each of the four big scalene muscles near the base of the clavicle, then nod and twist my neck to the opposite side (while keeping your other arm next to your body). This helps loosen up the shoulders and releases a tremendous amount of tightness in the neck. I you have neck pain, this will take care of it. If you work at a computer, your scalines are tight. You'll notice a difference immediately. Be careful, do it slowly. It can be pretty painful. There are a couple of other scaline stretches, I believe. Hold one arm down, use the other to pull your head to the side.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Redneck Mutha 7,953]

[Nolacycling 893]

Swimming does wonders for core strength and is a pain in the ass. Got me through my back problem.

[Jkwellborn 6,686]

Alright Shaggy MDs DOs and nutty chiropractors, could use some help with your magic. 
I have what I think might be a strained/pulled lat? It's only on my lower right side of my back, but above the ass. I think it's gotta be the lat because I can find the muscle at/near my spine and follow it diagonal and down towards my right ass cheek, and right in the middle there is primarily where it hurts. It kind of resonates into the top of my ass cheek sometimes. I didn't have an "injury" per se, but noticed it getting sore the next day after a workout, and I kept working out (eliminating most things to do with back, core and legs) for a few days until the after effects/pain in the area were pretty bad. (does not hurt during exercising, just afterwards). The pain is "sore muscle" pain, but pretty constant. 
Does this just sound like a muscle strain or possible disc/nerve injury? 

I think we found NowThis’s sock.

[Baboontyme 2,809]

On 5/31/2021 at 1:42 PM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

Lay on your left side. Have your massage therapist (wife)(significant other) use their forearm to put pressure on that big back muscle on the right side while you pull your right knee up to your chest, then stretch the opposite way. Push your right knee/leg as far down and back as possible. Repeat several times. This isolates and stretches out that muscle. Do it for both sides. I do this before every tennis match, plus some door jamb stretches of my lats.

Using my thumb, I also hold down each of the four big scalene muscles near the base of the clavicle, then nod and twist my neck to the opposite side (while keeping your other arm next to your body). This helps loosen up the shoulders and releases a tremendous amount of tightness in the neck. I you have neck pain, this will take care of it. If you work at a computer, your scalines are tight. You'll notice a difference immediately. Be careful, do it slowly. It can be pretty painful. There are a couple of other scaline stretches, I believe. Hold one arm down, use the other to pull your head to the side.

Do you have a visual you can link to for the neck exercises?

Edited June 7, 2021 by Baboontyme