Formula 1 2024

[Goofyboy 3,002]

He was 100 percent being a cunt.

Yeah - you’re right. My apologies.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

1 hour ago, dieucla98 said:

Damn you, Lando... I was just starting to like you. 

Poor Lando.

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

6 hours ago, NoName said:

Fernando was fucking pissed (right) after the race btw

I missed it, for what reason? Stroll holding him up?

[Goofyboy 3,002]

I missed it, for what reason? Stroll holding him up?

Team orders. They let Stroll go after Yuki. He couldn’t pass Yuki and was supposed to give the spot back.

[wood 10,904]

11 hours ago, texas08 said:

Bullshit.

 

piastri wasn’t doing shit 

The only reason Lando was ahead was because he made the deal for the undercut. You make the deal, you benefit from the deal, and then you honor the deal. Otherwise you're a cunt like Vettel. But in the end, he did the right thing.

11 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

It is very interesting to see the reemergence of “Young Max” now that the cars are much closer in performance. I’m generally one to give him the benefit of the doubt. It also gives credibility to the argument about how it’s so much more the cars than the driver.

IMHO that's never been in doubt. 

11 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I think, if I were Lando, I’d just ride this one out and wait until the post-race debrief. The team has been very good to him, and also Piastri, so I’d not risk upsetting the apple cart for the rest of the season.

Indeed.

10 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Fernando is faster than you. Multi 21. Max/Kvyat in Singapore. Countless other team orders. This isn’t a brand new situation, guys. 

Yep. Hell, it even happened to Alonso today in this race. Not as blatantly tho imho.

9 hours ago, NoName said:

Fernando was fucking pissed (right) after the race btw

Probably due to the horribad AM race strategy as much as anything.

9 hours ago, Levi said:

VCARB really screwed over Danny with strategy and they should have finished with both drivers in the points. 

AM fucked their strategy before the race weekend even started. The mistake was the entire weekend plan. The AMR24 is one of the highest tire deg cars on the grid. Aston arrived to the race (forecast with high track temps on Sunday) with 1xH, 1xM and 4xS, and they were the only team on the grid that was forced to use the soft during the race. Everyone else had either 2 mediums or 2 hards for the race. If your tire deg is bad, why paint yourself into the corner of having to use the softest tire in a race? They scored an own goal. Stroll's strategy was shit and Alonso's was just horrible. What's really bizarre is that AM seems to be aware that they don't have the tire whispering car of last year but still go with strategies needing exactly that. Fucking crazy.  There are so many areas where Aston needs to improve. Race strategy, pitstops, race operations etc. It’s incomprehensible how they could ruin their race even before the start with their tire choices, when tire deg is always an issue with their car, ignoring the dry, hot weather forecast for Sunday. Not to mention several instances of poor timing during qualy where they put the drivers in traffic and fucked them. 

3 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I missed it, for what reason? Stroll holding him up?

2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Team orders. They let Stroll go after Yuki. He couldn’t pass Yuki and was supposed to give the spot back.

Yeah the problem was that they made the swap deal so late. I think Lance was still on Yuki's gearbox all the way to the line.

Edited July 22 by wood

[Mach 1 1,676]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, that was a masterclass in terrible strategy. He was 100 percent being a cunt.

I watched with a family friend that’s a competitive mountain bike and BMX racer that has participated in podiums. He agreed the exchange with Hamilton was bad but the champagne spray on podium was particularly bad. For him to bypass Piastri and go straight for Hamilton - he considered it a major asshole move.

[Goofyboy 3,002]

I thought he went around Lando because Piastri was putting down his trophy and last year Lando broke that trophy.

[Mach 1 1,676]

Could be. Just a side observation from someone neutral that reinforced my thought that Lando is actually an entitled cunt with one race win in 5? seasons that can throw shade on Hamilton.

[Prepuce of Doom 20,900]

33 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

I watched with a family friend that’s a competitive mountain bike and BMX racer that has participated in podiums. He agreed the exchange with Hamilton was bad but the champagne spray on podium was particularly bad. For him to bypass Piastri and go straight for Hamilton - he considered it a major asshole move.

I haven't participated in podiums (though I did move a lectern once) but that whole deal jumped out at me too. 

[Levi 2,566]

2 hours ago, wood said:

The only reason Lando was ahead was because he made the deal for the undercut. You make the deal, you benefit from the deal, and then you honor the deal. Otherwise you're a cunt like Vettel. But in the end, he did the right thing.

IMHO that's never been in doubt. 

Indeed.

Yep. Hell, it even happened to Alonso today in this race. Not as blatantly tho imho.

Probably due to the horribad AM race strategy as much as anything.

AM fucked their strategy before the race weekend even started. The mistake was the entire weekend plan. The AMR24 is one of the highest tire deg cars on the grid. Aston arrived to the race (forecast with high track temps on Sunday) with 1xH, 1xM and 4xS, and they were the only team on the grid that was forced to use the soft during the race. Everyone else had either 2 mediums or 2 hards for the race. If your tire deg is bad, why paint yourself into the corner of having to use the softest tire in a race? They scored an own goal. Stroll's strategy was shit and Alonso's was just horrible. What's really bizarre is that AM seems to be aware that they don't have the tire whispering car of last year but still go with strategies needing exactly that. Fucking crazy.  There are so many areas where Aston needs to improve. Race strategy, pitstops, race operations etc. It’s incomprehensible how they could ruin their race even before the start with their tire choices, when tire deg is always an issue with their car, ignoring the dry, hot weather forecast for Sunday. Not to mention several instances of poor timing during qualy where they put the drivers in traffic and fucked them. 

Yeah the problem was that they made the swap deal so late. I think Lance was still on Yuki's gearbox all the way to the line.

Was your reply to me supposed to be adding another instance of team with bad strategy? 

[wood 10,904]

12 minutes ago, Levi said:

Was your reply to me supposed to be adding another instance of team with bad strategy? 

Yep.

[Levi 2,566]

9 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep.

Ah ok, wanted to make sure because you went off on AM. And yeah most of the grid walked away having horrible strategy during the race. I think 2, maybe 3 liked their strategy execution? 

[deft 6,747]

Any of us still watching is still just examples of bad team strat. Just watch the season recap on Netflix for all the juicy deets yall.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

Was Verstappen even investigated for the dive bomb that almost took out Lewis? How does he not get a penalty for that?

 

Wow. 

Edited July 22 by ConferenceRoom

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

Magnanimous racing legend Lewis Hamilton saves Jos Verstappen's petulant racing infant. 

[Fastbreak 3,890]

Damn you, Lando... I was just starting to like you. 

What a dick. Lewis was trying to be cool to him and he acted like a punk

[G650 13,195]

22 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

And yeah. Max the Driving Baby is back in force. You love to see it. What an asshole. 

[wood 10,904]

3 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Magnanimous racing legend Lewis Hamilton saves Jos Verstappen's petulant racing infant. 

Yeah I was a little surprised Lewis said he thought it was a racing incident, although I can sorta see the racing incident angle since Max did lock up massively. Had he not done that, there's a decent chance he pulls off the move on the inside, and a good chance there's no contact even if he couldn't make it stick. I've seen much worse moves not get penalized, and much less offensive moves get hammered. It's all over the place.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

My impression while watching it live and after the handful of replays was that there was no way he was making the corner. I don't think there's anyway he could have made the move stick - it was basically a more extreme version of his understeer into turn 2 that cost him the move earlier in the race. 

[wood 10,904]

7 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

My impression while watching it live and after the handful of replays was that there was no way he was making the corner. I don't think there's anyway he could have made the move stick - it was basically a more extreme version of his understeer into turn 2 that cost him the move earlier in the race. 

Yeah that car really did not want to turn in at all. I wonder where RBR lost the plot on their development. I saw something the other day that said Newey left RBR because of a decision that had been taken re: the direction of the car. I wonder if that's true, and if so, what that decision was.

[utee94 15,708]

It was an obvious dive-bomb with zero chance of success unless the other driver changes everything in order to avoid your dumb ass.   A textbook Max dick move and he and Lewis are both lucky they somehow touched tire to tire, or that collision would have been far worse.

Sounds like Lewis called it a racing incident simply because somehow the idiot stewards didn't come into it saying it was entirely Max's fault-- which it was.  I guess he figured his best defense was just saying "racing incident" so he didn't get blamed for Max's fuckup.

You could hear that idiot getting more frustrated and angry on the radio throughout the race, and it was obvious to me that he was about to do something really dangerous.  After he smashed into Lewis I would have black-flagged his ass and told him he was done for the day.

Edited July 22 by utee94

[wood 10,904]

Lewis certainly didn't move under braking. I can't see anything he did wrong. As a respected mod put it on Autosport, 'I’d put that in the category of attacker’s fault but no penalty required. Just a misjudgement. Overcooked it a bit. No harm done but to himself', which is what we often see from the stewards.

They say they don't look at the result of the action, but they clearly do, and given human nature it may be impossible not to. Had Lewis's car been broken or his race negatively impacted, there almost certainly would have been a penalty.

Edited July 22 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

The problem, of course, is that without reining Max in, he's going to keep doing it until there is harm. I just don't get it. 

[Dutch 4,447]

I mean, which of us hasn't played video games until 3am then made a proper Surly asshole out of ourselves at work later that day?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-rubbish-to-link-verstappens-f1-radio-anger-to-3am-sim-racing-antics/10637494/

Edited July 22 by Dutch

[VABuckeye 2,472]

2 hours ago, wood said:

Yeah that car really did not want to turn in at all. I wonder where RBR lost the plot on their development. I saw something the other day that said Newey left RBR because of a decision that had been taken re: the direction of the car. I wonder if that's true, and if so, what that decision was.

They spoke earlier about how the car had massive understeer this weekend which Max hates.

[wood 10,904]

3 minutes ago, Dutch said:

I mean, which of us hasn't played video games until 3am then made a proper Surly asshole out of ourselves at work later that day?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-bull-rubbish-to-link-verstappens-f1-radio-anger-to-3am-sim-racing-antics/10637494/

Yeah I like Crofty ok, more than most do, but his continual harping about that yesterday was just dumb. 

[wood 10,904]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

They spoke earlier about how the car had massive understeer this weekend which Max hates.

Yep. Exactly the opposite of what he wants, and what most of the elite drivers want, imho. The guys who can handle it like a 'pointy' , 'on the nose' car.

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

12 hours ago, wood said:

 

IMHO that's never been in doubt. 

That’s why I have always given Schumacher the edge over Hamilton in the “greatest ever” conversations. Schumacher winning championships with three different engines, and two different teams is what I look at as the differentiation. Schumacher also taking so many years to rebuild a failed Ferrari into a juggernaut decides it for me.

Their winning percentages are just about the same.

If Lewis does not win anymore races the rest of this season, and he certainly could win again, his winning percentage will be 29.2% and Schumacher’s winning percentage is 29.5. Currently, Lewis is at 30.1%.

It makes for fun conversation.

[Chewbacca 7,617]

21 hours ago, dieucla98 said:

Damn you, Lando... I was just starting to like you. 

Right?

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

11 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

That’s why I have always given Schumacher the edge over Hamilton in the “greatest ever” conversations. Schumacher winning championships with three different engines, and two different teams is what I look at as the differentiation. Schumacher also taking so many years to rebuild a failed Ferrari into a juggernaut decides it for me.

Their winning percentages are just about the same.

If Lewis does not win anymore races the rest of this season, and he certainly could win again, his winning percentage will be 29.2% and Schumacher’s winning percentage is 29.5. Currently, Lewis is at 30.1%.

It makes for fun conversation.

Schumi brought a three-wheeled Ferrari back to the pits in a torrential downpour at Spa, all the while blowing his gasket over DC. That tips the scales. 

[Chewbacca 7,617]

16 hours ago, Mach 1 said:

I watched with a family friend that’s a competitive mountain bike and BMX racer that has participated in podiums. He agreed the exchange with Hamilton was bad but the champagne spray on podium was particularly bad. For him to bypass Piastri and go straight for Hamilton - he considered it a major asshole move.

Yeah, the whole cool down room and podium was Lando and Oscar avoiding each other.  Was awkward as hell.

[wood 10,904]

26 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

That’s why I have always given Schumacher the edge over Hamilton in the “greatest ever” conversations. Schumacher winning championships with three different engines, and two different teams is what I look at as the differentiation. Schumacher also taking so many years to rebuild a failed Ferrari into a juggernaut decides it for me.

Their winning percentages are just about the same.

If Lewis does not win anymore races the rest of this season, and he certainly could win again, his winning percentage will be 29.2% and Schumacher’s winning percentage is 29.5. Currently, Lewis is at 30.1%.

It makes for fun conversation.

Yep. Schumi + Brawn + Rory Byrne + Todt.

[Goofyboy 3,002]

I saw a quote somewhere that Lando said the team should have never put him in that position. I agree with him.

[Chewbacca 7,617]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

I saw a quote somewhere that Lando said the team should have never put him in that position. I agree with him.

He was just being a cunt.  If they gave Oscar priority as the race leader, there's a decent to good chance that Lewis would have undercut Lando and then McLaren would have finished 1-3 if Lando can't get past Lewis (although he probably could have since the McLarens were the fastest cars on track). The team did the right thing to preserve the 1-2, but Lando just wanted to be a little bitch about it.

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

9 minutes ago, wood said:

Yep. Schumi + Brawn + Rory Byrne + Todt.

Amazing how all those egos worked so well together, especially looking now with how so many others can’t seem to check their egos at the garage doors.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

13 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

He was just being a cunt.  If they gave Oscar priority as the race leader, there's a decent to good chance that Lewis would have undercut Lando and then McLaren would have finished 1-3 if Lando can't get past Lewis (although he probably could have since the McLarens were the fastest cars on track). The team did the right thing to preserve the 1-2, but Lando just wanted to be a little bitch about it.

Go tell the most competitive person you know to lose on purpose. Now, go tell any one of the 20 best drivers on the planet to lose on purpose. It's not an easy thing to do for the person telling them to do it nor the drivers themselves. It's against every fiber of your being as a racer to slow down and let someone by, and that's just in the vacuum of discussion. Now take Lando's last three races into context, put yourself in his shoes, and then pull over for your teammate. Did you do it? You did? Well, so did he. It's not PR perfection, but he's a human being that is willing to put his team first in the end. He's been mostly gracious about it, and even understands he lost the race off the line. 

Contrast that with Max's antics and I just don't see how you can equivocate. Was it frustrating to watch real time? Yes. Was it also inevitable? Yes. History repeats itself quite often in F1. 

[Chewbacca 7,617]

1 minute ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Go tell the most competitive person you know to lose on purpose. Now, go tell any one of the 20 best drivers on the planet to lose on purpose. It's not an easy thing to do for the person telling them to do it nor the drivers themselves. It's against every fiber of your being as a racer to slow down and let someone by, and that's just in the vacuum of discussion. Now take Lando's last three races into context, put yourself in his shoes, and then pull over for your teammate. Did you do it? You did? Well, so did he. It's not PR perfection, but he's a human being that is willing to put his team first in the end. He's been mostly gracious about it, and even understands he lost the race off the line. 

Contrast that with Max's antics and I just don't see how you can equivocate. Was it frustrating to watch real time? Yes. Was it also inevitable? Yes. History repeats itself quite often in F1. 

I'm not sure it was as inevitable as you think it was.  I think the team should have prioritized Oscar from the get go, though.  Lando likely could have gotten around Lewis.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm not sure it was as inevitable as you think it was.  I think the team should have prioritized Oscar from the get go, though.  Lando likely could have gotten around Lewis.

The only thing that wasn't inevitable was Lando actually letting Oscar through. I mentioned three or four incidents earlier in the thread. Some move over, some don't. As much as I dislike Max, I don't really have a problem with him not moving over for Daniil. I understand it as a competitive person. He's a prick for a lot of other reasons, though. Lando is a clean racer that fights (mostly) fair, and is a pretty good guy off the track. He just needs to have better starts. 

[Chewbacca 7,617]

1 minute ago, ConferenceRoom said:

The only thing that wasn't inevitable was Lando actually letting Oscar through. I mentioned three or four incidents earlier in the thread. Some move over, some don't. As much as I dislike Max, I don't really have a problem with him not moving over for Daniil. I understand it as a competitive person. He's a prick for a lot of other reasons, though. Lando is a clean racer that fights (mostly) fair, and is a pretty good guy off the track. He just needs to have better starts. 

Lando is a prick because he tainted Oscar's first win so he could throw a tantrum.  Nobody was really celebrating that win.

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

Well, I don't really give a fuck about any of that so I guess we're at an impasse. Oscar operates on deadpan, so I don't really buy it, but whatever. I don't care who comes in first or who comes in second for Macca, the important thing is the team is back in action. 

[Chewbacca 7,617]

7 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Well, I don't really give a fuck about any of that so I guess we're at an impasse. Oscar operates on deadpan, so I don't really buy it, but whatever. I don't care who comes in first or who comes in second for Macca, the important thing is the team is back in action. 

And I don't give a shit about McLaren. I just think what Lando did was shitty and showed his true colors.

[wood 10,904]

7 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Go tell the most competitive person you know to lose on purpose. Now, go tell any one of the 20 best drivers on the planet to lose on purpose. It's not an easy thing to do for the person telling them to do it nor the drivers themselves. It's against every fiber of your being as a racer to slow down and let someone by, and that's just in the vacuum of discussion. Now take Lando's last three races into context, put yourself in his shoes, and then pull over for your teammate. Did you do it? You did? Well, so did he. It's not PR perfection, but he's a human being that is willing to put his team first in the end. He's been mostly gracious about it, and even understands he lost the race off the line. 

Yeah I used to be an 'A' level beach volleyball player 'back in the day' at Aussie's, and I got to play with and against some 'Open' level guys who played at times on the AVP tour, and two who later became regulars on the tour (one of whom is considered by some to be the greatest all-around beach volleyball player ever). Just like every story I've ever heard about the competitiveness of pro athletes, they hated losing far more than they liked winning. Nice guys off the court. Animals on the court. Completely different people. One time I played an Open tourney with the best guy in Texas at the time. He had played extensively on 2 or 3 different pro tours, including the AVP. He was and probably still is incredible, but at just 6' 1", he had a hard time hanging on for long on the AVP and always had to go through the Qualifiers. But in Texas, he and his regular partner rarely lost. I've never been in such a pressure cooker. He expected me to be able to do everything he could do, which nobody in Texas outside of Indoor VB Olympic Gold Medalist Riley Salmon  could do. Off the court later, he apologized. For these guys, the game is everything.

Played with some baseball players who went pro later. Raced against and even beat some pros on karts out at Driveway Austin, too. Same thing. /csbthatmightbesomewhatrelatedtothetopic

Edited July 23 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 5,969]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

And I don't give a shit about McLaren. I just think what Lando did was shitty and showed his true colors.

Yeah, but you've been on that train since he "pulled the strings" to get Danny Ric fired, so that's the way it is I guess. Once you've made your mind up about someone, that's it.

[Chewbacca 7,617]

Just now, ConferenceRoom said:

Yeah, but you've been on that train since he "pulled the strings" to get Danny Ric fired, so that's the way it is I guess. Once you've made your mind up about someone, that's it.

Before yesterday, I was coming around on him, believe it or not.

I never said I thought Lando got Danny fired.  Danny got Danny fired.

[Slacks 6,691]

11 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

Was Verstappen even investigated for the dive bomb that almost took out Lewis? How does he not get a penalty for that?

 

Wow. 

"This has been manipulated, man."

[Slacks 6,691]

4 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

That’s why I have always given Schumacher the edge over Hamilton in the “greatest ever” conversations. Schumacher winning championships with three different engines, and two different teams is what I look at as the differentiation. Schumacher also taking so many years to rebuild a failed Ferrari into a juggernaut decides it for me.

Their winning percentages are just about the same.

If Lewis does not win anymore races the rest of this season, and he certainly could win again, his winning percentage will be 29.2% and Schumacher’s winning percentage is 29.5. Currently, Lewis is at 30.1%.

It makes for fun conversation.

Most wins all time. Most podiums all time. Most Championships (tied at 7* - 8 Championships if race control doesn't botch Abu Dhabi 2021... unless you think LH would have crashed behind the SC.)

But Schumacher had 3 engine builders, so edge.

What if LH drives Ferrari to his 8th? That will only be 2 engine builders.

 

 

Michael Schumacher has more USGP at Indy wins...  thus, he gets the nod.

 

[Goofyboy 3,002]

If LH wins one for Ferrari and saves them from themselves - he takes the W.

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

21 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Most wins all time. Most podiums all time. Most Championships (tied at 7* - 8 Championships if race control doesn't botch Abu Dhabi 2021... unless you think LH would have crashed behind the SC.)

But Schumacher had 3 engine builders, so edge.

What if LH drives Ferrari to his 8th? That will only be 2 engine builders.

 

 

Michael Schumacher has more USGP at Indy wins...  thus, he gets the nod.

 

13 more victories for Hamilton in 37 more races.

I love diving into stats. It's what I do when I work the Pitt games and the if I work Steelers games. 

A few numbers I found interesting:

Schumacher had 71 retirements to Hamilton's 32, and that again is in 37 more races for Hamilton. In Schumacher's seven title years he had 15 DNFs and in Hamilton's seven title years he had six, incredibly just one in his run of four titles after Nico won his title.

In Schumacher's first three seasons at Ferrari he had 13 DNfs in 48 races and in his final three seasons after the three year retirement, with Mercedes, he had 15 DNFs in 48 races as he was (as my German cousins insist 😉) building Mercedes into a team from which that Hamilton would benefit.

Schumacher won 40 races from pole, Hamilton has won 61 from pole. Schumacher had 22 Hat Tricks (pole, fastest lap & win) to Hamilton's 19.

Hamilton has the edge, 6:5, in Grand Slams (pole, fastest lap, winner, every lap led).

Jimmy Clark did that eight times. Max has done it five times. Stewart, Mansell, Senna & Vettel each have four.

Most wins in a season; Schumacher 13 of 18 races in 2004 to Hamilton's four times winning 11 races in 16, 21, 21 & 19 races. The 16 races was 2020 so it is pretty safe to say Hamilton would have won a couple to a few more if it was a full season.

In 2004 Schumacher had seven consecutive wins. That was following a retirement in the season's fifth race (Monaco) which are after he won the season's first four races. I think he was third, or fourth, when an accident happened and the leaders went to pit and he stayed out and then was hit from behind by Juan Pablo Montoya with about 30 laps, or so, to go. Hamilton's top streak is five straight wins in 2014 followed by a 2nd and then a win to end the season. 

 

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

43 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

If LH wins one for Ferrari and saves them from themselves - he takes the W.

Well, Schumacher won 72 while at Ferrari, so........

Edited July 23 by PittsburghTiger

[PittsburghTiger 6,067]

6 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Well, Schumacher won 72 while at Ferrari, so........

I'll also add that in 1996, Schumacher's first season at Ferrari he won three races. In the previous five seasons Ferrari had won two races. 

Hamilton is undoubtedly a great driver. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying I put Schumacher above him in my rankings. 

I have Fangio as my number 1 because he just won. I also have Senna and Clark in my top-five along with Schumacher and Hamilton. 

There are a lot of arguments that may be made for other drivers, Max, Vettel, Lauda, Prost, Stewart, Moss, Ascari, and the list can go on.

It's just fun conversation.