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Formula 1 2024

Anton Chigurh

By Anton Chigurh
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wood

wood 10,904

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38 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

It's just fun conversation.

Good stuff, and yeah, I see the obsession with ranking everything all the time (not here) and I just smh. IMHO among the truly elite drivers of all time, we're just splitting hairs. They all have different styles, strengths and weaknesses, drove different cars for teams of varying quality, against different competition, etc, and in the end, there is little to nothing between 'em. Same with other sports imho. I have a 'goat tier', and leave it at that.

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VABuckeye

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6 hours ago, wood said:

Yeah I used to be an 'A' level beach volleyball player 'back in the day' at Aussie's, and I got to play with and against some 'Open' level guys who played at times on the AVP tour, and two who later became regulars on the tour (one of whom is considered by some to be the greatest all-around beach volleyball player ever). Just like every story I've ever heard about the competitiveness of pro athletes, they hated losing far more than they liked winning. Nice guys off the court. Animals on the court. Completely different people. One time I played an Open tourney with the best guy in Texas at the time. He had played extensively on 2 or 3 different pro tours, including the AVP. He was and probably still is incredible, but at just 6' 1", he had a hard time hanging on for long on the AVP and always had to go through the Qualifiers. But in Texas, he and his regular partner rarely lost. I've never been in such a pressure cooker. He expected me to be able to do everything he could do, which nobody in Texas outside of Indoor VB Olympian Riley Salmon  could do. Off the court later, he apologized. For these guys, the game is everything.

Played with some baseball players who went pro later. Raced against and even beat some pros on karts out at Driveway Austin, too. Same thing. /csbthatmightbesomewhatrelatedtothetopic

A guy named Karch, eh?

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PittsburghTiger

PittsburghTiger 6,067

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14 minutes ago, wood said:

Good stuff, and yeah, I see the obsession with ranking everything all the time (not here) and I just smh. IMHO among the truly elite drivers of all time, we're just splitting hairs. They all have different styles, strengths and weaknesses, drove different cars for teams of varying quality, against different competition, etc, and in the end, there is little to nothing between 'em. Same with other sports imho. I have a 'goat tier', and leave it at that.

I think Senna is the one who kind of gets the short end of the stick in a lot of the conversations, due to recency bias.

His rivalry with Prost while they were at McLaren was EPIC. It was crazy to see both teammates dominate the way they did. Especially now when we see a team’s #1 driver be so far ahead of his teammate.

In the end the death of Senna, at 34-years old, was a huge blow to what could have been in Formula 1, and it also helped bring about the ascension of Schumacher and his run.

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wood

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25 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

A guy named Karch, eh?

Yeah Karch is the goat imho, and it's not close. THat's one sport where there's a clear goat imho. And I've been lucky enough to chat with him. I described that convo in one of the vball threads. I'll never forget it.  But I was never lucky enough to play with him. I played with & against Phil Dalhausser a little at Aussie's, the week before he & Nick Lucena won their first AVP tourney right here at Auditorium Shores, That's who I was referring to as being considered by some to be the goat. That tournament was where Karch started up a conversation with me, much to my surprise.

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wood

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32 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I think Senna is the one who kind of gets the short end of the stick in a lot of the conversations, due to recency bias.

His rivalry with Prost while they were at McLaren was EPIC. It was crazy to see both teammates dominate the way they did. Especially now when we see a team’s #1 driver be so far ahead of his teammate.

In the end the death of Senna, at 34-years old, was a huge blow to what could have been in Formula 1, and it also helped bring about the ascension of Schumacher and his run.

Clark even moreso imho, due to how long ago it was and how short his career was. By all accounts I've heard from the guys who raced against him or saw him drive, he was an absolute alien.

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PittsburghTiger

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2 minutes ago, wood said:

Clark even moreso imho, due to how long away it was and how short his career was. By al accounts I've heard from the guys raced against him or saw him drive, he was an alien.

Agreed.

I didn’t want to come across as too wonky/nerdy/preachy with a history lesson that most people don’t want.

The father of one of my Pitt roomies saw Clark race in person. Was his favorite driver, in all forms, from that moment on. 

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kevwun

kevwun 15,255

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2 hours ago, wood said:

AMuS says Krack is headed there too.

I would think Stroll Sr isn't too broken up about it.  Their cars have been on a downward performance trend for close to a year.

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wood

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9 minutes ago, kevwun said:

I would think Stroll Sr isn't too broken up about it.  Their cars have been on a downward performance trend for close to a year.

Yep. I'll wait and see who replaces him before I get depressed (Otmar, Guenther).

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Slacks

Slacks 6,691

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17 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I'll also add that in 1996, Schumacher's first season at Ferrari he won three races. In the previous five seasons Ferrari had won two races. 

Hamilton is undoubtedly a great driver. I'm not saying he isn't. I'm just saying I put Schumacher above him in my rankings. 

I have Fangio as my number 1 because he just won. I also have Senna and Clark in my top-five along with Schumacher and Hamilton. 

There are a lot of arguments that may be made for other drivers, Max, Vettel, Lauda, Prost, Stewart, Moss, Ascari, and the list can go on.

It's just fun conversation.

Hamilton was one point away from a DC in year one....

 

It is just fun conversation. Michael Schumacher really is THE greatest F1 Champion. It's obvious the Merc ride was a big difference maker, seeing how Valtteri Bottas has gone from top 2-5 WDC to not even competitive on a weekly basis.

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wood

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13 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Hamilton was one point away from a DC in year one....

 

It is just fun conversation. Michael Schumacher really is THE greatest F1 Champion. It's obvious the Merc ride was a big difference maker, seeing how Valtteri Bottas has gone from top 2-5 WDC to not even competitive on a weekly basis.

It was huge, just like the car was for Vettel, Alonso, Schumi, Senna, and so on. Alonso has pointed out that if he weren't in a Renault or Ferrari in 2005-6, he wasn't winning the championship, and nobody's winning a WDC in a slower car unless the quickest team fucks up badly. If Michael doesn't retire when he does, then Lewis is still a 1xWDC and those 7 Merc WDCs get shared between Schumi and Nico, or whomever else might have been in one of those two seats.

The WDC only matters to drivers and us fans. The teams like for their guy to win it, but it's just icing on the cake. They won't risk losing even one position in the WCC to get their driver a WDC.

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wood

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11 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Is McLaren still mathematically in the WCC this year?

I'd say so. They're only down 51 from RBR and only up 16 over Ferrari. That's why they did everything they could to ensure Lewis didn't pass Lando for P2.

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wood

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8 minutes ago, Slacks said:

Well... not everything. Lol.

What do you mean? They got P1 & P2, and that was made more certain by letting Lando undercut Piastri. The only thing that put it in doubt was Lando's reticence to play fair. They were still gonna get the same points haul even if Lando didn't let Piastri by, but in the end he did the right thing and they maximized points, beating Lewis by 12s. The undercut ensured the 1-2.

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Slacks

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1 minute ago, wood said:

What do you mean? They got P1 & P2, and that was made more certain by letting Lando undercut Piastri. The only thing that put it in doubt was Lando's reticence to play fair. They were still gonna get the same points haul even if Lando didn't let Piastri by, but in the end he did the right thing and they maximized points, beating Lewis by 12s. The undercut ensured the 1-2.

easy, killa... there was an lol because the best way to keep Lando from getting passed for P2 is keeping him at P1.... so not everything. 

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wood

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13 minutes ago, Slacks said:

easy, killa... there was an lol because the best way to keep Lando from getting passed for P2 is keeping him at P1.... so not everything. 

Sure, in the short term, but in the long term the team needs the drivers to play fair when one helps the other out - so they'll keep doing it and maximize WCC points. And if Lando wants to challenge for the WDC, he needs to not piss off Piastri. He'll need his help.

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Brew

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50 minutes ago, wood said:

Sure, in the short term, but in the long term the team needs the drivers to play fair when one helps the other out - so they'll keep doing it and maximize WCC points. And if Lando wants to challenge for the WDC, he needs to not piss off Piastri. He'll need his help.

You know what else could help him in the WDC, those 7 points. I’m really curious what the discussion looks like if the 1/2 for the other teams were in the same position. Also, if the last few weeks went the way they probably should have for Lando, is the situation different with the WDC closer than it currently is?

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wood

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18 minutes ago, Brew said:

You know what else could help him in the WDC, those 7 points. I’m really curious what the discussion looks like if the 1/2 for the other teams were in the same position. 

Sure, but in the long term, they need the cooperation and fair play of their drivers to ensure maximizing points throughout the rest of the season, and Lando only has an outside WDC shot at best imho. There would have been nothing remotely right or fair about letting Lando stay in the lead, taking away Piastri's well-deserved first win. And doing so probably would have put a swift end to any thoughts of Piastri helping Lando out going forward. The result for Lando over the rest of the season then would probably be a net loss vs playing fair. It would have been a hollow victory anyway, having been taken away from Lando's more deserving teammate and gifted to him. I'm a big Lando fan, but Piastri drove the better weekend of the two and earned the win. 

I love Lando but if he wants to be a contender he needs the results when the car is capable of delivering. He messed up the start and did not look particularly quicker before the last stop. And the only reason he looked quicker in the last stint was because Piastri was being told unambiguously to manage his tyres and not to worry because Lando would give the place back.  Piastri wasn't pushing at all.

Oscar fully deserved his first win. You're basically saying the team should put the WDC ahead of the WCC, and that's just not going to happen. That's not F1. It's a Constructor sport.

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Burt Macklin

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1 hour ago, Goofyboy said:

Is McLaren still mathematically in the WCC this year?

They're the favorite to win it. They're averaging beating Red Bull by over 10 points per race since their upgrades in Miami. There are 12 races left and they're only 51 points behind. Unless RBR has a huge upgrade coming (they don't) or Checo/his replacement make a massive jump in from, McLaren is the clear favorite. 

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ConferenceRoom

ConferenceRoom 5,969

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1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

They're the favorite to win it. They're averaging beating Red Bull by over 10 points per race since their upgrades in Miami. There are 12 races left and they're only 51 points behind. Unless RBR has a huge upgrade coming (they don't) or Checo/his replacement make a massive jump in from, McLaren is the clear favorite. 

Joe Biden Shut Up GIF by Election 2020
 

Fuckin’ Ferrari fans, I swear. 

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Slacks

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34 minutes ago, faps said:

With all the understeer Max was complaining about with the update, maybe they made the car easier for Checo to drive to help him pick up some points. /s

"Checo is faster than you."

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Anton Chigurh

Anton Chigurh 3,317

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Reading back through the thread I was about to say y'all straight disappearing Fangio.

He was obviously very good, but my issue with him is that he switched teams every year to be in the fastest car, and even did it even mid-season one year.
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G650

G650 13,195

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22 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:


He was obviously very good, but my issue with him is that he switched teams every year to be in the fastest car, and even did it even mid-season one year.

Don't hate the player, hate the game!

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NoName

NoName 16,229

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3 hours ago, Brew said:

You know what else could help him in the WDC, those 7 points. I’m really curious what the discussion looks like if the 1/2 for the other teams were in the same position. Also, if the last few weeks went the way they probably should have for Lando, is the situation different with the WDC closer than it currently is?

He's out of the WDC man. Down 67 points and we aren't at the break. Hes down almost as much as George is to Lando.

Come on. So if he gets the plus 7 then he's down 60 points? Which would still have to be one of if not the largest single season comebacks in f1 history.

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dieucla98

dieucla98 2,767

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31 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Alpine running a special color scheme this weekend at Spa. Very hard to get used to. It’s not too shabby but, much too different.

I thought it was Ferrari running a special livery at first. 

I do like it, though. Will look good on the last row.

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deft

deft 6,747

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I thought it was Ferrari running a special livery at first. 
I do like it, though. Will look good on the last row.

Yeah I’m sure all of the coverage alpine doesn’t get during the race will really show off the change of livery. Only exception to that is Ocon binning into the wall or Gasley in which case you wouldn’t be able to tell what the fuck the paint looked like anyways
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