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Formula 1 2024


Anton Chigurh

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31 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

And if Max had kept 1/16" of his tire on the white line, I'd 100% agree with you. Keep your dive bombing within track limits, even if you're not following a "racing line", and I'm usually perfectly fine with aggressive moves. But he didn't. Once you leave the track by your own "error" (or desperate attempt to defend), it should be fair game to keep my pace right around you.

 

Max dive bombed Lando to pass him on Turn 1 at the start of the race almost identically--except he stayed on the track. Lando complained, but Zak Brown basically told the broadcast team, "Yeah, he dive-bombed us, but he stayed on the track...what are ya gonna do?"

One guy left the track, passed the other driver, didn't give the spot back and then complained about it.

It's a penalty no matter who the driver is.

Was a team failure to not have him give the spot back. Clearly they and Lando didn't think he would be able to pass again or they would have done it, which is comical. Landos car is very clearly much faster than Max in the RBR considering he got up by 4.1 seconds or whatever after he passed him in the last like 5 laps.

Lando is a lot of things but he's already blown the WDC to a guy who genuinely would have been better off with Yuki or Danny in the second RBR seat this year, Checo is an absolute non factor and easily the worst driver of the top 3 teams in the WCC. If you add in Mercedes he's the 8th of those 8 drivers in quality. Just dreadful. 

Edited by NoName
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One guy left the track, passed the other driver, didn't give the spot back and then complained about it.
It's a penalty no matter who the driver is.
Was a team failure to not have him give the spot back. Clearly they and Lando didn't think he would be able to pass again or they would have done it, which is comical. Landos car is very clearly much faster than Max in the RBR considering he got up by 4.1 seconds or whatever after he passed him in the last like 5 laps.
Lando is a lot of things but he's already blown the WDC to a guy who genuinely would have been better off with Yuki or Danny in the second RBR seat this year, Checo is an absolute non factor and easily the worst driver of the top 3 teams in the WCC. If you add in Mercedes he's the 8th of those 8 drivers in quality. Just dreadful. 

BOTH guys left the track. Lando won position and should have retained it based on Max failing to defend and forcing Lando off
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32 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

You don't get to pass someone off track.  Full stop.  

I get why they feel the need to draw that line in the sand there. BUT, you shouldn't be rewarded for driving yourself and your competitor off the track, if not purposely, then at least haphazardly. What's your suggestion? 

I suppose if Max had done it in a couple more turns, he eventually would have gotten tagged for reckless driving. Doesn't seem like much of a deterrent though. It's hard enough to pass in this sport...essentially letting people leave the track to defend seems like the wrong move.

15 minutes ago, NoName said:

One guy left the track, passed the other driver, didn't give the spot back and then complained about it.

It's a penalty no matter who the driver is.

Well, they both left the track. But I understand your point.

Edited by aggie08
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I honestly think if he had immediately given the place back, he would have had a legitimate chance of Max getting a penalty for forcing him off track.  And, as others have said, he would likely have passed him again anyway.  (And yes, I'm a Red Bull fan.)

Edited by morehornsepower
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Replace the paved runoff with gravel. Some guys cars might get fucked up going off, but we wouldn't have to rely on the stewards to make the right call. Plus, the drivers might take to the runoff less and make the pass happen on track. idk
 

Can’t if you want to keep MotoGP.
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The answer to all of this, as it is with most things in F1, is to go retro in track construction. If there's gravel there instead of pavement, neither one of them will go off, and if they do, their races are impacted negatively at best.

And the best summary of that incident I've seen, is this one, from a Motorsport Mayhem poster:

Quote

Max knows how to play the game, he let off the brakes just enough to be ahead at the apex which made the corner his no matter what happens at the exit. He wasn't driving the track, he was driving the rule book.

 

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After thinking about it, they should have awarded Max a 5 second penalty for forcing another driver off track and a 10 second penalty to Lando for overtaking off track. that way they send a message that you can’t let off the brakes to get to the apex first with not chance to actually make the corner.  They gave George and someone else a similar penalty for forcing another driver off track, and what Max did should be a penalty.
 

The only reason Max had the apex is because he let off the brakes, meaning he had no chance of making the corner. If you do that and force a driver off track, it should be a penalty every time. 

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36 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Once again, lava runoffs prove to be the only clear answer.

Kinda GIF

 

I'm a pretty big Max supporter, but this has nothing to do with him or McLaren. (Other than Max being the most frequent offender.) Jamming it into corners to get the apex at the expense of being able to keep your race car or your competitor's race car on the racetrack is some bullshit that should carry some kind of negative consequence. Keep it on track, and you can basically be as aggressive as you want.

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17 hours ago, aggie08 said:

And the argument is that the rule book currently sucks if it rewards you for purposely carrying too much speed to stay on the track just to be ahead at the apex.

100%. Older drivers like Alonso railed against it for years, but eventually they realized that their complaints were falling on deaf ears and said "If other people are going to do it to me and get away with it, then I might as well join the party and start doing everything they're going to let people get away with". Max came into F1 after that kind of move had already become accepted. I don't blame the drivers. I blame the FIA and the idiotic stewarding system for lack of clarity and consistency, letting them get away with all kinds of things. And I blame track runoff design. If the FIA would crack down on this stuff and some other kinds of moves, they would stop and driving stndards would improve, but they don't. Of course, like I said earlier, if there were gravel right on the edge of that turn, 99.9% chance we're not even having this discussion. 

Edited by wood
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2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

After thinking about it, they should have awarded Max a 5 second penalty for forcing another driver off track and a 10 second penalty to Lando for overtaking off track. that way they send a message that you can’t let off the brakes to get to the apex first with not chance to actually make the corner.  They gave George and someone else a similar penalty for forcing another driver off track, and what Max did should be a penalty.

Great point. Someone on Sky brought it up on Friday I think, talking about the reticence of the stewards to apply penalties to both drivers rather than just one, even when both drivers were wrong. They just go after whomever was predominantly at fault. It's stupid, but I pretty much gave up on F1 being a serious sport in this regard a long time ago.

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14 hours ago, Goofyboy said:


BOTH guys left the track. Lando won position and should have retained it based on Max failing to defend and forcing Lando off

This isn't the same! And the guy way off the track passed the other guy. It's literally textbook and if this was Lando passing Oscar or Sainz people would very clearly say it's a penalty on him.

This isn't rocket science. Leaving the track to gain an advantage is a clear penalty.

If you want to argue it should be a penalty on Max then argue that. But acting like this isn't a penalty in a non lap 1 situation is insane.

IMG_7859.thumb.jpeg.234f9ddc1a00c7b29d11b14769d878c4.jpeg

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12 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

After thinking about it, they should have awarded Max a 5 second penalty for forcing another driver off track and a 10 second penalty to Lando for overtaking off track. that way they send a message that you can’t let off the brakes to get to the apex first with not chance to actually make the corner.  They gave George and someone else a similar penalty for forcing another driver off track, and what Max did should be a penalty.

Absolutely totally and completely agree.

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13 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yes it should be penalty on both.  And if it's a second offense for a driver in the same race, the penalties should start doubling.

The thing that pisses me off is two penalties correct both actions and let drivers know what Max did will be penalized in the future so you don’t have to pass off track while he’s doing his Max bullshit. Instead they only penalize Lando so Max will keep running people off track and create bad racing and other drivers will feel the need to pass off track so Max can’t keep shoving them off at every turn and sty behind him. 
 

They just compounded the problem instead of correcting both actions. The racing standards in F1 are shit and  a big part of it is because they’ve been allowing (and legalizing) Max’s antics for years. 

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22 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Isn't forcing someone else off track to gain an advantage also a clear penalty?

If Lando had gotten back behind him like anyone with a brain would have told him to do I bet max would have gotten the penalty and Lando would have either passed him or gotten the third podium spot after Max got a 5 sec penalty.

Instead he passed him while way off track and didn't do that..dumb dumb dumb.

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Martin Brundel brought up a good point - Lando was ahead of Max after the previous corner. So, that puts Max coming from behind to late break and miss the corner (he also went off) and force Lando off. Lando retained his position from the previous corner.

Regardless of all of this - we can all agree we need the lava pits or gravel around the track.

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55 minutes ago, Mittens said:

Isn't forcing someone else off track to gain an advantage also a clear penalty?

It should be. I don’t see how what Max did was any different than what George did to Bottas and got penalized for. 

31 minutes ago, NoName said:

If Lando had gotten back behind him like anyone with a brain would have told him to do I bet max would have gotten the penalty and Lando would have either passed him or gotten the third podium spot after Max got a 5 sec penalty.

Instead he passed him while way off track and didn't do that..dumb dumb dumb.

I don’t agree with this because they should’ve penalized Max anyways for that conduct. For whatever reason the stewards decided Max didn’t have to give space. I think technically they would say it’s because Max was ahead at the apex, but again that’s bullshit because he was only ahead at the apex because he let off the brakes and could never make the corner. That should be a penalty every time if the inside driver can’t make the corner and shoves the other driver off track. 

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