Formula 1 2024

[Chewbacca 7,764]

16 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I'd rather see a competitive Haas-->Andretti team, than incrementally adding in Andretti and Haas remaining a dumpster fire.  When it comes to F1, I'm always going to be a quality over quantity guy.  

Agreed.  I'd rather have 6 very competitive teams vs having backmarkers like Haas on the grid.

[wood 11,225]

On 1/10/2024 at 11:44 AM, utee94 said:

I'd rather see a competitive Haas-->Andretti team, than incrementally adding in Andretti and Haas remaining a dumpster fire.  When it comes to F1, I'm always going to be a quality over quantity guy.  

What I'd really like to see is Haas sell to someone that actually GAF and Andretti get in as the 11th team. And then see a solid 12th team allowed in as well. There's no reason for it to be an 'either/or' proposition. F1 should have quality and a full grid. The current 10 teams fall way short of that. Let's be honest, Haas, Williams, AT, Sauber, and even Alpine -half the grid - are really just along for the ride. Currently we have an undersized grid and too many teams who are just happy to be there. Neither quantity overall, or quality in the lower half of the grid.

Edited January 11 by wood

[wood 11,225]

So I guess now Simone Resta gets to return to Ferrari?

Edited January 11 by wood

[utee94 15,797]

31 minutes ago, wood said:

What I'd really like to see is Haas sell to someone that actually GAF and Andretti get in as the 11th team. And then see a solid 12th team allowed in as well. There's no reason for it to be an 'either/or' proposition. F1 should have quality and a full grid. The current 10 teams fall way short of that. Let's be honest, Haas, Williams, AT, Sauber, and even Alpine -half the grid - are really just along for the ride. Currently we have an undersized grid and too many teams who are just happy to be there. Neither quantity or quality (in the lower half of the grid).

I mean, sure, and you might as well go ahead and also wish for a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or for Austin power to remain on throughout the next 7 days.

But if Andretti buying Haas is the only way or even the most expedient way they get onto the grid then I'm all for it.

 

 

[wood 11,225]

46 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I mean, sure, and you might as well go ahead and also wish for a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or for Austin power to remain on throughout the next 7 days.

But if Andretti buying Haas is the only way or even the most expedient way they get onto the grid then I'm all for it.

I think the part that's more wishful thinking there (from both of us) is Haas selling right now. To anyone. But if he's gonna sell, he should probably do it now while the value is still so high for his smoke and mirrors 'built in Italy' team. Marketing of Haas tools to a global market seems to be the only reason the team is on the grid. That and F1 needed a team to augment a depleted grid years ago and gave them special conditions of entry just to get back to 11 teams. Funny thing is that now, somehow, 10 teams are more than enough!

I really think Andretti will get in as the 11th team, but F1 really needs some of those current bottom 5 teams to step up their games. Currently there's one team out front, followed by 4 midfield teams. Teams 6-10 are all backmarkers. That's pathetic.

I think Andretti may be being used as a bargaining chip for the new Concorde Agreement. I could see FOM agreeing to let Andretti in as a means to get the FIA to sign off on an 11 or 12  or 'X' team grid cap and/or a much higher dilution fee going forward. On the FIA's side, I could see them saying that's the only way they'd ever sign off on it.

From the outside looking in, this all just seems like a big negotiation of terms to me.

Edited January 10 by wood

[Dutch 4,465]

Wonder if he fook smashed Gene’s door on his way out?

[wood 11,225]

Andretti /GM is the logical answer to confused Haas existence: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/andretti-gm-is-logical-answer-to-confused-haas-existence/

Quote

Was Guenther Steiner the difference between a Haas Formula 1 team deserving a place on the grid or not? No, that would be a stretch. But his departure signals a degree of meandering that raises questions over whether Gene Haas’s team is what F1 has in mind for a so-called franchise model that is currently blocking a potential Andretti General Motors works team.

He has left because he believes the team needs more investment from its owner to become more competitive again, and Gene Haas disagrees. This season will already start to tell us who is right and who is wrong. But Steiner’s not the only one who thinks Haas F1 has been treading water. And if this is what Gene Haas wants his F1 team to be, or is willing to let it be, how much value is that team to F1? And does it start to change the argument about whether or not another team, mainly the Andretti/General Motors bid, should be on the grid instead?

\

It's about time one of these idiot journos said it out loud ...
 

Edited January 11 by wood

[Burt Macklin 19,019]

16 hours ago, wood said:

Andretti /GM is the logical answer to confused Haas existence: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/andretti-gm-is-logical-answer-to-confused-haas-existence/

\

It's about time one of these idiot journos said it out loud ...
 

obviously swapping Haas for Andretti or even anyone who will try to build a competitive car will be a big improvement, but Haas has reportedly gotten multiple competitive offers and refused to sell, so while it would be great, there’s not much that can be done about it. 

If they’re going to turn this thing into a closed franchise model and have a spending cap, they need to implement a spending floor. Otherwise, you’ll get a Haas investing minimal money while netting profit off the backs of other teams every year.
 

Claiming Andretti will dilute payouts while letting Haas do nothing for the sport and just freeload makes no sense. 

[wood 11,225]

2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

obviously swapping Haas for Andretti or even anyone who will try to build a competitive car will be a big improvement, but Haas has reportedly gotten multiple competitive offers and refused to sell, so while it would be great, there’s not much that can be done about it. 

If they’re going to turn this thing into a closed franchise model and have a spending cap, they need to implement a spending floor. Otherwise, you’ll get a Haas investing minimal money while netting profit off the backs of other teams every year.
 

Claiming Andretti will dilute payouts while letting Haas do nothing for the sport and just freeload makes no sense. 

Yep, and the only reason adding teams will dilute payouts is because they're dividing the pot by 10 when it's should be divided by 12  or 13 in the first place. If they were doing it right - paying prizes based on a full grid - adding a team wouldn't change the payouts.

And back when they went to the dilution fee I and others said it was clear that a franchise system was what they wanted ... so why didn't they do that? Instead they instituted the $200M dilution fee thinking that would be enough to deter new entrants. Now they're finding out it's not enough and don't want to play be the very rule they requested to be added to the CA. 

And everyone out there seems to assume that FOM doesn't want Andretti, but if you're FOM, why you'd have to be crazy not to want them and bring them onboard. It doesn't cost FOM anything and has huge upside.

Edited January 11 by wood

[kevwun 15,757]

Haas has had shading dealings with Russia after the embargoes and I wonder if he's being made to sell the team?  Solves 2 problems in one shot.

[Chewbacca 7,764]

Yep, and the only reason adding teams will dilute payouts is because they're dividing the pot by 10 when it's should be divided by 12  or 13 in the first place. If they were doing it right - paying prizes based on a full grid - adding a team wouldn't change the payouts.
And back when they went to the dilution fee I and others said it was clear that a franchise system was what they wanted ... so why didn't they do that? Instead they instituted the $200M dilution fee thinking that would be enough to deter new entrants. Now they're finding out it's not enough and don't want to play be the very rule they requested to be added to the CA. 
And everyone out there seems to assume that FOM doesn't want Andretti, but if you're FOM, why you'd have to be crazy not to want them and bring them onboard. It doesn't cost FOM anything and has huge upside.

FOM has to want Andretti and Cadillac. Greg Maffei may be an asshole, but he loves money.

[Guest]

I can't be the only one that wasn't all starry-eyed at Steiner, right?

He seems like a decent guy and likable enough, but the online love for him reminded me of how all the people in your freshman college course thinks the professor that cusses during a lecture is so cool and funny. 

Don't know if it was him or the situation with HAAS/spending, but the team always performed terribly and never showed signs of improvement or even really trying. 

[PittsburghTiger 6,174]

19 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I can't be the only one that wasn't all starry-eyed at Steiner, right?

He seems like a decent guy and likable enough, but the online love for him reminded me of how all the people in your freshman college course thinks the professor that cusses during a lecture is so cool and funny. 

Don't know if it was him or the situation with HAAS/spending, but the team always performed terribly and never showed signs of improvement or even really trying. 

Well said. I have a friend who is friends with him, kids/grandkids in school in North Carolina.

He said he’s a good guy but, that doesn’t mean anything towards running a successful F1 team. 

[utee94 15,797]

I find him likeable but he's kind of a clown.

Still, I'm not confident he was ever given proper resources and backing to do anything other than be UNsuccessful at Haas.  Maybe some if it is his fault, but it's tough to fault the architect of a crumbling home, when the homeowner has forced him to build it on top of an active fault line.

[dieucla98 2,942]

Gunther is awesome, he's just made for the camera. I would love it if Sky Sports picked him up for the broadcast team.

[Burt Macklin 19,019]

1 hour ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I can't be the only one that wasn't all starry-eyed at Steiner, right?

He seems like a decent guy and likable enough, but the online love for him reminded me of how all the people in your freshman college course thinks the professor that cusses during a lecture is so cool and funny. 

Don't know if it was him or the situation with HAAS/spending, but the team always performed terribly and never showed signs of improvement or even really trying. 

I don’t think there’s many people out there who actually think he’s a good TP. People just like him as a personality.
 

It’s impossible to know if Guenther was good at his role or not. Haas is massively underfunded and understaffed. They could only bring updates once per year. No TP could have success there without convincing Haas to majorly increase the budget, which won’t happen. Gene Haas promoted someone from within so he could keep running the team the way he wants, which is putting as little of his money as possible into it and being a total drag on the sport. 

 

 

Edited January 12 by Burt Macklin

[wood 11,225]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

I can't be the only one that wasn't all starry-eyed at Steiner, right?

He seems like a decent guy and likable enough, but the online love for him reminded me of how all the people in your freshman college course thinks the professor that cusses during a lecture is so cool and funny. 

Don't know if it was him or the situation with HAAS/spending, but the team always performed terribly and never showed signs of improvement or even really trying. 

No, you weren't the only one. I've never been the biggest fan of Guenther, but I also don't believe for a second the narrative some are pushing -  that the team is actually well-funded and he's the reason this team hasn't been able to develop cars the vast majority of the time over its existence. If that were true, then Gene would have to be a fucking idiotl for not firing him sooner rather than just sitting by while Guenther throws piles of his money on the fire. Also, if lack of development and poor development are the issues, then why is Haas promoting the chief egghead who was actually responsible for the design and development of the turd for which the TP was let go??

Something smells weird. It always has with that team, but now it smells even weirder.  And now with Resta returning to Ferrari, it appears that Ferrari relationship is over as well. IMHO he's either selling or he's continuing in the same vein of investing as little money as is humanly possible, and is keeping the people who are ok with that and are just happy to be there.

Edited January 12 by wood

[wood 11,225]

2 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I don’t think there’s many people out there who actually think he’s a good TP. People just like him as a personality.
 

It’s impossible to know if Guenther was good at his role or not. Haas is massively underfunded and understaffed. They could only bring updates once per year. No TP could have success there without convincing Haas to majorly increase the budget, which won’t happen. Gene Haas promoted someone from within so he could keep running the team the way he wants, which is putting as little of his money as possible into it and being a total drag on the sport. 

Yep. He's Gene's escape goat! (Maybe literally, at this point)

[wood 11,225]

Interesting question I saw today re: Haas. I already have my answer, but I'm curious what y'all think:

Quote

I wonder who here, if they owned a back marker Formula 1 team that wasn't breaking the bank - in fact, was promoting the family biz -  would say "you know what, we suck.   I don't have the ability to challenge for a F1 title, and even though I'll never be able to get back in again, I'm going to sell. Who needs the fun and prestige of owning a near self-sustaining F1 team?"

Edited January 16 by wood

[Chewbacca 7,764]

Interesting question I saw today re: Haas. I already have mny answer, but I'm curious what y'all think:

I wonder who here, if they owned a back marker Formula 1 team that wasn't breaking the bank - in fact, was promoting the family biz -  would say "you know what, we suck.   I don't have the ability to challenge for a F1 title, and even though I'll never be able to get back in again, I'm going to sell. Who needs the fun and prestige of owning a near self-sustaining F1 team?"

Does Gene even appreciate the fun of owning an F1 team? He's never there.

[NoName 16,349]

On 1/10/2024 at 1:05 PM, wood said:

What I'd really like to see is Haas sell to someone that actually GAF and Andretti get in as the 11th team. And then see a solid 12th team allowed in as well. There's no reason for it to be an 'either/or' proposition. F1 should have quality and a full grid. The current 10 teams fall way short of that. Let's be honest, Haas, Williams, AT, Sauber, and even Alpine -half the grid - are really just along for the ride. Currently we have an undersized grid and too many teams who are just happy to be there. Neither quantity overall, or quality in the lower half of the grid.

Alpine

there is no reason for them to be this shit and not serious. no clue how this whole restructure will impact them or if it will make them competitive or not

Haas never will be serious because Gene never is going to spend at the F1 level. he's a decade in and has never shown any interest in, using terminology i saw on reddit or on twitter, having his F1 team be more than a moving billboard.

AT has the potential to do some really interesting things moving forward. i think we are quickly approaching the point where the value of the team is worth enough that RBR has to consider selling them, depending on what happens with RB leadership moving forward and if they want to spend the money.

 

[NoName 16,349]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:49 AM, FirstTimeCaller said:

I can't be the only one that wasn't all starry-eyed at Steiner, right?

He seems like a decent guy and likable enough, but the online love for him reminded me of how all the people in your freshman college course thinks the professor that cusses during a lecture is so cool and funny. 

Don't know if it was him or the situation with HAAS/spending, but the team always performed terribly and never showed signs of improvement or even really trying. 

i liked him. there is no team more hamstrung by ownership during the last few years than Haas. i understand why a change had to be made but it's absolutely a situation where ownership screwed everyone.

we are about to see what is ultimately the worst case scenario. you have someone who isn't interesting, at all, running a team that isn't interesting, at all, owned by a guy who has no interest in spending a penny more than he has to.

so now they will suck,  and will be significantly less interesting.

they are a team that has finished better than 8th exactly once ever (5th) and in the last 4 years have scored 3, 0, 37 and 12 points total. they have 1 top 5 finish in the last 5 years, and that was Bahrain 2 years ago. their driver development program has exactly one driver in it, who is 28 years old. at least Aston has Drugovich, who is is like 23.

[NoName 16,349]

pulling this question from Reddit, because it's interesting

Why has a backmarker team never built a track-specific car for a one-off win? (Ie Monaco)

Quote

 

Wouldn't it be cool if a backmarker team designed a car specifically to be strong at Monaco? Surely, the financial benefits of winning just one race would be bigger than struggling for points at every race.

Has this strategy ever been used in the past? I could see turbo vs NA in the 80s having certain track advantages - but strategically 'throwing' certain races in order to win others?

Clearly this isn't easy in practice. At Monaco, for example, a team would want different gear ratios and more steering lock. But they also want more downforce and thats pretty much always true at every track.

Would it be better to design a slipstream monster to try and win glory at Monza? I feel certain teams have come unintentionally close to this by lack of downforce alone.

There's also the risk of the 107% rule, but thats just more media attention. What if a team won a race and didnt qualify the next week???

EDIT: wow thanks for all the responses. Most people seem to think its not feasible under the current regs. Is there an era when this would have been more doable?

 

enjoyed the comments and folks talking about it.

[Dutch 4,465]

Livery drop, McLaren edition. Cleaner look, other than the Google wheels.

Compared to last year…

 

[Guest]

Not a fan. Better than last year, but too damn busy.

[G650 14,229]

No Marlboro, would not bang

[dieucla98 2,942]

7 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Not a fan. Better than last year, but too damn busy.

They have a ton of shitty logos they have to deal with (with some awful colors to compliment an orange/black car) but I like the orange/black balance going more dark side overall. Probably best they can manage given the sponsors unless the sponsors will go black and white.

[Mittens 8,251]

I'd have gone papaya heavy on the top half of the car, black on the bottom.  Really wish some F1 team would let me design their livery one year.

[deft 6,828]

Alpine

there is no reason for them to be this shit and not serious. no clue how this whole restructure will impact them or if it will make them competitive or not
Haas never will be serious because Gene never is going to spend at the F1 level. he's a decade in and has never shown any interest in, using terminology i saw on reddit or on twitter, having his F1 team be more than a moving billboard.
AT has the potential to do some really interesting things moving forward. i think we are quickly approaching the point where the value of the team is worth enough that RBR has to consider selling them, depending on what happens with RB leadership moving forward and if they want to spend the money.
 

Yeah fuck alpine.

[wood 11,225]

12 hours ago, G650 said:

No Marlboro, would not bang

Yeah, but BAT makes Velo! 

BTW, how do they get away with tobacco product branding?

[G650 14,229]

5 hours ago, wood said:

Yeah, but BAT makes Velo! 

BTW, how do they get away with tobacco product branding?

That's actually a good question, I have no idea

[Hawndoh 2,386]

I think Velo is a tobacco free nicotine pouch. Bit of a loophole and ad regulations for nicotine pouches is still in early stages.

 

[wood 11,225]

53 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

I think Velo is a tobacco free nicotine pouch. Bit of a loophole and ad regulations for nicotine pouches is still in early stages.

Yep. Same drug. Addictive af. Just from a different plant. 

Evil fuckers.

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

As always, I don't care what it looks like (too much black), just get results. 

[NoName 16,349]

 

https://speedcafe.com/las-vegas-retains-start-slot-as-f1-unveils-full-gp-times/

Quote

 

The inaugural race around Las Vegas was criticised for its timings, notably given the late hour of the second practice session and qualifying which were both set for midnight.

FP2, however, did not eventually commence until 2.30 am, finishing at 4 am, due to the repairs undertaken, and safety checks made, after Carlos Sainz sustained extensive damage to his Ferrari in FP1 after driving over a water-valve cover that exploded underneath his SF23.

Although the race will again commence at 10 pm, it remains to be seen whether start-time tweaks will be made to practice and qualifying.

 

Qatar was moved back on the calendar and back by +3 hours of start time

Miami was moved back by 30 min (330p to 4p)

Quote

As it stands, alongside Las Vegas, the six sprint weekends in China, Miami, Austria, the United States (Austin), Brazil, and Qatar, all require their schedules to be finalised, except the race start itself.

 

[Guest]

Since it's the offseason... anyone know much or follow rally racing?

Every time I see it, it looks like the absolute most fun racing on the planet but I don't even know the first thing about it.

[wood 11,225]

50 minutes ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Since it's the offseason... anyone know much or follow rally racing?

Every time I see it, it looks like the absolute most fun racing on the planet but I don't even know the first thing about it.

I know I miss having good coverage of it. Some of the best drivers on the planet, with huge cojones to match. No way in the world I could ever commit the way they do on the roads they're driving, with trees, rocks, etc all over the place (or hinklesteins, in the case of Petter Solberg and Phil Mills). 

Starts at about 24s:

 

Edited January 18 by wood

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

 

[wood 11,225]

2 hours ago, ConferenceRoom said:

 

Fuuuuck. Yeah, co-driver thought he was a dead man. That cattle guard woulda sliced right through the car. And later along the cliffs was some crazy shit too.

[ConferenceRoom 6,141]

3 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Since it's the offseason... anyone know much or follow rally racing?

Every time I see it, it looks like the absolute most fun racing on the planet but I don't even know the first thing about it.

 

[wood 11,225]

4 minutes ago, ConferenceRoom said:

 

I remember playing the Colin McRae rally game. Trying to listen to and actually make use of the pace notes given by the co-driver was incredibly hard. Way harder than I thought it would be. You're driving and listening to the notes about turns 2-4 turns ahead.

[wood 11,225]

Starting 2026. My buddy who knows things says "They're not that close yet, so it's crazy that it's being announced". ETA: Seems like poturing to me. Maybe an FOM negotiating ploy, pressuring Barcelona?  Or maybe the Madrid mayor posturing some way. 

Edited January 19 by wood

[wood 11,225]

Because fuck the offseason, watch this shit my kid just showed me. Pastrana goin' all Hoonigan in his Scooby ...

 

[PittsburghTiger 6,174]

On 1/18/2024 at 12:39 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

Since it's the offseason... anyone know much or follow rally racing?

Every time I see it, it looks like the absolute most fun racing on the planet but I don't even know the first thing about it.

If by fun, you mean insane, yes, I agree.

It is amazing.

[PittsburghTiger 6,174]

Just booked my flight for August for the Dutch Grand Prix. I’m not going to worry about Amsterdam. Gonna just fly to Frankfurt and get on the train to the relative’s house, spend a couple days there before we drive up to their beach place, which is north of the track by about 50 miles. I’m excited.

[wood 11,225]

Nice. Me & the 20 yo head out Friday for Daytona for the 24. First time to DIS for either of us. Maybe Brad Pitt will put us in his movie ... 

[PittsburghTiger 6,174]

9 minutes ago, wood said:

Nice. Me & the 20 yo head out Friday for Daytona for the 24. First time to DIS for either of us. Maybe Brad Pitt will put us in his movie ... 

Years ago an acquaintance of mine, and his dad, won their class at Daytona. They drove a 911.

[wood 11,225]

2 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Years ago an acquaintance of mine, and his dad, won their class at Daytona. They drove a 911.

I give up. I'm stumped.

[PittsburghTiger 6,174]

1 minute ago, wood said:

I give up. I'm stumped.

Jay Policastro and his dad, Joe I believe is the father’s name if I remember correctly.

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/02/01/178873.html

[wood 11,225]

1 minute ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Jay Policastro and his dad, Joe I believe is the father’s name if I remember correctly.

https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/02/01/178873.html

That's really cool. 👍