Florida State can fuck off

[C-Man 27,058]

3 minutes ago, thunderlounge said:

From all current appearances it looks like they’ve handled it as best they could. Never making such a statement publicly, or letting something slip out like that. Simply a note about him entering the portal, everybody wishes everyone well, and amicably part.  

It's more of a dig at the current system where you have to make a decision before your team gets to the end of the season. Missing a meaningless bowl game? Who cares. Not be able to experience a national semifinal -- or title game -- with the guys you've spent the last several years with kind of sucks.

[thunderlounge 7,758]

That does suck. MM earned that right, playing or not. Maybe he still goes, but not suited up.

I do agree though, it’s a shitty position to put them in. But considering most semesters start right after, what can you do?

[Chopper 17,170]

This is Nicole Auerbach's analysis from Friday. I didn't see it here but I may not have gone back far enough.

edit - I guess it's worth pointing out that the ACC preemptively challenged FSU on jurisdiction, by filing suit last Thursday in North Carolina. The ACC's lawsuit in NC "argues that FSU is not allowed to challenge the grant of rights due to language in the agreement and because FSU signed it and benefitted from it for 10 years. The ACC also argues that jurisdiction for this decision is in North Carolina, where ACC business is handled."

The FSU suit seems like a roll of the dice...at least they'll get an answer though it's probably not going to be the answer they want.

Quote

Spoiler

The Athletic - Dec. 22

After nearly a year of overtures and not-so-veiled threats, Florida State has finally taken legal action against the Atlantic Coast Conference in what could be the first step toward extracting itself from the league it has called home since 1991.

An exit by FSU could destabilize the college athletics landscape and spark another significant round of realignment, particularly if it paved the way for other disgruntled ACC members to leave the league. But there will be legal challenges to sort through first.

The Florida State Board of Trustees on Friday filed a complaint for declaratory judgment against the ACC, seeking court guidance to determine whether the ACC’s exit fee and/or grant of rights are legally enforceable against Florida State. The Board states in the filing, a copy of which was obtained by The Athletic, that it needs an answer so it knows whether the school “can be withdrawn from the ACC before the damage to Florida State becomes even more irreversible.”

Lawyers for the Seminoles estimate that the current cost of paying the ACC’s exit fee in addition to the forfeiture of media rights revenue would cost the school $572 million, according to a copy of the complaint obtained by The Athletic. They believe that the severity of the penalty to withdraw from the league should be considered “unreasonable restraints of trade” or unenforceable. They also allege in the filing that the ACC materially breached its contracts with Florida State by failing to properly exploit its media rights value, by extending the league’s contract with ESPN in disadvantageous ways without required input from schools and by adding three new members to the ACC (Stanford, Cal and SMU) that do not add value to the conference.

“The ACC … appeared dedicated to self-preservation and self-perpetuation over the fiscal well-being of its members,” the Board alleges in the filing. “A conference so dedicated cannot endure.”

The complaint was filed in the circuit court of the Second Judicial Circuit in Leon County, Fla.

“Today we’ve reached a crossroads in our relationship with the ACC,” Board of Trustees chair Peter Collins said during Friday’s board meeting. “This Board has been left no choice but to challenge the legitimacy of the ACC grant of rights and its severe withdrawal penalties. None of us like being in this position. I know the president and our athletic director don’t like being in this position. I believe we have exhausted all possible remedies within the conference. We must do what’s best for Florida State not only in the short term, but also in the long-term.”
The Board of Trustees states in the complaint that it cannot vote for the school to withdraw from the conference without knowing the legality of the exit fee and/or the grant of rights, a legally binding document that controls the publicity rights of a conference’s member schools. The ACC’s grant of rights runs through 2036.

“Through chronic fiduciary mismanagement and bad faith, the ACC has persistently undermined its members’ revenue opportunities including by locking them into a deteriorating media rights agreement that will soon result in a vast annual financial gap between the ACC and other Power Five (soon to be Power Four) conferences,” the Board alleges in the complaint. “Those failures have, by design, coalesced with the ACC’s efforts to effectively deprive ACC members of their fundamental right to withdraw, through the combination of an unconscionable Grant of Rights provision and a prohibitive Withdrawal Penalty that are unparalleled in the history of intercollegiate athletics. …

“The ACC’s incompetence at the bargaining table unfairly impedes the overall institutional advancement of all its members, including Florida State. By depriving its members of the full media value of their football programs the ACC has undermined its members’ ability to fund other vital sports such as women’s and Olympic sports.”

Ahead of FSU’s filing, the ACC on Thursday filed its own complaint against the FSU Board of Trustees, this one in Mecklenburg Superior Court in North Carolina. The complaint argues that FSU is not allowed to challenge the grant of rights due to language in the agreement and because FSU signed it and benefitted from it for 10 years. The ACC also argues that jurisdiction for this decision is in North Carolina, where ACC business is handled. FSU’s complaint argues that Florida is the jurisdiction.

The ACC similarly sued Maryland in 2012 over the size of its exit fee and whether it was around $20 million or around $52 million. Maryland, which was moving to the Big Ten, countersued. The sides eventually settled at $31.3 million two years later through mediation. But that was before the ACC had a grant of rights. This legal fight with FSU revolves around not only an exit fee, but the enforceability of the grant of rights.

Florida State’s filing alleges that the ACC mishandled and misrepresented its contract extension negotiations with ESPN in 2016, stating that “the ACC verbally represented to its members that ESPN had issued an ultimatum: unless each ACC member executed an extension of the ACC (grant of rights), from 2027 to 2036, a full nine years beyond the then-expiration of ESPN’s Tier I agreement, ESPN would enter into no further media rights agreements with the ACC.”

The complaint revealed publicly for the first time that the ACC’s 2016 extension with ESPN did not contain any guarantees of payment beyond the initial contract’s expiration on June 30, 2027, and it included a provision that ESPN has “a unilateral option to extend that Agreement” at the previously agreed-upon rate (negotiated in 2012) an additional nine years, through 2036. The filing alleges that ACC members were required to sign and extend the grant of rights through 2036 even though the media rights contract with ESPN was not guaranteed to extend through the same period.

The launch of the ACC Network in 2019 triggered a requirement that ESPN decide by 2021 whether it would extend the contract from 2027 to 2036. But in August 2021, new ACC commissioner Jim Phillips extended that deadline to February 2025 in a formal amendment that he allegedly signed on his own without approval from two-thirds of his membership, which is required by league bylaws. The complaint concludes there is currently no guarantee of media rights revenue for the conference beyond June 2027.

Florida State alleges that it was duped into signing the longer-term grant of rights in 2016 because of what it calls a feigned “ESPN Ultimatum,” believing the extension of the grant of rights was not a real precondition because ESPN was not guaranteeing revenue for its duration. The school also states that the language of the 2016 ESPN extension requires the ACC have at least 15 members, but that the members could be interchangeable. That, Florida State believes, is why the league added Stanford, Cal and SMU in August — a move that the complaint calls “self-serving and defensive, as opposed to strategic.”

The complaint also alleges that the ACC’s exit penalties are egregious and far more severe than peer conferences, and that they were ramped up in response to Maryland’s departure to the Big Ten in 2012 and then increased exponentially in the years that followed to make it essentially impossible for a league member to leave.

Florida State’s lawyers and media consultants estimate that leaving the ACC now would cost the school $572 million: $429 million for the forfeiture of media rights through 2036 ($33 million for 13 years), $13 million for unreimbursed broadcast fees ($1 million for 13 years); and the exit fee of three times the total operating budget for the ACC, which is approximately $130 million.

If the exit fee and/or the grant of rights are deemed illegal or unenforceable, the Board also asked the court for Florida State “to be deemed to have issued its formal notice of withdrawal from the ACC under Section 1.4.5 of the ACC Constitution effective August 14, 2023.” That would significantly speed up the school’s actual exit from the conference, as it is required to give official notice of withdrawal before Aug. 15 for the following academic year. Otherwise, FSU could give notice by Aug. 15, 2024 to compete in a different league or as an independent beginning with the 2025-26 academic year.

“Florida State is a victim of chronic mismanagement by ACC leadership and finds itself unable to effectively evaluate alternatives while the Severe Withdrawal Penalties and the (grant of rights) hang over Florida State’s head,” the filing alleges. “Therefore, those penalties effectively prevent Florida State from realizing its market worth.”

That language echoes comments made by Florida State leadership over the past year, in prior board meetings but also at ACC meetings and in other public settings. Florida State president Rick McCullough in August cited projections showing that the Seminoles will fall behind their peers in the Big Ten and SEC by as much as $30 million per year by the end of those leagues’ current media deals. Multiple members of the Seminoles’ Board of Trustees openly discussed potentially leaving the ACC altogether because of that in early August.

“After exploring all options, we are left with only this option as a way to maximize our potential as an athletic department, and it’s best for Florida State University,” said FSU president Rick McCullough during Friday’s board meeting.

Last year, the Big Ten finalized a new set of broadcast rights agreements worth a total of more than $1 billion per year, which are widely expected to push its annual revenue distributions per school toward $70 million per year; the SEC is poised to raise its revenue payouts to a similar level when Oklahoma and Texas join the league in 2024. Meanwhile, the ACC distributed an average of $39.4 million per school for the 2021-22 school year, a number that has steadily increased but still already lags well behind those of the Big Ten ($58.8 million in ’21-22) and SEC ($49.9 million in ’21-22).

“We need to do whatever it takes to get there,” McCullough told The Athletic last month. “We’re behind.”

Florida State athletic director Michael Alford told The Athletic last month that he did not think it made sense for the school to go independent. There are also no assurances from the 16-team SEC or the 18-team Big Ten that invitations are waiting at this point. But officials at Florida State feel hamstrung by the lack of clarity surrounding potential ACC exit fees and exit procedures and are using the complaint to get answers they believe are necessary as they chart their course forward.

Phillips and Jim Ryan, Chair of the ACC Board of Directors, issued the following statement late Friday morning:

“Florida State’s decision to file action against the Conference is in direct conflict with their longstanding obligations and is a clear violation of their legal commitments to the other members of the Conference. All ACC members, including Florida State, willingly and knowingly re-signed the current Grant of Rights in 2016, which is wholly enforceable and binding through 2036. Each university has benefited from this agreement, receiving millions of dollars in revenue and neither Florida State nor any other institution, has ever challenged its legitimacy.

“As a league, we are proud of the successes of our student-athletes and that the ACC has won the most NCAA National Championships over the past two and half years while also achieving the highest graduation success and academic performance rates among all FBS conferences, so it is especially disappointing that FSU would choose to pursue this unprecedented and overreaching approach.

“We are confident that the Grant of Rights, which has been honored by all other universities who signed similar agreements, will be affirmed by the courts and the Conference’s legal counsel will vigorously enforce the agreement in the best interests of the ACC’s current and incoming members.”

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Chopper

[Longboard Horn 40,145]

 

[ChickenNuggets 1,611]

Florida State is a prime example of an entity without vision... Texas on the other hand... our leadership saw the writing on the wall, saddled up to the SEC knowing we could influence the future conference realignment madness from inside the SEC better than we could leading a marginal Power 5 in the Big 12.

FSU is just being reactionary.. They will never be part of the SEC nor the Big 10. Plus, going to a 12-team playoff next year, the solution has resolved itself. They'll leave the ACC and end up dateless... Out of the proverbial frying pan and into the fire. 

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,329]

5 minutes ago, ChickenNuggets said:

Florida State is a prime example of an entity without vision... Texas on the other hand... our leadership saw the writing on the wall, saddled up to the SEC knowing we could influence the future conference realignment madness from inside the SEC better than we could leading a marginal Power 5 in the Big 12.

FSU is just being reactionary.. They will never be part of the SEC nor the Big 10. Plus, going to a 12-team playoff next year, the solution has resolved itself. They'll leave the ACC and end up dateless... Out of the proverbial frying pan and into the fire. 

This is all theatre. Unless they find the magical loophole they are trying to find, they wont be leaving the ACC anytime soon. They just want to be able to say they really really tried to leave. 

[ChickenNuggets 1,611]

Totally agree. But.. they do lack vision. Weren't they opposed to going to a 12-team playoff last year or something? 

[Pam Cummings 9,582]

FSU has handled this poorly. The best way for them to handle it would have been to issue a statement that they are disappointed in the CFP committee's decision but will continue to build into next year, where the playoffs will expand and they will be able to get in with another season like the one they just had. 

 

To focus all this energy and effort into playing the victim and trying to reverse a decision that is impossible to reverse is a waste. Their school needs to officially move on from it and encourage the fans to do the same. People would respect that. People don't respect whining.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[Vic Mackey 46,936]

FSU has handled this poorly. The best way for them to handle it would have been to issue a statement that they are disappointed in the CFP committee's decision but will continue to build into next year, where the playoffs will expand and they will be able to get in with another season like the one they just had. 
 
To focus all this energy and effort into playing the victim and trying to reverse a decision that is impossible to reverse is a waste. Their school needs to officially move on from it and encourage the fans to do the same. People would respect that. People don't respect whining.

Also, no one gives a fuck anymore. It was a story for a day or 2 after it happened but most have moved on.

[Zeus 5,950]

58 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

FSU has handled this poorly. The best way for them to handle it would have been to issue a statement that they are disappointed in the CFP committee's decision but will continue to build into next year, where the playoffs will expand and they will be able to get in with another season like the one they just had. 

 

To focus all this energy and effort into playing the victim and trying to reverse a decision that is impossible to reverse is a waste. Their school needs to officially move on from it and encourage the fans to do the same. People would respect that. People don't respect whining.

 

Maybe don't look like absolute dogshit against Louisville. That shit was embarrassing, them pushing all this political crap after that performance is just silly.

 

 

[Jersey Man10 3,508]

But, but…wHaT’s ThE pOiNt Of pLaYiNg ThE gAmEs ThEn?!?!

[Pam Cummings 9,582]

17 minutes ago, Jersey Man10 said:

But, but…wHaT’s ThE pOiNt Of pLaYiNg ThE gAmEs ThEn?!?!

Every single game has to matter 100%!!!!!!

 

This is a sentiment that ive never understood either. If you want to win the championship and you lose 2 games.....the rest of your games don't matter.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[TreatyOak 16,150]

Observations from Stuart Mandel: 

Florida State’s lawyers did not throw together that lawsuit overnight. They’ve been doing their due diligence for at least a year or longer. So, you might assume the school had some assurance of an attractive landing spot before opting to go scorched earth on its conference.

But to Jeremy’s point, I can’t imagine SEC commissioner Greg Sankey wants anything to do with FSU’s pot-stirring ways. He also doesn’t need the ‘Noles. He already has the flagship university in the state of Florida, along with a half-dozen other schools with as much or more brand cachet. The Big Ten makes more sense as a home for FSU since it has already shown it’s willing to bend all geographic barriers. Plus its main partner, Fox, currently has no presence in the Southeast. It’s also not currently facing an existential crisis in its business like ESPN.

But I believe FSU is mostly betting on itself and its ability to command value in whatever the next iteration of college football might look like. To that end, FSU has for some time been seeking a private equity partner to fund this whole endeavor. In the meantime, the school is making its relationship with the ACC untenable to the point where the league may soon have no choice but to negotiate some sort of reduced-fee exit.

If/when that day comes, I see one of three scenarios happening:

1. The Big Ten comes calling. Fox — less streaming-dependent than ESPN — happily writes the check.
2. FSU brings along Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, etc., and forms a new football conference that, by stripping out the bottom half, commands more dollars per school than the current ACC.

[TKthunder2 4,981]

Mandel is a dumbass. The FOX angle is obvious, so good job finding the broadside of that barn of a take, but his second point is asinine.

Let’s go with his thought that FSU was to re-make a tighter ACC with a more football focus…they’d basically just cut out Boston College, Syracuse, Virginia, Duke, Wake Forest and the new guys and let even go further and assume they pull a rabbit out of their ass and add West Virginia (best team East of the Mississippi not named ND and not in the SEC/B1G) in this scenario as well.

This would be FSU’s schedule each year: Louisville, Pitt, WVU, VT, UNC, NCSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, and Florida

Does that really move the needle for anyone?

[thunderlounge 7,758]

No

[Magus Ossis 2,784]

A settlement will be reached. They are valuable to B1G and costly to SEC if in B1G and will therefore end up in one of those two leagues. What we don't know: how long to reach a deal, final cost of deal, B1G versus SEC, year starting in new league.

[Valmy77 13,094]

11 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Mandel is a dumbass. The FOX angle is obvious, so good job finding the broadside of that barn of a take, but his second point is asinine.

Let’s go with his thought that FSU was to re-make a tighter ACC with a more football focus…they’d basically just cut out Boston College, Syracuse, Virginia, Duke, Wake Forest and the new guys and let even go further and assume they pull a rabbit out of their ass and add West Virginia (best team East of the Mississippi not named ND and not in the SEC/B1G) in this scenario as well.

This would be FSU’s schedule each year: Louisville, Pitt, WVU, VT, UNC, NCSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, and Florida

Does that really move the needle for anyone?

Doesn't have to move the needle. Win the ACC next year, and every year going forward, and they are in the 12 team playoff.

Throwing a tantrum over an already expired system is what doesn’t move the needle.

And FSU beats Georgia and they might be have a claim to the national title. Instead most of their team opted out and they are likely to gey crushed. Does that move any needles? Quitting like bitches when you have something to play for?

[TKthunder2 4,981]

9 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Doesn't have to move the needle. Win the ACC next year, and every year going forward, and they are in the 12 team playoff.

Throwing a tantrum over an already expired system is what doesn’t move the needle.

It’s not about the playoffs (like you said that system is done), it’s about TV money. Does that lineup of team get them anymore money? The answer is not really. It may be better in the margins but they are still not going to get a SEC/B1G level payday with that cast.

Less money = fewer elite recruits

Fewer elite recruits means it’s hard to compete at the elite level with the other helmet schools. Making the playoffs doesn’t mean much if you never make it out of the first/second round. Just ask Dallas Cowboy fans.

[Vic Mackey 46,936]

Don't be mad at Texas. Bama is the team who jumped you. Texas was always getting in once Bama beat Georgia. Keep crying loser.

 

[BurntEyes 5,834]

A) Correct if there is a complaint it's with Bama not Texas 

B) Do they think any Texas fans will come to the defense of OUsux?

C) Did he was the ACC championship game? 

D) No body cares.

[DixonHur 11,227]

Lulz at fsu talking shit about a team looking like shit with a true freshman QB who hadn't really played all year...in short, that was NOT the same ou team we lost to, just as your team sucks ass without Travis.

[thunderlounge 7,758]

Funny how they see it in others, but still can’t for themselves. 

[sith_horn 2,370]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:16 PM, TreatyOak said:

Observations from Stuart Mandel: 

If/when that day comes, I see one of three scenarios happening:

1. The Big Ten comes calling. Fox — less streaming-dependent than ESPN — happily writes the check.
2. FSU brings along Clemson, Miami, Virginia Tech, etc., and forms a new football conference that, by stripping out the bottom half, commands more dollars per school than the current ACC.

                           

[Firemans4Horn 17,834]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:05 PM, Firemans4Horn said:

Jordan Travis was awesome.  But he dead ☠️. 
 

Their offense looks like Indian food in a diaper left on top of a tall building in the Texas summer. 

still true. Just a month of stinking Indian food diaper later. 

[Tex Pete 20,179]

[Tex Pete 20,179]

[Zeus 5,950]

AHAHAHAHA

[runthebone 7,932]

Did they do something to piss off Georgia also?

[Tex Pete 20,179]

[CurlyDumps 4,440]

Nah, Georgia doesn't even want to be here.

lol 

[Firemans4Horn 17,834]

congrats to Aggy on getting 7-5 in the Acc Mike Elko

[billfromlaketravis 11,363]

Bud Elliott and Kanell are going to be fun on Tuesday if Texas and Bama win. 

It'll be a lot of well we were right at the time. Undefeated Power 5 champion, blah, blah, blah. Team was crushed they didn't make the playoffs. The committee did this to them not Georgia. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[TexArcher 37,520]

ThEy jUsT DidN't WanT tO Be ThErE, tHo!!!1!!

[Vic Mackey 46,936]

Hahahaha fuck off losers. This is why you were kept out.

[TxTower 650]

Bump. Just because.

[billfromlaketravis 11,363]

What a bitch. Kanell going with the FSU didn't want to be there + timeless classic "the bowl system is broken" + humble bragging on his mountain mansion. 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by billfromlaketravis

[Hornius Emeritus 12,420]

I can't even watch this game any more.

This is not good for college football.

[kingkoopa6 8,318]

Anyone got a pic of a tomahawk broke off in they own ass meme ?

[billfromlaketravis 11,363]

Bud Elliott going with opt out excuse and live updating the depth chart. 

Yep, Georgia didn't have any opt outs or transfers. Obviously playing at full strength given the score. 

Everybody comes from somewhere, but Kanell and Elliott are fans. They have shown zero interest in ever being impartial about Florida State. 

[mdleast 8,262]

What a bitch. Kanell going with the FSU didn't want to be there + timeless classic "the bowl system is broken" + humble bragging on his mountain mansion. 
 

Sure, Daniel. We all believe that if FSU were somehow winning this game you would be reminding us that this is a meaningless scrimmage

[billfromlaketravis 11,363]

This should take the bloom off of Norvell's rose. 

Sonny Dykes is a good coach ... but he lost to Georiga by 58 points. 

[Horn80 6,075]

FSU will not recover from this disaster.

[Scheiss Meister 8,399]

Damn, FSU!  It looks like the committee was right.  Anyone who watched the ACC and SEC title games saw this coming a mile away.

[TxTower 650]

FSU disappointed?
Can you imagine how disappointed Michigan is?

[TKthunder2 4,981]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

This should take the bloom off of Norvell's rose. 

Sonny Dykes is a good coach ... but he lost to Georiga by 58 points. 

FIFY

 

I wouldn’t crown him a good coach just yet. Patterson and TCU always run in cycles. They fired him just before they were scheduled to hit their peak and Dykes took over and rode that experienced team Gary built to a title game. People said Aranda was a “good” coach after 2021 as well…

[ChemicalHorn 348]

This “glorified scrimmage” narrative is so goddamn stupid. Guess what - good teams beat the shit out of bad teams in scrimmages too. Good teams don’t get their ass beat by 9(!!) touchdowns in scrimmages. FSU didn’t belong, especially after losing their best player. Tough pill to swallow but it is what it is.

[markstanco 12,509]

FSU disappointed?
Can you imagine how disappointed Michigan is?

You mean Washington. FSU would have been 3 and Texas 4.

[billfromlaketravis 11,363]

I hope when the bowl contracts get reworked, CBS picks up more bowls and tells Danny to shut the fuck up.

It’s easy to shoot hot takes from the hip when CBS’ best bowl is the Sun Bowl. 
 

ESPN would publicly execute Danny for that take if he was in their employ. 

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

4 minutes ago, markstanco said:

You mean Washington. FSU would have been 3 and Texas 4.

Texas wasn’t getting in over Washington. Texas got in because there weren’t four undefeated conference champions.  

[TxTower 650]

Texas wasn’t getting in over Washington. Texas got in because there weren’t four undefeated conference champions.  

Correct.