Cloak Room Sucks

[wildcat09 29453]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:30 PM, TwiceHorn said:

Here's the thing.  I'm not sure about open borders, myself.  Seems problematic, but I can't be sure.  I'm not going to call its advocates looney tunes, but I can have a legit disagreement about it. 

That said, Trump's policies at the border were cruel:  they mostly eliminated the possibility of asylum, separated families and mistreated minors, and criminalized what has rarely if ever been treated as a crime (first immigration offense).

Yes, Trump's policies were pretty effective at deterring people from showing up at the border and making it across.  The mere fact that anyone other than Trump was president and mitigated the cruelty meant we were going to have an influx of immigrants at our borders.

But being effective is not an excuse for cruelty.  I also don't think high immigration numbers are going to have an immediate adverse effect on the country.  The idea that they are a net drag is just not factual, at least in the foreseeable short term.

This is more for the immigration thread, but that's not why there's been an increase in people trying to immigrate. The real causes are (i) the prior admin's policies vis a vis the countries they're coming from (revoking aid and, for Venezuela, imposing sanctions), worsening conditions in those countries, and (ii) the pandemic, which delayed many peoples' attempts to immigrate.  

Edited January 18 by wildcat09

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19242]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:46 AM, BP44 said:

Awesome.  I’m a former poster on ancestral boards, created an account to post in a thread @immamacstarted in $9.95, seemingly to solicit honest feedback about what plagues him, he segregates my comments in a new thread I didn’t title, and I get negged into oblivion by @PenelopeWitherspoonand other cunts like her. 

I’m at the Ritz in the Quarter, beyond pissed about what I witnessed tonight down the street. I don’t know most of you in real life, and so for the people monitoring this thread, you can go fuck yourselves. 

Definitely Porterhouse.  This is exactly how we nuked his account a few months ago.  What a pussy.

[YGIFS 19453]

Could be him, because I've never heard anyone ever... call it "The Ritz in the Quarter."  Maybe he's got a super-secret codespeak from "N'awlins" but nobody I've heard from there refers to anything facing Canal Street as being "In the Quarter" but name-dropping "The Ritz" does track.  It's a great hotel, but the iHOP across the street from it (also on Canal) does not bill itself as "The iHOP in the Quarter".    But I don't think it's the same poster.  When he invariably posts my real name on here as he does every single year about this time, can confirm.  

[Bookman 4722]

I've been reading/posting on Longhorn sports BBS since the late 90's. I never posted on (or read) any politics boards until this country elected a six-time bankrupt failed businessman President of the United States. 

These are probably the same Americans who speak of "American Exceptionalism." 

[aggie08 21578]

7 hours ago, Bookman said:

I've been reading/posting on Longhorn sports BBS since the late 90's. I never posted on (or read) any politics boards until this country elected a six-time bankrupt failed businessman President of the United States. 

These are probably the same Americans who speak of "American Exceptionalism." 

Same. Been around since thujone's original realignment threads. Never once posted or read a CR post before Nov 4, 2020. Just no interest. 

But I was naive: I thought that even Trump's most ardent supporters were in on the joke and realized that he was lying through his teeth. I assumed that their thinking was somewhere along the lines of, "He's so funny when he trolls the liberal media and makes them dance." Stupid, but I figured mostly harmless for this little 4 year experiment.

Then, in 2020, I heard what I'd consider otherwise smart people say--and truly mean--things like, "You'll never hear about COVID again after November." As if the entire world and medical communities united in a conspiracy to make sure an American President lost an election. Then, people parroting obvious lies about stolen elections from a dude who has been baselessly crying fraud for every election since Obama. And it was a wake up call: "Holy shit. People truly believe the words spewing out of this narcissistic moron's mouth. That can't be a great sign for our electorate/society."

The open hatred for those you share a country with built around such blatant lies--and widespread appeal of those culture wars and conspiracies--was disheartening, culminating in 1/6. Even after that pathetic debacle, the temperature hasn't lowered. I don't know where we go from here.

All of this also corresponded with my first child, my daughter, being born in December 2019. Now, it's become nearly impossible to blissfully ignore politics like I used to when one party's official mottos are "We can't fix anything 100%, so why bother trying at all?" and "Fuck the future. Got mine." It's embarrassing the world that we're willfully leaving for the next generation.

Edited January 17 by aggie08

[Captainant 27970]

I'd like to submit into evidence, the academic fraud thread in DT that started as an interesting thread about falsified academic studies, and OP quickly took a turn into screedsville and started throwing partisan-adjacent attacks around by page 2

 

For how much some folks profess to want to avoid political discussion, they sure do invite it quite often. 

[elfenix 34385]

not moving the "looks like we've got another fake hate crime" thread opened the door to politics in DT.  half of that thread was grievancing about hate crime as a policy.  it's in the title of the thread for fuck's sake.  it's now the roadmap for discussing politics outside of where it belongs. 

[YGIFS 19453]

Speaking of crime-bitching...I just realized who Incredulity reminds me of in the California Black Friday thread.  Katy from 'Animal House.'  OFFICERS, OFFICERS, they're looting the Food King!!!!!

I actually think he's got a good sense of humor, or at least we share the same twisted one.  Plus at least he's willing to engage and bring some opinions and news to the table instead of just bitching incessantly about unfair it is that we just can't have a "Greatest President Evah!!!" forum with absolutely zero to back it up like probably 40% of this board would like to have.  

I come back to the same point again, from the LFZ Capitol Steps days to old Shaggy to even the first couple years here, we used to have robust, bi-partisan debates on here with facts and figures and legit news outlets being cited.  And I went on the attack a lot on Democrats, and a bit on Republicans.  And then we just started to mirror and match Trump and just made pouty declarations and if people didn't totally agree, everybody got all pissy and took their ball and went home.  And they're still bitching all these years later.  In the end, he was a mirror and some folks finally felt validated...but then got upset that not everybody wanted to see what they saw.  As crazy as the forum has gotten, my most haunting fear (besides the collapse of our Republic), is think about how well-educated and successful and engaged the bulk of the posters on here are.  And yet we still have these issues and hissy-fits.  How fucking godawful is it actually out there in middle-America right now?  How fucking low have they sunk?  How delusional?  How much denial are they in?  We all get pissy with one another but I know most of you are smart, capable folks with good intentions.  But what the fuck must it be like on private, uneducated message boards and dimly lit corners on Main Street in GED America?  I mean, we're a twisted lot...but it's gotta be a fucking nightmare out there for the stupids...and worse yet, they can't see it for what it is.  /rant

[bolverk 29807]

I might also submit that, apparently, making opinionated claims regarding the efficacy of Covid vaccines cannot be questioned with a request for empirical data in the Daily Texan "News" sub without being accused of being a political "Cloak Roomer."

(Please disregard the strike-thru in the quoted post. They get inserted sometimes when I make longer posts without refreshing the browser.

 

If you have trouble reading it with the strike-thru, here's the text that resulted in the accusation of CRing:

Spoiler

Do you have any data to back that bolded claim up?

Look, man, I haven't kept track of any of this shit since my first "booster," which I think would've been in October/November 2021, around six months after the initial jab. I can't recall because I lost that card a good while ago.

I just don't know why you decided to come in here and start talking shit about people getting shots they think/feel might help them if they come down with it again. If there's data that shows that the "many cases negative [of] vaccine reaction is similar to actually contracting the disease," I'll back off. Also, please specify what you mean. Is it the share of negative reactions to vaccinations versus the share of negative reactions to the virus for "low-risk" adults (e.g., for every 100 vaccines given, there are five negative reactions)?

Or is it that you've just heard of some people having negative reactions? Again, I haven't followed this in a very long time and could've missed something. Please, cite sources.

 

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but it just seems like sometimes people don't like having to back up claims, and when pushed/contradicted/questioned, they shout, "POLITICS SQUIRREL!!!" hoping that someone will be distracted.

[Celery Man 21026]

it is wild how people have been able to consistently stick with some version of “people getting worried over nothing!” as a covid stance through the whole damn thing 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

10 hours ago, bolverk said:

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but it just seems like sometimes people don't like having to back up claims, and when pushed/contradicted/questioned, they shout, "POLITICS SQUIRREL!!!" hoping that someone will be distracted.

The person with whom you were having a discussion wanted to drop in with a hot take and an ego fluff and it went sideways, thus the complaint. That happens sometimes and I'm sure it stings, but this virus has been and will continue to be a somewhat sensitive topic because of the way citizens became aware of it, the sources to which they referred, the news media they watched, the leaders to whom they listened, and in the various ways in which they were affected (or not). Some parts of the topic are indisputable and factual while others less so. IMO, nothing wrong with asking for support when stating an argument.

[wildcat09 29453]

10 hours ago, bolverk said:

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but it just seems like sometimes people don't like having to back up claims, and when pushed/contradicted/questioned, they shout, "POLITICS SQUIRREL!!!" hoping that someone will be distracted.

Edited February 9 by wildcat09

[Brian Fantana 6704]

15 hours ago, bolverk said:

I might also submit that, apparently, making opinionated claims regarding the efficacy of Covid vaccines cannot be questioned with a request for empirical data in the Daily Texan "News" sub without being accused of being a political "Cloak Roomer."

(Please disregard the strike-thru in the quoted post. They get inserted sometimes when I make longer posts without refreshing the browser.

 

If you have trouble reading it with the strike-thru, here's the text that resulted in the accusation of CRing:

  Hide contents

Do you have any data to back that bolded claim up?

Look, man, I haven't kept track of any of this shit since my first "booster," which I think would've been in October/November 2021, around six months after the initial jab. I can't recall because I lost that card a good while ago.

I just don't know why you decided to come in here and start talking shit about people getting shots they think/feel might help them if they come down with it again. If there's data that shows that the "many cases negative [of] vaccine reaction is similar to actually contracting the disease," I'll back off. Also, please specify what you mean. Is it the share of negative reactions to vaccinations versus the share of negative reactions to the virus for "low-risk" adults (e.g., for every 100 vaccines given, there are five negative reactions)?

Or is it that you've just heard of some people having negative reactions? Again, I haven't followed this in a very long time and could've missed something. Please, cite sources.

 

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but it just seems like sometimes people don't like having to back up claims, and when pushed/contradicted/questioned, they shout, "POLITICS SQUIRREL!!!" hoping that someone will be distracted.

This is the kind of shit blacklab eats up while pretending he isn't heavily pandering to one "side".

[Gatorubet 30391]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:20 PM, Poe It Up said:

Totally normal. Man I feel for Immamac. 

[Make em eat Taco Bell 1549]

colony of dorks

[Hook1997 5434]

The problem with CR is the same problem with society and politics today.  Both sides and a majority of their followers are more worried about being right than actually working together or seeing their own flaws at all. Neither side can admit anything wrong with their leaders, any criticism, ect is met with a die on the hill attitude of you’re wrong I’m right stance on every little thing instead of actually conversations.  It’s really quite crazy, what a time to be alive. 

[bolverk 29807]

9 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

The problem with CR is the same problem with society and politics today.  Both sides and a majority of their followers are more worried about being right than actually working together or seeing their own flaws at all. Neither side can admit anything wrong with their leaders, any criticism, ect is met with a die on the hill attitude of you’re wrong I’m right stance on every little thing instead of actually conversations.  It’s really quite crazy, what a time to be alive. 

I don't buy this argument in the slightest. If you go in there to discuss a problem with an honest attempt at reaching a consensus, I'd bet you'll be met with those willing to listen.

A couple of current disagreements among posters on active topics that have remained civil are a) whether Fani Willis' hiring of some dude she was bonking would hurt the election fraud case against Trump in Georgia and b) whether Biden's age is problematic. Most posters agree that each of those is not ideal, but there are dissenters. Given the context of each, however, most are willing to give both Willis and Biden a pass. Willis' actions harm public perception but don't change the facts of the case. Still, more than a few question her judgment. Trump is also old and showing signs of slipping, so we're going to elect a geezer either way. If that's true of both, then why not go with the one who didn't try to overturn an election? Care to debate either of those?

It's true that most come at things from an ideological perspective, ranging from pretty far left to left-of-center to moderate and then to far-right, but that's because a lot of posters from the center-right camp have abandoned the discussion of political issues/subjects altogether. So, what problem would you like to discuss and reach a consensus on? You are allowed your beliefs if you're willing to back them up with something.

A few other problems that are open to discussion that have been brought up this morning:

• The founder of Gab and his company have created an AI chatbot modeled on Hitler that denies the Holocaust. How should we work together on solving this?
• Ted Cruz, our senator, is criticizing America's weakness and appeasement vis-a-vis Russia for causing Nalvany death in prison only days after having voted against providing Ukraine arms. How should we work together on solving this?
• The vast majority of Americans continue to support abortion rights, but state legislatures continue to restrict access in the wake of the Dobbs decision. How should we work together on solving this?
• There are a couple of threads discussing the radicalizing influences of the Far Right, such as Tucker Carlson going to Russia to praise their country and criticize ours along with the rest of the West and neo-Nazi demonstrations on the steps of the Tennessee Capitol. How should we work together on solving this?
• There's a thread talking about how a single West Texas billionaire is influencing the politics of our state through his campaign donations. How should we work together on solving this?
• There are a myriad of threads discussing Trump's financial and legal woes along with his efforts to get out of them, like selling a hideous pair of shoes. I'm not sure we can come together to solve these.
• There are threads discussing the chances of various candidates winning legislative seats, but these are just data and "what are the odds" types of discussions.

So, if none of those grab your attention, what topics du jour would you like to get together on and figure out? If you've got something else, start a thread.

 

P.S. Also, it's "etc." (abbreviation of et cetera). I'm not being snarky, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

[Hook1997 5434]

25 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I don't buy this argument in the slightest. If you go in there to discuss a problem with an honest attempt at reaching a consensus, I'd bet you'll be met with those willing to listen.

A couple of current disagreements among posters on active topics that have remained civil are a) whether Fani Willis' hiring of some dude she was bonking would hurt the election fraud case against Trump in Georgia and b) whether Biden's age is problematic. Most posters agree that each of those is not ideal, but there are dissenters. Given the context of each, however, most are willing to give both Willis and Biden a pass. Willis' actions harm public perception but don't change the facts of the case. Still, more than a few question her judgment. Trump is also old and showing signs of slipping, so we're going to elect a geezer either way. If that's true of both, then why not go with the one who didn't try to overturn an election? Care to debate either of those?

It's true that most come at things from an ideological perspective, ranging from pretty far left to left-of-center to moderate and then to far-right, but that's because a lot of posters from the center-right camp have abandoned the discussion of political issues/subjects altogether. So, what problem would you like to discuss and reach a consensus on? You are allowed your beliefs if you're willing to back them up with something.

A few other problems that are open to discussion 

There’s no real discussion here about Biden’s age being an issue here minus a sprinkle of posts.  The last couple pages of the Biden thread are about Trump mostly.  
 

The center-right abandoned the discussion here because no one listens when people even try to make a solid point.  Instead it’s met with anger and things like go suck Trump’s dick more or other name calling.  Now some do come in just spouting far right crap too and get yelled at for good reason.  The same thing happens if a democrat goes to a right leaning forum trying to make valid points.  I’ve seen it plenty while reading threads in the past here.
 

The they both are showing sign of slipping so choose the non crazy person argument kinda proves my point.  Both parties should not be running either of them but the loudest voices and most extreme run both now.  Many people on both sides shouldn’t be in the positions they are in but people love the ones yelling the loudest, most rah rah their side these days even if what they are saying doesn’t make sense. I hate Trump as much as anyone and a year ago thought there was no was he was actually going to be the candidate. 
 

All the other issues you brought up are far right people issues that logically shouldn’t have arguments standing up for them and should be called out by their own party but instead it’s blind support.  
 

All my opinions obviously, so I don’t care to debate it more either. The reason people don’t like going to political forums these days is that no one listens to any idea that’s different than their own.  You can say otherwise but I don’t believe for the most part that is close to true. I don’t really believe deep down that both parties truly think these are the best candidates they can come up with but here we are. 

[bolverk 29807]

17 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

There’s no real discussion here about Biden’s age being an issue here minus a sprinkle of posts.  The last couple pages of the Biden thread are about Trump mostly.  
 

The center-right abandoned the discussion here because no one listens when people even try to make a solid point.  Instead it’s met with anger and things like go suck Trump’s dick more or other name calling.  Now some do come in just spouting far right crap too and get yelled at for good reason.  The same thing happens if a democrat goes to a right leaning forum trying to make valid points.  I’ve seen it plenty while reading threads in the past here.
 

The they both are showing sign of slipping so choose the non crazy person argument kinda proves my point.  Both parties should not be running either of them but the loudest voices and most extreme run both now.  Many people on both sides shouldn’t be in the positions they are in but people love the ones yelling the loudest, most rah rah their side these days even if what they are saying doesn’t make sense. I hate Trump as much as anyone and a year ago thought there was no was he was actually going to be the candidate. 
 

All the other issues you brought up are far right people issues that logically shouldn’t have arguments standing up for them and should be called out by their own party but instead it’s blind support.  
 

All my opinions obviously, so I don’t care to debate it more either. The reason people don’t like going to political forums these days is that no one listens to any idea that’s different than their own.  You can say otherwise but I don’t believe for the most part that is close to true. I don’t really believe deep down that both parties truly think these are the best candidates they can come up with but here we are. 

To be fair to you, I should've pointed out that most of the age discussion has been in the last couple of pages of the Jon Stewart thread, based on his return to the Daily Show. Also, I want you to know I would like more varied voices in the CR, so please view these responses as an earnest attempt to engage. I'd also like you to know that I do have very serious reservations about Biden's age.

I've also tagged you into a discussion that raises some interesting issues if you care to join.

You can watch the Stewart clips here if you haven't seen them:

 

You can follow the age discussion starting here:

 

Edited February 18 by bolverk

[Celery Man 21026]

I feel like Prince Charles waiting for all these boomer era people to gtfo. Saw an ad for a movie yesterday with Jennifer Lopez in the role of attractive lady and it’s the same damn thing.

[Celery Man 21026]

44 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

The center-right abandoned the discussion here because no one listens when people even try to make a solid point.  Instead it’s met with anger and things like go suck Trump’s dick more or other name calling.  Now some do come in just spouting far right crap too and get yelled at for good reason.  The same thing happens if a democrat goes to a right leaning forum trying to make valid points.  I’ve seen it plenty while reading threads in the past here.
 

 

I think you’re kinda right, but also the skepticism of the center right is rational. The center right consistently votes for extremist lunatics. 

[bolverk 29807]

20 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

 

I think you’re kinda right, but also the skepticism of the center right is rational. The center right consistently votes for extremist lunatics. 

I feel like most of the center-right threw their lot in with Trump in 2016 and got burned. So their choice was to fall in line, join the opposition, or drop out, and I think that's been reflected by the CR participation (or lack thereof) that we've seen. And, to me, if you've dropped out, you shouldn't just complain from the sidelines.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

There’s no real discussion here about Biden’s age being an issue here minus a sprinkle of posts

Maybe I’m reading a different CR

but seems to most people readily admit Biden’s age is an issue but when viewed against the choice of a fascist Putin sympathizer rapist, it kind of loses relevance. It’s the same with any criticism of Biden. Some are valid, but they will always be compared to Fat Satan, and upon doing so, the criticisms look silly. 
 

[Brisketexan 105569]

I don't buy this argument in the slightest. If you go in there to discuss a problem with an honest attempt at reaching a consensus, I'd bet you'll be met with those willing to listen.
A couple of current disagreements among posters on active topics that have remained civil are a) whether Fani Willis' hiring of some dude she was bonking would hurt the election fraud case against Trump in Georgia and b) whether Biden's age is problematic. Most posters agree that each of those is not ideal, but there are dissenters. Given the context of each, however, most are willing to give both Willis and Biden a pass. Willis' actions harm public perception but don't change the facts of the case. Still, more than a few question her judgment. Trump is also old and showing signs of slipping, so we're going to elect a geezer either way. If that's true of both, then why not go with the one who didn't try to overturn an election? Care to debate either of those?
It's true that most come at things from an ideological perspective, ranging from pretty far left to left-of-center to moderate and then to far-right, but that's because a lot of posters from the center-right camp have abandoned the discussion of political issues/subjects altogether. So, what problem would you like to discuss and reach a consensus on? You are allowed your beliefs if you're willing to back them up with something.
A few other problems that are open to discussion that have been brought up this morning:

• The founder of Gab and his company have created an AI chatbot modeled on Hitler that denies the Holocaust. How should we work together on solving this?
• Ted Cruz, our senator, is criticizing America's weakness and appeasement vis-a-vis Russia for causing Nalvany death in prison only days after having voted against providing Ukraine arms. How should we work together on solving this?
• The vast majority of Americans continue to support abortion rights, but state legislatures continue to restrict access in the wake of the Dobbs decision. How should we work together on solving this?
• There are a couple of threads discussing the radicalizing influences of the Far Right, such as Tucker Carlson going to Russia to praise their country and criticize ours along with the rest of the West and neo-Nazi demonstrations on the steps of the Tennessee Capitol. How should we work together on solving this?
• There's a thread talking about how a single West Texas billionaire is influencing the politics of our state through his campaign donations. How should we work together on solving this?
• There are a myriad of threads discussing Trump's financial and legal woes along with his efforts to get out of them, like selling a hideous pair of shoes. I'm not sure we can come together to solve these.
• There are threads discussing the chances of various candidates winning legislative seats, but these are just data and "what are the odds" types of discussions.

So, if none of those grab your attention, what topics du jour would you like to get together on and figure out? If you've got something else, start a thread.
 
P.S. Also, it's "etc." (abbreviation of et cetera). I'm not being snarky, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

He’s not interested in “solving” any of those problems, because….he doesn’t think they’re problems at all.
It’s amazing how the “I don’t like Trump, so I’m trustworthy, I swear” crowd still ends up consistently falling in line with most/all of the hard right policy positions that are sizably out of step with a majority of Americans.
What they don’t like about Trump is that he’s messy and gauche. That’s it. They agree with everything he stands for, they’re just embarrassed by the package.
So, how do we work on the problem of Ted Cruz? We don’t. They will all vote for him and re-elect him.
How do solve the problems of women and their health after Dobbs? Tell them to keep their legs closed, and there won’t be any more problems.
Etc etc.
The conservative moment isn’t shitty because of Trump. The shittiness of the connective movement is what made Trump inevitable.

[aggie08 21578]

Who are the center-right candidates out there who won't fold under MAGA pressure and vote party lines for abject insanity and cruelty? Honestly asking. I've been asking for 3 years and haven't gotten an answer.

Theoretical rational, traditionally conservative platforms are great...do they still exist?

 

[Hook1997 5434]

50 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Maybe I’m reading a different CR

but seems to most people readily admit Biden’s age is an issue but when viewed against the choice of a fascist Putin sympathizer rapist, it kind of loses relevance. It’s the same with any criticism of Biden. Some are valid, but they will always be compared to Fat Satan, and upon doing so, the criticisms look silly. 
 

Where?  You can go back to page 16 of the Biden thread there is no talk about it being an issue, plenty of talk saying it’s the GOP narrative and there is no issue.  Half the Biden thread is about Trump.  The Jon Stewart thread is the closest thing to that, but most of it is well look at Trump.  We get it, everyone should know what Trump is at this point and yea it’s crazy people overlook everything and still support him just because he’s a Republican. Which goes back to being more worried about your side is wrong I’m right at all costs.  Let’s ignore this issue because look at the other guy isn’t addressing the issue..  

 

50 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

He’s not interested in “solving” any of those problems, because….he doesn’t think they’re problems at all.
It’s amazing how the “I don’t like Trump, so I’m trustworthy, I swear” crowd still ends up consistently falling in line with most/all of the hard right policy positions that are sizably out of step with a majority of Americans.
What they don’t like about Trump is that he’s messy and gauche. That’s it. They agree with everything he stands for, they’re just embarrassed by the package.
So, how do we work on the problem of Ted Cruz? We don’t. They will all vote for him and re-elect him.
How do solve the problems of women and their health after Dobbs? Tell them to keep their legs closed, and there won’t be any more problems.
Etc etc.
The conservative moment isn’t shitty because of Trump. The shittiness of the connective movement is what made Trump inevitable.

Also no, those are the loud voices you hear that say things like that then support everything he stands for.  I think both are flawed right now because they try so hard to be the opposite of the other.  Nothing will be fixed until both realize they need to work together instead of trying to prove the other is wrong non stop.  

 

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

 

I think you’re kinda right, but also the skepticism of the center right is rational. The center right consistently votes for extremist lunatics. 

While you are right to a point, that’s voting just on general policy over one person or the other side.  Also plenty undecided and center who just won’t vote this year, I expect the voting numbers to be way down this year.  

Edited February 18 by Hook1997

[royiv 9447]

14 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

The problem with CR is the same problem with society and politics today.  Both sides and a majority of their followers are more worried about being right than actually working together or seeing their own flaws at all. Neither side can admit anything wrong with their leaders, any criticism, ect is met with a die on the hill attitude of you’re wrong I’m right stance on every little thing instead of actually conversations.  It’s really quite crazy, what a time to be alive. 

Both sides!!!

[Hook1997 5434]

1 minute ago, royiv said:

Both sides!!!

Believing parts of both are right and maybe both should be more to the center is not a badge of shame you think it is….  Country would be much better off if both parties thought more like that.  But you wear your extreme to one side badge proud if you want!  

[immamac 43554]

34 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Who are the center-right candidates out there who won't fold under MAGA pressure and vote party lines for abject insanity and cruelty? Honestly asking. I've been asking for 3 years and haven't gotten an answer.

Theoretical rational, traditionally conservative platforms are great...do they still exist?

 

They don’t exist. This is why it’s an issue to discuss anything because the actual policy choices are fascism and cruelty for the sake of enrichment or normal inefficient boring policy that doesn’t have the promise of working but at least it’s trying. 

[royiv 9447]

6 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

Believing parts of both are right and maybe both should be more to the center is not a badge of shame you think it is….  Country would be much better off if both parties thought more like that.  But you wear your extreme to one side badge proud if you want!  

I don’t disagree with the first sentence in the least, but let’s not pretend that one side is putting forth a guy who attempted a coup as its candidate for POTUS. I find that to be a problematically unique situation in the history of our nation.

[Celery Man 21026]

The idea that the Biden threat wouldn’t also be about Trump is silly. Although I understand the desire from Republican posters.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

Where?  You can go back to page 16 of the Biden thread there is no talk about it being an issue, plenty of talk saying it’s the GOP narrative and there is no issue.  Half the Biden thread is about Trump.  The Jon Stewart thread is the closest thing to that, but most of it is well look at Trump.  We get it, everyone should know what Trump is at this point and yea it’s crazy people overlook everything and still support him just because he’s a Republican. Which goes back to being more worried about your side is wrong I’m right at all costs.  Let’s ignore this issue because look at the other guy isn’t addressing the issue..  

All before page 16

Most people acknowledge Biden is too old. It’s pretty obvious to anyone with two eyeballs. Hell, I think anyone over 70 is too old for office.

“Let’s ignore this issue because look at the other guy isn’t addressing the issue..”
How would you like us to address the issue? Talk about it every page? Seriously, I’m curious how you mean address it?

To me, it’s been addressed. No one fucking cares as long as Trump is on the ballot. I would literally vote for a lung machine pumping air into Biden over the other traitorous piece of shit. 
 

 

[Brisketexan 105569]

While you are right to a point, that’s voting just on general policy over one person or the other side.  Also plenty undecided and center who just won’t vote this year, I expect the voting numbers to be way down this year.  

Tapa quote of you: “Also no, those are the loud voices you hear that say things like that then support everything he stands for.  I think both are flawed right now because they try so hard to be the opposite of the other.  Nothing will be fixed until both realize they need to work together instead of trying to prove the other is wrong non stop.”
See, that’s the problem. I know you WANT it to be just some “loud voices.” But it’s not just those. The assholish positions I pointed out (and many, many others) don’t belong just to some screaming nut job on Twitter.
They belong to legislators regularly proposing (and frequently passing) legislation with those positions.
They belong to governors and attorneys general aggressively litigating in support of those positions.
Those positions are plainly stated in numerous Republican Party platforms - you know, the literal document that says “these are our priorities and beliefs.”
The John Birch Society HAS A SPEAKING SLOT AT CPAC.
Open and proud Nazis are advising Texas conservative advocacy groups, and Texas republicans remain divided over whether that’s a bad thing.
You don’t get to examine a patient riddled with tumors and say “it’s just a few loud rogue mutant cells.” No. It’s fucking cancer. And it’s killing us all. You’re either on the side of killing the cancer, or you’re not.
Yes, there are other problems with our body politic. It has a bum left knee, damaged hearing, a broken wrist, and it burns when it pees….but NONE OF THAT MATTERS IF WE DIE OF CANCER.
You’re over here asking “but why don’t we talk more about the bum knee, that limp is slowing us down” while everyone sane is focused on what kind of combo of surgery, radiation, and chemo can keep us alive to see another year.
Oh….and you also want us to keep smoking, drinking carcinogen-flavored water, and sitting out in the sun all day, feeding the cancer.
Nope. Sorry. I’m done with the Republican Party and everything it stands for. It’s contemptible and anti-American. For fucks sake, it harbors a real-deal movement to have Texas secede from MY COUNTRY. That’s fucking treason, and the Texas GQP discusses it as casually as placing lunch order. Seriously. Fucking treason, and you’re trying to “both sides” this shit?

[Guest]

LOlz.  Texas is never leaving.

Granted, it's idiotic that the loonytoon folks embrace the notion; but you know as well as everyone else does, it's NEVER going to happen.  That being said, all it does is distract from the real issues, and if it takes their eye off the ball on their quack-shack platform, then fucking GREAT!!!

 

[Captainant 27970]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

LOlz.  Texas is never leaving.

Granted, it's idiotic that the loonytoon folks embrace the notion; but you know as well as everyone else does, it's NEVER going to happen.  That being said, all it does is distract from the real issues, and if it takes their eye off the ball on their quack-shack platform, then fucking GREAT!!!

Yeah, it's totally a fringe talking point that isn't getting seriously bandied around by the party. But you're right that it's being brought into the discussion in bad faith as a means to steal oxygen from other conversations and debates. 

[Hook1997 5434]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Tapa quote of you: “Also no, those are the loud voices you hear that say things like that then support everything he stands for.  I think both are flawed right now because they try so hard to be the opposite of the other.  Nothing will be fixed until both realize they need to work together instead of trying to prove the other is wrong non stop.”
See, that’s the problem. I know you WANT it to be just some “loud voices.” But it’s not just those. The assholish positions I pointed out (and many, many others) don’t belong just to some screaming nut job on Twitter.
They belong to legislators regularly proposing (and frequently passing) legislation with those positions.
They belong to governors and attorneys general aggressively litigating in support of those positions.
Those positions are plainly stated in numerous Republican Party platforms - you know, the literal document that says “these are our priorities and beliefs.”
The John Birch Society HAS A SPEAKING SLOT AT CPAC.
Open and proud Nazis are advising Texas conservative advocacy groups, and Texas republicans remain divided over whether that’s a bad thing.
You don’t get to examine a patient riddled with tumors and say “it’s just a few loud rogue mutant cells.” No. It’s fucking cancer. And it’s killing us all. You’re either on the side of killing the cancer, or you’re not.
Yes, there are other problems with our body politic. It has a bum left knee, damaged hearing, a broken wrist, and it burns when it pees….but NONE OF THAT MATTERS IF WE DIE OF CANCER.
You’re over here asking “but why don’t we talk more about the bum knee, that limp is slowing us down” while everyone sane is focused on what kind of combo of surgery, radiation, and chemo can keep us alive to see another year.
Oh….and you also want us to keep smoking, drinking carcinogen-flavored water, and sitting out in the sun all day, feeding the cancer.
Nope. Sorry. I’m done with the Republican Party and everything it stands for. It’s contemptible and anti-American. For fucks sake, it harbors a real-deal movement to have Texas secede from MY COUNTRY. That’s fucking treason, and the Texas GQP discusses it as casually as placing lunch order. Seriously. Fucking treason, and you’re trying to “both sides” this shit?

The those decisions belong to legislators argument, that was kinda my whole point for both sides?  But to you one side is at fault completely here? For every Marjorie Taylor Green there’s a John Fetterman that got elected (I agree he was running against a person with brain damage also, hints my point)..  For every Ted Cruz there’s a AOC, defend it all you want but come on.. (they are pretty much each side’s opposite)  Hank Johnson thought an island might turn over because a base was too big on one side….  Jamaal Bowmam, Tommy Tuberville, the list goes on.  How people like this on either side get into office is astounding. Yes Trump brought out the worst in blind followers who choose to turn a blind eye to everything but the Democrat reaction to that was to act the same way to an extent. Neither admit flaws at any cost now and when challenged just talk louder about how the other is wrong instead of any actual discussion happening.  Are Trump politics and the hardcores that jump on board worse than anything else right now, sure.  But both parties and all media outlets have adopted the strategy.  So yes in my opinion it’s understandable to not like the direction either has taken.  This whole thread is about CR bring crap..  My whole point is in CR if you bring up any opposing view over half will just call you names and not give a educated answer.   Same with a conservative board right now.  Before a few years ago that wasn’t always the case, there’s a reason most on this board say CR has gone to shit recently.  It’s the same people patting themselves on the back and bitching in unison about views they don’t like, there’s seldom any actual debate on anything going on.  Same for a conservative board I’m sure.  

Edited February 19 by Hook1997

[elfenix 34385]

i love when people who definitely don't read CR know exactly what goes on in there.

 

 

and most on this board say it's gone to shit recently because it's no longer a conservative circle jerk like it was on shaggy.

Edited February 19 by elfenix

[Neonmoon 38130]

7 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

For every Marjorie Taylor Green there’s a John Fetterman that got elected (I agree he was running against a person with brain damage also, hints my point)..  For every Ted Cruz there’s a AOC

Herein lies the essence of the issue. 

I assume you believe that all 4 of these people are equally bad somehow? Please explain how John Fetterman is comparable to MTG and Ted Cruz is comparable to AOC.

 

[TwiceHorn 31677]

20 hours ago, bolverk said:

To be fair to you, I should've pointed out that most of the age discussion has been in the last couple of pages of the Jon Stewart thread, based on his return to the Daily Show. Also, I want you to know I would like more varied voices in the CR, so please view these responses as an earnest attempt to engage. I'd also like you to know that I do have very serious reservations about Biden's age.

I've also tagged you into a discussion that raises some interesting issues if you care to join.

You can watch the Stewart clips here if you haven't seen them:

 

You can follow the age discussion starting here:

 

Yeah, there's not really anyone that contends that Biden's age is not an issue.

That said, the only other realistic choice is someone equally old, as demented, much stupider to begin with, and completely morally bankrupt.

As a recovering conservative, I truly believe that the GOP "started" the team sports, or, more accurately, GOP-aligned people like Limbaugh.  Limbaugh and his ilk made it popular to "own the libs" in a comedian style devoid of actual commentary on policy.

Now, though, it appears that bothsides engage in team politics.  But I don't think that's really true.  Personally, I am so repulsed by Trump, and even more repulsed by the lack of spine evidenced by more mainstream Republicans in standing up to him and repudiating his ridiculousness, that I am reflexive in reacting adversely to anyone who tries to parrot any of their "lines."  That probably means that a person advocating that sort of "policy" is going to have to do a better job advocating and supporting with evidence anything they say than someone advocating the opposing policy.  

I have always loathed pandering politicians.  Also ideologues and demagogues unwilling to compromise.  One side has a  surfeit of these right now.

[bolverk 29807]

14 hours ago, Hook1997 said:

The those decisions belong to legislators argument, that was kinda my whole point for both sides?  But to you one side is at fault completely here? For every Marjorie Taylor Green there’s a John Fetterman that got elected (I agree he was running against a person with brain damage also, hints my point)..  For every Ted Cruz there’s a AOC, defend it all you want but come on.. (they are pretty much each side’s opposite)  Hank Johnson thought an island might turn over because a base was too big on one side….  Jamaal Bowmam, Tommy Tuberville, the list goes on.  How people like this on either side get into office is astounding. Yes Trump brought out the worst in blind followers who choose to turn a blind eye to everything but the Democrat reaction to that was to act the same way to an extent. Neither admit flaws at any cost now and when challenged just talk louder about how the other is wrong instead of any actual discussion happening.  Are Trump politics and the hardcores that jump on board worse than anything else right now, sure.  But both parties and all media outlets have adopted the strategy.  So yes in my opinion it’s understandable to not like the direction either has taken.  This whole thread is about CR bring crap..  My whole point is in CR if you bring up any opposing view over half will just call you names and not give a educated answer.   Same with a conservative board right now.  Before a few years ago that wasn’t always the case, there’s a reason most on this board say CR has gone to shit recently.  It’s the same people patting themselves on the back and bitching in unison about views they don’t like, there’s seldom any actual debate on anything going on.  Same for a conservative board I’m sure.  

[mchookem 16514]

Quote

Both parties should not be running either of them but the loudest voices and most extreme run both now.

this sounds like an argument that Biden is who the 'most extreme' left loudly want to run, which is just absolutely, patently untrue in every way. thus withers the 'both sides' argument.

[Guest]

It isn't an argument, and that's the point.  It's the reality that 2 old motherfuckers are the leading candidates.

Let's argue about who's wronger?  Nah, maybe we figure out why we can't do better...

Edited February 20 by slorch

[Celery Man 21026]

A big part of why we can’t do better is how our culture and media landscape require us to entertain morons with stupid equivalencies.

[Neonmoon 38130]

9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

A big part of why we can’t do better is how our culture and media landscape require us to entertain morons with stupid equivalencies.

Bingo

This is literally the problem. It doesn't matter if it's in CR or national politics or anything these days. Limbaugh/InfoWars/FoxNews/Newsmax etc. have successfully made opinions carry the same weight as facts. 

AOC = Ted Cruz

One left the state he represents while the people were freezing to death for an island vacation, and the other FLEW IN to that freezing state (not her own) to help those people. 

But their somehow equivalent thanks to Fox News because one person wants higher wages for poor people and one says Obama is secretly running the Presidency

Same

 

[Hate 20157]

*They’re.

[YGIFS 19453]

Now is not the time for grammar control laws!

I honestly do miss the older incarnations of political debates on this and the old site.  I could chime in about reservations regarding the Affordable Care Act or Energy production during the Obama administration with facts and legit news outlets.  And we could have robust arguments   

that people still don’t acknowledge the  complete ‘coincidence’ that declaring the CR is a cesspool because it doesn’t take their bullshit soundbites as gospel because the bullshit sound bite machine they worship is fascinating to me.  I avoided it for nearly two years because it was annoying as fuck to just read that Trump and every voter of his was a stupid Nazi.  Once again-my prize lack of Imagination.  

But we need more healthy debate more than ever.  I just don’t know what it looks like in the digital world.  In real life, it’s still pretty healthy out there but I have to understand I am fortunate to live in a diverse community with extremely well educated people.  Most of America isn’t like this.  Later today I will have lunch with a very prominent Democrat and the talk with my cousin who has an extremely high up appointment from Gov. Abbott.  And I will learn from all sides.  And then I will sit and wonder what happened to the cordial political discourse I grew up around and why my daughters will never know  what it was like to civilly chat about politics and current events because we fell for a conman gameshow host and got butt-hurt about being called to task about it by history. 

[Celery Man 21026]

24 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

and the talk with my cousin who has an extremely high up appointment from Gov. Abbott.  

[Celery Man 21026]

The information age has allowed for the industrialization of hate and stupidity. And the incentives are all fucked up, and most people are highly defenseless. That’s what has happened.

[Js1 85744]

8 hours ago, mchookem said:

this sounds like an argument that Biden is who the 'most extreme' left loudly want to run, which is just absolutely, patently untrue in every way. thus withers the 'both sides' argument.

The most extreme left runs the Dem party = Clinton, Biden, Biden in 3 consecutive elections

And none for Bernie Sanders, bye

[wildcat09 29453]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:02 PM, Hook1997 said:

hints my point

Maybe just sit this one out.