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Posted
8 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I knew it was just a matter of time before someone made southwest ruin themselves.

It got an “activist investor.”  At this point it’s been stripped of any positive difference to its rivals and is left with only negative: no lounges, no long-haul, no partner airlines, etc. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I knew it was just a matter of time before someone made southwest ruin themselves.

 

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It got an “activist investor.”  At this point it’s been stripped of any positive difference to its rivals and is left with only negative: no lounges, no long-haul, no partner airlines, etc. 

They hadn't really changed or modernized or improved the business or tech since the 90s, they ruined themselves decades ago when they decided to steal from the business to pay out shareholders (who are overwhelmingly execs and board members). If your business plan for the future is a Hail Mary for an outsider to fix everything, then your business was already pretty damn precarious.

Good riddance though. I've missed shows and events because of SWA and their bullshit last minute flight cancellations. I had to fight to even get a refund instead of accepting a flight scheduled for the same day as my return

Edited by Captainant
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Posted

I don’t fly southwest unless absolutely unavoidable.  But I also don’t check bags usually.

 

 Between FAA shenanigans and the general unpleasantness of flying I prefer to drive if it’s within 500 miles.  
 

Alaska airlines is everything Southwest isn’t anymore- cheap, efficient, and no bs.  I like them when I have to fly.

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Posted

I usually try to fly SWA mostly b/c Love is half the distance to me than DFW.  Plus I like using The Parking Spot and it's much more convenient at Love.  

But, yeah, they suck as much as all the other airlines and have for a while. 

Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

I don’t fly southwest unless absolutely unavoidable.  But I also don’t check bags usually.

 

 Between FAA shenanigans and the general unpleasantness of flying I prefer to drive if it’s within 500 miles.  
 

Alaska airlines is everything Southwest isn’t anymore- cheap, efficient, and no bs.  I like them when I have to fly.

Yeah, Alaska has its issues but it's much better than SWA (especially with these major devaluations)... if you're in a market they serve well. For most of this board that's not going to be the case. That said, in my major metro SWA hasn't had "low" fares - or really even competitive - for decades, and they're now a bit player here. Alaska and to some extent Delta have pushed them out, and now they have nothing to differentiate them from anyone else (worse, actually, if you fly more than just once a year to see Aunt Millie).

Edited by flatdawgs
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Posted

Yea I’m familiar with the activist investor. And Idk. I fly southwest a lot. A lot as in I’ve been a list preferred with a companion pass for at least 10 years, maybe closer to 20.

I rarely have issues with them. And their points plan is awesome. I honestly don’t remember the last time I paid for a personal flight, other than when I have to take a different airline.

And when I do have to take a different airline they’re fucking awful.

My last two non southwest flights were Delta. To Detroit for the Michigan game - flight home Sunday. Morning had mechanical issues, deplaned, new plane, then that one had mechanical issues. Had to get on a third fucking plane to get home - 8 hours late. Then last week flew Delta to Minneapolis for a job interview. 8:45 pm flight home on a Monday night because I had something I needed to not miss Tuesday am. Waiting in the terminal to board, whoopisie, the crew timed out. No worries, just be back here at 6:00 am tomorrow for a flight. Except the boarding passes in the Delta app and the printed out ones didn’t show the new date for the flight so TSA wouldn’t let any of us through at 4:30 fucking am. Nice job dickheads.

Last American flight, 45 min flight from San Diego to Phoenix. Whoopsie, crew timed out. Took 8 hours to complete a 45 min flight.

Last united flight, took off late from Fargo and missed connection in Denver to Phoenix. Only option was to route through LA and get home at midnight or fly the next day. Walked down the terminal and got in the next Southwest flight and got home I two hours. And United refused to refund a penny.

Those are literally my last 4 flights on legacy carriers. Total shit show. Except for Allegiant, who flys nonstop from Phoenix to Fargo and they’ve been surprisingly fine, just so long at you understand your $69 ticket will cost $350 when all said and done.

Never once had a crew time out in hundreds of southwest flights. I routinely get the aisle seat in the second row because I get on early. Honestly can’t remember the last time southwest cancelled a flight on me, and at least in my experience they aren’t usually late. And their people are pleasant, not the fucking gargoyles that work for American and United.

Y’all can take your legacy airlines and stick them up your ass. Though I suppose I’m about to have to do the same thing with Southwest.

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Posted
1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

Yea I’m familiar with the activist investor. And Idk. I fly southwest a lot. A lot as in I’ve been a list preferred with a companion pass for at least 10 years, maybe closer to 20.

I rarely have issues with them. And their points plan is awesome. I honestly don’t remember the last time I paid for a personal flight, other than when I have to take a different airline.

And when I do have to take a different airline they’re fucking awful.

My last two non southwest flights were Delta. To Detroit for the Michigan game - flight home Sunday. Morning had mechanical issues, deplaned, new plane, then that one had mechanical issues. Had to get on a third fucking plane to get home - 8 hours late. Then last week flew Delta to Minneapolis for a job interview. 8:45 pm flight home on a Monday night because I had something I needed to not miss Tuesday am. Waiting in the terminal to board, whoopisie, the crew timed out. No worries, just be back here at 6:00 am tomorrow for a flight. Except the boarding passes in the Delta app and the printed out ones didn’t show the new date for the flight so TSA wouldn’t let any of us through at 4:30 fucking am. Nice job dickheads.

Last American flight, 45 min flight from San Diego to Phoenix. Whoopsie, crew timed out. Took 8 hours to complete a 45 min flight.

Last united flight, took off late from Fargo and missed connection in Denver to Phoenix. Only option was to route through LA and get home at midnight or fly the next day. Walked down the terminal and got in the next Southwest flight and got home I two hours. And United refused to refund a penny.

Those are literally my last 4 flights on legacy carriers. Total shit show. Except for Allegiant, who flys nonstop from Phoenix to Fargo and they’ve been surprisingly fine, just so long at you understand your $69 ticket will cost $350 when all said and done.

Never once had a crew time out in hundreds of southwest flights. I routinely get the aisle seat in the second row because I get on early. Honestly can’t remember the last time southwest cancelled a flight on me, and at least in my experience they aren’t usually late. And their people are pleasant, not the fucking gargoyles that work for American and United.

Y’all can take your legacy airlines and stick them up your ass. Though I suppose I’m about to have to do the same thing with Southwest.

I don't know what you are trying to prove. We all have anecdotes with flying. Flying, no matter who you fly with, long enough and you will have a horror story with every carrier.

Southwest sucks. Glad you think it's the least worst of the crap out there, tho.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I don't know what you are trying to prove. We all have anecdotes with flying. Flying, no matter who you fly with, long enough and you will have a horror story with every carrier.

Southwest sucks. Glad you think it's the least worst of the crap out there, tho.

Even with the historical self-inflicted nightmare they had at the end of 2022, SWA is among the top 2-3 on-time performers in the US.  All-in-all, it remains among the most reliable for leaving and getting you to your destination on-time.  But that's literally the only "set apart from the others" factor it has going for it now.

Otherwise, it has become indistinguishable from any other airline (other than the bottom-tier -- I ain't flying Spirit).  So, the way I USED to search for short to medium haul domestic flights was....go to SWA.com, and book my flight.  Now, I go to an aggregator site like Kayak, and find who has the best schedule/route and best fare.  I generally prefer a couple of carriers, but I'll fly United or Delta if they offer the best package (for example).  SWA now just goes into that mix, instead of being my default preference.

I fly around Texas, to California once a year, and to Vegas from time to time - that's 95% of my domestic travel.  American, Alaska, SWA, shit, even Frontier to Denver....they've become interchangeable.

Posted
23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Even with the historical self-inflicted nightmare they had at the end of 2022, SWA is among the top 2-3 on-time performers in the US.  All-in-all, it remains among the most reliable for leaving and getting you to your destination on-time.  But that's literally the only "set apart from the others" factor it has going for it now.

Otherwise, it has become indistinguishable from any other airline (other than the bottom-tier -- I ain't flying Spirit).  So, the way I USED to search for short to medium haul domestic flights was....go to SWA.com, and book my flight.  Now, I go to an aggregator site like Kayak, and find who has the best schedule/route and best fare.  I generally prefer a couple of carriers, but I'll fly United or Delta if they offer the best package (for example).  SWA now just goes into that mix, instead of being my default preference.

I fly around Texas, to California once a year, and to Vegas from time to time - that's 95% of my domestic travel.  American, Alaska, SWA, shit, even Frontier to Denver....they've become interchangeable.

Agreed, if you fly as little as you do, it really doesn't matter and the chance of delay or cancellation is probably about the same in the law of small numbers. 

When you fly 200k miles a year, every week or every other just domestic, it invariably pays to choose the lesser of the evils and lock-in with a single vendor to max out rewards knowing sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes it eats you.

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Posted
Just now, Vegas64 said:

Agreed, if you fly as little as you do, it really doesn't matter and the chance of delay or cancellation is probably about the same in the law of small numbers. 

When you fly 200k miles a year, every week or every other just domestic, it invariably pays to choose the lesser of the evils and lock-in with a single vendor to max out rewards knowing sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes it eats you.

Agreed.  For international flying, we're generally locked in to the BA/AA system because of where our various people are (although sweet lord do I hate Heathrow).  We/the kids fly that enough that it's worth going all-in on their program.

And back when I flew a lot more for work (again, all around Texas, but 40+ flights a year), I was all-in on SWA.  Was regularly A-list preferred, sometimes even earned a Companion Pass.  It all made sense for me based on 1) where and 2) how often I flew, and then 3) SWA was so easy, with a great schedule, cheap fares, and other perks like free bags.

But your point is really the point that ANY airline has to make -- for those of you who fly a LOT (which is an increasingly smaller share of all travelers), it makes sense for you to go all-in with us (whatever carrier has the most flights out of your home airport, usually).  That strategy has a value that is declining, and fast.

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But your point is really the point that ANY airline has to make -- for those of you who fly a LOT (which is an increasingly smaller share of all travelers), it makes sense for you to go all-in with us (whatever carrier has the most flights out of your home airport, usually).  That strategy has a value that is declining, and fast.

And, as road warriors everywhere have been wailing on sites everywhere, the airlines are nerfing the rewards and awards you get per flight/mile/dollar. Used to be quite the hack. Sadly, or happily, depending on your perspective, the level of business travel I saw pre-Covid will never be matched. I'd say at my firm, we are at about 75% there and seems to be the limit of the appetite. 

And I do think about my carbon footprint more in my old age, fwiw.

Edited by Vegas64
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Posted
I don't know what you are trying to prove.


Mostly I was just trying to change minds with my well thought out, lucid, yet highly personal emotional rant. I know it works because otherwise why would we all spend so much time here.
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Posted
6 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

 


Mostly I was just trying to change minds with my well thought out, lucid, yet highly personal emotional rant. I know it works because otherwise why would we all spend so much time here.

 

you-got-me-there-you-got-me-there-guy.png

Posted

Used Expedia to book a night in an Omaha Holiday Inn Express.  Check in lady needed my cc for incidentals and a “service fee” of $11.73.  I was free to not pay it, but she’d hafta kick me out.

I paid her the money and vowed to never stay at a Holiday Inn Express ever again.  #enshittening

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Posted
1 minute ago, Parliament said:

Used Expedia to book a night in an Omaha Holiday Inn Express.  Check in lady needed my cc for incidentals and a “service fee” of $11.73.  I was free to not pay it, but she’d hafta kick me out.

I paid her the money and vowed to never stay at a Holiday Inn Express ever again.  #enshittening

Was it published on Expedia? They must honor the terms of the stay because your contract is with Expedia not with them. Expedia will publish resort fees and other fees due on arrival that they cannot collect. 

I know it's a pain in the ass over 11.73 but I'd contact Expedia and they may go after holiday inn or give you a credit. 

Posted
1 hour ago, immamac said:

Was it published on Expedia? They must honor the terms of the stay because your contract is with Expedia not with them. Expedia will publish resort fees and other fees due on arrival that they cannot collect. 

I know it's a pain in the ass over 11.73 but I'd contact Expedia and they may go after holiday inn or give you a credit. 

Maybe Expedia would do the right thing but there isn't a guarantee these days. I booked an AirBnB for a month and a half in Montana. AirBnB charged me $190 in taxes. Montana doesn't have a sales tax and the hotel tax is for stays less than 30 days. AirBnB charged my card twice - once for the month and once for the half month, but they didn't use that excuse. In fact their excuses made no sense. And if the ticket wasn't resolved same day, you basically had to start over with a new representative because they would close the case. Eventually, I gave up, But, I don't see any way that they were in the right. They just didn't want to do it and I had no way to force them.

Posted

I don't fly often, but when I did, I chose Southwest most of the time, because I liked the free checked bag policy (I don't like hauling shit around airports or fucking around for overhead bin space.)  I also liked their open seating. Now I have zero reason to choose SWA,

 

Posted

And while we talk about enshittening, I'd also like to take this opportunity to complain that ALL airlines have completely fucked up up their service/ticket counter/check-in experience. They have all this counter space for customer service agents, but only put 1 or 2 overworked agents there to handle ticketing & baggage check, when there are literally mobs of people in line needing service.  This is because some executive decided everyone will do all this ticketing and check-in shit electronically, but the real world isn't like that--there are situations and problems that need direct human interaction to resolve.

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Paper_jam said:

And while we talk about enshittening, I'd also like to take this opportunity to complain that ALL airlines have completely fucked up up their service/ticket counter/check-in experience. They have all this counter space for customer service agents, but only put 1 or 2 overworked agents there to handle ticketing & baggage check, when there are literally mobs of people in line needing service.  This is because some executive decided everyone will do all this ticketing and check-in shit electronically, but the real world isn't like that--there are situations and problems that need direct human interaction to resolve.

That's the HEB model. Thirty checkout lanes and only two open during peak hours.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Even if they were right.  Gosh, nothing could be better for humanity than to be told, en masse, "you're completely unnecessary."  Nothing makes people HAPPIER than being....not needed.  Right?

Jesus fuck.  These people are fucking sociopaths, incapable of even grasping what it is to be human, so of COURSE they have no problem bulldozing and destroying the very essence of what it is to be human.  Take all that away, and leave us to....what?  Sit in basements, wallowing in a completely purposeless existence?  And don't give me any bullshit about "no, now you're free to engage in creative pursuits!" -- pursuits of WHAT?  Art?  AI will do all that, too.  Truth?  Why, to what end?  After all, we've already "solved" everything.  And....with what fucking resources?  Are you going to pay us and deliver us food for us providing the service of.....merely existing?  A universal basic income that is indeed "universal," because NOBODY is doing ANYTHING that earns money?

Destroy human purpose and dignity.  And call it a success.  MAdness.

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Posted
30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Even if they were right.  Gosh, nothing could be better for humanity than to be told, en masse, "you're completely unnecessary."  Nothing makes people HAPPIER than being....not needed.  Right?

Jesus fuck.  These people are fucking sociopaths, incapable of even grasping what it is to be human, so of COURSE they have no problem bulldozing and destroying the very essence of what it is to be human.  Take all that away, and leave us to....what?  Sit in basements, wallowing in a completely purposeless existence?  And don't give me any bullshit about "no, now you're free to engage in creative pursuits!" -- pursuits of WHAT?  Art?  AI will do all that, too.  Truth?  Why, to what end?  After all, we've already "solved" everything.  And....with what fucking resources?  Are you going to pay us and deliver us food for us providing the service of.....merely existing?  A universal basic income that is indeed "universal," because NOBODY is doing ANYTHING that earns money?

Destroy human purpose and dignity.  And call it a success.  MAdness.

there is lots of truth here man. 

Cool story alert - I worked for an AI startup last year. My mate was CEO, a guy I quite liked. Younger, like 28 or 30ish. 6 months in I was a bit lost and unsure exactly where we were going. Where we helping X industry do this? Helping this person do this or that? Were we just replacing people? I am not a luddite at all and genuinely think there is a place for AI in business and other aspects of our lives. However, just watching what got the tech bros really going was alarming. Paraphrasing roughly here - It wasn't enabling or making things better, it was getting rid of people and head count, having unfair advantages, getting rid of lazy people, not depending on people who make mistakes. It was as if these imaginary, poorly performing people were in the room with us at all times. 

Then very shortly after, and unsurprisingly, came the leadership ignoring input from customers, even in some circumstances just calling them dumb, and treating them like they are expendable, etc. Complete disregard for fundamental business acumen and general practices. 

Complete detachment from human achievement, shared suffering, shared existence and plight, just nothing to latch onto except short bursts of attention. 

anyway, that shit ain't healthy. Shared human experience and compassion for others, even if just in our own little circle, is what empowers us to think laterally and care about injustice for other people and other communities. Empathy is not a weakness. 

that's ll be $9.95. 

oh and happy no nuke friday. its a beautiful day down this way

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Posted
4 hours ago, staboner said:

there is lots of truth here man. 

Cool story alert - I worked for an AI startup last year. My mate was CEO, a guy I quite liked. Younger, like 28 or 30ish. 6 months in I was a bit lost and unsure exactly where we were going. Where we helping X industry do this? Helping this person do this or that? Were we just replacing people? I am not a luddite at all and genuinely think there is a place for AI in business and other aspects of our lives. However, just watching what got the tech bros really going was alarming. Paraphrasing roughly here - It wasn't enabling or making things better, it was getting rid of people and head count, having unfair advantages, getting rid of lazy people, not depending on people who make mistakes. It was as if these imaginary, poorly performing people were in the room with us at all times. 

Then very shortly after, and unsurprisingly, came the leadership ignoring input from customers, even in some circumstances just calling them dumb, and treating them like they are expendable, etc. Complete disregard for fundamental business acumen and general practices. 

Complete detachment from human achievement, shared suffering, shared existence and plight, just nothing to latch onto except short bursts of attention. 

anyway, that shit ain't healthy. Shared human experience and compassion for others, even if just in our own little circle, is what empowers us to think laterally and care about injustice for other people and other communities. Empathy is not a weakness. 

that's ll be $9.95. 

oh and happy no nuke friday. its a beautiful day down this way

You had ChatGPT write this didn’t you 

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Posted (edited)

Can we talk about power cords? Electronics these days come with power cords that are less than six inches long. I've got a new watch and headphones that have to charge on the floor, because I don't have an outlet close enough to a table anywhere in the house that these power cords for ants can reach.

And they don't come with a USB wall charger. I'm not going to charge every damn piece of electronics through my computer. Just toss in a damn wall converter.

Old man rant over.

Edited by HornOnTheBayou
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, tbone_ said:

But self checkout is so much fun

Self checkout is a fucking win.
1. I don't have to talk to anyone, unless I am purchasing alcohol, which is rare at my grocer.
2. I bag things the way they go in my house, or prioritized by stability within said bag.
3. I am way the fuck faster than they are
4. I am more accurate than they are
5. There is very rarely a wait, so I don't have to wait on people digging for change, writing a check, or acting like they are applying for a mortgage.
6. I don't have to talk to anyone

Edited by Iceman
Posted
1 minute ago, Iceman said:

Self checkout is a fucking win.
1. I don't have to talk to anyone, unless I am purchasing alcohol, which is rare at my grocer.
2. I bag things the way they go in my house, or prioritized by stability within said bag.
3. I am way the fuck faster than they are
4. I am more accurate than they are
5. I don't have to talk to anyone

Lotions and oils in one bag, body disposal items in another?

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Posted
13 hours ago, tbone_ said:

But self checkout is so much fun

One of my many talents in life is fucking-up the self-checkout process. Almost every time. 
However as Slorch points out downthread, it is nice because I am usually buying groceries for three different places and can bag them more efficiently. 
But if there’s not a huge line for the checker aisles, I pick them. 

Posted
13 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Bill Gates "predictions" have been more wrong than right but we keep getting clicks for the man who struck it rich with his operating system from 3 decades ago. Maybe technology will catch up to complexities of humans and medicine but the business world is littered with the corpses of technology start ups who thought they could revolutionize healthcare without the slightest clue on the incredible variables within health and illness. AI augmentation to healthcare? Sure. Replacing physicians and nurses in the next 10 years? Lulz. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Iceman said:

Self checkout is a fucking win.
1. I don't have to talk to anyone, unless I am purchasing alcohol, which is rare at my grocer.
2. I bag things the way they go in my house, or prioritized by stability within said bag.
3. I am way the fuck faster than they are
4. I am more accurate than they are
5. There is very rarely a wait, so I don't have to wait on people digging for change, writing a check, or acting like they are applying for a mortgage.
6. I don't have to talk to anyone

Knock yourself out. I think it’s a fucking beating. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Can we talk about power cords? Electronics these days come with power cords that are less than six inches long. I've got a new watch and headphones that have to charge on the floor, because I don't have an outlet close enough to a table anywhere in the house that these power cords for ants can reach.

And they don't come with a USB wall charger. I'm not going to charge every damn piece of electronics through my computer. Just toss in a damn wall converter.

Old man rant over.

i have this inside the night stand with a short extension cord running to the outlet just behind.

A2667113_TD01_V1_1_2878x.thumb.webp.f947a0fe18701d85acd427436f0a42c1.webp

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Posted
1 hour ago, Newdoc said:

Bill Gates "predictions" have been more wrong than right but we keep getting clicks for the man who struck it rich with his operating system from 3 decades ago. Maybe technology will catch up to complexities of humans and medicine but the business world is littered with the corpses of technology start ups who thought they could revolutionize healthcare without the slightest clue on the incredible variables within health and illness. AI augmentation to healthcare? Sure. Replacing physicians and nurses in the next 10 years? Lulz. 

We have to get to the point where AI has it's first original thought for any of this to even be possible. Still haven't gotten there. AI is still just a fancy computational source. Still need humans to do the thinking and feed it parameters. 

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Posted
16 hours ago, Paper_jam said:

I don't fly often, but when I did, I chose Southwest most of the time, because I liked the free checked bag policy (I don't like hauling shit around airports or fucking around for overhead bin space.)  I also liked their open seating. Now I have zero reason to choose SWA,

 

Rookie mistake.  Never ever check a bag if you can help it. Just my 2cents.  I fly weekly and have so for 25 years.  You lose a lot of flexibility when delays or standby comes in to play.  If you voluntarily switch flights (in the case of most airlines) they are not obligated to get your bag on your "new" flight.  Meeting ends early, you want to try and grab an earlier flight...your bag is not guaranteed to make it.  Flight delayed, you want to grab a quick 1 way on a different carrier... you lose that flexibility as you dont have your bag on you.  Not to mention all the other myriad of travel issues mentioned upthread.  If you dont have your bag on you, that brings in all kind of issues.  There are really good travel bags today vs 20 years ago where you arent pulling it so much as walking beside it.

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Posted
4 hours ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

Can we talk about power cords? Electronics these days come with power cords that are less than six inches long. I've got a new watch and headphones that have to charge on the floor, because I don't have an outlet close enough to a table anywhere in the house that these power cords for ants can reach.

And they don't come with a USB wall charger. I'm not going to charge every damn piece of electronics through my computer. Just toss in a damn wall converter.

Old man rant over.

I found a set of lamps for my nightstands that have a power outlet and two USB ports in the base.

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Posted
On 3/28/2025 at 7:23 PM, HornOnTheBayou said:

Can we talk about power cords? Electronics these days come with power cords that are less than six inches long. I've got a new watch and headphones that have to charge on the floor, because I don't have an outlet close enough to a table anywhere in the house that these power cords for ants can reach.

And they don't come with a USB wall charger. I'm not going to charge every damn piece of electronics through my computer. Just toss in a damn wall converter.

Old man rant over.

There are many many variations of this sort of thing. I have a few around the house. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CM6V5GL2/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

Posted
On 3/28/2025 at 10:48 AM, Ghost of NMAS said:

I found a set of lamps for my nightstands that have a power outlet and two USB ports in the base.

Same. I also run an Anker hub on my desk. Headphones and shit.

 

Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

You’re not getting paid to bag your dog’s shit either, but you do it

If I had a dog.  Besides, you sign up for that responsibility when you get a dog. 

Edited by Fudge Nuggets

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