Cowboys v Lions

[Zeus 5943]

6 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I think we need to have 7 press conferences to have the ref union address these items

first 5 are the non holding calls on Parsons

6th is the tripping call that wasn't.

7th is the preferred number of players who will talk to the ref about who is eligible, what tone and decibel level they should discuss such eligibility

and then we can move on.

Bingo

All the haters and mouth breathers going ape about the call in the end, missing the entire game was setup for Dallas to win and not cover the spread. They had to do that by fucking Parsons the whole game. 
 

Reminds me of the Houston game. I went to that game, all the fans bitching about the bad spot at the end. Then watched the playback, announcers bitching about that blown spot call after the game. Meanwhile there’s 2-3 holds they didn’t call on Houston every single play lol. 

[Zeus 5943]

8 hours ago, Minute Bull said:

Campbell told the refs at halftime they would run this very 2 point play if given the opportunity and exactly who would be eligible (Decker).  And the shithead douche incompetent fucking jack hole ref still fucked it up and now won’t own it.

this fucker has fucked up numerous times and needs to be fired post-haste.

Oh you are supposed to report before the game??

Why didn’t he just report before the play?

Why did the Lyings just tell the ref they fucked it up when they heard #70 being announced as reported eligible?

[Guest]

I'm also interested in why social media is abuzz with photos of the Lions OL players reporting to the refs, but there are virtually no conversations/ overhead shots about the actual formation on the play.  Seems pertinent, no?

[Eastwood 4394]

Two people can't report. They went up as a group of 3 to try to create confusion in the Dallas D. 70 claims he didn't say anything, so I bet the ref just picked the guy and declared him as the eligible receiver. Not the right way to handle it, but the Lions should also be aware of the rules.

None of this is on Dallas, btw. I always get a kick out of other teams screwing something up, getting called on it, and it is always somehow Dallas's fault.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Eastwood

[Hard Times 296]

I don't know why everyone is whinning so much about the 2 pt conversion when it's irrelevant. Even with the 2 pt conversion there's 23 seconds left. Dallas only has to get 12 yards and Aubrey kicks an 80 yard field goal to win it.

[LTtxfan 48928]

If Ref doesn't tell Cowboys that 68 has reported, then no one on Dallas defense covers him.

Acting like the Lions ran some miracle 2pt play when the Dallas defense is not gonna cover the guy anyway is hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂

Edited December 31, 2023 by LTtxfan
typo

[Austin 39]

The biggest winner is McCarthy since nobody is talking about his insane decision to throw deep on second down and stopping the clock after an incompletion.

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

20 minutes ago, slorch said:

I'm also interested in why social media is abuzz with photos of the Lions OL players reporting to the refs, but there are virtually no conversations/ overhead shots about the actual formation on the play.  Seems pertinent, no?

If the official doesn’t botch the eligible player call then the formation is legal. 

[LTtxfan 48928]

2 minutes ago, Austin said:

The biggest winner is McCarthy since nobody is talking about his insane decision to throw deep on second down and stopping the clock after an incompletion.

Aikman was critical of McCarthy's dumb decision during the Lions final TD drive -- terrible clock management.

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If the official doesn’t botch the eligible player call then the formation is legal. 

Then the white hat's comments after the game need to be addressed by the League.

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2023/12/nfls-explanation-contradicts-lions-side-of-questionable-finish-in-dallas.html

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by slorch

[Hard Times 296]

6 minutes ago, Austin said:

The biggest winner is McCarthy since nobody is talking about his insane decision to throw deep on second down and stopping the clock after an incompletion.

The one coach that can actually make Jumbo Fisher and Charlie Strong look smart. He shoulda been fired on the spot.

[Pato del Muerto 52322]

If 68 wasn’t eligible and caught the pass, wasn’t he an ineligible man downfield?  Shouldn’t that be flagged as well as illegal formation?

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

8 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

You're strangely upset about this. For the record I think the ref screwed up but that his mistake was more than partially caused by the Lions attempting some confusing misdirection that was totally pointless. The Lions screwed themselves by being idiots and creating a confusing situation that has zero potential benefit (the referee tells the defense who is reporting eligible) and a pretty severe risk that came to fruition. 

Furthermore the referee's mistake could also very well be why the first two point attempt was successful. Because the ref only told the Dallas defense that 70 was reporting eligible that meant to them that 68 was ineligible. There's no reason to cover an ineligible receiver. 

i think this is precisely what happened.  campbell added the 3rd-lineman wrinkle and the refs got confused and gave dallas bad data.

this situation should result in a rule that eligible-reporting linemen trigger a timeout so refs can huddle, be on same page and announce the reporting to the entire stadium.

allowed once per half on a conversion or field goal attempt.  it will slow the game down.  just like allowing defensive subs to match hurry-up offenses.

+++

comedy value: aggy campbell emrbroiled in controversy about COVER or UNCOVER

[Trey3216 15325]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If 68 wasn’t eligible and caught the pass, wasn’t he an ineligible man downfield?  Shouldn’t that be flagged as well as illegal formation?

Yes.   Not to mention that both tackles were uncovered on the line and both cannot be eligible, so it was illegal formation regardless.  

[Beau Vine 53965]

[statsman 5406]

I got into the thread late. Just wanted to mention- damn, Bob Lilly looked great, right?

He is one of the amazing physical specimens this state has produced, like Young, Campbell and Nobis. Not 99% of the general population, but 99% of all conference player population 

[ITHorn 797]

1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

 

Given those implications, it makes Campbell coaching that game like a Madden player who discovered meth even crazier. Nobody will talk about the mistakes he made all night. Much easier to go after McCarthy (to be fair he was probably even worse at points). 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

33 minutes ago, slorch said:

Then the white hat's comments after the game need to be addressed by the League.

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2023/12/nfls-explanation-contradicts-lions-side-of-questionable-finish-in-dallas.html

 

That's what we've been saying the entire time! 

[MIkeHoncho 1894]

Disclaimer:  I didn't see the game and ultimately don't care because it is NFL.   However,  aggy coach trying to be sneaky by having multiple linemen go chat with the official with only 1 declaring is some bush league pop-warner bullshit.   <hey, let's have the entire o-line surround the ref to confuse the defense, hee hee hee, that'll get 'em>.   

NFL should make it a rule that if an ineligible player is going to declare, only that player can approach the ref, and he has to hold a hand up until the ref speaks to the defensive captain.   

Line up and play the fucking game.   /old man rant over

[hookemATL 11596]

So they had two more shots at the conversion AFTER the call and didn’t get in?  Seems like they had their chance, three times, and didn’t convert. That’s different than having the points taken away and then not having another shot at it.  

Campbell put his money on the refs being competent, even after seeing them give out a phantom tripping call moments prior. Seems like in this world, Campbell got cute with trying to confuse and send different guys to “report” to the official as a bit of subterfuge/gamesmanship and the official (likely a person that struggles to chew gum and walk at same time) can’t handle three people talking to him at the same time leading to him fucking up who was/wasn’t eligible.

In summation, an Aggy outsmarted himself and a mongoloid ref did what mongoloids do and we end up with a big old bowl of shit and cum and anger to dig through postgame. THE ARISTOCRATS!!!

[Sgt Hulk 13637]

Hell hath no fury like that is social media crybabies when Dallas wins 

[LTtxfan 48928]

2 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

 

 

Definitely a lot on the line... here's full tweet

 

[Sgt Hulk 13637]

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

 

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i think this is precisely what happened.  campbell added the 3rd-lineman wrinkle and the refs got confused and gave dallas bad data.

this situation should result in a rule that eligible-reporting linemen trigger a timeout so refs can huddle, be on same page and announce the reporting to the entire stadium.

allowed once per half on a conversion or field goal attempt.  it will slow the game down.  just like allowing defensive subs to match hurry-up offenses.

+++

comedy value: aggy campbell emrbroiled in controversy about COVER or UNCOVER

IMO, they should tell the QB(offensive captain) who is eligible and tell the D(def captain).  then the QB can say no its X not Y and prevent his dumbass aggy coach from screwing up the game with his brilliant trickery. then both sides on the field have been informed.

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, statsman said:

I got into the thread late. Just wanted to mention- damn, Bob Lilly looked great, right?

He is one of the amazing physical specimens this state has produced, like Young, Campbell and Nobis. Not 99% of the general population, but 99% of all conference player population 

He ain't Mr. Cowboy for nothin'.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

9 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

You're strangely upset about this. For the record I think the ref screwed up but that his mistake was more than partially caused by the Lions attempting some confusing misdirection that was totally pointless. The Lions screwed themselves by being idiots and creating a confusing situation that has zero potential benefit (the referee tells the defense who is reporting eligible) and a pretty severe risk that came to fruition. 

Furthermore the referee's mistake could also very well be why the first two point attempt was successful. Because the ref only told the Dallas defense that 70 was reporting eligible that meant to them that 68 was ineligible. There's no reason to cover an ineligible receiver. 

A lot is being made about the bolded point, but numerous former players have said that defensive players often ignore or miss the specifics of what the refs tell them in terms of ineligibility or eligibility of linemen prior to each play. This is just the sort of routine interaction that can get easily overlooked by players in the moment. So the idea that Campbell's attempt to fool them offered 0 benefit is wrong. They're not playing a sterile environment where hearing is at an optimum, and additionally, half of the players are just paying attention to who does and doesnt come on the field so there was obviously a purpose in Campbell attempting to cause confusion. He knows how little attention players typically pay to these sorts of machinations. He even went so far as to go over the mechanics of this with the refs prior to the game so that they would get it right, and this trash crew still got it wrong. All that being said, the tripping call was a 30 yard penalty that kept Detroit in the game just as much, if not more, than McCarthy's game management antics. So ultimately it all came out in the wash and the right team won in the end. 

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

Yes.   Not to mention that both tackles were uncovered on the line and both cannot be eligible, so it was illegal formation regardless.  

agreed.  it really looked like the WR on the right was not covering 58 the tackle and was at least a yard off the LOS.  70 didn't even need to run at the ref, he was inside 58

[dcar00 14023]

2 hours ago, Zeus said:

Yep

Don’t they announce this shit too?

Seems you need to announce it so the coaches know and can substitute accordingly. 
 

Then if the refs “get it wrong” announcing it you can say hey that’s wrong #68 is eligible he’s the tackle we are sneaking out for a pass and correct them

I think Goff said he heard them announce 70.  This is why I think the ref should go to the QB and tell him who declared eligible before he goes to the D. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

9 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I think we need to have 7 press conferences to have the ref union address these items

first 5 are the non holding calls on Parsons

6th is the tripping call that wasn't.

7th is the preferred number of players who will talk to the ref about who is eligible, what tone and decibel level they should discuss such eligibility

and then we can move on.

Holding calls aren't called as much as many would like to believe. I heard a stat the other day that TJ Watt has only had one holding call made for him in the last 2 and half years. Star pass rushers simply don't get holding called in their favor. If anything their effectiveness as pass rushers hurts them when it comes to getting holding calls in their favor. 

['stache 21743]

Why do three linemen approach the official? Why does Campbell feel the need to supposedly tell the official before the game and at halftime that he’s going to have a lineman report as eligible? Did he tell the ref “I’m going to send three guys to you and one will report as eligible?” Of course not, and if he tell the ref “I’m going to have 68 report as eligible” the ref thinks uh, ok, just have him approach and report.

They tried to trick both the refs and the defense. They fucked it up. Everyone knows the refs are struggling this year. Campbell tries to take advantage by having three guys approach unnecessarily. Just send 68 to report and it gets done. Seriously. Fuck Campbell and fuck the haters.

Edited December 31, 2023 by 'stache

[Frank The Tank 1492]

11 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

A lot is being made about the bolded point, but numerous former players have said that defensive players often ignore or miss the specifics of what the refs tell them in terms of ineligibility or eligibility of linemen prior to each play. This is just the sort of routine interaction that can get easily overlooked by players in the moment. So the idea that Campbell's attempt to fool them offered 0 benefit is wrong. They're not playing a sterile environment where hearing is at an optimum, and additionally, half of the players are just paying attention to who does and doesnt come on the field so there was obviously a purpose in Campbell attempting to cause confusion. He knows how little attention players typically pay to these sorts of machinations. He even went so far as to go over the mechanics of this with the refs prior to the game so that they would get it right, and this trash crew still got it wrong. All that being said, the tripping call was a 30 yard penalty that kept Detroit in the game just as much, if not more, than McCarthy's game management antics. So ultimately it all came out in the wash and the right team won in the end. 

But nobody ever announced to the defense that 68 was an eligible receiver, therefore there was no reason to cover him and why he was wide open to catch a pass. You can’t just assume that if the defense had been told 68 was eligible, that the same result would have occurred. 

[dcar00 14023]

Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

Holding calls aren't called as much as many would like to believe. I heard a stat the other day that TJ Watt has only had one holding call made for him in the last 2 and half years. Star pass rushers simply don't get holding called in their favor. If anything their effectiveness as pass rushers hurts them when it comes to getting holding calls in their favor. 

agreed. the NFL wants to protect the QB.  that is a crazy stat on Watt if true.

[Valmy77 13092]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

agreed. the NFL wants to protect the QB. 

And despite everything half the teams are on their 2nd or 3rd QB by now.

[Huckleberry 32685]

17 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

A lot is being made about the bolded point, but numerous former players have said that defensive players often ignore or miss the specifics of what the refs tell them in terms of ineligibility or eligibility of linemen prior to each play. This is just the sort of routine interaction that can get easily overlooked by players in the moment. So the idea that Campbell's attempt to fool them offered 0 benefit is wrong. They're not playing a sterile environment where hearing is at an optimum, and additionally, half of the players are just paying attention to who does and doesnt come on the field so there was obviously a purpose in Campbell attempting to cause confusion. He knows how little attention players typically pay to these sorts of machinations. He even went so far as to go over the mechanics of this with the refs prior to the game so that they would get it right, and this trash crew still got it wrong. All that being said, the tripping call was a 30 yard penalty that kept Detroit in the game just as much, if not more, than McCarthy's game management antics. So ultimately it all came out in the wash and the right team won in the end. 

This explanation makes even less sense. So the theory is that the defenders aren't paying enough attention to hear what is being said to their face but they can be tricked because they're paying enough attention to player movement by the other team. No, that's still incredibly stupid and pointless. 

[dcar00 14023]

1 minute ago, &#x27;stache said:

Why do three linemen approach the official? Why does Campbell feel the need to supposedly tell the official before the game and at halftime that he’s going to have a lineman report as eligible? Did he tell the ref “I’m going to send three guys to you and one will report as eligible?” Of course not, and if he tell the ref “I’m going to have 68 lineman report as eligible” the ref thinks uh, ok, just have him approach and report.

They tried to trick both the refs and the defense. They fucked it up. Everyone knows the refs are struggling this year. Campbell tries to take advantage by having three guys approach unnecessarily. Just send 68 to report and it gets done. Seriously. Fuck Campbell and fuck the haters.

if he told him my guess is he told them 68 will report and 70 will come running on acting like he will report(as he did a couple of times in the game already) but he won't report.

if they report 68 the cowboys probably cover him.  multiple D players pointed out to the ref that 68 wasn't the eligible number.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Just now, dcar00 said:

agreed. the NFL wants to protect the QB.  that is a crazy stat on Watt if true.

I need to find it, but Bob mentioned it following either the Dolphins or Bills game when people were complaining about Parsons not getting any calls. He listed off like 5 different pass rushers and there were a surprisingly small numbers of holding calls that went in their favor over the time period examined. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This explanation makes even less sense. So the theory is that the defenders aren't paying enough attention to hear what is being said to their face but they can be tricked because they're paying enough attention to player movement by the other team. No, that's still incredibly stupid and pointless. 

Yeah it's totally surprising that defensive players pay much more attention to the personnel packages the opposing offenses send onto the field than the 45 different times over the course of a game that the refs tell them about player eligibility.

You're being extraordinarily obtuse here. 

 

Go watch the video the ref is only talking to at most 3 or 4 players when he goes to them the other 7 or 8 players arent even paying attention. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Catdaddyhorn

['stache 21743]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

if he told him my guess is he told them 68 will report and 70 will come running on acting like he will report(as he did a couple of times in the game already) but he won't report.

if they report 68 the cowboys probably cover him.  multiple D players pointed out to the ref that 68 wasn't the eligible number.

“Hey ref, later in the game we might use you to cause confusion.” I’d ignore his ass too. If you want a player to report then have him approach and report. If I’m a ref I’m not going out of my way to help him cause confusion. Fuck that meathead fuck.

[dcar00 14023]

2 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Yeah it's totally surprising that defensive players pay much more attention to the personnel packages the opposing offenses send onto the field than the 45 different times over the course of a game that the refs tell them about player eligibility.

You're being extraordinarily obtuse here. 

huh?  the lineman eligible probably happens 3 or 4 times a game.  and it wasn't really a personnel "package".  58 and 68 were already on the field.  70 came running on late(of course for more aggy HC trickery).

[dcar00 14023]

ha. too funny.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39215679/officials-missed-tripping-call-lions-controversial-penalty

 

['stache 21743]

Also, I think the refs have been really bad, but I don’t think they are being biased towards any team or lying about their interpretations. That’s a federal fucking crime, see Tim Donaghy. I sure as fuck think Campbell and his players who pre planned a scheme to trick the defense using the ref as a pawn are lying about the play when it didn’t work. 

[Huckleberry 32685]

9 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Yeah it's totally surprising that defensive players pay much more attention to the personnel packages the opposing offenses send onto the field than the 45 different times over the course of a game that the refs tell them about player eligibility.

You're being extraordinarily obtuse here. 

 

Go watch the video the ref is only talking to at most 3 or 4 players when he goes to them the other 7 or 8 players arent even paying attention. 

I'm not the one being obtuse. The entire theory you're describing depends on the defensive players paying a lot of attention to one guy but not the other two guys going up to the ref and then also ignoring what the ref says to them. No matter what the Lions do theatrically it all depends on the Cowboys not paying attention to what the ref says. No matter how you try to describe it, the misdirection by the Lions was completely pointless. 

It's probably even likely that not all the Cowboys paid attention to what the ref told them. But that has nothing to do with the Lions having 3 guys go to the ref and creating confusion over there. They wouldn't have listened to the ref either way. The only thing their theatrics could have possibly caused was for them or the ref to screw up the eligibility reporting. And that's what happened. The Cowboys would have paid attention or not paid attention to the ref either way. 

Furthermore your claim that the Cowboys would be paying more attention to personnel packages defeats your own argument. The Lions still had 6 offensive linemen in the game. The only way to run a legal play with that personnel package is for one of them to be eligible. 70 lined up in an ineligible position so it can't be him. The Lions can't hide that. 

[dcar00 14023]

8 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I'm not the one being obtuse. The entire theory you're describing depends on the defensive players paying a lot of attention to one guy but not the other two guys going up to the ref and then also ignoring what the ref says to them. No matter what the Lions do theatrically it all depends on the Cowboys not paying attention to what the ref says. No matter how you try to describe it, the misdirection by the Lions was completely pointless. 

It's probably even likely that not all the Cowboys paid attention to what the ref told them. But that has nothing to do with the Lions having 3 guys go to the ref and creating confusion over there. They wouldn't have listened to the ref either way. The only thing their theatrics could have possibly caused was for them or the ref to screw up the eligibility reporting. And that's what happened. The Cowboys would have paid attention or not paid attention to the ref either way. 

Furthermore your claim that the Cowboys would be paying more attention to personnel packages defeats your own argument. The Lions still had 6 offensive linemen in the game. The only way to run a legal play with that personnel package is for one of them to be eligible. 70 lined up in an ineligible position so it can't be him. The Lions can't hide that. 

I think that is why they had 68 AND 58 go to the ref.  They wanted to try to confuse Dallas as to which outside tackle was eligible.  they ran 70 on to add to it and because he had done the same thing previously in the game.

the ref can only report one Lineman number eligible so to your point, it is really all.....pointless.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

I'm also interested in why social media is abuzz with photos of the Lions OL players reporting to the refs, but there are virtually no conversations/ overhead shots about the actual formation on the play.  Seems pertinent, no?

I guess the argument is that 70 being declared eligible and then lining up as a guard and covered up makes it an illegal formation, but as far as the WR next to 68 he isn't covering up 68. Im not clear on the rules though. so 70 being declared as elgibile and then lining up as a guard may not mean anything. Here's a shot of the WR next to 68 though:

 

https://x.com/SportsSturm/status/1741333825014087755?s=20 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

The formation is completely legal if 68 is reported eligible. 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

Worth a watch. 

 

[JGrayDBU 334]

Bob Lilly and Roger appear to not age hardly at all.  I didn't see them walk, though.  I can't believe Lilly walks well, but I guess Roger still has his thanksgiving flag football game?

 

I remember years ago when Roger was a guest on the ticket.  They asked him his secret, because at that time he was very active.  He said it was simple, he breaks a sweat every day. That man is almost as old as my mother, and looked that good?

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I'm not the one being obtuse. The entire theory you're describing depends on the defensive players paying a lot of attention to one guy but not the other two guys going up to the ref and then also ignoring what the ref says to them. No matter what the Lions do theatrically it all depends on the Cowboys not paying attention to what the ref says. No matter how you try to describe it, the misdirection by the Lions was completely pointless. 

It's probably even likely that not all the Cowboys paid attention to what the ref told them. But that has nothing to do with the Lions having 3 guys go to the ref and creating confusion over there. They wouldn't have listened to the ref either way. The only thing their theatrics could have possibly caused was for them or the ref to screw up the eligibility reporting. And that's what happened. The Cowboys would have paid attention or not paid attention to the ref either way. 

Furthermore your claim that the Cowboys would be paying more attention to personnel packages defeats your own argument. The Lions still had 6 offensive linemen in the game. The only way to run a legal play with that personnel package is for one of them to be eligible. 70 lined up in an ineligible position so it can't be him. The Lions can't hide that. 

Your argument is that Campbell is daft and has no feel for the NFL and the routine behavior of the players who make up the league. And that his endeavor to potentially cause confusion or trick 1 player out of the 11 on defense was futile because the refs are going to tell them who is eligible anyway. You of course know better than a man who has spent the last 20+ years in the profession. Why does anyone attempt to cause confusion ever? What's up with all this new age pre-snap motion? I mean the players all know their assignments. Why attempt to lull players into routine plays and then run a counter to that play? I mean the players are incapable of being tricked. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

 

http://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1741507905034002631?s=20