Cowboys v Lions

[Captain Ron 12,789]

11 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

"Detroit should have corrected the ref's mistake" is not a reasonable point to be made. 

I don't give a shit about Detroit or Dallas, no dog in this fight. The ref fucked up, and we should all embrace refs getting all the blame for fucking up. 

I think the ref screwed up and Dallas benefitted. AWESOME. 

I won’t let Detroit off the hook though because an announcement was made, they had a chance to correct the mistake and didn’t, that’s on them.

In the end, the game’s over, Dallas won and this controversy?

 

[kingkoopa6 8,305]

Bruh. Aubrey was gonna bang in a 70 yarder for the win anyway. 

would have been dope to see too tho. 
 

HE IS HIM

[Hank Kingsley 20,635]

1 minute ago, Captain Ron said:

I think the ref screwed up and Dallas benefitted. AWESOME. 

I won’t let Detroit off the hook though because an announcement was made, they had a chance to correct the mistake and didn’t, that’s on them.

In the end, the game’s over, Dallas won and this controversy?

 

Somebody tell me how this would work. Detroit did not have any timeouts. They are trying to run a play. The crowd is loud. Can they hear the ref reporting the wrong number over the PA? Is some player on the field supposed to walk over to the ref while the play clock is winding down and correct him? Is that even kosher? 

The refs made two massive errors in this game (the bs tripping penalty too). Can we just blame the people who are hired and paid to make the correct calls? 

[Horndog 2,216]

The fact that the refs announced 70 as eligible is proof that the deception worked as intended.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Horndog

[Patrick Bateman 3,903]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Why do three linemen approach the official? Why does Campbell feel the need to supposedly tell the official before the game and at halftime that he’s going to have a lineman report as eligible? Did he tell the ref “I’m going to send three guys to you and one will report as eligible?” Of course not, and if he tell the ref “I’m going to have 68 report as eligible” the ref thinks uh, ok, just have him approach and report.

They tried to trick both the refs and the defense. They fucked it up. Everyone knows the refs are struggling this year. Campbell tries to take advantage by having three guys approach unnecessarily. Just send 68 to report and it gets done. Seriously. Fuck Campbell and fuck the haters.

Campbell tried to be the smartest guy in the room..... and again, it worked sort of.  He definitely confused someone.  But, this is a good point too (and yes I know lots of folks arent fans, but his point remains):

Everyone assumed Dallas got fooled too.  But they didn't, they played it exactly with the information they had at the time.  If they had known 68 was eligible too, who says he's open???

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,322]

22 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Worth a watch. 

 

Surprised rex isn’t more comfortable discussing the tripping call as he is a SME in a related area. 

['stache 21,743]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Campbell tried to be the smartest guy in the room..... and again, it worked sort of.  He definitely confused someone.  But, this is a good point too (and yes I know lots of folks arent fans, but his point remains):

Everyone assumed Dallas got fooled too.  But they didn't, they played it exactly with the information they had at the time.  If they had known 68 was eligible too, who says he's open???

 

And literally none of them react like “hey ref it’s me.” Refs correct shit all the fucking time when asked. They tried to confuse the d and instead confused the ref. That’s on them. Send 68 to report alone. But that wasn’t the point. Tried too hard and fucked it up. Haters delight.

[lilMAC25 3,776]

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

 

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

ha. too funny.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39215679/officials-missed-tripping-call-lions-controversial-penalty

 

It’s worse than you guys know. Here is an IG link. It has all 22 from both ends and other film.

 

It was an egregiously bad call that almost cost Dallas the game.
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1hmpzRAK6V/?igsh=MXI3bnI0eDN2YWti

[dcar00 14,023]

1 minute ago, lilMAC25 said:

 

It’s worse than you guys know. Here is an IG link. It has all 22 from both ends and other film.

 

It was an egregiously bad call that almost cost Dallas the game.
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1hmpzRAK6V/?igsh=MXI3bnI0eDN2YWti

hilarious.  91 is trying to call for a hold(it wasn't) and I bet that is the penalty they thought was going to get called.   

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Definitely a lot on the line... here's full tweet

 

all the more reason to go to overtime

[lilMAC25 3,776]

I thought going for 2 was the right call the first time. After that? Kick the XP.

[Surly Bevo 24,692]

3 minutes ago, lilMAC25 said:

I thought going for 2 was the right call the first time. After that? Kick the XP.

Meathead aggy gonna meathead aggy.  

 

[Trey3216 15,325]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I guess the argument is that 70 being declared eligible and then lining up as a guard and covered up makes it an illegal formation, but as far as the WR next to 68 he isn't covering up 68. Im not clear on the rules though. so 70 being declared as elgibile and then lining up as a guard may not mean anything. Here's a shot of the WR next to 68 though:

 

https://x.com/SportsSturm/status/1741333825014087755?s=20 

The lineman on the other end was uncovered as well and there were only 6 on the LOS, that’s illegal formation.   

Edited December 31, 2023 by Trey3216

[Pato del Muerto 52,322]

Why not have all 3 walk to the ref but have 68 say “68 reporting as eligible”. 
 

may have happened that way but that would make the ref announcing 70 all the more mystifying. 
 

sounds like they conditioned him to 70 being eligible, and guess what can happen with repetition?  If he heard “I’m eligible” and sees 70 jogging up to them, the conditioning may have been triggered. 

[Hermanator 6,916]

3 hours ago, Austin said:

The biggest winner is McCarthy since nobody is talking about his insane decision to throw deep on second down and stopping the clock after an incompletion.

He wasn't throwing deep he was throwing an out to the receiver and when Dak saw it covered and the rush closing ok he smartly threw it out of bounds to avoid a turnover. I don't mind throwing there because first down and you win but would rather something with a higher chance of completion. Problem is the defense is playing run so all the defenders are up tight on the line. It's a rough situation that makes throwing short high completion safe passes difficult if not impossible. 

2 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Exactly. It wasn't the refs invented a tripping call. There was a trip they inexplicably called it on the wrong team. Instead of being 15 yds back forcing the Cowboys into a FG to go up 7 it would have been first down at the 14. Chances are it doesn't come down to any 2 pt tries at the end of the game. 

Biggest fuck ups to me are:

1) refs. Blew this call in a horrific manner then blew the call at the end of the game on the 2 pt try. Just fucked it all up all the way around. 

2) Campbell. After being gifted the botched tripping call he goes ape shit and forgets to coach his team after the 2 pt penalty was called. Kick the extra point and go into overtime is the only reasonable play there. He let himself get so worked up he forgot to coach the next play. 

3) Dan Quinn. How many times do we have to see a coordinator fuck up and change what they're doing in the last 2 minutes when their defense has held an offense in check for almost the entirety of the previous 58 minutes? Play soft, give the offense all sorts of confidence and rhythm throwing it down the field in 1 minute, and then you can't stop them in the red zone. PK did that dumb shit and it bit us against OU. Quinn does it all the time in this situation and it cost the Cowboys the game against Miami on Christmas Eve. Stop fucking doing that. Play your defense like normal and get after the fucker. 

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Your argument is that Campbell is daft and has no feel for the NFL and the routine behavior of the players who make up the league. And that his endeavor to potentially cause confusion or trick 1 player out of the 11 on defense was futile because the refs are going to tell them who is eligible anyway. You of course know better than a man who has spent the last 20+ years in the profession. Why does anyone attempt to cause confusion ever? What's up with all this new age pre-snap motion? I mean the players all know their assignments. Why attempt to lull players into routine plays and then run a counter to that play? I mean the players are incapable of being tricked. 

the competition committee is going to have to look at this

it needs to be crystallized and made instantly transparent or done away with period

NO ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS BASED ON JERSEY NUMBERS

fumblerooski?

no problem

reverse triple option to a lineman?

no problem

FORWARD PASS TO ANYONE WITH JERSEY NUMBERS 50-79 AND 91-00?

NO PERIOD END OF STORY

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Somebody tell me how this would work. Detroit did not have any timeouts. They are trying to run a play. The crowd is loud. Can they hear the ref reporting the wrong number over the PA? Is some player on the field supposed to walk over to the ref while the play clock is winding down and correct him? Is that even kosher? 

The refs made two massive errors in this game (the bs tripping penalty too). Can we just blame the people who are hired and paid to make the correct calls? 

You want the refs to cop 100% of the rap when aggycorch tried to go 13th man and it backfired.

Can we just get Hank Kingsley to admit that aggycorch has some culpability here as well?

[dcar00 14,023]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the competition committee is going to have to look at this

it needs to be crystallized and made instantly transparent or done away with period

NO ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS BASED ON JERSEY NUMBERS

fumblerooski?

no problem

reverse triple option to a lineman?

no problem

FORWARD PASS TO ANYONE WITH JERSEY NUMBERS 50-79 AND 91-00?

NO PERIOD END OF STORY

The QB should tell the ref the number of the eligible lineman and then the ref goes to the D.  Then you don't have the horseshit with 3 OL going to the ref when only one is reporting and it is on the QB to know the play and receivers(which he should).

 

[Huckleberry 32,685]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Your argument is that Campbell is daft and has no feel for the NFL and the routine behavior of the players who make up the league. And that his endeavor to potentially cause confusion or trick 1 player out of the 11 on defense was futile because the refs are going to tell them who is eligible anyway. You of course know better than a man who has spent the last 20+ years in the profession. Why does anyone attempt to cause confusion ever? What's up with all this new age pre-snap motion? I mean the players all know their assignments. Why attempt to lull players into routine plays and then run a counter to that play? I mean the players are incapable of being tricked. 

Your argument appears to be that I'm not a coach so obvious basic logic doesn't apply because of the super complex knowledge that Dan Campbell has. That's absurd. It's also telling that you abandoned logic in this post and has to switch to the you're not a coach argument.

The Lions' misdirection was pointless and counterproductive. I have logic, facts, and what actually happened on my side. You have the assumed magical knowledge of Dan Campbell and his intricate knowledge of the unknowable secrets of NFL players because he's a coach and I'm not on your side. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

11 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the competition committee is going to have to look at this

it needs to be crystallized and made instantly transparent or done away with period

NO ELIGIBLE RECEIVERS BASED ON JERSEY NUMBERS

fumblerooski?

no problem

reverse triple option to a lineman?

no problem

FORWARD PASS TO ANYONE WITH JERSEY NUMBERS 50-79 AND 91-00?

NO PERIOD END OF STORY

According to Rex Ryan coaches routinely have multiple Olinemen go to the referee when reporting eligibility for the explicit purpose of confusing the other team. It's just that as fans we don't typically pay attention to details like this. Regardless, like I sad before, the tripping penalty was a 30 yard penalty and none of this 2pt conversion stuff is even consequential had the refs not totally botched it. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Your argument appears to be that I'm not a coach so obvious basic logic doesn't apply because of the super complex knowledge that Dan Campbell has. That's absurd. It's also telling that you abandoned logic in this post and has to switch to the you're not a coach argument.

The Lions' misdirection was pointless and counterproductive. I have logic, facts, and what actually happened on my side. You have the assumed magical knowledge of Dan Campbell and his intricate knowledge of the unknowable secrets of NFL players because he's a coach and I'm not on your side. 

Dude Rex Ryan in the clip posted earlier mentions that it's routine to send multiple OL over to the ref for the explicit purpose of confusing the other team. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Catdaddyhorn

[aggie08 21,380]

Well, if anyone knows how to run a confusing offense, it's Rex Ryan.

[DixonHur 11,074]

Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

Dude Rex Ryan in the clip posted early mentions that it's routine to send multiple OL over to the ref for the explicit purpose of confusing the other team. 

You're ignoring the audio of the play where the ref clearly states (twice) that 70 reported eligible...not 68.

That's the point at which Detroit should have said something.

[MIkeHoncho 1,894]

The fact that Rex Ryan seems to be most vocally supporting Dan Campbell should tell us something - this is what moron coaches think is good strategery.  

[MIkeHoncho 1,894]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

And despite everything half the teams are on their 2nd or 3rd QB by now.

NFL conditioning QBs out of being football players, so even the smallest contact results in injury.   

[Billy Pilgrim 1,912]

Games end controversially all the time. I’m surprised that this ending continues to be talked about as much as it is. Shitty calls for both teams at the end of the game, in the end, the more deserving team won because if the call against them was made correctly, they likely run the ball 3 straight times and ice the game and the 2 point conversion attempt  doesn’t even occur.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

8 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You're ignoring the audio of the play where the ref clearly states (twice) that 70 reported eligible...not 68.

That's the point at which Detroit should have said something.

Try to follow along here. My only point of contention with @Huckleberry is whether or not Campbell was being dumb in trying to confuse the Cowboys by sending multiple OLs to the ref despite knowing that the ref will tell the other team who the extra eligible player is. Huckleberry thinks it's a pointless endeavor. My only claim is that Campbell probably has a better feel for what is and isn't pointless to do in fooling the other team. Rex Ryan confirms that this is just the sort of thing done for that expressed purpose of potentially confusing the other team. All it takes is 1 of the 11 defenders to fuck up. As far as the ref clearly stating 70 and thus negating the need for the Cowboys to even worry about 68, I agree. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Catdaddyhorn

[Doc Daneeka 6,769]

2 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Try to follow along here. My only point of contention with @Huckleberry is whether or not Campbell was being dumb in trying to confuse the Cowboys by sending multiple OLs to the ref despite knowing that the ref will tell the other team who the extra eligible player is. Huckleberry thinks it's a pointless endeavor. My only claim is that Campbell probably has a better feel for what is and isn't pointless to do in fooling the other team. Rex Ryan confirms that this is just the sort of thing done for that expressed purpose of potentially confusing the other team. All it takes is 1 of the 11 defenders to fuck up. As far as the ref clearly stating 70 and thus negating the need for the Cowboys to even worry about 68, I agree. 

When, in your best case explanation, your plan confused the officials, it was dumb. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

7 minutes ago, MIkeHoncho said:

The fact that Rex Ryan seems to be most vocally supporting Dan Campbell should tell us something - this is what moron coaches think is good strategery.  

LOL, this is actually a good point. Belichick would be much more sophisticated in going about this sort of gamesmanship.

[dcar00 14,023]

9 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Games end controversially all the time. I’m surprised that this ending continues to be talked about as much as it is. Shitty calls for both teams at the end of the game, in the end, the more deserving team won because if the call against them was made correctly, they likely run the ball 3 straight times and ice the game and the 2 point conversion attempt  doesn’t even occur.

uh, Cowboys?  as someone said last night, SVP after the game, if the reverse had happened, would have mentioned the Lions won and Cowboys tried to get too tricky for about 60 seconds and then started talking about WNBA or bad beats.

Edited December 31, 2023 by dcar00

[Valmy77 13,092]

15 minutes ago, MIkeHoncho said:

NFL conditioning QBs out of being football players, so even the smallest contact results in injury.   

Interesting take.

Let's just say I am skeptical this is true.

[DixonHur 11,074]

17 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Try to follow along here. My only point of contention with @Huckleberry is whether or not Campbell was being dumb in trying to confuse the Cowboys by sending multiple OLs to the ref despite knowing that the ref will tell the other team who the extra eligible player is. Huckleberry thinks it's a pointless endeavor. My only claim is that Campbell probably has a better feel for what is and isn't pointless to do in fooling the other team. Rex Ryan confirms that this is just the sort of thing done for that expressed purpose of potentially confusing the other team. All it takes is 1 of the 11 defenders to fuck up. As far as the ref clearly stating 70 and thus negating the need for the Cowboys to even worry about 68, I agree. 

I'm still convinced Detroit outsmarted themselves, which would fit @Huckleberry's view of events.  

One thing that keeps coming up is Decker's quote where he says he did, "exactly what Coach told me to do."  The choice of words is curious since he doesn't explicitly say he reported.  Makes me think Campbell was purposefully trying to be deceptive and got caught in his own trap.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.    

[dcar00 14,023]

maybe the NFL needs this

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

30 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

I’m surprised that this ending continues to be talked about as much as it is.

the rust belt is up in arms today over the league/media conspiracy to keep the lions down / protect dallas / something like that

[Hermanator 6,916]

And idiot prevent style soft coverage takes down the eagles today. Arizona got the ball with 2:28 left in the game at their own 30. Chunk plays down the field they're 1st and goal at the eagles 5 with 41 seconds left. 65 yards in 5 plays. 

Cowboys beat the Washington jerk offs one week from today and get the division and the 2 seed (unless SF blows the last 2 games)

[Huckleberry 32,685]

Cardinals kicked Philly's ass all day and only some mistakes gave the Eagles that lead. I've never seen a team win a half and be down 21-6 like that before, at least that I can remember. Final yardage was probably 150+ in Arizona's favor. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Huckleberry

[Hermanator 6,916]

Funny enough the Cardinals this season now have more quality wins than the Lions. 

[dcar00 14,023]

50 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Interesting take.

Let's just say I am skeptical this is true.

I don't think it is the football shape of the QB but QB's are running more.  it would be interesting how many injuries are "in the pocket/scrambling behind the line" vs. running dowfield.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Funny enough the Cardinals this season now have more quality wins than the Lions. 

Quality wins?  Maybe they'll make into the final polls.

Edited December 31, 2023 by slorch

[Captain Ron 12,789]

3 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Somebody tell me how this would work. Detroit did not have any timeouts. They are trying to run a play. The crowd is loud. Can they hear the ref reporting the wrong number over the PA? Is some player on the field supposed to walk over to the ref while the play clock is winding down and correct him? Is that even kosher? 

The refs made two massive errors in this game (the bs tripping penalty too). Can we just blame the people who are hired and paid to make the correct calls? 

A lot of questions that are already answered by my shirt:

3 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

 

 

[Sgt Hulk 13,637]

Well boys. Just gotta beat Washington and we win the East and keep the non back to back streak alive 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

2 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Well boys. Just gotta beat Washington and we win the East and keep the non back to back streak alive 

Okay I was wondering how the tiebreaker broke down. I wasn't sure whether we still needed the Eagles to lose to the Giants as well. 

[MrBig 5,279]

The next step is obviously bodycams for refs now so we can get all the juicy conversations between them

[Texzilla58 4,715]

the rust belt is up in arms today over the league/media conspiracy to keep the lions down / protect dallas / something like that

The referee told the Cowboys that 70 reported as eligible. No mention of 68. Hence they defended the play differently. They had practiced it as the lions do a lot of tackle eligible plays.

[Drew 2,331]

This is all silly.

Cowboys gets screwed on the same exact play and no one mention of refs or rigged by anyone not a cowboys fan. Even the media locally. It would all be “Cowboys are dumb and choked” and they’d be right.

But Detroit? The great and historic Detroit?

Oh they were jobbed. Not the stupid decisions by their HC.

[lilMAC25 3,776]

46 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Well boys. Just gotta beat Washington and we win the East and keep the non back to back streak alive 

So, ‘Skins by 3?

[Sgt Hulk 13,637]

Just now, lilMAC25 said:

So, ‘Skins by 3?

We all know Dallas always dominates on win and your in or win and the east is your scenarios 🤣

[Horn80 6,074]

2 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the rust belt is up in arms today over the league/media conspiracy to keep the lions down / protect dallas / something like that

It’s good for them.

[Patrick Bateman 3,903]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Okay I was wondering how the tiebreaker broke down. I wasn't sure whether we still needed the Eagles to lose to the Giants as well. 

They have more conference losses.  Commanders played well for a half but ultimately wore down.  It's interesting.  Organizationally they want a loss bad.... helps them with drafting their QB of the future, but Rivera will think (I think he's gone anyway) he's coaching for his job so wouldn't be surprised if they play a good game.  We're way better than them but they seem to always play us tough in MD in December/January historically. 

[Tommy Shelby 188]

22 hours ago, Hermanator said:

He wasn't throwing deep he was throwing an out to the receiver and when Dak saw it covered and the rush closing ok he smartly threw it out of bounds to avoid a turnover. I don't mind throwing there because first down and you win but would rather something with a higher chance of completion. Problem is the defense is playing run so all the defenders are up tight on the line. It's a rough situation that makes throwing short high completion safe passes difficult if not impossible. 

Exactly. It wasn't the refs invented a tripping call. There was a trip they inexplicably called it on the wrong team. Instead of being 15 yds back forcing the Cowboys into a FG to go up 7 it would have been first down at the 14. Chances are it doesn't come down to any 2 pt tries at the end of the game. 

Biggest fuck ups to me are:

1) refs. Blew this call in a horrific manner then blew the call at the end of the game on the 2 pt try. Just fucked it all up all the way around. 

2) Campbell. After being gifted the botched tripping call he goes ape shit and forgets to coach his team after the 2 pt penalty was called. Kick the extra point and go into overtime is the only reasonable play there. He let himself get so worked up he forgot to coach the next play. 

3) Dan Quinn. How many times do we have to see a coordinator fuck up and change what they're doing in the last 2 minutes when their defense has held an offense in check for almost the entirety of the previous 58 minutes? Play soft, give the offense all sorts of confidence and rhythm throwing it down the field in 1 minute, and then you can't stop them in the red zone. PK did that dumb shit and it bit us against OU. Quinn does it all the time in this situation and it cost the Cowboys the game against Miami on Christmas Eve. Stop fucking doing that. Play your defense like normal and get after the fucker. 

How do you forget McCarthy and the clock management at the end of the game?