Joe Biden 2024 thread - Dark Brandon Where Art Thou?

[PRONG HORN 3157]

2 hours ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

biden just completely undid his legacy in my eyes. what a corrupt fuck face 

 

 

You mean it wasn't the endless child fondling or incest that did it for you?

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13541]

There was always a zero percent chance that Biden wasn’t going to pardon Hunter.

what president is going to walk out of the office without protecting their child?

[PRONG HORN 3157]

5 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There was always a zero percent chance that Biden wasn’t going to pardon Hunter.

what president is going to walk out of the office without protecting their child?

 

Joe was protecting himself just as much if not more.  The pardon starts Jan 1, 2014 up to today.  Everything illegal Joe did through Hunter is also protected now.  

 

 

[workswithseed 2140]

People will whip themselves over this, but this is just an obvious move. 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13541]

My main question is why now. It could just be a thought of “sooner rather than later” is preferred politically but I’m not sure I see the benefit. Or who knows, maybe Biden realizes that it’s not impossible that he could pass even within the next 2 months.

was something coming up soon with Hunters case that would put him in prison soon?

as far as why pardon Hunter, Hunter is a POS. I have no doubt he committed more crimes that could easily be discovered in the next few years under a Trump doj. 

[Enchubben 5561]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There was always a zero percent chance that Biden wasn’t going to pardon Hunter.

what president is going to walk out of the office without protecting their child?

This. There was also no need to lie repeatedly about it for months. 

[Willfully Horn 8091]

A pardon carries the presumption of guilt, does it not? If Hunter is guilty, then fucking admit he is guilty, and underscore that accepting a pardon carries an admission of guilt. Drive that message, and roast Hunter while doing so.

[TwiceHorn 31686]

20 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

A pardon carries the presumption of guilt, does it not? If Hunter is guilty, then fucking admit he is guilty, and underscore that accepting a pardon carries an admission of guilt. Drive that message, and roast Hunter while doing so.

No.

As to January 2014, the most common and "default" federal criminal statute of limitations is five years.  The second most common is none, but reserved for homicides, sex crimes, and terrorism.  The third most common is between 5 and 10 years.

So this might seem to be calculated to snag all crimes for which limitations has not run.

Edited 9 hours ago by TwiceHorn

[Willfully Horn 8091]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No.

You’re a bummer. I guess the SCOTUS saying, in 1915, that acceptance of a pardon carries the admission of guilt no longer makes the matter clear. Color me surprised.

[TwiceHorn 31686]

9 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

You’re a bummer. I guess the SCOTUS saying, in 1915, that acceptance of a pardon carries the admission of guilt no longer makes the matter clear. Color me surprised.

Well, it's a classic case of "obiter dictum."  The question presented in Burdick was whether an unconditional pardon needs to be accepted to be effective.  The prior case of Wilson had established that a conditional pardon must be accepted to be effective, that is, the conditions complied with.

So, the question of guilt, implied, assumed or presumed (presumed in law has a special meaning, it's a substitute for proof), was not before the court.

In speculating why a pardon recipient might wish to reject a pardon, and discussing how a pardon differs from other forms of "clemency," that are effective regardless of acceptance,  the court referred to the "imputation" of guilt and that acceptance might constitute admission or confession of guilt.   Wilson had similarly speculated that the conditions of compliance of a conditional pardon might be more onerous than the penalties for the crime, at least in the eyes of the defendant.

So, the language of the court was not needed to reach its holding and is thus "obiter dictum," and may be ignored.

[Ghost of Shag 2652]

7 hours ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

biden just completely undid his legacy in my eyes. what a corrupt fuck face 

 

the rule of law is the most important thing in this country. we must be the party to uphold it 

 

 

Yes. I can read. Go fuck yourself with this hypocrisy. I can type slower if you're Trump dick sucking ignorant ass needs it.

 

 

 

 

 

Internet tough guy right here, fellas.

Edited 8 hours ago by Ghost of Shag

[956 Worldwide 34935]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

My main question is why now. It could just be a thought of “sooner rather than later” is preferred politically but I’m not sure I see the benefit. Or who knows, maybe Biden realizes that it’s not impossible that he could pass even within the next 2 months.

was something coming up soon with Hunters case that would put him in prison soon?

as far as why pardon Hunter, Hunter is a POS. I have no doubt he committed more crimes that could easily be discovered in the next few years under a Trump doj. 

I honestly don’t think that Biden had decided he’d do it until Kamala lost and Trump won.  And I’m ok with that.  Trump spent his entire campaign promising to use all the levers of federal power to get revenge on people.  He named vicious toadies to lead the DOJ, FBI, and IC. All signs point to him doing it. 
 

So yeah, that makes you rethink.  And my only concern here is that Biden won’t go far enough.  He needs to tee up pardons for everyone DJT or a DJT proxy has publicly mentioned for targeting, and likely the entire leadership and select working level people at the FBI, DOJ, and across the IC.

For those who argue in good faith on this (would have once been me) that it’s just playing into his narrative and breaking norms, my response is this:  it’s not a political reality show with no consequences.  More than norms are at stake.  These are real people facing real earth-shattering persecution.  Legal bills alone will ruin you.  Biden has a duty to use every tool to protect people who fulfilled their oath of office with honorable service. He has no obligation to defer to “norms” in the face of an incoming regime that has and will violate all of them. 
 

And to the Trump supporters my response is this: Fuck you. 

[TwiceHorn 31686]

A reminder that Hunter's original plea deal fell apart because it had so many protections in it against a subsequent Trump/GOP administration that it was basically unenforceable.

So, worries about what Trumpco would do to him have been "a thing."  This is the culmination of that thing.

I think, in the absences of that threat, Joe would not have pardoned him.  Joe seems to have learned the lesson of letting an addict suffer consequences and that it is the only way.

[TwiceHorn 31686]

5 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

Joe was protecting himself just as much if not more.  The pardon starts Jan 1, 2014 up to today.  Everything illegal Joe did through Hunter is also protected now.  

 

 

Load of horseshit. 

There's not a shred of evidence Joe committed any crime despite cumhead and gymbo's extensive waste of congressional resources..  Sure, there's tons of evidence that Hunter and other family members tried to cash in on the family name and inferences of influence peddling.  And in light of Trump's people doing the same and successfully enriching themselves, this bothers you now why?

Moreover, assuming Hunter accepts the pardon, he can no longer plead the Fifth in any investigations of Joe.  But, limitations has passed on most crimes Joe could be charged with, if there was evidence of any.

 

[softlynow 1848]

6 hours ago, David Dennison said:

They clear out leadership yet?

They’ll all be dead by the time Junior is crowned and the cult turns on the dynasty. 

[Balcones 312]

8 hours ago, SquishMitten said:

Also, can we get some preemptive pardons for every woman that needs to get an abortion?

State laws and Federal pardons. How do they work?

[DigglerontheHoof 21283]

9 minutes ago, Balcones said:

State laws and Federal pardons. How do they work?

Your dream of persecuting innocent women is alive and well...you fucking cocksucking cunt. 

[Pam Cummings 9700]

I like how we're still pretending to care about this. It's Joeover who the fuck cares?

[WhatTheBuck 28837]

I said when Joe dropped out of the race that he’d pardon Hunter before Xmas. And it wouldn’t have mattered if Kamala won. Especially after watching all the criminal cohorts and lackeys that Trump pardoned. Wtf does Joe care what anyone says or thinks about it? He wanted to run again and was forced to get out. Rightly or wrongly, that had to hurt. But there was one silver lining. Regardless of the outcome of the election, Hunter would be home for the holidays. It would’ve been no stain on Kamala if she had won the election (and she wouldn’t have to face the dilemma of whether to issue the pardon herself which she definitely couldn’t do as much as she may have wanted to because of all of Trump’s sleazy pardons).

There is no way in hell Trump wouldn’t have done the same. He’s done far worse and he’s just getting warmed up. Just watch how he doles out the pardons in the future. Any Trumper feigning outrage over this is completely full of shit and should be dismissed out of hand. They’re not serious people and can rightly go fuck themselves. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10447]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

My main question is why now. It could just be a thought of “sooner rather than later” is preferred politically but I’m not sure I see the benefit. Or who knows, maybe Biden realizes that it’s not impossible that he could pass even within the next 2 months.

was something coming up soon with Hunters case that would put him in prison soon?

as far as why pardon Hunter, Hunter is a POS. I have no doubt he committed more crimes that could easily be discovered in the next few years under a Trump doj. 

I think now so it's clear he's not trying to hide it. I'm expecting an extremely long list of pardons as he exits and didn't talk of trying to "get one by" etc. it's shitty he did it, but way more shitty that he had to and I can't blame him at all for this one. Trumps team will still go after him to get him to testify on record, so expect anyone and everyone involved with Burmisa to get pardons. Lots of high profile political families involved...(Shocking I know)

[Pig Bellmont 8755]

43 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

There is no way in hell Trump wouldn’t have done the same.

Trump already abused the pardon power to protect his family (Kushner’s dad, who is now named Ambassador lol) and friends (Bannon, Roger Stone, Manafort). The fake outrage over this is so dumb

[Bateshorn 9958]

I’m assuming all the people who are upset about this will be back at 1 pm on January 20 after Trump pardons himself.

[Ghost of Shag 2652]

The rationalizing is easy when it’s your own party that does it.

[immamac 43566]

Imagine caring about US politics until 2028

[deech 2313]

I am as outraged about the Hunter pardon as I am about every fucking abusive Trump pardon that he put together including all those who likely exchanged money, political favor, or whatever they needed to obtain a pardon from Trump.  

I am also angry that Biden lied to us about it.  

That work for everyone?  Or do we need to be outraged longer?

 

 

[pacman 7429]

5 minutes ago, deech said:

I am as outraged about the Hunter pardon as I am about every fucking abusive Trump pardon that he put together including all those who likely exchanged money, political favor, or whatever they needed to obtain a pardon from Trump.  

I am also angry that Biden lied to us about it.  

That work for everyone?  Or do we need to be outraged longer?

 

 

So, you have been outraged about the abuse oflo Presidential pardons for four years now and just now decided to make it known? What about Bush's pardon of Libby and attempt to pardon Toussie? What's your solution since you have been upset for so long?

[Biff Tannen 45769]

50 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I’m assuming all the people who are upset about this will be back at 1 pm on January 20 after Trump pardons himself.

[Valmy77 13443]

Really fucking gross and corrupt from Joe Biden.

Politicians eh? They never stop letting you down.

[Incredulity 11693]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/12/hunter-biden-pardon/680843/

When President Joe Biden was running for a second term as president, he repeatedly ruled out granting a pardon to his son Hunter, who has pleaded guilty to tax fraud and lying on a form to purchase a gun. “He was very clear, very up-front, obviously very definitive,” White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said of one of his many promises to this effect.

Biden professed a willingness to abide by the results of the justice system as a matter of principle. But in breaking his promise, and issuing a sweeping pardon of his son for any crimes he may have committed over an 11-year period, Biden has revealed his pledge to have been merely instrumental.

 

[Valmy77 13443]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Trump already abused the pardon power to protect his family (Kushner’s dad, who is now named Ambassador lol) and friends (Bannon, Roger Stone, Manafort). The fake outrage over this is so dumb

Trump doing it is not exactly a reflection of it not being a corrupt thing to do. The opposite actually.

[Anastasis 23512]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/12/hunter-biden-pardon/680843/

When President Joe Biden was running for a second term as president, he repeatedly ruled out granting a pardon to his son Hunter, who has pleaded guilty to tax fraud and lying on a form to purchase a gun. “He was very clear, very up-front, obviously very definitive,” White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said of one of his many promises to this effect.

Biden professed a willingness to abide by the results of the justice system as a matter of principle. But in breaking his promise, and issuing a sweeping pardon of his son for any crimes he may have committed over an 11-year period, Biden has revealed his pledge to have been merely instrumental.

 

It was always pretty clearly a campaign tactic. Put the media and Biden surrogates on some talking points about the rule of law. Everybody should have know it was all full of shit. 

[Biff Tannen 45769]

5 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Trump doing it is not exactly a reflection of it not being a corrupt thing to do. The opposite actually.

When one side decides to not acknowledge the rules and has complete power, you would be a fool to continue playing by the rules.  That is how you lose.  The idea that we are going to triumph by acquiescing to fascists is folly.

[immamac 43566]

Just now, Biff Tannen said:

When one side decides to not acknowledge the rules and has complete power, you would be a fool to continue playing by the rules.  That is how you lose.  The idea that we are going to triumph by acquiescing to fascists is folly.

Lmao 

[Red Five 41076]

Again, Trump is going to pardon himself. He has promised to put people he doesn't like in jail. Making Biden stick to a campaign promise at this point is fucking absurd. 

[deech 2313]

48 minutes ago, pacman said:

So, you have been outraged about the abuse oflo Presidential pardons for four years now and just now decided to make it known? What about Bush's pardon of Libby and attempt to pardon Toussie? What's your solution since you have been upset for so long?

I expressed plenty of outrage with the Flynn/Stone/Manafort bullshit.  I also bitched about LIbby.  I don't think I know about Toussie, but will now read up on that one.    I will lose my absolute shit when the Jan 6 pardons come down.  

There is no solution. 

 

It doesn't change the fact that Biden is a liar and this move (even if you think its warranted for many different reasons) tarnishes his legacy, feeds conspiracy theories, and removes some of the moral high ground Dems might have had previously.  They still have way more than Rs and Trump, but a little less than yesterday.

 

 

 

[aggie08 21587]

I can't possibly image the miserable existence that some must be living in to muster to any kind of outrage over this.

Forget politics for two seconds: at the end of the day, it's his son. I'm sure Joe feels a tremendous amount of guilt for how Hunter's life turned out (score another one for nepotism/cronyism), and certainly feels that Hunter has already given his pound of flesh for being the go-to human punching bag for the last 5 years because of his dad's position.

He probably doesn't pardon him if he wins re-election this year. It is what it is. Besides, what has being a (relatively) selfless civil servant gotten Joe? Stepped aside to give Hilary her shot, beginning our current nightmare. Came back and won, only to become of the most unpopular, hated, mocked Presidents in a recent memory that includes the guy he beat. Got forced out (rightly or wrongly) only to see the GOP take everything. 

Let him go live in Delaware for his remaining years and see his remaining son.

Edited 4 hours ago by aggie08

[Longhorn_Fan68 33932]

just proves once again the massively hypocritical double standard the populace has for each party. a literal rapist felon insurrectionist traitor who shares secrets with our enemies was just elected president. but a Dem prez pardons his son for politically motivated crimes and all of a sudden the skies are falling. dotard has all but shot someone on 5th Ave and Biden does the equivalent of steal a gumdrop from the Brachs display and everyone loses their goddamn minds. buckle the fuck up because if THIS is ruffling your feathers you will not survive the next four years. 

[DDD Dad 14375]

Sleepy Joe just freed up Trumpco and Congress to MAGA.  No need to waste the next 4 years prosecuting Hunter.

[Red Five 41076]

11 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

just proves once again the massively hypocritical double standard the populace has for each party. a literal rapist felon insurrectionist traitor who shares secrets with our enemies was just elected president. but a Dem prez pardons his son for politically motivated crimes and all of a sudden the skies are falling. dotard has all but shot someone on 5th Ave and Biden does the equivalent of steal a gumdrop from the Brachs display and everyone loses their goddamn minds. buckle the fuck up because if THIS is ruffling your feathers you will not survive the next four years. 

I hope when Trump decides he doesn't want to leave office, it will get 10% of the media attention that Biden pardoning Hunter is getting. 

[hobbes2702 13153]

50 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Really fucking gross and corrupt from Joe Biden.

Politicians eh? They never stop letting you down.

Who gives a shit. It was a clown prosecution to begin with.

[hobbes2702 13153]

15 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

just proves once again the massively hypocritical double standard the populace has for each party. a literal rapist felon insurrectionist traitor who shares secrets with our enemies was just elected president. but a Dem prez pardons his son for politically motivated crimes and all of a sudden the skies are falling. dotard has all but shot someone on 5th Ave and Biden does the equivalent of steal a gumdrop from the Brachs display and everyone loses their goddamn minds. buckle the fuck up because if THIS is ruffling your feathers you will not survive the next four years. 

Yup. Anyone who cares about this is a rube.

[yoladu 4168]

future is bright for Hunter; an ambassadorship to France is likely on the horizon.

[Pancho 45479]

14 hours ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

such bullshit 

such a hypocrite.  besides the lost moral high ground, i hate all people who are above the law and protect their own above society. 

edit: just saw it was a blanket ten year pardon for any federal crimes ?!? wtf 

biden just completely undid his legacy in my eyes.  what a corrupt fuck face 

the rule of law is the most important thing in this country.  we must be the party to uphold it 

 

Why must dems be the party of morality but radical republicans aren’t held to the same standard?

Moreover, dems keep trying to be the party to uphold the rule of law and they keep losing. What does that tell you? 

[mdmost 43308]

Republicans can call Hunter before Congress to testify about his business dealings now and the 5th Amendment no longer applies. He can be jailed for contempt of Congress. 

[C-Man 27353]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

Imagine caring about US politics until 2028 2026

FIFY

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2647]

8 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

Why must dems be the party of morality but radical republicans aren’t held to the same standard?

Moreover, dems keep trying to be the party to uphold the rule of law and they keep losing. What does that tell you? 

because the republicans are a lost cause. they are pure evil.  this a war against evil.

i am not wanting to sacrifice virtues or PR over hunter fucking biden and what is at worst some minor jail time.   people of better people have sacrificed it all in the name of the republic 

 

[hobbes2702 13153]

4 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

because the republicans are a lost cause. they are pure evil.  this a war against evil.

i am not wanting to sacrifice virtues or PR over hunter fucking biden and what is at worst some minor jail time.   people of better people have sacrificed it all in the name of the republic 

 

 

Virtues lol. A politically motivated prosecution over a nothing crime. 

[mdmost 43308]

Maybe this ends the Joe Biden/Obama/Clinton wing of the Democratic party and we can all move forward now since 2026 and 2028 are all that matter with fresh leadership and purpose.

 

[Brisketexan 105579]

7 minutes ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

because the republicans are a lost cause. they are pure evil.  this a war against evil.

i am not wanting to sacrifice virtues or PR over hunter fucking biden and what is at worst some minor jail time.   people of better people have sacrificed it all in the name of the republic 

 

We've waged such a war in the past.

Remember how we waged it?

This image of Berlin in 1945 should refresh your recollection:

 

Once one side decides on total depravity, then them's the rules of the game.  By the way, that being something that many of us have waved as a huge red flag and warning against the right going hell for leather into trashing the Rule of Law.  Once it's trashed....it's trashed.  You can't do it selectively, "only for me, not for thee."  You can TRY that, and the other side might be stupid and buy into that for a bit, but once they realize that abiding by the law and norms only gets your ass kicked by the "no rules, just whatever we want" side, you change your fucking tune, and start playing by those rules.

There is no Rule of Law in the US anymore.  The right decided that's how they wanted it to be.  So, that's how it be.

[Bateshorn 9958]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've waged such a war in the past.

Remember how we waged it?

This image of Berlin in 1945 should refresh your recollection:

 

Once one side decides on total depravity, then them's the rules of the game.  By the way, that being something that many of us have waved as a huge red flag and warning against the right going hell for leather into trashing the Rule of Law.  Once it's trashed....it's trashed.  You can't do it selectively, "only for me, not for thee."  You can TRY that, and the other side might be stupid and buy into that for a bit, but once they realize that abiding by the law and norms only gets your ass kicked by the "no rules, just whatever we want" side, you change your fucking tune, and start playing by those rules.

There is no Rule of Law in the US anymore.  The right decided that's how they wanted it to be.  So, that's how it be.

Like I said: All gas, no brakes.