Joe Biden 2024 thread - Dark Brandon Where Art Thou?

G650 · January 26

1 minute ago, Hal Finney said:

Which group do you think has a better idea about the longer term demand for LNG globally?

The producers in the marketplace allocating large amounts of capital long term, or this Presidential administration and its bureaucrats?

Neither one, honestly

G650 · January 26

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

since I am doing this from my phone

Don't worry, we all are man.

bolverk · January 26

6 minutes ago, Hal Finney said:

Which group do you think has a better idea about the longer term demand for LNG globally?

The producers in the marketplace allocating large amounts of capital long term, or this Presidential administration and its bureaucrats?

I've already said, in the long term, this is a problem. I don't think it is much of one right now, but I am asking how much of an issue it will be in the next few years. It just depends on the length of the pause.

6 minutes ago, Hate said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#:~:text=Capital costs tend to be,thermal%2C offshore wind and nuclear.

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Hate · January 26

I’m trying to say LNG is the most plausible and lowest cost energy source available right now. We can’t meet our growing energy needs with solar and wind.

G650 · January 26

2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I've already said, in the long term, this is a problem. I don't think it is much of one right now, but I am asking how much of an issue it will be in the next few years. It just depends on the length of the pause.

To me, the biggest question is how much growth is there left. I am mainly skeptical there is going to be wide-spread uptake requiring a huge supply increason over what's currently in process.

Being in infrastructure construction myself, I also would say that for something permitted right now, it's 10 years to be delivering, so it's further downstream than many are suggesting

bolverk · January 27

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

I’m trying to say LNG is the most plausible and lowest cost energy source available right now. We can’t meet our growing energy needs with solar and wind.

I agree with the "right now" part. I also think the price of solar and wind will continue to diminish.

1 minute ago, G650 said:

To me, the biggest question is how much growth is there left. I am mainly skeptical there is going to be wide-spread uptake requiring a huge supply increason over what's currently in process.

Being in infrastructure construction myself, I also would say that for something permitted right now, it's 10 years to be delivering, so it's further downstream than many are suggesting

That's why I keep harping on how many LNG export facilities in the pipeline will be affected by this announcement that it really matters to make such a stink about it right now.

berlinerbaer · January 27

All of you centrists and former Republicans seem to forget that turning out the base is priority #1 for any winning campaign. For environmentalism causes, this is up there with canning the Keystone XL.

This matters even more to the millions of young people that have aged into voting since 2016 and 2020. Many of them are terrified of climate change and inaction from elected officials, real or perceived. At minimum, this will help Biden score some much needed points with this group after his approval of the oil expansion up in Alaska and the Gaza war. Getting voters from this cohort will outweigh any losses from other demographics.

Edited January 27 by berlinerbaer

Dutchrudder · January 27

I would be surprised if this "pause" lasted beyond December. It's a signal to green voters that he cares, but will quickly be forgotten once reelection is secured. LNG is vital to our allies since the invasion of Ukraine.

StassneyHorn · January 27

I should’ve made it clear at the beginning of this thread that Oil n Guess discussion goes in the Spitters Baron thread in DT. The amount of delulu going on with that industry against Dems is laughable and this is my safe space.

My President wearing a construction hat backwards is easy money to get a laugh from union guys. Thank you for posting that @Hal Finney. Hopefully he can show you a 100 dollar bill whenever you show him a physical bitcoin some day.

The Original Greaser Bob · January 27

Oh.

I thought LNG was the UT NIL stock symbol.

Hate · January 27

23 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

I would be surprised if this "pause" lasted beyond December. It's a signal to green voters that he cares, but will quickly be forgotten once reelection is secured. LNG is vital to our allies since the invasion of Ukraine.

I wonder if any of those green voters have any idea how many gallons of oil are needed to produce and operate solar panels or wind turbine.

Hate · January 27

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

I agree with the "right now" part. I also think the price of solar and wind will continue to diminish.

The cost may diminish but the footprint won't. How many acres of solar or wind farms would you need to power a city like Houston? LA? What about the northern climates where the sun isn't out much during the winter? I'm all for making the world a less polluted place, but it's going to be a gradual process and not the overnight fix those young voters mentioned before want.

atomheartbevo · January 27

56 minutes ago, Hate said:

I wonder if any of those green voters have any idea how many gallons of oil are needed to produce and operate solar panels or wind turbine.

They will comprehend the relationship between the oil and those turbines and solar panels about as well as a libertarian comprehends how public roads get built.

Fudge Nuggets · January 27

3 hours ago, Hal Finney said:

Which group do you think has a better idea about the longer term demand for LNG globally?

The producers in the marketplace allocating large amounts of capital long term, or this Presidential administration and its bureaucrats?

Considering how most public O&G companies are run worse than a first grader's lemonade stand, let me get back to you on that one.

Hal Finney · January 27

24 minutes ago, Hate said:

The cost may diminish but the footprint won't. How many acres of solar or wind farms would you need to power a city like Houston? LA? What about the northern climates where the sun isn't out much during the winter? I'm all for making the world a less polluted place, but it's going to be a gradual process and not the overnight fix those young voters mentioned before want.

I was told wind and solar were big winners even when disregarding the externalities of the minerals and fossil fuels required to produce them.

Fudge Nuggets · January 27

12 minutes ago, Hal Finney said:

I was told wind and solar were big winners even when disregarding the externalities of the minerals and fossil fuels required to produce them.

So, producers in the marketplace allocating large amounts of capital long term aren't infallible.

Shocker.

StassneyHorn · January 27

Please just guess the answers to their “checkmate” hypotheticals they have to google while ignoring the obvious benefits

Dutchrudder · January 27

42 minutes ago, Hate said:

The cost may diminish but the footprint won't. How many acres of solar or wind farms would you need to power a city like Houston? LA? What about the northern climates where the sun isn't out much during the winter? I'm all for making the world a less polluted place, but it's going to be a gradual process and not the overnight fix those young voters mentioned before want.

Just need to go full speed into nuclear research and start building reactors to fill the gap. Let renewables cover ~40% and use nuclear for most of the rest. The amount of waste produced is minimal, and there could be other uses for it with more research.

Goofyboy · January 27

Small Modular Reactors should be the future. This company is an example:

https://www.nuscalepower.com/en

Bozo_Casanova · January 27

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

They will comprehend the relationship between the oil and those turbines and solar panels about as well as a libertarian comprehends how public roads get built.

What’s next? A license to make toast in my own damn toaster?!

Hate · January 27

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What’s next? A license to make toast in my own damn toaster?!

Toast has carbon. They are coming for your toast.

Voldemort86 · January 27

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rents-fall-nationwide-third-straight-234418744.html

3rd month in a row of rents falling on a nationwide basis. If you paid any attention at all to inflation, a huge part of the problem was rents rapidly increasing during and especially after the pandemic.

I think inflation was just the “hang over” of covid and it’s really starting to subside now which is great news for Biden.

elfenix · January 27

6 hours ago, G650 said:

Neither one, honestly

not like the oil industry is famously boom-bust or anything.

Edited January 27 by elfenix

elfenix · January 27

3 hours ago, Hate said:

The cost may diminish but the footprint won't. How many acres of solar or wind farms would you need to power a city like Houston?

those dots aren't wind turbines or solar farms and they're up to 5 acres each where literally nothing else is happening.

meanwhile solar panels have gotten so cheap that you can install them vertically and run combines between them:

bolverk · January 27

3 hours ago, Hate said:

The cost may diminish but the footprint won't. How many acres of solar or wind farms would you need to power a city like Houston? LA? What about the northern climates where the sun isn't out much during the winter? I'm all for making the world a less polluted place, but it's going to be a gradual process and not the overnight fix those young voters mentioned before want.

Many don't seem to realize that any energy source has a "footprint". It's just a matter of scale and degree. Yes, there's the physical footprint formed by the drilling pad, the solar panel, the wind turbine, or the cooling tower of a nuclear energy plant. But we must also consider the "footprint" created by the energy that's produced.

For example, nuclear's largest footprint might be created from the disposal of spent fuel, but there's also the potential footprint created by an accident spreading radiation. Obviously, there's also the footprint created by the manufacture of wind turbine components along with photovoltaic cells.

But, please, let's not ignore the "footprint" left by the combustion of fossil fuels that spread CO2 throughout the entire planet's atmosphere, which entraps energy that's causing it not only to heat up but also to produce volatile effects on weather patterns and acidify the oceans' waters.

Each and every energy source has a "footprint". There's no doubt about that. It's only a matter of weighing all the costs and benefits of each and choosing the one that is least harmful to life on our planet as we know it.

At this point, I'm pretty sure we have the necessary information. Hell, we've known for at least 35 years (I remember seeing reports about "greenhouse gasses" from Peter Jennings in the late 1980s). There was an agreed-upon consensus when we were all much younger, and Republican President Bush agreed. But, much like smoking, industry lobbying groups interfered and delayed action. What we've always lacked is the will, because it makes some people really, really rich.

bolverk · January 27

12 minutes ago, elfenix said:

those dots aren't wind turbines or solar farms and they're up to 5 acres each where literally nothing else is happening.

meanwhile solar panels have gotten so cheap that you can install them vertically and run combines between them:

West Texas

Edit:

Let's talk about "footprint". When I get out to my hometown in the Permian Basin, you can easily see 30-40 of these at a time in the foreground and along the horizon. How should we measure that in comparison to a wind or solar farm? What gasses are being released?

Briny water tanks. What's that doing to wildlife and birds?

Leaking wells.

Edited January 27 by bolverk

bolverk · January 27

6 hours ago, berlinerbaer said:

All of you centrists and former Republicans seem to forget that turning out the base is priority #1 for any winning campaign. For environmentalism causes, this is up there with canning the Keystone XL.

This matters even more to the millions of young people that have aged into voting since 2016 and 2020. Many of them are terrified of climate change and inaction from elected officials, real or perceived. At minimum, this will help Biden score some much needed points with this group after his approval of the oil expansion up in Alaska and the Gaza war. Getting voters from this cohort will outweigh any losses from other demographics.

It's not just young people. In a few months, I'll be 53 years old. I'm neither a former Republican (I don't think I've ever cast a vote for one in my life) nor am I a centrist. On the contrary, I'm proudly a liberal progressive from a political angle. And, from a philosophical perspective, you could also call me a pragmatic idealist who understands the constraints placed on us to make headway within our existing political system.

This is going to be a slog and not a revolutionary sprint. It fucking sucks. Believe me, I'd love nothing more than an immediate reversal on all this shit, but that's unfortunately not how it works. Instead, this is an endurance marathon where we must constantly apply pressure and fight for progress against very powerful forces.

Edited January 27 by bolverk

gmr548 · January 27

15 hours ago, Pancho said:

I mean I'm not going to sit here and pretend I don't find this as funny as anyone else; but man, what a sad, dysfunctional society we are.

babysdaddy · January 27

He’s going to win, but not because he’s doing awesome and everyone loves him

Francisco 2.0 · January 27

Underdog · January 27

53 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

He’s going to win, but not because he’s doing awesome and everyone loves him

Neonmoon · January 27

12 hours ago, Voldemort86 said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rents-fall-nationwide-third-straight-234418744.html

3rd month in a row of rents falling on a nationwide basis. If you paid any attention at all to inflation, a huge part of the problem was rents rapidly increasing during and especially after the pandemic.

I think inflation was just the “hang over” of covid and it’s really starting to subside now which is great news for Biden.

Rents be coming down. Huge influx of supply last year of apartments competed.

aggie08 · January 27

2 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

He’s going to win, but not because he’s doing awesome and everyone loves him

I would love to hear what the non-MAGA demographics wish that he was or wasn't doing.

DigglerontheHoof · January 27

I really don't get the low approval numbers.

Js1 · January 27

7 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I really don't get the low approval numbers.

Republicans think he’s too far left - Commie Joe. A big chunk of progressives think he’s basically a Republican.

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand · January 27

5 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I really don't get the low approval numbers.

It's a poll of lonely people who have free time and want to chat with other people.

Anastasis · January 27

6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I really don't get the low approval numbers.

Take your pick. Some light genocide enabling, border break downs and sanctuary cities getting the length. Cost of living keeps ramping up. The only way Biden has a chance at re upping is if trump is the opposing candidate.

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Republicans think he’s too far left - Commie Joe. A big chunk of progressives think he’s basically a Republican.

The worst kind of Republican. A neocon.

StassneyHorn · January 27

aggie08 · January 27

I'm going to guess that your average poll answerer's wish/complaint list looks nothing like Ana's.

I assume it's some combination of the border and he's old and has lost a step. I don't hear much about inflation these days, even from my largely right-leaning friend group.

aggie08 · January 27

I will add that the people in the "he's too old" camp (and he is, of course) who are lucky enough to have ostracized Trump from their lives over the past 3 years...boy, are they in for a treat when they see his cognitive decline once he's back on national television.

TwiceHorn · January 27

30 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Take your pick. Some light genocide enabling, border break downs and sanctuary cities getting the length. Cost of living keeps ramping up. The only way Biden has a chance at re upping is if trump is the opposing candidate.

The worst kind of Republican. A neocon.

Oh, there is a much much worse form of Republican.

Anastasis · January 27

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Oh, there is a much much worse form of Republican.

OK, Nikki.

StassneyHorn · January 27

jimmyjazz · January 27

Right on cue. I wish ana were a troll, but he's fucking serious. All that IQ wasted on some stupid hidden political bent.

nbmishoid · January 27

Well, honestly, Nikki is a POS. But she’s a useful POS for the moment

Anastasis · January 27

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

stupid hidden political bent.

It's just a math equation. How many fucking dead bodies can we stack before we get to a point when we look in the mirror and say "enough, let's go a different direction".

WRT that, we are incapable of honest self reflection when it comes to the way we engage the rest of the world, especially to the extent that that self reflection requires actual action and course correction.

But go ahead, enjoy the circus and just keep pulling the lever.

Edited January 27 by Anastasis

Anastasis · January 27

12 minutes ago, nbmishoid said:

Well, honestly, Nikki is a POS. But she’s a useful POS for the moment

Nikki would be the worst possible outcome as president. She will preside over more new and meaningful conflicts than even Biden has managed.

StassneyHorn · January 27

DigglerontheHoof · January 27

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Take your pick. Some light genocide enabling, border break downs and sanctuary cities getting the length. Cost of living keeps ramping up.

So mishandling the ME like every single POTUS before him, having a shit congress to work w/ that will prevent anything of value from getting done regarding the border, and getting blamed for corporations taking massive profits.

Like I said, I don't get it.

Edited January 27 by DigglerontheHoof

Brisketexan · January 27

Nikki would be the worst possible outcome as president. She will preside over more new and meaningful conflicts than even Biden has managed.

And there you have it. You know who Ana SAYS he shits on, as in “sure, of course he’s terrible, what else needs to be said”….yet he always, 100% of the time, finds a way to characterize anyone opposing him as MUCH worse? Yep, TFG.
And the fact that his response to this will be yet another non-response of something like “brain worms, neocons” continues the pattern.

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