USMNT 2024

PittsburghTiger · June 28

2 hours ago, WBT said:

I wish I shared y'all's optimism.

Remember we don't have to qualify for the WC. The powers that be just have to wait a month for this to blow over. It will be 2 whole years before gerggg can embarass himself in an important match.

Or, four days.

Trey3216 · June 28

13 minutes ago, The Dog said:

the quote from Lalas.

We've never had more players in top leagues starting for bigger teams than we do today.

This group is underachieving and needs to get their shit together.

I fail to see anything optimistic - what about GGG firing is good? US Soccer will likely find someone worse. It's a dysfunctional mess.

We were at least in the "group of death" in that tournament and would have beaten eventual champions Italy were it not for refball. The only game where we looked out of our league was the Czech game when we let Rosicky do whatever he wanted.

The same players who looked like a completely different team skill wise, tactically and emotionally under the interim manager before the USSF decided to use a Bowie knife for a dildo by rehiring that stupid-faced fucker?

Captain Ron · June 28

17 minutes ago, The Dog said:

FUCKING HAPPY CLAPPERS

Ted Lange · June 28

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/tim-weah-red-card-right-decision-usmnt-copa-america-officiating/17605b9734ef7bc60d51b81e

The 4 minutes added goes into the bucket of shit calls, the no card on Turner getting wiped out, the could on Gio that wasn't called and lead the to Panama goal, etc...

Captain Ron · June 28

31 minutes ago, The Dog said:

the quote from Lalas.

We've never had more players in top leagues starting for bigger teams than we do today.

This group is underachieving and needs to get their shit together.

Christ, Lalas continues to just be a beating. "get out of it!" is his solution? This is right down there with his assessment of England in the Euros (see below) the guy has no real substance to his breakdowns. We sit here and have page after page of real aspects of where this team is failing - bad player usage, not bringing his best players, sticking with a bad system, not making good subs, terrible in game management. And Lalas goes with "get out of [this situation]."

This is why I liked both ESPN's international coverage and NBC's coverage because they approach it the right way.

ESPN brought in smart people that broke down stuff and explained tactics and problems. Sure it was dumbed down, but it wasn't vibes.

NBC nailed it in spades, they just came out of the gate with the idea "They are watching, they are soccer fans, let's treat them like it" and their studio show breaks down the game at a very high level. I would commend CBS in the same way, though a little later.

Fox treats their fans like morons. Lalas is the face of the US game and he only brings vibes. A waste.

Chiellini and Sturridge bring real tactics and insight. Lalas - vibes.

Captain Ron · June 28

One thing I have to ask is How does Weah's red card happen?

And what I mean is that we are well into an era when you touch a guy in the face "violently" you are going to get a red card. Violently being something like a punch or pushing a guy down. I can't think that this hasn't been codified in rules for so long that these guys haven't played under these rules forever.

So how do teams not work at making sure players don't react like this? I'm not ONLY talking at the USMNT level - I'm talking like their development teams, what they have been playing since they were teenagers, The clubs, etc. How do teams not work at this? Drill them when you go to push a guy that pisses you off, always go for the body. You want to shove a guy, gut and lower ribs. And work on getting them to react this way.

I see too many players just being dumb, shove a guy and get their hands up in the face when it just isn't necessary. Or worse do what Weah did which is even dumber.

Edited June 28 by Captain Ron

Captain Ron · June 28

Edited June 28 by Captain Ron

Helobious · June 28

1 hour ago, Captain Ron said:

One thing I have to ask is How does Weah's red card happen?

And what I mean is that we are well into an era when you touch a guy in the face "violently" you are going to get a red card. Violently being something like a punch or pushing a guy down. I can't think that this hasn't been codified in rules for so long that these guys haven't played under these rules forever.

So how do teams not work at making sure players don't react like this? I'm not ONLY talking at the USMNT level - I'm talking like their development teams, what they have been playing since they were teenagers, The clubs, etc. How do teams not work at this? Drill them when you go to push a guy that pisses you off, always go for the body. You want to shove a guy, gut and lower ribs. And work on getting them to react this way.

I see too many players just being dumb, shove a guy and get their hands up in the face when it just isn't necessary. Or worse do what Weah did which is even dumber.

It’s almost like anger can impair decision making or something.

That Guy · June 28

And here I am not having punched a coworker in the head even given years of ample justification.

Scary Stranger · June 28

And here I am not having punched a coworker in the head even given years of ample justification.

Pussy. I’ve punched like 3 in the last 2 hours.

Trey3216 · June 28

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

It’s almost like anger can impair decision making or something.

Leave it to the guy wearing gas station wife beaters and $18 Amazon chains to be the arbiter of decision making.

That Guy · June 28

43 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

Pussy. I’ve punched like 3 in the last 2 hours.

Praying you aren’t a stay at home dad.

Hagbard Celine · June 28

welp, it's time

i can't hold back any longer

this is going to ruin everyone's day

you probably already know what i'm about to say

i already knew what i was about to say

but i had never put 2 & 2 together.....

+++

"There is a bear in the woods. For some people, the bear is easy to see. Others don't see it at all. Some people say the bear is tame. Others say it's vicious and dangerous. Since no one can really be sure who's right, isn't it smart to be as strong as the bear? If there is a bear."

+++

"Cone successfully reached a historic collective-bargaining agreement (CBA) with the women's and men's national teams in May 2022. The agreement made the United States the first country to achieve gender equality in its pay for soccer athletes."

+++

"Hayes was recently hired to lead the U.S. Women's National Soccer Team following the departure of former head coach, Vlatko Andonovski. While the specifics of her contract have not been released by U.S. Soccer, reports indicate Hayes is set to earn roughly $1.6 million per year through 2027."

+++

"One source with knowledge of the deal confirmed to ESPN that her salary will be "close if not equal" to that of U.S. men's national team manager Gregg Berhalter, who makes $1.6 million."

+++

There it is

That's the reason he got the job back

It's the reason he's keeping the job no matter what happens

We can't pay any coach of The United States Men's National Team more than $1.6M through the end of 2027, the length of Hayes' contract

We are royally fucked six ways to sunday because of this pornographically stupid compensation agreement parlow signed

god

fucking

dammnit

Bottlecap · June 28

Sure we can. We just gotta renegotiate Emma Hayes’ contract and pay her what we’re paying the men’s which will never be at the level of top managers anyway. Fuck it, give her more money, it’s not mine and the women’s side has more than earned it.

dieucla98 · June 28

Just now, Bottlecap said:

Sure we can. We just gotta renegotiate Emma Hayes’ contract and pay her what we’re paying the men’s which will never be at the level of top managers anyway. Fuck it, give her more money, it’s not mine and the women’s side has more than earned it.

Joking or not, I still like the idea above of letting Hayes coach both sides. If we're going to be political about this, let's go all in.

Honestly, how many hours a day are required to a national team coach? Surely, they aren't doing jack shit all 95% of the time. How long does it take to text "hey bro, what's up, how's Italy?" once a week?

Ted Lange · June 28

BJ would work for 1/2 of what Gregg is getting paid, and at worse have slightly better results. Use the rest of the money to hire some bad ass assistants.

Edited June 28 by Ted Lange

WBT · June 28

8 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

Or, four days.

Well yeah, but that one was a foregone conclusion before the tournament started

Captain Ron · June 29

7 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

"One source with knowledge of the deal confirmed to ESPN that her salary will be "close if not equal" to that of U.S. men's national team manager Gregg Berhalter, who makes $1.6 million."

...

We can't pay any coach of The United States Men's National Team more than $1.6M through the end of 2027, the length of Hayes' contract

Uh, we already pay Ggg more than that. It was noted a few pages back.

7 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

BJ would work for 1/2 of what Gregg is getting paid, and at worse have slightly better results. Use the rest of the money to hire some bad ass assistants.

There is nothing slight about his results.

Captain Ron · June 29

16 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

welp, it's time

i can't hold back any longer

this is going to ruin everyone's day

you probably already know what i'm about to say

i already knew what i was about to say

but i had never put 2 & 2 together.....

+++

"There is a bear in the woods. For some people, the bear is easy to see. Others don't see it at all. Some people say the bear is tame. Others say it's vicious and dangerous. Since no one can really be sure who's right, isn't it smart to be as strong as the bear? If there is a bear."

+++

"Cone successfully reached a historic collective-bargaining agreement (CBA) with the women's and men's national teams in May 2022. The agreement made the United States the first country to achieve gender equality in its pay for soccer athletes."

+++

"Hayes was recently hired to lead the U.S. Women's National Soccer Team following the departure of former head coach, Vlatko Andonovski. While the specifics of her contract have not been released by U.S. Soccer, reports indicate Hayes is set to earn roughly $1.6 million per year through 2027."

+++

"One source with knowledge of the deal confirmed to ESPN that her salary will be "close if not equal" to that of U.S. men's national team manager Gregg Berhalter, who makes $1.6 million."

+++

There it is

That's the reason he got the job back

It's the reason he's keeping the job no matter what happens

We can't pay any coach of The United States Men's National Team more than $1.6M through the end of 2027, the length of Hayes' contract

We are royally fucked six ways to sunday because of this pornographically stupid compensation agreement parlow signed

god

fucking

dammnit

Hagbard, your my boy, but the more I read this and the more I follow up, I just realize your math ain't mathing.

1. Read any of the following articles, the pay agreement is specifically between the USSF and the players, their CBA, and nothing shows that this applies to the coaches

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/sports/soccer/soccer-equal-pay-explained.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3U0.OKGM.iOip9vmVLkEr&smid=url-share

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/sports/soccer/us-soccer-equal-pay-deal.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3U0.xOOr.callCaI71J6R&smid=url-share

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2022/05/ussf-womens-and-mens-national-team-unions-agree-to-historic-collective-bargaining-agreements

I challenge anyone to find an article that says we must pay the coaches equitably, the fact that Hayes was payed similarly was purely coincidental.

2. We have already established that Berhalter's bonuses have kicked his salary beyond what Hayes makes.

On 6/9/2024 at 1:36 PM, Captain Ron said:

We pay Berhalter around $2.3M right now, we might not command that kind of money, but we don't have any sort of pay link between these two jobs.

3. Finally, national team coaches doesn't have to be that high. The fact that Berhalter is in the top 10 of these two lists (he would be 7th in both) of THESE guys is a joke. Though not as much of a joke that Southgate tops the list.

On 6/9/2024 at 2:25 PM, Ted Lange said:

Some coaching salary info.

Euros

Gareth Southgate ENGLAND €5.800.000

Julian Nagelsmann GERMANY €4.800.000

Roberto Martínez PORTUGAL €4.000.000

Didier Deschamps FRANCE €3.800.000

Louis van Gaal NETHERLANDS €3.000.000

Luciano Spaletti ITALY €3.000.000

Vicenzo Montella TURKEY €1.800.000

Murat Yakin SWITZERLAND €1.600.000

Ralf Rangnick AUSTRIA €1.500.000

Domenico Tedesco BELGIUM €1.500.000

Zlatko Dalić CROATIA €1.500.000

Dragan Stojković SERBIA €1.400.000

Luis de la Fuente SPAIN €1.250.000

Serhiy Rebrov UKRAINE €1.250.000

Kasper Hjulmand DENMARK €1.150.000

Sylvinho ALBANIA €750.000

Michal Probierz POLAND €560.000

Steve Clark SCOTLAND €550.000

Francesco Calzona SLOVAKIA €540.000

Marco Rossi HUNGARY €300.000

Matjaž Kek SLOVENIA €300.000

Ivan Hašek CZECH €250.000

Edward Iordănescu ROMANIA €240.000

Bundesliga

So yeah, Berhalter is very VERY fireable.

Captain Ron · June 29

I have to ask, what are Berhalter's signature games? He's been our coach for 73 games and what would you call his signature results?

Hagbard Celine · June 29

16 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

BJ would work for 1/2 of what Gregg is getting paid, and at worse have slightly better results. Use the rest of the money to hire some bad ass assistants.

fwiw, pool paid klopp $26m and he had another $54m in endorsements

beerholder has no endorsements

klopp makes 40x more than berhalter

our federation are just disgusting

Hagbard Celine · June 29

9 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I have to ask, what are Berhalter's signature games? He's been our coach for 73 games and what would you call his signature results?

flipping the mexico pendulum back in our favor, several of those wins "felt" epic and transformational

then qatar

& i was told that the cba is for coaches as well - i hope my source is wrong

Captain Ron · June 29

38 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

I have to ask, what are Berhalter's signature games? He's been our coach for 73 games and what would you call his signature results?

Berhalter's record is anything from 2019 here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men's_national_soccer_team_results_(2010–2019)#2019

And everything from here except the first 12 games from 2023: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men's_national_soccer_team_results_(2020–present)

My thoughts

Signature Wins: I'm not sure I see much in there that is a signature win. We beat Mexico twice in 2021, the Nations League Final (3-2 in overtime) was pretty epic. But that might be it in terms of wins

Signature Draws: We drew a good England team in the 2022 World Cup. I kind of want to give credit for the draw against Brazil earlier this month, but I don't give a lot of thumbs up for Friendlies.

Signature Losses: The ones that really stand out to me were: Japan friendly right before the World Cup, it started the alarm bells. Netherlands in the World Cup because we were never in it, Trinidad & Tobago in the Nations League, because we shouldn't lose to them. Colombia because 5-1 and Panama this week. I give negatives for friendlies when they appear to give you little to nothing.

Thoughts?

Hagbard Celine · June 29

his signature game was in the video i posted above

along with wondowlowski both should have received a lifetime ban from the national team in any capacity

The Dog · June 29

WBT · June 29

4 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

I have to ask, what are Berhalter's signature games?

the ones where he throws the sweet bounce passes?

Derka · June 30

Knoxtnhorn · June 30

18 hours ago, WBT said:

the ones where he throws the sweet, behind the back, bounce passes?

FIFY

dieucla98 · June 30

2 hours ago, Derka said:

Still don't think he's the right coach for the job but he's certainly better than what we got.

LurkingHorn · June 30

I would have taken Marsch in a heartbeat over Berhalter. Even if you think they’re about even, he at least would have been a new voice in the room.

Ted Lange · June 30

Canada scored 1 goal in 297 minutes, 121 minutes of that time they were playing against 10 men.

Knoxtnhorn · June 30

Those sitters Pepi missed don't seem as funny to me now.

A-Tex Devil · June 30

We will park the bus hoping for two ties, and watch Bolivia and Panama kick each other in the shins for 89 minutes until Panama nets a goal. We will then have to go on attack and Uruguay will get 2 on counters in extra time.

Ted Lange · June 30

Braff Zacklin · June 30

Could CONMEBOL please suspend Gergg for tomorrow's match, as well?

Ted Lange · June 30

LurkingHorn · June 30

7 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Canada scored 1 goal in 297 minutes, 121 minutes of that time they were playing against 10 men.

They’ve also haven’t given up any goals to anyone besides Argentina. They are going to advance out of a much more difficult group while we’re likely at home.

Ted Lange · June 30

It isn’t a much more difficult group when 2 of your games are against 10 men. Also Chile has failed to score in their last 5 competitive matches.

Napoleon · June 30

19 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

It isn’t a much more difficult group when 2 of your games are against 10 men. Also Chile has failed to score in their last 5 competitive matches.

It’s a much more difficult group, but the stupidity of two of their opponents helped them.

Braff Zacklin · July 1

48 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

It’s a much more difficult group

What @Ted Lange has very clearly explained twice now is that Canada's group becomes a whole lot easier when two of its opponents spend nearly half of the match down a man. That is what made Canada's group not very difficult. On paper, it should've been a tough group, but Peru and Chile made it much easier for them.

In other words, Canada ain't done shit.

Derka · July 1

tokamak · July 1

So long story short we basically just need to match Panama’s result tomorrow, correct?

Ted Lange · July 1

They need to win by 2 more goals. GD is +1 to -1

WBT · July 1

23 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

They need to win by 2 more goals. GD is +1 to -1

Or they only need to draw and have us lose

Napoleon · July 1

40 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

They need to win by 2 more goals. GD is +1 to -1

Or Panama need to lose by 2 fewer goals than the USMNT.

Bolivia’s GD is -7.

Derka · July 1

who do we have to sacrifice to the soccer gods to make this happen? cuz i’ll take one for the team if i have to.

Braff Zacklin · July 1

I'll be driving through Darby on July Fourth on my way home from Missoula. Maybe I can see what he has to say about stepping in for Gergg.

Incidentally, David Letterman famously railed against Darby for a speeding ticket he once picked up passing through there.

Napoleon · July 1

4 hours ago, Derka said:

who do we have to sacrifice to the soccer gods to make this happen? cuz i’ll take one for the team if i have to.

Ancelotti would not turn our roster into one of the best rosters in the world, but…

He would put the right players on the field, in the right positions, using the best possible formation, with some of the best tactics that we could hope for.

The guy doesn’t work miracles, but the guy does adapt his tactics to fit his roster. And that would be refreshing as fuck!

Captain Ron · July 1

Word is that Uruguay is not resting their starters for today.

The Maestro · July 1

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