Big10 Sugar Bowl Refs

[troph 24562]

I think it was also the benefit of the doubt went to WA. Called offsides on Texas, same issue didn’t call it on WA, was it holding or not? It wasn’t for WA, DPI at the end, no complaint but would that have gone the same way tables reversed, could been called. Then a few bad calls already noted.

the game came down to (1) Penix healthy was more elusive than I thought he would be. We got pressure, blitz packages were dumb but our D got to him, he just eluded pressure in ways I did not expect. He’s going to get PAID for that skill; (2) fumbles, (3) I think this stage was a bit much for a 20 year old sophomore QB.
 

defense got the stops, not enough for this game but enough if the Texas offense was rolling. 

Refs were annoying but not even 5% of why Texas lost.

[MirrOlure 14625]

All I can say is we got called for blocking. While on defense. Blocking. While on defense.

[Tex Pete 20177]

4 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

All I can say is we got called for blocking. While on defense. Blocking. While on defense.

That is how they call that penalty. Unfortunately for us, it was a bullshit call that he did not commit.

[Nivek 16857]

49 minutes ago, troph said:

I think it was also the benefit of the doubt went to WA. Called offsides on Texas, same issue didn’t call it on WA, was it holding or not? It wasn’t for WA, DPI at the end, no complaint but would that have gone the same way tables reversed, could been called. Then a few bad calls already noted.

the game came down to (1) Penix healthy was more elusive than I thought he would be. We got pressure, blitz packages were dumb but our D got to him, he just eluded pressure in ways I did not expect. He’s going to get PAID for that skill; (2) fumbles, (3) I think this stage was a bit much for a 20 year old sophomore QB.
 

defense got the stops, not enough for this game but enough if the Texas offense was rolling. 

Refs were annoying but not even 5% of why Texas lost.

In a close game, bonus yards on spots, two different rulebook officiating absolutely matters and influences the game.  At the end, it is a DPI that gets called and puts us at the goal line and we waltz in for the score and the win.  The earlier DPI gets their DBs to back off a little.  The holding makes Penix seem untouchable and negates the entire defensive lines ability to get pressure advantage we had and it wears down the defense faster than otherwise.   It gave him a whole lot of time to make his throws which is easier for a 6th year QB than it is for a 2nd year QB who was given significantly less time.   Heck the officials allowed Penix to throw the ball past the LOS, ignored illegal procedure and an ineligible lineman downfield on passing plays.   That absolutely matters. 

Sark being cute and forgetting to run the ball was a huge mistake.   The offensive line performance was meh and Jones regressed.   The ball security was another absurd mistake and having Kelian Robinson returning was just unconscionable.  Put Arch Manning back there would have been a better decision.  In spite of the coaching absurdity and mistakes by the players,  in the end, another non-call seals the game.   That absolutely points out how much the referee fuckery impacted the game.   

BTW the hit on Ewers wasn't reviewed for targeting.  It was the same type of hit that got our player ejected from the b12 title game.   Different crews, but same shit.

 

[Billy Pilgrim 1913]

One thing sark needs to get better about is working the officials. That’s got more to do with call discrepancy than a conspiracy against Texas. I hate that it’s part of the game but it seems to work for other coaches.

[Longboard Horn 40139]

That officiating was straight ass last night. As soon as they gave them that first down when we stopped them(should have been 3rd &1 with no gain) I knew we were gonna get screwed. 

[FloridaHorn 4735]

39 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

All I can say is we got called for blocking. While on defense. Blocking. While on defense.

Well, that’s a rule. It is there to prevent players from diving at the knees of on coming blockers. However, the Texas player hit the OL above the waist and should not have been flagged in that situation.

[dcar00 14035]

the block in the back being picked up was outright fuckery.  everyone saw it.  the hold on Whittington cost us points.  Washington did the same thing on WR screens multiple times with no call.

[Frank Drebin 5621]

The Watts play where he hit the guy in the stomach and the late hit block in the back being picked up were awful calls.

I also think the whistle blowing on the Blue fumble could have easily affected the recovery of the ball.

[Aly 3]

9 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Fuck you, your refs and your shitty team. Enjoy getting mudholed by michigan

[MirrOlure 14625]

Well, that’s a rule. It is there to prevent players from diving at the knees of on coming blockers. However, the Texas player hit the OL above the waist and should not have been flagged in that situation.

It was a fucking dipshit ref predetermining that he was going to flex his dicklessness by calling a new and obscure penalty. Fucker was 20 yards behind the play when he threw the flag.

[Dennis Taylor 18706]

9 hours ago, Hammerin Hank said:

A buddy sent me this screenshot. Of course no call 

Well Banks is also in the backfield TBH...

This crew was really bad at spotting the ball ..the play right before the one that got reviewed and moved back was worse than the one that got reviewed, he was given a full yard. 

Refs weren't great but Penix was death and their receivers made some great contested catches. Baxter and Blue have the potential to be a great duo but ball security issues have to get fixed. 

[Levi 2576]

Spotting was also quite confusing. The obvious fourth and one stop we had and they still wanted to do a measurement was dumb. It was a full yard and a half. Then the excellent play made by Barron where he stopped the receiver, a yard short, and they gave Washington first down by full yard. The discrepancy with the little things that add up over the course of the game is what was making me the most angry at the refs. 

[Armybrat 40735]

2 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Now now, no need to go all Looch on the loser ag troll.

Screen shot of the loser ag troll….

 

[Vic Mackey 46935]

7 minutes ago, Levi said:

Spotting was also quite confusing. The obvious fourth and one stop we had and they still wanted to do a measurement was dumb. It was a full yard and a half. Then the excellent play made by Barron where he stopped the receiver, a yard short, and they gave Washington first down by full yard. The discrepancy with the little things that add up over the course of the game is what was making me the most angry at the refs. 

Agreed. The play where we stopped them well short of the sticks on that pass on 3rd down. Gave them the 1st until Sark came out and told them to fuck off and they looked at. And then when we stopped them on the run on 3rd and 1, they gave them a real generous spot and the 4th down play became shorter. Not to mention got another generous spot on the 4th down play and came out and measured.

 

[troph 24562]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

In a close game, bonus yards on spots, two different rulebook officiating absolutely matters and influences the game.  At the end, it is a DPI that gets called and puts us at the goal line and we waltz in for the score and the win.  The earlier DPI gets their DBs to back off a little.  The holding makes Penix seem untouchable and negates the entire defensive lines ability to get pressure advantage we had and it wears down the defense faster than otherwise.   It gave him a whole lot of time to make his throws which is easier for a 6th year QB than it is for a 2nd year QB who was given significantly less time.   Heck the officials allowed Penix to throw the ball past the LOS, ignored illegal procedure and an ineligible lineman downfield on passing plays.   That absolutely matters. 

Sark being cute and forgetting to run the ball was a huge mistake.   The offensive line performance was meh and Jones regressed.   The ball security was another absurd mistake and having Kelian Robinson returning was just unconscionable.  Put Arch Manning back there would have been a better decision.  In spite of the coaching absurdity and mistakes by the players,  in the end, another non-call seals the game.   That absolutely points out how much the referee fuckery impacted the game.   

BTW the hit on Ewers wasn't reviewed for targeting.  It was the same type of hit that got our player ejected from the b12 title game.   Different crews, but same shit.

 

I agree completely and the refs were 5% of the game. maybe that's enough to turn it, but look we can point to 3-4 major factors that were way more influential.

[Keef 757]

The Watts block in the back (which happened after the play) should have been a dead ball personal foul.  So they're sitting at 2nd and 25 and we potentially get the ball back to tie with really advantageous field position.  That absolutely could have swung the game and the call was just so painfully obvious.  Why on earth did they pick up the flag?

[Jersey Man10 3508]

Because Sark called them out on it.

[Laxtonto 11929]

I think the no call on Pennix being over the line of scrimmage was the most egregious to me because it is supposed to be absolutely monitored by the line judge… I get the tendency to drift upfield post snap, but the guy on that side of the field was 4 yards up field with his body positioned to look up field and so there was no way he could have even attempted to make the call…

 

Beyond the lack of interior holding calls and one take down of Burke the OLine play by the UW OL was pretty solid in pass pro. There was 2 egregious holds on the two longer runs by the RG that I saw, but we got away with a few of that type in the running game.

[Scholz 11933]

I'm just impressed that their Oline didn't hold a single time last night.  Impressive.

[dec3169 501]

11 hours ago, Hammerin Hank said:

A buddy sent me this screenshot. Of course no call 

Yeah I commented on that when it happened last night.  No way the refs didn't see his foot even with the football.

[dec3169 501]

2 hours ago, FloridaHorn said:

Well, that’s a rule. It is there to prevent players from diving at the knees of on coming blockers. However, the Texas player hit the OL above the waist and should not have been flagged in that situation.

I'm thankful the other guy wasn't a midget or we would've been called for targeting.

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

40 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I think the no call on Pennix being over the line of scrimmage was the most egregious to me because it is supposed to be absolutely monitored by the line judge… I get the tendency to drift upfield post snap, but the guy on that side of the field was 4 yards up field with his body positioned to look up field and so there was no way he could have even attempted to make the call…

 

Beyond the lack of interior holding calls and one take down of Burke the OLine play by the UW OL was pretty solid in pass pro. There was 2 egregious holds on the two longer runs by the RG that I saw, but we got away with a few of that type in the running game.

I don’t think he was completely over the los. His back foot was over but he was leaning backwards and I think his left shoulder was still on the line. At least I didn’t see any replays that showed his entire body was completely past for sure. 

[ousux 5586]

Big10 crew does seem a little unfair, wonder if UW would have screamed if we got SEC refs? I guess ACC would have been the most impartial...unless we got an FSU grad/fan that blames us for taking the Noles playoff spot and not Bama.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

17 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I don’t think he was completely over the los. His back foot was over but he was leaning backwards and I think his left shoulder was still on the line. At least I didn’t see any replays that showed his entire body was completely past for sure. 

He can’t lean backwards two yards. His feet showed where he was and we shouldn’t need a straight line shot down the LOS to get that call right. 
 

Why was the late hit on Quinn not reviewed for targeting?

[dcar00 14035]

2 hours ago, MirrOlure said:

It was a fucking dipshit ref predetermining that he was going to flex his dicklessness by calling a new and obscure penalty. Fucker was 20 yards behind the play when he threw the flag.

the need to call and look for obscure penalties against us is just weird.  especially from refs that are 20 yards away.

[Not that Bob 734]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He can’t lean backwards two yards. His feet showed where he was and we shouldn’t need a straight line shot down the LOS to get that call right. 
 

Why was the late hit on Quinn not reviewed for targeting?

The hit at 5:50 third quarter? We would have definitely gotten a late hit or roughing the quarterback called were teams reversed. 

[Laxtonto 11929]

1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He can’t lean backwards two yards. His feet showed where he was and we shouldn’t need a straight line shot down the LOS to get that call right. 
 

Why was the late hit on Quinn not reviewed for targeting?

Because this isnt the B12....

I jest, but we got so conditioned that every play gets reviewed for targeting in the B12 we expect a review... That was all shoulder, late but all shoulder.

The one I am curious on is the hit on Ewers after the throw in which his head hit the turf. That is much more likely a late hit flag than the other was targeting.

[dcar00 14035]

3 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

Because this isnt the B12....

I jest, but we got so conditioned that every play gets reviewed for targeting in the B12 we expect a review... That was all shoulder, late but all shoulder.

The one I am curious on is the hit on Ewers after the throw in which his head hit the turf. That is much more likely a late hit flag than the other was targeting.

does college football have the no diving at the QB's knees rule like the NFL?

Also, I give Ewers big props on that.  He went to grab his head and stopped.  he knew if he did they would force him to be looked at.  I think his bell was rung and that is why he was trying to take it easy on the sideline.

he has his faults but he's tough.

Edited January 2 by dcar00

[DFW Horn 6118]

14 minutes ago, ousux said:

Big10 crew does seem a little unfair, wonder if UW would have screamed if we got SEC refs? I guess ACC would have been the most impartial...unless we got an FSU grad/fan that blames us for taking the Noles playoff spot and not Bama.

It should've been an ACC crew or MWC or AAC...whatever. I can't believe UW's new B1G affiliation was overlooked.

Ridiculous 

[Pato del Muerto 52342]

13 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He can’t lean backwards two yards. His feet showed where he was and we shouldn’t need a straight line shot down the LOS to get that call right. 

Unless there was a play other than the one that got reviewed, his plant foot was around a foot past the los. 

[Gucci_Suit 2610]

Well- as the SEC and Big 10 transition out of the NCAA, we will likely have professional refs that are paid by both conferences (or by more than 2). Conference affiliations and biases are real, so the easy solution is to remove the affiliations. 

Edited January 2 by Gucci_Suit

[TrashMaster G 17387]

12 hours ago, sidis said:

The ref on our sideline was fucking blind and not capable of properly spotting a ball correctly. However, there was not a single penalty that Texas got that I disagreed with. They were all pretty obvious.

That said, on Washington’s last scoring drive for the FG, on first down, after losing two yards, they picked up a flag on what should have been a late hit unsportsmanlike for absolutely no fucking reason whatsoever. The guy absolutely decked Watts from behind after the play was over. It should have been 2nd and 27 up by 6. That was an absolute fuckjob and I’d really like to know what their justification for picking that flag up was. 

 

12 hours ago, Jshep34 said:

Replay clearly showed he got hit square in the back. No question that should have been unsportsmanlike. Had to explain to my kid, it doesn't matter just like all sports refs are never held accountable (i.e. termination) it's part of the human element. But picking up that flag was completely inexcusable

I'm guessing that their justification for picking up the flag is that the hit - which they were going to call a block in the back - happened after the play was over, i.e. the ball carrier went out of bounds.

It SHOULD have been called a dead ball foul, but it gave them the opening to pick up the flag.

[Royale with cheese 1458]

Occam's razor. Y'all are making it waaaay too complicated. The moment I saw the refs come out of their dressing room with their seeing-eye dogs and noticed that all their white canes had B1G logos, I knew we were toast. 

[Both Tacos 1805]

A buddy sent me this screenshot. Of course no call 

How in the world is our coaching staff not going ape shit on the sidelines to the side judge for the non-call? Somebody should have been all up the refs on that one. Not one, but 2 SJ missed it? That's horrible.
I felt that Sark took the pick up of the block in the back flag kind of soft. I saw he argued for about 2 seconds and then looked down at his sheet. I know as a coach you want to keep your focus on the game, but we were on D and Sark should have been in the ear of the refs through that next play.
Since I wasn't at the game, the staff may have been going ballistic but usually you can tell even on TV.

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Both Tacos said:

How in the world is our coaching staff not going ape shit on the sidelines to the side judge for the non-call? Somebody should have been all up the refs on that one. Not one, but 2 SJ missed it? That's horrible.
I felt that Sark took the pick up of the block in the back flag kind of soft. I saw he argued for about 2 seconds and then looked down at his sheet. I know as a coach you want to keep your focus on the game, but we were on D and Sark should have been in the ear of the refs through that next play.
Since I wasn't at the game, the staff may have been going ballistic but usually you can tell even on TV.

This is a problem with being the OC and HC.  you have no real time to work the refs, especially when you are on offense, and it is bad form to have other coaches yelling at refs. They will get flags.  they take it from the HC but not the others.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

Big10 crew does seem a little unfair, wonder if UW would have screamed if we got SEC refs? I guess ACC would have been the most impartial...unless we got an FSU grad/fan that blames us for taking the Noles playoff spot and not Bama.

All hell would’ve broken out especially if Bama had beaten Michigan and was waiting for the winner of this game. And had we won with SEC Refs, even aggy would join in on the conspiracy talk. They would probably be leading it. Those damn sips via our own Refs got ESPN their matchup.

[Nueces River Rat 5529]

I'm just impressed that their Oline didn't hold a single time last night.  Impressive.

Just like Okie State 2022…. Another team that slugs the ball around doesn’t get one hold called. Totally legit.

[dcar00 14035]

27 minutes ago, TrashMaster G said:

 

I'm guessing that their justification for picking up the flag is that the hit - which they were going to call a block in the back - happened after the play was over, i.e. the ball carrier went out of bounds.

It SHOULD have been called a dead ball foul, but it gave them the opening to pick up the flag.

this.  the only incorrect move is to pick up the flag, which they chose, because Big 10/Wash.  It needed to be first and 20 or first and 25.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6554]

35 minutes ago, Gucci_Suit said:

Well- as the SEC and Big 10 transition out of the NCAA, we will likely have professional refs that are paid by both conferences (or by more than 2). Conference affiliations and biases are real, so the easy solution is to remove the affiliations. 

Professional refs like the NFL has?  That doesn't work so well either.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

3 hours ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

One thing sark needs to get better about is working the officials. That’s got more to do with call discrepancy than a conspiracy against Texas. I hate that it’s part of the game but it seems to work for other coaches.

I was watching the radio sync broadcast where they don’t show commercials.  He spent several full timeouts talking with the officials. Not cussing them out but what appeared to be a level headed conversation. 

[sidis 9743]

13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

this.  the only incorrect move is to pick up the flag, which they chose, because Big 10/Wash.  It needed to be first and 20 or first and 25.

it should have either been 1st and 20 (for illegal block in the back) or it should have been 2nd and 27 (dead ball unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike) after the play resulted in a two yard loss.

Edited January 2 by sidis

[Gucci_Suit 2610]

7 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Professional refs like the NFL has?  That doesn't work so well either.

They’re all ass. It just removes the bias conversation. 

Regardless, pretty sure this is happening soon. 

Edited January 2 by Gucci_Suit

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

it should have either been 1st and 25 (for illegal block in the back) or it should have been 2nd and 27 (dead ball unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike) after the play resulted in a two yard loss.

good point.  so what the officials said is you can shove a guy after the whistle(dead ball) and it can be picked up if the original call was block in the back(during play).

I can already see the discussion

flag ref "I have a block in the back"

white hat Big 10/Wash ref " are you sure?  was it during the play?"  " I think so"

other big 10/Wash ref "I have it after the play"

white hat "was it unnecessary roughness?"

flag ref "well it wasn't egregious"

white hat "got it. we will pick it up since it wasn't roughing"

good to know for the future.

[sidis 9743]

Just now, dcar00 said:

good point.  so what the officials said is you can shove a guy after the whistle(dead ball) and it can be picked up if the original call was block in the back(during play).

I can already see the discussion

flag ref "I have a block in the back"

white hat Big 10/Wash ref " are you sure?  was it during the play?"  " I think so"

other big 10/Wash ref "I have it after the play"

white hat "was it unnecessary roughness?"

flag ref "well it wasn't egregious"

white hat "got it. we will pick it up since it wasn't roughing"

good to know for the future.

i edited above but i mis-stated.  should have been 1st and 20 if a block in the back.

i really don't attribute malice here when incompetence will suffice.  the notion that big 10 officials would consciously or subconsciously favor washington seems like a stretch to me.  with the exception of the line judge on our sideline...he was really bothering me all night as he seemed especially bad at his job.  being big 10 refs, that game had to feel like it was in fast forward the whole time and they were likely struggling to keep up.

but the conversation as you have played it out has to be something close to it...there really isn't another plausible explanation.  and if that is right, then they are too fucking stupid to keep their jobs.

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

58 minutes ago, Both Tacos said:

How in the world is our coaching staff not going ape shit on the sidelines to the side judge for the non-call? Somebody should have been all up the refs on that one. Not one, but 2 SJ missed it? That's horrible.
I felt that Sark took the pick up of the block in the back flag kind of soft. I saw he argued for about 2 seconds and then looked down at his sheet. I know as a coach you want to keep your focus on the game, but we were on D and Sark should have been in the ear of the refs through that next play.
Since I wasn't at the game, the staff may have been going ballistic but usually you can tell even on TV.

Take away the big black line that isn't actually on the field and just look at the football. He's still offsides by a toe, but that's not that easy to see and not really all that blatant. 

[TrashMaster G 17387]

21 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point.  so what the officials said is you can shove a guy after the whistle(dead ball) and it can be picked up if the original call was block in the back(during play).

I can already see the discussion

flag ref "I have a block in the back"

white hat Big 10/Wash ref " are you sure?  was it during the play?"  " I think so"

other big 10/Wash ref "I have it after the play"

white hat "was it unnecessary roughness?"

flag ref "well it wasn't egregious"

white hat "got it. we will pick it up since it wasn't roughing"

good to know for the future.

That's pretty much how I expect it went. 

[TexasGolf 4856]

39 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point.  so what the officials said is you can shove a guy after the whistle(dead ball) and it can be picked up if the original call was block in the back(during play).

I can already see the discussion

flag ref "I have a block in the back"

white hat Big 10/Wash ref " are you sure?  was it during the play?"  " I think so"

other big 10/Wash ref "I have it after the play"

white hat "was it unnecessary roughness?"

flag ref "well it wasn't egregious"

white hat "got it. we will pick it up since it wasn't roughing"

good to know for the future.

[Nivek 16857]

i edited above but i mis-stated.  should have been 1st and 20 if a block in the back.
i really don't attribute malice here when incompetence will suffice.  the notion that big 10 officials would consciously or subconsciously favor washington seems like a stretch to me.  with the exception of the line judge on our sideline...he was really bothering me all night as he seemed especially bad at his job.  being big 10 refs, that game had to feel like it was in fast forward the whole time and they were likely struggling to keep up.
but the conversation as you have played it out has to be something close to it...there really isn't another plausible explanation.  and if that is right, then they are too fucking stupid to keep their jobs.

Incompetence is systemic, not biased.

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

On ball placement:

Aside from the examples above, there seemed to be an unnatural location for spots throughout the game for UW.

What I mean is that in the normal course of a game, you see a play, you see the spot, you make a mental check, ok and move on.

In this game, there were many times where I thought, "that's not quite right".  On over half I would say there was no replay shown to provide confirmation. It just felt a little weird. I would say mostly in the first half.