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Bill Belichick no longer coaching in new england

BurntOrange&White

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

Posted
Posted

Long response and my avatar pretty much tells my view on this but there is an awful lot of idiocy in this thread.  Guy was one of if not the best head coaches ever and was an amazing GM for most of those 24 years.     Belichick went all in for the last 4 years of Brady's time in New England knowing they would have some issues with the salary cap and player talent going forward.  That lead to super bowls in 3 of those 4 years.  When Brady left the team was stuck with aging players, no cap space, etc... but Bill did that to maximize what he thought was the end of Brady's playing days (Bill was off on that by a few years just like most sane people were).  Brady was smart to leave just like the Patriots were smart to part ways at that time because they weren't going to win any more Super Bowls with that team whether Brady stayed or left.  Brady picked the Bucs because they were loaded with everything except a QB and that is why they were able to win the SB.  Yeah, Brady is the GOAT and of course my favorite player but if he goes to a team with no talent he would have struggled.  It is similar to when Lebron left Cleveland to a loaded team with Miami and then when Miami was on the way down due to injuries, age and cap issues he jumped to a loaded team back in Cleveland.  Back to Belichick, he did mess up GM wise these last few years.  Most of his moves did not pan out but that happens to pretty much every GM.  He missed in the draft and Free Agency but most importantly, he missed on finding an average at best QB.  This year's team was decimated by injuries which is why they ended up with 4 wins versus what probably should have been 8-9 wins (still not great but the team lacks talent based on Bill the GM not Bill the coach).  Lastly, as great as Brady was, many of those Super Bowls were won by the defense, especially the first 3 when Brady was more of a game manager.  Even later on, the Rams super bowl a few years ago was really the defense that won that game.   

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Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:
17 minutes ago, slorch said:
12 win seasons, 3X in a row.
1 WC playoff win. That’s his fucking body of work.
Yeah!  So fucking juiced.

Now do Bill Belichik after Brady...

One fewer playoff win.  Same SBs.  Way the fuck less talent on his team.

If we’re going full circle on this drill, now do Fathead Mike with a future HoFer at QB.

Edited by slorch
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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4741

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Posted
eye roll
I'm not including his stint as a HC in the NFL in the comparison, just like I'm not including Belichick's failure as a HC at the Cleveland Browns
Saban and Belichick are both good coaches. 
Saban did extraordinary well at LSU & Alabama because both schools had a talent advantage (due to bag game) that Saban didn't have at MSU or NFL
Belichick did extraordinary well at Patriots because he had a talent advantage at QB (due to luck) that Belichick didn't have at Browns or Post-Brady Patriots. 

You have a really bad take here. Belichik isn’t just best coach ever in the NFL, but he was also the best GM in the league during that period. He built those teams himself. Scouted the draft picks and kept his notes as players elsewhere came up as FA and trades. By far he made more trades himself, often more than the rest of the league combined.

He achieved all that in a league purposely built to not allow a dynasty or that kind of domination. Bill outworked most coaches with totally custom game plans each week. He reworked his team strategy each season to fit his personnel, whether it was a run focused team or a Randy moss pass crazy offense. Of course he succeeded with better players; he’s the one that signed them.

Again Saban is also a harder working HC than most. A lot of these guys are playing angry birds in their office; Saban still coaches the DBs. He outrecruits everyone. So of course he has better players.
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aggie08

aggie08 21508

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Look, Bill is obviously a great coach. But, like Pop, his "buttoned-down, no frills, team above all else, winning is a process, take less money" approach requires complete buy-in from the top down. Pop got that with Duncan; Bill got it with Brady.

It was a perfect marriage of player and coach. But Tom would have been great anywhere. Not 7 Super Bowls great, but great nonetheless. Can anyone confidently say that Bill would have won a Super Bowl, much less multiple, without Brady? Almost 200 games of sub-.500 football without Tom is a pretty damn big sample size at this point. Drew Bledsoe wasn't exactly a slouch, and Bill started his Patriot career 5-13 with him before Tom was forced in, and the rest was history.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33041

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Posted (edited)

With respect to the argument that it was all Tom Brady, here are playoff scores from their titles together. 

16-13, 24-17, 20-17 over perhaps the best offense ever at the time

17-14, 24-14, 32-29, two titles and Brady's offense scored 25 points exactly once in 6 playoff wins so far and averaged 22.2 ppg (average NFL offense) 

20-3, 41-27, 24-21

--------- (this is the transition) 

35-31, 45-7, 28-24 their 4th title was the first one where the offense produced well in the playoffs

34-16, 36-17, 34-28

41-28, 37-31, 13-3(!!!)

4 out of their 6 titles together don't happen if their defense wasn't excellent when it mattered. They were both awesome and neither would have won nearly as much without the other. 

And the above doesn't even include Brady leading one of the greatest offenses ever to the below playoff scores

31-20, 21-12, 14-17

Averaged 36.8 ppg in the season then 22 in the playoffs. 

Edited by Huckleberry
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gernblansten

gernblansten 3197

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The amount of time arguing about how BB is only good because of Brady is absurd. What's Bill Walsh's record with Montana? How many Super Bowls did Chuck Noll win without Bradshaw? Put Brady on the Browns out of Michigan and how many Super Bowls does he win? It's easy to say Brady would be great anywhere.  It's also foolish. NFL is littered with talented QBs that could win in the right situation that never get the chance to be winners because of where they're drafted. The Patriots won, and lost, Super Bowls by the tiniest of margins on some 50/50 plays. End of game FGs. Helmet catch. Manningham catch. Butler interception. Is Brady looked at differently if he's 5-5 in Super Bowls instead of 7-3? 4-6? How many Super Bowls did Jimmy win without Aikman and Emmitt? Jimmy was 36-29 in Miami. 2-3 in the playoffs. IIRC, last seen getting absolutely boat raced by the Jacksonville Jaguars in the playoffs. Anyone who doesn't think BB is one of the absolute best defensive coaches and best head coaches in football history is suspect.

Great coaches and great players somehow seem to win together. 

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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9646

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23 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

With respect to the argument that it was all Tom Brady, here are playoff scores from their titles together. 

16-13, 24-17, 20-17 over perhaps the best offense ever at the time

17-14, 24-14, 32-29, two titles and Brady's offense scored 25 points exactly once in 6 playoff wins so far and averaged 22.2 ppg (average NFL offense) 

20-3, 41-27, 24-21

--------- (this is the transition) 

35-31, 45-7, 28-24 their 4th title was the first one where the offense produced well in the playoffs

34-16, 36-17, 34-28

41-28, 37-31, 13-3(!!!)

4 out of their 6 titles together don't happen if their defense wasn't excellent when it mattered. They were both awesome and neither would have won nearly as much without the other. 

And the above doesn't even include Brady leading one of the greatest offenses ever to the below playoff scores

31-20, 21-12, 14-17

Averaged 36.8 ppg in the season then 22 in the playoffs. 

Like many have said i think it was a perfect marriage. Bill was able to get to those spots and show his brilliance because Brady and the offense just never made mistakes and always beat the shit out of that division, giving them great records where they could be highly seeded year after year.

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Deej

Deej 76858

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Just now, AnotherLawyer said:

How did the last Super Bowl-winning Bill who went to Dallas after coaching New England work out?

I'm not saying it would work out all that well, but Jerry is a moron who Bill could probably manipulate just enough to get him the all-time win total before he bows out. 

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38129

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Bill Belichick is a good coach, but Tom Brady was his superpower

Saban is a good coach, but dropping bags was his superpower

Steve Sarkisian is a good coach, but NIL is his superpower

If you take away these advantages, their records would look different. 

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11147

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Let's say Houston embarrasses the Browns on Saturday, the Browns overreact and fire their HC Stefanski (they are the Browns after all), then they give BB 20 million a year for 7 years, biggest coaching contract in history, and BB gets to figure out how to fix Deshaun Watson and toy around with the best defense in the league. Bill gets to go back to Cleveland and try bring a Super Bowl to one of the worst franchises in all of major US sports!  

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The Ace of Aces

The Ace of Aces 5193

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

With respect to the argument that it was all Tom Brady, here are playoff scores from their titles together. 

16-13, 24-17, 20-17 over perhaps the best offense ever at the time

17-14, 24-14, 32-29, two titles and Brady's offense scored 25 points exactly once in 6 playoff wins so far and averaged 22.2 ppg (average NFL offense) 

20-3, 41-27, 24-21

--------- (this is the transition) 

35-31, 45-7, 28-24 their 4th title was the first one where the offense produced well in the playoffs

34-16, 36-17, 34-28

41-28, 37-31, 13-3(!!!)

4 out of their 6 titles together don't happen if their defense wasn't excellent when it mattered. They were both awesome and neither would have won nearly as much without the other. 

And the above doesn't even include Brady leading one of the greatest offenses ever to the below playoff scores

31-20, 21-12, 14-17

Averaged 36.8 ppg in the season then 22 in the playoffs. 

You can basically break it down and say the first 3 SBs were because of BB, the last 3 because Brady. Together they get 6. Anyone who says he's not the GOAT is just being obtuse imo. His success is really not even comparable to any other coach. 

Edited by The Ace of Aces
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Hank Chinaski

Hank Chinaski 6315

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Why is this always presented a a binary choice? Isn’t the most likely answer that they’re both great, and they both necessarily had to be great to accomplish what they did?

Brady in 2001 wasn’t anything like what Brady became in later years. That team won it all on scheme and defense. In those early years, NE was thought of as a defensive team that was good enough on offense.

And to Huck’s point - the SB losses to the Giants (and many other playoff games) were low-scoring games and, at least one of them required an improbable miracle play by the NYG to win it. (Conversely, they won a SB because the Seahawks threw a pass at the goal line despite having the best short-yardage RB in the league. Game of inches I guess.)

You don’t do what NE did for 20 years without a great coach AND a great QB. It’s silly to try to dissect who gets credit for what. 

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4741

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The nfl is littered with great qb prospects who went to shitty teams that had shitty coaches, zero qb development, shitty o lines and run games, etc. Brady lucked into the exact perfect situation for him. Had he gone to any of the typical revolving door franchise he might not have had the chance to develop. The magic of Bill is partly his emphasis on having smart players who are coachable and listen to criticism and will practice hard. The greatness of Brady is in his coachability and work ethic. Few players have been as driven.

24 seasons and 10 Super Bowls. That’s incredible and is a record that won’t be broken.

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Beantown Express 2.0

Beantown Express 2.0 6559

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1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:
3 hours ago, Underdog said:
I know Coaches are wound differently but just hang it up, Bill.  You’ve had a hell of a run and why risk the legacy.
 

It's probably because Brady went to TB and won. He can't let it go .

Actually, he wants Don Shula's wins record and that is what he is really after.  Another Super Bowl would be gravy.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13251

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5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

828F41A9-47BB-4537-A7B4-2692BD0E3CE8.jpeg

Still it isn't like if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Lions we would be discussing the retirement of six time Super Bowl winning coach Marty Mornhinweg right now. I mean probably not...

 

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22072

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I think over the past couple of years Kraft started to see (I think it’s true)/ or come to believe that Brady was the straw that stirred the Patriots’ success drink. Perhaps. Plus, Bill isn’t a fun get to know you guy at least with work peeps. Even though it was a severing of a 20 year partnership I think Kraft soured on Bill when Brady left and it just went further downhill when the Bucs won the SB and so on. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54312

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3 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

3 12 win seasons in a row? Something that hasnt happened in Dallas since you know who was around? I dont think mccarthy is the best coach ever or anything but i just dont get how fans think that he's a complete tard. If he was skinny or in shape like Dan Campbell would people think that? People sure are giving Campbell a big pass for some really dumb coaching decisions.

1.  McCarthy is a complete tard.  

2.  His players play their asses off for him (as much as any NFL coach you'll ever see), which 95% eliminates #1.

He's basically a bizarro world Jason Garrett.

 

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Pam Cummings

Pam Cummings 9646

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

1.  McCarthy is a complete tard.  

2.  His players play their asses off for him (as much as any NFL coach you'll ever see), which 95% eliminates #1.

He's basically a bizarro world Jason Garrett.

 

I just don't understand how he has nothing to do with any of the winning, but as soon as they lose, it's 100% completely his fault. The guy is a super bowl win away from being a no doubt hall of fame coach.

 

Or people that hold the opinion that Dak and McCarthy both suck. Someone is responsible for the offense doing well, so who is it?

Edited by Pam Cummings
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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

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1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

Still it isn't like if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Lions we would be discussing the retirement of six time Super Bowl winning coach Marty Mornhinweg right now. I mean probably not...

 

It would be awesome if we were.  Oh, what could have been...

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21154

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18 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I just don't understand how he has nothing to do with any of the winning, but as soon as they lose, it's 100% completely his fault. The guy is a super bowl win away from being a no doubt hall of fame coach.

 

Or people that hold the opinion that Dak and McCarthy both suck. Someone is responsible for the offense doing well, so who is it?

I think it's based entirely on their body of work in the playoffs.  Nobody really bags on their regular season accolades.  If they even get to a SB a lot of that narrative would die.  Especially this year as that road likely runs through SF.  

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Texzilla58

Texzilla58 4741

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Actually, he wants Don Shula's wins record and that is what he is really after.  Another Super Bowl would be gravy.

This. Bill might be the best nfl historian there is. He wants that place in history for most wins to go with most rings.
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Bevo

Bevo 13590

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1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

Bill's living the dream in retirement... I'm sure she's just an "old soul" who'd totally be into Bill if he weren't rich too, so it must be love.

Bill Belichick, 72, 'is dating a 24-YEAR-OLD former cheerleader' after calling off relationship with Linda Holliday

image.png.16948e89bdcddb6ef89a988d802c5550.pngimage.png.a728e6171cfb0483010bacece4c2816d.png

 

That could surely help my old soul straighten things out.

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gernblansten

gernblansten 3197

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2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Bill's living the dream in retirement... I'm sure she's just an "old soul" who'd totally be into Bill if he weren't rich too, so it must be love.

Bill Belichick, 72, 'is dating a 24-YEAR-OLD former cheerleader' after calling off relationship with Linda Holliday

image.png.16948e89bdcddb6ef89a988d802c5550.pngimage.png.a728e6171cfb0483010bacece4c2816d.png

She’s only dating Bill because he coached Brady.

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