Fire Rodney Terry

[UTEE97 3510]

1 hour ago, TejasPedro said:

Can one of the other coaches on the staff go off on the team, record it, then leak the video to make me think they actually care?

Watching Frank Haith's body language during the last game made me think he was clueless and didn't give a shit.

[HookEm 2463]

Hiring RT was about optics, but there was also a degree of loyalty involved.  You had a good, long-term assistant take over under extremely tough circumstances and lead us to the Elite 8.  He helped deflect all the attention off the Beard situation and shifted the focus to whether or not we would hire RT.  Not giving him a shot would have been poor form IMO.  But I think everyone involved knew that it was a long shot.

So... we gave him just about the minimum contract that wouldn't handcuff him on the recruiting trail.  And now that it looks like he isn't up to the task, I think we will move on fairly quickly.  It isn't like he is Shaka, with a National Coach of the Year award, who took his own team to the Final Four.

[ClubWhatever 12120]

Eh, the second year will be used as the old "we need to see some improvement" gage.  Most likely involving a staff change or two.  If there is actual improvement, then we can all look forward to a third year!

[jimmyjazz 45881]

God forbid we have improvement.  That would be contrary to the better interests of the program!

[HookEm 2463]

5 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Eh, the second year will be used as the old "we need to see some improvement" gage.  Most likely involving a staff change or two.  If there is actual improvement, then we can all look forward to a third year!

Exactly.  We get to be in a situation where we can't decide whether it is better to root for or against our own team.

[Js1 85270]

Just now, HookEm said:

Exactly.  We get to be in a situation where we can't decide whether it is better to root for or against our own team.

Ah yes, late stage Charlie/Shaka years.

[TejasPedro 1857]

The thing that sucks most, next year the SEC in basketball, is like a great big pussy just waiting to get fucked.
 

[closetohumping 17433]

56 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

God forbid we have improvement.  That would be contrary to the better interests of the program!

That does remind me a few people said Rodney could’ve won the title and they still wouldn’t want him

[shadow_operative 15932]

36 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

That does remind me a few people said Rodney could’ve won the title and they still wouldn’t want him

yeah, and time has proven us correct in saying that. nobody said, “if RT wins the title i want him gone”, we said, “i don’t care if this team which is currently being stewarded by RT wins the title, RT isn’t good enough as a HC to get this job full time.” and as we all can see, that was and remains to be true.

[shadow_operative 15932]

Penders, Barnes, Shaka (at VCU and Marquette 😡), and Beard all had systems that they recruit to. this has to be the case for our next coach as well. someone with a concrete philosophy to recruit to and fall back on. i’m watching the tennessee game right now and barnes has a never ending bench of 6’11” rick mahorns and bill laimbeers. injuries, foul trouble, whatever it is, he’s going to have the exact type of guys he needs on his bench.

what shaka’s dumb ass did at Texas, and what we are currently doing under RT, aka joust compiling talent and then figuring out how we play from there won’t work. i don’t need the next coach to have a name that rings out, but i (we) defintrly need him to have his own system that he knows and recruits to. the other way doesn’t work as well, and we’ve got decades of proof to go on. 

[Hookem2147 21188]

14 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

what shaka’s dumb ass did at Texas, and what we are currently doing under RT, aka joust compiling talent and then figuring out how we play from there won’t work. i don’t need the next coach to have a name that rings out, but i (we) defintrly need him to have his own system that he knows and recruits to. the other way doesn’t work as well, and we’ve got decades of proof to go on. 

I mean, if you compare the guys we have recruited/signed vs what returned on the roster and is currently out there is a pretty noticeable difference. Max Abmas/Tyrese Hunter vs Tre Johnson/Cam Scott from a skillset and physical stature couldn't be more different. Dillon Mitchell vs Nic Codie at the 4 spot couldn't be more different.

I'm with you on having a system to fall back and rely on, but you won't be able to assemble your ideal team for that system in year 1 using only the portal after your two HS signees bounce weeks before they enroll.

Now, if the argument is Terry didn't do a good enough patchwork of the roster with the portal to make things work for this year, I can see that argument. But he also probably under pressure to accept back guys like Dillon Mitchell, Cunningham and Hunter even if they didn't fit his preferred style. Could you imagine this board if he let Hunter walk to the portal after already losing Morris and all the other stuff that happened with Johnson/Holland.

Edited January 16 by Hookem2147

[shadow_operative 15932]

good post, that’s all true. i would just say that RT doesn’t appear to have his own system or at least philosophy to fall back on. i don’t know that there are recruits or transfers out there that you could describe as “rodney terry’s type of player” the way you could with, for example, cisse and chris beard.

[shadow_operative 15932]

the site crapped out while i was editing my post. here is my edit:

in fact watching Ole Miss the other night they already looked like a "chris beard team". they play with attitude, they play with tenacity, they defend the paint and block shots like crazy- they've got all the hallmarks.

just as a post script, they're also leading the country in three point shooting, which is a scary thought.

[Hookem2147 21188]

26 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

good post, that’s all true. i would just say that RT doesn’t appear to have his own system or at least philosophy to fall back on. i don’t know that there are recruits or transfers out there that you could describe as “rodney terry’s type of player” the way you could with, for example, cisse and chris beard.

I do believe there was an overcorrection between the grind-it-out offense that Beard wanted to pair with an elite defense and Terry telling people he wanted to play faster and with more offensive freedom to attract the Tre Johnsons of the world. I remember people saying in 2021-2022 that they wanted Beard to get a new assistant in who could bring fresh offensive ideas and what not. Turns out the offense improved as the Courtney Ramey and Devin Askews of the world departed and Jabari Rices and Tyrese Hunters entered.

How many of the defensive issues could be fixed with more length at guard and more depth on the bench so a guy like IT Horton doesn't have to give you 15 minutes a night? As you've discussed before, is Max Abmas possibly hurting this team in some ways as much as he's helping it?

Any and all negatives about this team are fair game and should be discussed, including style of play. All I'm saying is if you compare the roster now vs what is in the pipeline there are some stark differences. Maybe that's something to look forward to or maybe it's a terrifying thought for some. You infuse this roster with Codie, Johnson and Scott, add a real PG who can actually operate off the dribble and defend and my interest is at least piqued.

Edited January 16 by Hookem2147

[Newdoc 3439]

If RT has a “system”, then the current roster is either ignorant or has willingly been obstinate in running the “system”.  I’ve seen enough Texas basketball this year to know there is no system.

Maybe, there is a series of broken plays attempted by players who don’t have the tools to perform. But this isn’t just unfortunate recruiting and retention.

[HookEm 2463]

The roster isn't the issue. I actually give RT an "A" for getting this roster assembled in the timeframe that he did it. Abmas was a GREAT add. I mean he just about single handedly took Oral Roberts to the Sweet 16 and earned All Region honors.  Disu is a fringe All-American. Shedrick was a great add.  Getting Mitchell to come back was a nice feat. 

And the portal guys we lost were either knuckleheads (see Arterio Morris) or not major contributors (see Rowan Brumbaugh).

And he has done a great job recruiting HS for 2025.  Right now we have #5 Tre Johnson, #37 Cam Scott and #46 Nicolas Codie.  That is a potentially great class.

The problem is that the sum of all this talent is less than the parts. They play hard, but don't play effectively. The individual and team defense is nowhere close to what it could be.  The offense has no identity. It is frustrating AF to watch. 

[Hookem2147 21188]

6 minutes ago, HookEm said:

The roster isn't the issue. I actually give RT an "A" for getting this roster assembled in the timeframe that he did it. Abmas was a GREAT add. I mean he just about single handedly took Oral Roberts to the Sweet 16 and earned All Region honors.  Disu is a fringe All-American. Shedrick was a great add.  Getting Mitchell to come back was a nice feat. 

And the portal guys we lost were either knuckleheads (see Arterio Morris) or not major contributors (see Rowan Brumbaugh).

And he has done a great job recruiting HS for 2025.  Right now we have #5 Tre Johnson, #37 Cam Scott and #46 Nicolas Codie.  That is a potentially great class.

The problem is that the sum of all this talent is less than the parts. They play hard, but don't play effectively. The individual and team defense is nowhere close to what it could be.  The offense has no identity. It is frustrating AF to watch. 

But some of these points potentially tie into some of the issues. Getting Michell and Hunter back seemed nice in real time but do they actually fit what this team wants to do? In Mitchell's case, I actually applaud him for growing in ways where he could contribute because he's pretty much a square peg in a round hole in a college offense. The staff allowing more freedom offensively and wanting to run a little more isn't really his game.

Abmas has been an unbelievable addition as a pure scorer and shooter, but he is actually subpar at doing some of the dirty work required of a college PG (See the adjustment Marcus Carr had to make in year 1 which then led to a huge jump in year 2). I also think we make him too much of the focal point offensively at times which ties back into the identity issue. This goes back to the complaint that this team really doesn't have a true PG. Hunter can be at times but is inconsistent, and he just lacks the juice to beat guys off the dribble and make stuff happen in the lane. Shedrick has been a solid add and I was actually excited to get someone over 6'9 on this roster after the last 2 years but he can't seem to stay healthy.

Edited January 16 by Hookem2147

[freyguy 4261]

On 1/15/2024 at 2:27 PM, hobbes2702 said:

Texas is a top 5 or near job in each of the big 3. Football is tradition, recruiting base, and money. Basketball is money, facilities, and recruiting base. Baseball is the gold standard of baseball programs.

I’m not sure why people have so much trouble with this. You don’t have to be a blue blood to be a top top job, especially in the modern era.

pure frontier gibberish...

[jimmyjazz 45881]

In my highly uneducated mind, what Beard did was see where his guys' skills could eventually mesh, and he'd go with that as a process towards a late-conference peak.  Terry just seems to be flinging shit on the wall.

[HookEm 2463]

There is no doubt in my mind that if you gave this team to Bill Self (or Chris Beard or any of the top 10 college coaches), they would find a way to make them great. Our issues with Mitchell, Abmas, Hunter, Horton and others would not be as pronounced because the great coaches would develop them and also game plan around them such that they could be successful.

So credit RT for recruiting, but that was never a concern. He gets an F for developing chemistry. The team looks like they just met at the Y and are now playing pickup. And yes I know there was a lot of turnover and these guys haven’t had a ton of time together. But they aren’t getting any better as the season moves along. There doesn’t seem to be any leadership from the court or from the bench.

[Hookem2147 21188]

35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In my highly uneducated mind, what Beard did was see where his guys' skills could eventually mesh, and he'd go with that as a process towards a late-conference peak

Not to take anything away from the guy, but if that was his goal he wasn’t very good at it. The final 5 games in conference play his last few years.

2020: 1-4

2021: 3-2

2022: 2-3

He also had the inexplicable loss to 10 seed WVU in the Big 12 tournament in 2019 when Tech still ended up going to the national title game. He has had plenty of his teams have crap ends to the season and still flip a switch.

His speciality was always the big dance. He has never lost a round of 64 game. That is when he makes his money.

Edited January 17 by Hookem2147

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

I don't know enough about the buyout but if Billy Donovan becomes available I have zero doubt that Del Conte would make a move. 

In all honesty, this might be perfect timing if this is the year Donovan is actually fired. 

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

On 1/14/2024 at 3:59 PM, shadow_operative said:

last year was jerome tang’s first year as a HC. even if we were just trying to check a box he wouldn’t have been the guy. 

Based on 1 year of data, I would agree. But I think he would be very high on my wishlist based on how this season has gone without Tomlin. 

1) Baylor has seen a significant regression defensively without Tang. In 2 years, K-State's Adjd (Kenpom) is #21 and #27 with nowhere near the talent as some other schools. I think it's pretty clear that Tang is an incredible defensive mind. Seems like you set a pretty high floor with Tang much like Beard because of the defense. 

2) Tang has been damn good at building rosters/chemistry around transfers which is the way college basketball is trending. 

Tang actually reminds me a lot of Beard. 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

If Billy Donovan gets fired we should do everything we can to back channel and set that up. If he has mutual interest and gives up an indication that he'd coach here then you shit can Rodney Terry as fast as possible.

Edited January 17 by BurntOrange&White

[ClubWhatever 12120]

I'm afraid we can't do that, Dave.

[Brothahorn 10087]

It is funny to search google for "top college basketball coaches" and see three of our former coaches in the top-25.  Meanwhile... we have Rodney Terry.

[Pancho 44694]

We aren’t firing RT after 1 year regardless of if Donovan is available or not.

[Red Five 40827]

Why not. We hired him based on a few months coaching someone else's team. 

[Deej 76752]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

We aren’t firing RT after 1 year regardless of if Donovan is available or not.

We could just pay a woman to say he hit her. 

[Frank Drebin 5654]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:05 PM, 66BUFF said:

So aggy is a top 5 football job

If it was not surrounded by Texas, OU, and LSU in close proximity it might be.  But because of that, nope.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

25 minutes ago, Pancho said:

We aren’t firing RT after 1 year regardless of if Donovan is available or not.

Then we're retarded. More so than firing Beard....

Edited January 17 by BurntOrange&White

[Revolution512 1487]

-8.5 tonight vs UCF.  LOL

RT isn't getting fired any time soon.  We have to sit back and let it play out.  It won't go well, everyone can see it.  

[cafe society 2860]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

We could just pay a woman to say he hit her. 

Paging Randi Trew to the crazy bitch courtesy phone.

[cafe society 2860]

BTW, we had a PG with length on the roster but just let him walk.  Rowan Brumbaugh.  Getting 24 minutes/game under Ed Cooley at Georgetown.

[Hookem2147 21188]

1 hour ago, cafe society said:

BTW, we had a PG with length on the roster but just let him walk.  Rowan Brumbaugh.  Getting 24 minutes/game under Ed Cooley at Georgetown.

I've seen him play a few times this year and it's been a mixed bag. Shooting 37% from the field and averaging 2.5 turnovers a game. Will be interesting to see how he develops.

[cafe society 2860]

42 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

I've seen him play a few times this year and it's been a mixed bag. Shooting 37% from the field and averaging 2.5 turnovers a game. Will be interesting to see how he develops.

Agreed.  I still wish he was on our roster.

[hobbes2702 13029]

On 1/16/2024 at 11:10 AM, MrX said:

I don’t care about the “optics” of firing Rodney Terry as an indictment of his coaching ability, or based on his success last year, or based on some type of political blowback.  I’m more concerned about the chilling effect on hiring the next guy - what if a tremendous candidate that we could get in another 12 months if we hang on to Terry goes “One bad season, even if it’s the first one, and I could be out?  Fuck that, I’m not returning calls from Austin.”

Thats not how successful coaches think at all.

[Satchel 6925]

14 hours ago, Rickylovesweed said:

Based on 1 year of data, I would agree. But I think he would be very high on my wishlist based on how this season has gone without Tomlin. 

1) Baylor has seen a significant regression defensively without Tang. In 2 years, K-State's Adjd (Kenpom) is #21 and #27 with nowhere near the talent as some other schools. I think it's pretty clear that Tang is an incredible defensive mind. Seems like you set a pretty high floor with Tang much like Beard because of the defense. 

2) Tang has been damn good at building rosters/chemistry around transfers which is the way college basketball is trending. 

Tang actually reminds me a lot of Beard. 

Alas…what could have been. Tang is a star in the making.

[SL Xpress 7513]

7 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

-8.5 tonight vs UCF.  LOL

RT isn't getting fired any time soon.  We have to sit back and let it play out.  It won't go well, everyone can see it.  

Clayton Williams style!

[Rickylovesweed 14262]

9 hours ago, Pancho said:

We aren’t firing RT after 1 year regardless of if Donovan is available or not.

I don't buy this at all. 

Del Conte has shown he's willing to have a quick hook with coaches if the right situation presents itself. 

[Pancho 44694]

57 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I don't buy this at all. 

Del Conte has shown he's willing to have a quick hook with coaches if the right situation presents itself. 

Who has he fired after 1 year?

[MuellerHorn 4228]

Lol 

[Macklemore 2876]

Firing Chris Beard and hiring Rodney Terry is the worst thing that Texas athletics have done this century. It’s a decision that’s going to haunt us for a long ass time. We should have just suspended Beard for the season and reinstated him once charges were dropped. No one would have given a shit. I hope CDC and Hartzel’s eyes are open now. After Michigan got away with their sign stealing scandal with nary a scratch, that should be a sign that we can get away with shit when you have lots of lawyers and journalists as grads like Michigan.

Edited January 18 by Macklemore

[cafe society 2860]

I hate all you sanctimonious fucks who think you know everything.  Back to square one.

[ztejas 43411]

Come comment in my new thread about how I know more about basketball than all of you. 

 

 

[GreenspointTexas 9598]

It all comes down to if the athletic dept can admit they made a mistake and fire Terry as soon as the season is over

[Revolution512 1487]

I’m not sure Texas will win another game this year.

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Who has he fired after 1 year?

Rodney Terry if he keeps this shit up lol

[ChickenSandwich 9825]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Who has he fired after 1 year?

Exactly. CDC needs to bring in a new assistant coach (or two) midseason. Over pay. 
 

otherwise have the balls to make a change in year one and just pay out the contract or move him to administration 

[BurntOrange&White 39930]

6 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

Firing Chris Beard and hiring Rodney Terry is the worst thing that Texas athletics have done this century. It’s a decision that’s going to haunt us for a long ass time. We should have just suspended Beard for the season and reinstated him once charges were dropped. No one would have given a shit. I hope CDC and Hartzel’s eyes are open now. After Michigan got away with their sign stealing scandal with nary a scratch, that should be a sign that we can get away with shit when you have lots of lawyers and journalists as grads like Michigan.

This is the worst hire this century.