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Posted

Is Indiana a better job than Texas in this current landscape? No idea what their NIL situation is but I’m assuming it’s pretty good because it’s Indiana, but they also haven’t been consistently good in a long, long time.

Posted
Just now, Hookem2147 said:

Is Indiana a better job than Texas in this current landscape? No idea what their NIL situation is but I’m assuming it’s pretty good because it’s Indiana, but they also haven’t been consistently good in a long, long time.

They have Mark Cuban in their corner 

Posted
9 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Is Indiana a better job than Texas in this current landscape?

If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing. 

Ever heard of Purdue?…

https://purduesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Look at their roster composition and tell me how many games they’ve won on average over the past 10 seasons (and counting). Spoiler, what you just said about Dallas and winning 25 games per accordingly applies to Purdue with Indiana kids. Indiana produces plenty of DI talent.

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, ztejas said:

If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing. 

That isn't true at all. If you can recruit Indianapolis, St. Louis, Chicago, and Louisville, you will win a lot of games. Even Milwaukee isn't that far away nor is Nashville or Cincinnati.

Edited by Bevo
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Posted
19 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

Ever heard of Purdue?…

https://purduesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Look at their roster composition and tell me how many games they’ve won on average over the past 10 seasons (and counting). Spoiler, what you just said about Dallas and winning 25 games per accordingly applies to Purdue with Indiana kids. Indiana produces plenty of DI talent.

Recruiting at Texas is easier than recruiting at Indiana. 

Is that agreeable? 

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Posted
48 minutes ago, ztejas said:

CDC isn't worried about RT he's looking at houses in Preston Hollow.

 

Sure he wouldn’t get a house in University Park?

Maybe around Baltimore south our Lovers Lane. 

Or possibly on St. John’s just south of Mockingbird…

Don’t think that he could do Beverly, Armstrong, or Lakeside Drive no matter what kind of signing bonus he gets. 

If he rents for a year, perhaps he could build on the northwest corner of Kemper Ct & Hathaway, because the owners of that house have really let it go downhill, but it’s got nice acreage to entertain. 

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Posted

Longhorns’ latest loss to Commodores highlights how Rodney Terry’s club trending toward disappointing finish

Story by Brian Davis

Quote

At this point in the season, it’s obvious Texas can’t win games on sheer talent alone. It’s going to take creative play-calling and darn near perfect execution down the stretch to make the NCAAs.

That’s how close these one or two-possession games are on the margins.

It’s either that, or the Longhorns can take their champagne wishes and caviar dreams to the NIT.

Saturday’s 86-78 loss at Vanderbilt was the result of botched execution on both ends of Memorial Gymnasium. Texas (15-9) is now 4-7 in SEC play with home games against Alabama and Kentucky up next, followed by a bye date. This team has to figure out what it wants to be — and do it quick.

There’s nothing worse than watching winnable games slip through your fingers. That’s what happened against Tennessee, Auburn and Ole Miss. The same was true in Music City.

Sure, Vanderbilt’s playing great at home; the Commodores are now 12-1 in Nashville. But this one came down to sheer toughness. It’s arguable that Vanderbilt (17-6, 5-5) needed this one for its NCAA Tournament resume more than Texas, and it showed.

It also didn't help that Texas was without Tramon Mark, a game-time scratch because of a right shoulder issue. This team needs all hands on deck.

At times, the Horns played good defense but got sloppy on the glass. They gave up 25 second-chance points. Vanderbilt’s Jaylen Carey finished with a career-high 18 points while Jason Edwards and Tyler Nickel each pumped in 17 more.

“They got us on the glass,” Texas coach Rodney Terry said in a downbeat tone. “In this league, you can’t give up second-chance opportunities.”

At times, Texas had strong offensive play, as evidenced by a 15-2 run to close out the first half. But that dissipated down the stretch as the Commodores went up by six.

Texas’ Arthur Kaluma tried to force a difficult pocket pass through traffic to Kadin Shedrick. That ball was stolen. Tre Johnson then got fouled but missed the front end of a one-and-one at the free throw line. Kaluma missed a wide-open 3-pointer with 55 seconds left and then didn’t get the whistle on an off-balance shot late.

Vandy’s A.J. Hoggard fired downcourt to a streaking MJ Collins for a dunk with 26 seconds left, and it was over.

It was a perfect way for Hoggard to finish, really. He had a sizzling left-handed layup late and scored again by simply burying his right shoulder and knocking Shedrick back for an easy one in the paint.

Johnson finished with a team-high 15 points on 5-of-14 shooting. The Horns had four others finish in double figures. Normally, that should be more than enough. But in close games, everything is magnified.

It takes more than talent to win on the margins. Before they know it, the Horns will run out of chances to figure it out.  

 

Btw, can't believe he's back...

5zm0sb.gif

Posted
35 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Sure he wouldn’t get a house in University Park?

Maybe around Baltimore south our Lovers Lane. 

Or possibly on St. John’s just south of Mockingbird…

Don’t think that he could do Beverly, Armstrong, or Lakeside Drive no matter what kind of signing bonus he gets. 

If he rents for a year, perhaps he could build on the northwest corner of Kemper Ct & Hathaway, because the owners of that house have really let it go downhill, but it’s got nice acreage to entertain. 

Thank you for taking the piss with me.

Posted
14 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

Vitale doesn't scream anything, anymore, as he's been inhaling poison in his body via radiation for a few years now. 

No one is talking about whether or not he's a good analyst anymore. But the energy, passion and support of and by him for the game over the four decades is unmatched, by anyone. I never cared much for Vitale on the mic. But I love the sport and no one has supported it more over years.

Anyone who doesn't and can't acknowledge that is a fucking uninformed and unbridled idiot. 

Walked into my son’s room when he hs the Duke game on and vitale sounded horrible. He had no business calling a game. He’s espn’s basketball lee corso I guess. 

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Posted
14 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

Ever heard of Purdue?…

https://purduesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Look at their roster composition and tell me how many games they’ve won on average over the past 10 seasons (and counting). Spoiler, what you just said about Dallas and winning 25 games per accordingly applies to Purdue with Indiana kids. Indiana produces plenty of DI talent.

Having coaching continuity helps, too.  Since 1980, Purdue has had 2 basketball coaches - Gene Keady and Matt Painter.  And only 4 since 1950.

Right now, there are 7 roster folks with over 400 mins played this year.

  • Braden Smith: Westfield, IN (Indy suburb); mom and dad are basketball coaches
  • Fletcher Loyer: Fort Wayne, IN; Dad is a scout for the clippers; mother played volleyball in Lafayette and was an assistant coach at Purdue; Grandfather went to Purdue
  • Trey Kaufman-Renn: Sellersburg, IN (Louisville suburb); offers from IU, UNC, Louisville
  • Camden Heide: Minn; Utah private school.  Dad went to HS in Lafayette and graduated from Purdue. 
  • Myles Colvin: Indy; Dad is Roosevelt Colvin, who played football for 4 years at Purdue and 10 years in NFL.  Sister plays volleyball at Purdue
  • Caleb Furst: Fort Wayne, IN; 
  • CJ Cox: Lexington, Mass; only had offers from UMass and Ivy Leagues; Painter liked what he saw in AAU games

For what it is worth....

The NBA has 2 former Purdue players right now: Zach Edey and Jaden Ivey.  Painter does not recruit many of the 1-and-done types.  It could be (1) he's not that interested and (2) they're not that interested in his style.  Purdue's worst years under Painter followed a local maximum of success - and a significant number of players graduating.  This year has been an exception to prior years, but he's done a much better job at building deeper teams in the past few years. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

Having coaching continuity helps, too.  Since 1980, Purdue has had 2 basketball coaches - Gene Keady and Matt Painter.  And only 4 since 1950.

Right now, there are 7 roster folks with over 400 mins played this year.

  • Braden Smith: Westfield, IN (Indy suburb); mom and dad are basketball coaches
  • Fletcher Loyer: Fort Wayne, IN; Dad is a scout for the clippers; mother played volleyball in Lafayette and was an assistant coach at Purdue; Grandfather went to Purdue
  • Trey Kaufman-Renn: Sellersburg, IN (Louisville suburb); offers from IU, UNC, Louisville
  • Camden Heide: Minn; Utah private school.  Dad went to HS in Lafayette and graduated from Purdue. 
  • Myles Colvin: Indy; Dad is Roosevelt Colvin, who played football for 4 years at Purdue and 10 years in NFL.  Sister plays volleyball at Purdue
  • Caleb Furst: Fort Wayne, IN; 
  • CJ Cox: Lexington, Mass; only had offers from UMass and Ivy Leagues; Painter liked what he saw in AAU games

For what it is worth....

The NBA has 2 former Purdue players right now: Zach Edey and Jaden Ivey.  Painter does not recruit many of the 1-and-done types.  It could be (1) he's not that interested and (2) they're not that interested in his style.  Purdue's worst years under Painter followed a local maximum of success - and a significant number of players graduating.  This year has been an exception to prior years, but he's done a much better job at building deeper teams in the past few years. 

Oh, for sure. Painter, his staff, and program consistency certainly plays an outsized role in Purdue's success. However, much like any causal relationship/system, there tend to many variables of material influence. 

My original rebuttal only meant to challenge the incorrect notion that Indiana doesn’t serve as a sufficient college basketball recruiting base. That state churns out plenty of quality DI basketball players. In any event, a weaponized IU Basketball program can tap into that pool, as well as recruit nationally. If someone like Beard gets hired there, they’ll be very good very quickly. 

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted
2 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

Oh, for sure. Painter, his staff, and program consistency certainly plays an outsized role in Purdue's success. However, much like any causal relationship/system, there tend to many variables of material influence. 

My original rebuttal only meant to challenge the incorrect notion that Indiana doesn’t serve as a sufficient college basketball recruiting base. That state churns out plenty of quality DI basketball players. In any event, a weaponized IU Basketball program can tap into that pool, as well as recruit nationally. If someone like Beard gets hired there, they’ll be very good very quickly. 

I was being a bit unfair but Texas has more talent as a state than Indiana. That's mainly what I was trying to get at.

Purdue has an elite eight in 2019 and the best player on that team was from... (guess). Their 3rd leading scorer was from the Netherlands. Last year they made the title game with their best player being a Canadian. 

So they have had to supplement nationally (or internationally) when they make a run. The 3rd or 4th guy off the bench being a white dude from Indiana isn't really the crux of what it takes to win at IU or Purdue. 

Granted - you have to recruit nationally regardless of where you are coaching in college ball. Especially in the portal era.

Indiana has great in-state talent but I think Texas is the better job right now and it's easier to assemble a roster. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I was being a bit unfair but Texas has more talent as a state than Indiana. That's mainly what I was trying to get at.

Purdue has an elite eight in 2019 and the best player on that team was from... (guess). Their 3rd leading scorer was from the Netherlands. Last year they made the title game with their best player being a Canadian. 

So they have had to supplement nationally (or internationally) when they make a run. The 3rd or 4th guy off the bench being a white dude from Indiana isn't really the crux of what it takes to win at IU or Purdue. 

Granted - you have to recruit nationally regardless of where you are coaching in college ball. Especially in the portal era.

Indiana has great in-state talent but I think Texas is the better job right now and it's easier to assemble a roster. 

I'm not trying to be a dick, but all of that is a much different argument than "If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing."

All great programs recruit nationally. Texas and Indiana both have great state and regional recruiting bases. Either one, with a great coach, is a top-tier job and has the NIL support to justify it.

I also agree that Texas has more collective high school talent than Indiana. That's certainly true.

 

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted
8 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

I'm not trying to be a dick, but all of that is a much different argument than "If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing."

All great programs recruit nationally. Texas and Indiana both have great state and regional recruiting bases. Either one, with a great coach, is a top-tier job and has the NIL support to justify it.

I also agree that Texas has more collective high school talent than Indiana. That's certainly true.

 

Yeah it was a dumb comment. 

I think they are similar jobs right now. Which is crazy considering where each program was 40 years ago.

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah it was a dumb comment. 

I think they are similar jobs right now. Which is crazy considering where each program was 40 years ago.

I agree. I'll also say that (I think) a fully weaponized Texas is a better program than the same at Indiana because of corporate NIL opportunities in Austin vs. small-town Indiana. Hopefully, we get to test that premise one of these days.

That being said, who knows what Cuban might throw at the program if they actually became consistently good. His first ultra successful business was built because he wanted to listen to IU games over the internet.

Edited by MuellerHorn
Posted

I don't think most people in Texas appreciate how much basketball talent there is in the basketball-loving parts of the country.  And India is right in the middle of that part of the country.  They love basketball around there.  

If we use the number of NBA players as a proxy for overall talent...

Within 250 miles of Bloomington, you have 59 NBA players:  

  • Chicago (21)
  • Indianapolis (8)
  • St. Louis (6)
  • Louisville (6)
  • Columbus (3)
  • Nashville (3)
  • Others within the radius (12)

Within 250 miles of Austin, you have 26 NBA players:

  • Dallas (10)
  • Houston (11)
  • Other (5)

It turns out WE are the ones who have to recruit nationally.  

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Posted
1 minute ago, HookEm said:

Or you can take the all-time NBA player list and you get:

  • Texas - 219

Vs.

  • Indiana - 175
  • Illinois - 308
  • Ohio - 210
  • Kentucky - 121
  • Missouri - 77

Damn, I knew Chicago produced a shit ton of talent, but not that much (this is me assuming that Illinois number is clustered in Chicago)

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Public Speaking World Map GIF by emilyreaganpr

Hello thank you for calling sir this is Dinesh - 41st ranked recruit in all of America - how is it that I may help you today sir?

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Posted
50 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

I also agree that Texas has more collective high school talent than Indiana. That's certainly true.

 

image.png.53ad5aa959efd23b5b139572c2199abb.png

Posted
19 hours ago, ztejas said:

If you go to Indiana you have to recruit nationally. If you come to Texas you can go get six guys from Dallas every year and win 25 games if you know what you're doing. 

When was the last time this happened?

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Posted
30 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

Damn, I knew Chicago produced a shit ton of talent, but not that much (this is me assuming that Illinois number is clustered in Chicago)

 

Correct. Milwaukee, WI is also very close (1hr) and has a lot of talent. Detroit is 4hrs. Indianapolis is 3hrs. St. Louis is 4 hrs.

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

image.png.53ad5aa959efd23b5b139572c2199abb.png

Well, yeah. Texas is much bigger. That was the point. Historically, however, most of that top-end talent comes from Dallas and Houston. So, the geographical size isn't so important. It's that Texas has two giant cities compared to one (Indianapolis) that really moves the needle. However, plenty of diverse DI talent comes from all over both states. If we're comparing regions, I'm right there with you. The recruiting base for IU overall is a goldmine.

Edited by MuellerHorn
Posted
Just now, MuellerHorn said:

Well, yeah. Texas is much bigger. That's was the point. Historically, however, most of that top-end talent comes from Dallas and Houston. So, the geographical size isn't so important. It's that Texas has two giant cities compared to one (Indianapolis) that really moves the needle. However, plenty of diverse DI talent comes from all over both states.

But your point is messed up. Within 4hrs. Bloomington has more talent than just about anywhere in the country. The problem however is Bloomington has a population of 80,000 and urban kids from St. Louis, Louisville, Chicago, Indianapolis and Milwaukee generally aren't into that.

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

But your point is messed up. Within 4hrs. Bloomington has more talent than just about anywhere in the country. The problem however is Bloomington has a population of 80,000 and urban kids from St. Louis, Louisville, Chicago, Indianapolis and Milwaukee generally aren't into that.

No, my original point was your current point. In ZTejas' original argument about Indiana versus Texas only, Texas produces more talent (clustered in Houston and Dallas).

But, none of this has to do with firing RT, which I am still for haha

Edited by MuellerHorn
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Posted
8 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

Meanwhile the ladies just beat the gamecocks in a sold out Moody center. 

Cross Dawn off then 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Cross Dawn off then 

If she was coaching our men's team, we would be over .500 in the league. /no cap

Edited by UTEE97
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Posted
1 hour ago, MuellerHorn said:

However, plenty of diverse DI talent comes from all over both states.

Don't forget about French Lick, the doofus capital of Indiana

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Posted
2 hours ago, UTEE97 said:

Meanwhile the ladies just beat the gamecocks in a sold out Moody center. 

Our best basketball coach is definitely on the women’s side. I enjoyed that game more than any of the men’s games this year. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, CTC2 said:

Our best basketball coach is definitely on the women’s side. I enjoyed that game more than any of the men’s games this year. 

It was insanely fun. 

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Posted
6 hours ago, MuellerHorn said:

Well, yeah. Texas is much bigger. That was the point. Historically, however, most of that top-end talent comes from Dallas and Houston. So, the geographical size isn't so important. It's that Texas has two giant cities compared to one (Indianapolis) that really moves the needle. However, plenty of diverse DI talent comes from all over both states. If we're comparing regions, I'm right there with you. The recruiting base for IU overall is a goldmine.

Geography doesn't matter for sure, and it's possible the number of kids doesn't matter.

In Texas, everyone plays football and that is the state focus. It is, and we all agree it is.

I have watched high school and  college basketball players play outside in the winter on snow shoveled courts in Indiana. Basketball matters in Indiana way more than football. It's a matter of focus. 

In Texas, we ball at everything, with football being first. In Indiana, football, baseball, track and soccer are afterthoughts.

So the gap isn't as wide as we'd expect. 

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Posted
5 hours ago, UTEE97 said:

Meanwhile the ladies just beat the gamecocks in a sold out Moody center. 

Let's carry that to the SEC and NCAA tournies

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