2024 Poker : GTO or GTFO

[blacklab 11957]

Don’t forget to go to the lodge today to get your $10 annual membership and hour match up to $500. 
Only one person ahead of me a few minutes ago, now line is 10 deep. 

[AUS-97HORN 11825]

has anyone read the Bloomberg Russian poker bot article?

 

its behind a paywall for me, but it does sound like the Russians volunteered to give Bloomberg this report

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

10 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

has anyone read the Bloomberg Russian poker bot article?

 

its behind a paywall for me, but it does sound like the Russians volunteered to give Bloomberg this report

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2024-poker-bots-artificial-intelligence-russia/

https://archive.ph/sfqrl

For me, this confirms my suspicions about online poker. Thanks God for live poker in Texas, as there is little reason to play online now.

[Bookman 4648]

$1/$2 NLH cash game, six-handed, all recreational players. 

Decent player opens UTG, fold, call, call, call, and you call in BB closing action with 5-6 suited. Five to the flop. 

Flop is 4-3-2 rainbow. Are you ever donking? 

[TXSooner518 2439]

No. I could see it more on like a 9-8-7 flop where we are much more vulnerable.

[Brian Fantana 6697]

7 hours ago, Bookman said:

$1/$2 NLH cash game, six-handed, all recreational players. 

Decent player opens UTG, fold, call, call, call, and you call in BB closing action with 5-6 suited. Five to the flop. 

Flop is 4-3-2 rainbow. Are you ever donking? 

 

7 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

No. I could see it more on like a 9-8-7 flop where we are much more vulnerable.

Agreed. 432rb smashes BB defend range, so any half decent player will usually see you donking as very strong. You might get lucky and get raised by sets and hands like A2/3/4/5/6s, or even low pocket pairs that didn't make a set, but you block a fair amount of those combos and overpairs that are out of drawing range are not going to like that flop a lot of the time against a BB defend.

I think I'd be checking here 100% of the time unless you have an extremely loose/splashy image and even then this board is probably +EV to just check and let the cbet happen.

[Bookman 4648]

Yeah I checked and it checked through. Turn was a 4, I bet, UTG calls. River was a 4, check check. He's a decent player and said "I can't believe you didn't bet the flop." He has 9-9. 

[Brian Fantana 6697]

I think I'm always betting that river, though. You're gonna get raised a very small percentage of the time and you can fold those.

Actually kind of shocked your opponent checked back.

Edited October 6 by Brian Fantana

[TXSooner518 2439]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

I think I'm always betting that river, though. You're gonna get raised a very small percentage of the time and you can fold those.

Actually kind of shocked your opponent checked back.

why bet river? what is calling that isn't a boat? or are we hoping to bluff out a small boat? I'm just check-pukefolding river or possibly check-calling if I think opp can have AK/AQ based on his tendencies, size of turn bet and may try to bluff me off a baby boat like maybe I had A3. 

Agree as UTG there I'm betting river with 99.  

Edited October 6 by TXSooner518

[Brian Fantana 6697]

9 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

why bet river? what is calling that isn't a boat? or are we hoping to bluff out a small boat? I'm just check-pukefolding river or possibly check-calling if I think opp can have AK/AQ based on his tendencies, size of turn bet and may try to bluff me off a baby boat like maybe I had A3. 

Agree as UTG there I'm betting river with 99.  

You'll called by all the worse straights and maybe A2/A3 or hero called by AK/AQ but maybe you're right that it's too thin to bet there now that I think about it more.

[Bookman 4648]

I guess he thought my range was exactly A-4 and was scared of betting the river and getting raised. I would have bet 9-9 in his shoes. I could have fives, sixes, or sevens there, and I'm not folding those to a reasonable bet. 

[Brian Fantana 6697]

Yeah villain not betting is kind of crazy.

[TXSooner518 2439]

You'll called by all the worse straights and maybe A2/A3 or hero called by AK/AQ but maybe you're right that it's too thin to bet there now that I think about it more.

We lose to A2 and A3. A5 is the only worse straight and we block it and surely if UTG opens A5, gets multi callers, and flops wheel, they are betting flop.

[Bookman 4648]

I guess the question is if I'm ever taking the lead there, betting into three people. I have all the sets and straights. 

[Brian Fantana 6697]

7 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

We lose to A2 and A3. A5 is the only worse straight and we block it and surely if UTG opens A5, gets multi callers, and flops wheel, they are betting flop.

Yeah I keep forgetting there are three 4s on the board.

[TXSooner518 2439]

12 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah I keep forgetting there are three 4s on the board.

Figured! Yeah, if the board is 2344K or something, absolutely must again lead river. On 23444, our hand got turned into napkins. 

Reminds me of a fun Big O cash pot I played at WSOP several years ago now, I have A235Q with nut clubs. Get stacks in on 557 with two clubs. Huge flop for me of course, trips top kicker, uncounterfeitable low draw, nut flush draw. Runs out 7-7. So my low misses, flush misses, and now my trips top kicker doesn't even play, I am playing my AQ with the 777 on board. Napkins. I vomit in my lap but scoop the pot over my opponents AJ245 with non-nut clubs hahaha, so he has AJ with the 777 on board. 

Edited October 7 by TXSooner518

[Brian Fantana 6697]

Low-ish stakes NLO8 tourney on ACR, close to the bubble

UTG opens to 2.5, incredibly splashy villain that barely covers me (both about 50BB deep) raises to 7 in cutoff, I call on the button with [Ad Kc Qc Td]. UTG calls.

Flop is [8s Jc 9c]. Flop the nuts with the redraw to most of the world.

UTG check, villain bets 15bb, I jam. UTG folds, villain calls.

Villain shows [Ac Tc 5s As].

Turn 2h, river 5c.

Pretty standard call from villain but I fucking hate poker sometimes. Dude has been shoving chips in with absolute trash O8 hands for like 2 hours and this one time he shows up with an actual hand. I try not to be results oriented but I got drawn out on so many times today (getting it in good almost every time), it's just one of those days that gives you a thousand yard stare and makes you wonder why the fuck this is your hobby.

Edited October 9 by Brian Fantana

[AUS-97HORN 11825]

was off work today, played a goofy session that I had so many large hands, yet didnt really get anything close to max value because either the board was too wet, or the folks that literally call me with anything, couldnt fucking find a hand to call with.

 

I managed to get felted on the very first hand where I had an open end straight flush draw against AA that I missed twice on.  got felted again  when i 4 bet with AhTs against a very aggressive 3 better.  flop was QhJh9s. I jam and he turns over KThh.... fuck. 

3rd rebuy in for $900.   things go much better as i get a bit of a sun run. 

i 5 bet shove all in with TT, get called  by 88 and flop a set and win.

I then get 88 myself,  raise to $20 with it,  get 5 callers.  flop is 9c8c7d.    it checks to me thats way too wet. bet $50. everyone folds.

i then get AA, win a nice pot of roughly 200/  get KK, flop trips against the case K and felt him.   

get dealt 77 all in pre vs 2 overs on a day where if you use both cards and hit the quads of the day, you get $200... and 7s were the quads. flop set turn quads. 

get dealt QQ, make it  $25 get 4 callers  flop is Qd 4d 3s.  again I know I smashed this but theres more than enough dd or 56 calling $25 pre in this game that I cant just let them get a free card.  so I bet 50 and everyone folds. 

then start with 44  $20  to go. 4 of us. and theres an Ac Qc 4c flop. theres a bet, and raise before I act.  I make it $130 to see where the fuck I am... they both fold. 

last hand of note, I get AA, two hyper aggressive guys behind me, and 1 in front.  The one in front  makes it $15.... and I decide to just call, as hoped, the first aggressive one make its 70, folds back to the first raiser... he makes it 150.

now I know no matter what I fucking do here, it screams monster hand.  i am playing with $1400 behind,  up against $2000 for the guy who made it 150 and $1100 for the one who made it $70.

Both of these guys will make the classic "i felt it" call for all their chips.   I say 500.   first folds immediately. 2nd hems and haws and finally folds.

in for 900 out for 1850 (incl bonus)

every major pair held, plus most hit a set or better.     5 flopped sets, 1 quads,  AA x2, KK, QQ.  and either all the money was already in or the boards were so fucking coordianted, I couldnt give a free card.

happy I finally had a great session, but only being up 700 in actual play just seems so wasted. 

 

 

 

 

[TXSooner518 2439]

17 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Low-ish stakes NLO8 tourney on ACR, close to the bubble

UTG opens to 2.5, incredibly splashy villain that barely covers me (both about 50BB deep) raises to 7 in cutoff, I call on the button with [Ad Kc Qc Td]. UTG calls.

Flop is [8s Jc 9c]. Flop the nuts with the redraw to most of the world.

UTG check, villain bets 15bb, I jam. UTG folds, villain calls.

Villain shows [Ac Tc 5s As].

Turn 2h, river 5c.

Pretty standard call from villain but I fucking hate poker sometimes. Dude has been shoving chips in with absolute trash O8 hands for like 2 hours and this one time he shows up with an actual hand. I try not to be results oriented but I got drawn out on so many times today (getting it in good almost every time), it's just one of those days that gives you a thousand yard stare and makes you wonder why the fuck this is your hobby.

I know those days! I think this is a fold pre in O8 for 1/7 of your stack though, esp if UTG is good, since they should be tight, and also know that villain is a dullard and may decide to re-bomb it pre if they have AA2 or whatever. One way hands are brutal in split pot games. Obv once the flop comes, GG. 

[Brian Fantana 6697]

3 hours ago, TXSooner518 said:

I know those days! I think this is a fold pre in O8 for 1/7 of your stack though, esp if UTG is good, since they should be tight, and also know that villain is a dullard and may decide to re-bomb it pre if they have AA2 or whatever. One way hands are brutal in split pot games. Obv once the flop comes, GG. 

Yeah I'm pretty new to O8 but I've been having fun with it and cashing a lot. Really have to pick your spots well.

[Lurch 5932]

If you’re bored, I’m in seat 3 on bestbet live

[TonyTexas 10537]

Ouch on the AK hand. You were 83% when the money went in after the flop. 

Edited October 11 by TonyTexas

[Lurch 5932]

Yeah I went right to the calculator. Oh well, I want that play all day

[Lurch 5932]

What really sucks is I made a beautiful call against him w 3rd pair a few days ago off stream and he (wrongly) bitched about my poor play, and now he thinks he got rightful vengeance

[Brian Fantana 6697]

4 hours ago, Lurch said:

If you’re bored, I’m in seat 3 on bestbet live

Still there? Just tuned in.

[Brian Fantana 6697]

Nice pot with the aces, if that was you. Seat 1 kinda did you a favor by raising you there.

[Lurch 5932]

11 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Nice pot with the aces, if that was you. Seat 1 kinda did you a favor by raising you there.

Yeah, he did.  I bluffed him pretty damn good early in the game and his buddy's were harassing him on his phone about it.  He got me later with 72 but I didnt have shit so it wasnt for much.  This one he just overplayed.  Helped get me out of a DEEP hole

[Lurch 5932]

Want to see a grown man cry?

 

This one hurt

[Lurch 5932]

29 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Yeah, he did.  I bluffed him pretty damn good early in the game and his buddy's were harassing him on his phone about it.  He got me later with 72 but I didnt have shit so it wasnt for much.  This one he just overplayed.  Helped get me out of a DEEP hole

The bluff

 

Edited October 11 by Lurch

[TXSooner518 2439]

Want to see a grown man cry?
 
This one hurt

FFS

[blacklab 11957]

Had a weird situation come up today in the plo tournament at the lodge

J954 rainbow board, I'm all in with 3 others.

I have AJ99, other hands are QJT8, 9765, A432

So AKQT8763 I lose, J954 I win. Never have I seen anything but a board pair I lose.  Of course it was a ten.

On the drive home I was thinking is this the lowest possible win rate while being in the lead after the turn.

It's not, if others had 55 and 44 would have been drawing to a J or 9 only.

 

[Bookman 4648]

Okay time to ask a stupid question for you hi-lo players. 

I don't play PLO-8 or Big-O, but on this Big-O hand the PLO Professor has A-Q-J-4-7 on a 4-6-A-3 board. He says the turn was good because it gives him a "live 7." 

I don't understand what his low-hand is on the turn. Does he play A-7 and 4-6-3 (or the functional equivalent) for a 7-6-4-3-A made low? What does he mean by "live 7"? That makes it sound like he's drawing. 

The river is an 8, and he ends up chopping the low hand. Was the 8 relevant? 

The hand is at 4:12 or so. 

 

 

 

 

[TXSooner518 2439]

The phrasing is weird but is used when you have a non-paired low card you’re playing with one that is also matched on the board bc four lows are now there.

Correct he is playing 7-6-4-3-A. The 8 river doesn’t change that.

[Brian Fantana 6697]

Haven't been running well in ACR tourneys the past couple weeks but just took first in a NLO8 tourney (low-ish stakes just over 200 entries).

Final hand, stack sizes are roughly even, 5% or so in my favor:

Holding Ad Ks 9c 4s on the button

I have been raising a lot on the button but this time I decide to limp expecting villain to raise small, surprisingly just checks

Flop is Qd 7d 3s, action goes check check

Turn makes it Qd 7d 3s Ts, villain checks, I bet about 2/3 pot, villain calls

River makes it Qd 7d 3s Ts 8s, villain checks, I tank and decide to shove for value with a serviceable low and the 2nd nuts and pray for a call

Villain tanks and calls, tables Qs 7s 6h 4h, I scoop

What do you guys think of my shove there on the river? As played, I think my opponent would probably have check raised the turn if they were holding Ax of spades, so that was my internal logic for going for the value shove. I was not expecting a call as there are not many hands worse than mine there that should consider calling besides exactly what villain has especially considering my shove was over 10x pot.

[blacklab 11957]

It's good. You're probably getting called by Qs/Js/Ts and he'd be raising with A2 or As. My thinking on that bet is one of my hands is winning and there's a good chance they both do jam is fine but I'd probably lean more towards a value bet. You do want to bet enough so if he calls and you get 3/4 you make more money. 

 

[Bookman 4648]

On 10/19/2024 at 5:05 PM, TXSooner518 said:

The phrasing is weird but is used when you have a non-paired low card you’re playing with one that is also matched on the board bc four lows are now there.

Correct he is playing 7-6-4-3-A. The 8 river doesn’t change that.

In case anyone is interested, I found this article:

https://crushlivepoker.com/articles/reading-complex-low-boards-in-omaha-8-revealed

[Bookman 4648]

I played a PLO hand last night. I had AK of diamonds and QJ of hearts, on the button. On the turn, the board was A of hearts, 6 of diamonds, 4 of diamonds, and K of hearts. 

I called an early raise pre flop, four handed. Flop was pot, fold, fold, and I called. 

Turn was pot, call. 

I had top two pair, which I did not think was good, but 15 cards give me the nuts, and 7 others give me the effective nuts. That's literally half the deck. 

I've never had a draw like that. Is it possible to have a better one?

River was the 10 of spades, check, I bet half pot, and he folded.

 

[TXSooner518 2439]

You have way more. All 9 hearts, except the king, all 7 non board pair diamonds, the other ace and the other tens. So 18 nut outs and the Kh is only losing to a single combo.

[dirtonia 269]

RIP Big E, owner of Red Star and Austin poker staple. Not sure what is going to happen with Red Star, but assume it won’t be around much longer.

Action at TCH has been great. Changing the 1/2 to a $500 max has led to some great deep stack action.

[AUS-97HORN 11825]

fcuk I knew he was in bad shape, hadnt seen him for at least 2 months and I knew he was in the hosptial. 

RIP E

 

you will be missed. 

[blacklab 11957]

Such a great guy. Played at his underground game for years. Never saw him make a ruling I didn't agree with.

One time a guy came in and E asked him how much. The guy handed E $300. E tells him "Ok, now that your book is settled up how many chips would you like to buy?"

[blacklab 11957]

Went to bullets Tuesday to play big o, game ends up breaking at 11 so I head over to hold em. They had 2 bomb pot buttons going around so I figured correctly that I could make some money on them at least and try to limit my losses at hold em. 
 

I get 5s43s3 on a bomb pot. Top board Q98, bottom A7s4s. Checks around, 3 comes on top board and K on bottom. Someone bets pot, second guy goes all in for $100 and change, I announce fuckit and call, original bettor calls and is all in as well. River blank on top, 2s giving me a flush on bottom. I announce set 3s and flush, first guy mucks, second guy says “set, I get half”. Fortunately for me it was a set of sevens on the board I have the flush, scoopidy doop for me. 

Few hands later in Holdem get QcJc, uber aggressive guy raises to $25 pre flop and me and 4 others come along. Flop AhTd8d giving me a belly buster. Pre flop raiser goes $50 and 4 of us call. Turn is the Kh, cha Ching. Guy bets $100. I’m torn on what to do and would love to hear opinions on what you would do. 2 Flush draws, potential boat draws in his range, he will probably bet on the river. I take a chance and just call hoping others will too. Everyone else folds. River 8c. Fuck. He starts playing with chips and puts out $200. He looked a little uncomfortable making the bet so I throw in a $5 chip and he says the words I’m looking for “you’re good” and meekly shows KcJs and I take a huge pot. 
 

Win and lose a few more pots

cash out $1337, up almost $900 at the Holdem table

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

11 hours ago, dirtonia said:

RIP Big E, owner of Red Star and Austin poker staple. Not sure what is going to happen with Red Star, but assume it won’t be around much longer.

Action at TCH has been great. Changing the 1/2 to a $500 max has led to some great deep stack action.

I had heard he had passed Monday night from one of the dealers at TCH. RIP Big E.

Action has definitely changed since they upped the stakes. I know and see Bob quite a bit playing PLO, but I wonder how many times you and I may have sat at the same table. 🤷‍♂️

2 hours ago, blacklab said:

Such a great guy. Played at his underground game for years. Never saw him make a ruling I didn't agree with.

One time a guy came in and E asked him how much. The guy handed E $300. E tells him "Ok, now that your book is settled up how many chips would you like to buy?"

Great story. Didn't know him well but he seemed like a good guy and straight shooter. Liked that room but just never enough tables going for me since it became Red Star.

Edited November 17 by BillyGoatHill

[Lurch 5932]

I’ve thought a number of times about trying to get to one of Brad's’ meetup games but never pulled the trigger.

he just randomly sat at my $2/5 game, which had sucked but now he’s making it an action game

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

On 11/16/2024 at 10:31 AM, dirtonia said:

Action at TCH has been great. Changing the 1/2 to a $500 max has led to some great deep stack action.

 

Except it killed 1/3 and juiced the 1/2 so much it's intimidating for beginners and strangers. Imagine you're college student who has been playing online and you sit down at a 1/2 with a bunch of maniacs playing what is essentially 1/2-25 with a bomb pot every rotation. I'm not convinced juicing the cheapest tables is a good thing for the ecosystem in the long run.

Edited November 18 by MagicSoccerSpray

[blacklab 11957]

Yeah, they should have a 1-2 $200 max. Of course a bunch of guys will sit down and go all in and rebuy till everyone at the table has over $1000 then push any newcomers around, which is what happens at the 1-2 plo at the lodge

[AUS-97HORN 11825]

10 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 it's intimidating for beginners and strangers. Imagine you're college student who has been playing online and you sit down at a 1/2 with a bunch of maniacs

That is one of the few spots where Red Star is trying to help, being the closest to UT there are multiple students who play there, it has student rates on Sun & Tues, and it allows most of them to at least play a normal game until all hell breaks loose and they leave.

 

But to your point this story actually happened 2+ week ago at Red Star,  I heard the story from 4 diff regulars and they all confimed the story as told below.

one UT kid- a bi-weekly player on those 2 days.. who had run up his $100 buyin to $1100+ was at the table when 2 of the maniacs showed up, and juiced the shit out of the table. quickly blind shoving all in, getting money all over the table, them doubling/ trippling each other up and suddenly everyone had at least $800 in front when one of the maniacs blind shoves UTG for more than $1200.

folds around to the BB, who is the kid with the $1100 in front of him.  kid has AKo....  takes forever to decide and finally open mucks it.

 

Almost the whole table loses their mind, going "WTF man, who fucking folds AK there to a blind shove, HOLY SHIT MAN! , WTF..... and then... WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU HERE PLAYING IF YOU WONT PLAY THAT?"

kid sits there meekly for 1 or 2 more hands and leaves.   He hasnt been back. and I wonder if he ever will be back.

 

and yes to us playing this game for years, $1100 while a nice amount of money, losing it in agonizing fashion with AK is aggravating as fuck.... but we also arent a college student with limited funds.

I heard the story the next day when I came to play and everyone was still telling the story berating the player in absentia  asking everyone.. "would you have folded AK off to an open jam by Known Maniac????" and of course everyone is laughing saying no way.

I was the first to point out to everyone that as a college student without a fuckload of money there is a damn good possibility that the kid was playing well above his dollar comfort level, hell he might have honestly been at his playing bankroll number for the entire month.  

 

I mean yeah, if the game gets that big and you arent comfortable anymore you should leave... but I also understand the feeling of... "Ive turned $100 into $1100 and against a random hand AK is winning only 60% of the time... losing it all now would suck"

 

and reminding everyone of this crazy shit below where the guy was so in the stratosphere of money level that he couldnt afford to lose but he was obligated to sit there and keep playing until the show runtime was over, so he kept folding all his hands... even when he got AA he folded

and if he hadnt folded AA...

 

 

Edited November 18 by AUS-97HORN

[AUS-97HORN 11825]

forgot to link the vid to the hand start time. which is 5:48

[TXSooner518 2439]

65%, not 60%, but yeah point stands. Everyone loves the giant action until all the fun players either go broke or don't want to play that big anymore or get runnoft, and then you just push chips around and pay rake. 

[dirtonia 269]

Red star just changed their 1/2 to $500 max. It ch aged while I was there today during free play from noon - 2. Game keeps making earlier, I was there right at noon and they already had one full table and we made the second table around 12:30ish.

Seems like the plan is to keep it going for now, so I’ll try to be there a few times a week at least during the day, until I finally get one of those job things. Gross.