Ethical Non Monogamy "ENM"/Throupling/Fucking around/whatever.....

[F250 28,826]

7 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

 

 

I think I just realized I'm bi-sexual and in an ENM relationship with some guys I watch games with. 

A group Dutch Rudder chain is just part of the game experience.

[Helobious 9,467]

36 minutes ago, F250 said:

A group Dutch Rudder chain is just part of the game experience.

I just googled “Dutch rudder”, should’ve paid closer attention to who the poster was. Jesus man. 

[F250 28,826]

1 minute ago, Helobious said:

I just googled “Dutch rudder”, should’ve paid closer attention to who the poster was. Jesus man. 

 

[troph 24,914]

15 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I just googled “Dutch rudder”, should’ve paid closer attention to who the poster was. Jesus man. 

not gay if you don't actually touch one, not sure if you stare at one though, I guess that depends on if your mouth waters.

[royiv 9,382]

25 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I just googled “Dutch rudder”, should’ve paid closer attention to who the poster was. Jesus man. 

Uh, same here. I will never be able to read that poster's content in the same context again.

[Helobious 9,467]

2 minutes ago, royiv said:

Uh, same here. I will never be able to read that poster's content in the same context again.

He ruined eggs benedict for me permanently due to another story he had. Dutch rudder is wildly tame by comparison. 

[F250 28,826]

I didn't realize there were so many innocents on Surly.

[Covri 6,253]

Oh that’s pretty tame, when F250 said chain I thought we were teetering towards some human centipede type sex play shit lol

[CleverNickname 1,321]

Thought maybe this was on page 1, but maybe it wasnt:

https://www.thecut.com/article/how-polyamorous-relationships-work-ethical-non-monogamous-rules.html

[Samson's Wig 3,194]

What I'm gathering from this discussion is that polyamory is the new CrossFit.

 

"Polyamory: for when being vegan just isn't enough anymore." 

 

[Brisketexan 105,451]

5 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

What I'm gathering from this discussion is that polyamory is the new CrossFit.

 

"Polyamory: for when being vegan just isn't enough anymore." 

 

And.....now I know that I am doomed: at some upcoming dinner/banquet/somesuch, I will be seated next to a vegan polyamorous crossfitter.  Who has lots of cats.

FML.

[royiv 9,382]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And.....now I know that I am doomed: at some upcoming dinner/banquet/somesuch, I will be seated next to a vegan polyamorous crossfitter.  Who has lots of cats.

FML.

May God have mercy on your soul. 

[Bateshorn 9,942]

9 hours ago, safe sex said:

This is longer than any post I've written in this thread

Also, there’s some pretty strong thought that modern cuckoldry is form of male domination depending on how it’s practiced and consent/lack there of.

[immamac 43,211]

1 hour ago, CleverNickname said:

Thought maybe this was on page 1, but maybe it wasnt:

https://www.thecut.com/article/how-polyamorous-relationships-work-ethical-non-monogamous-rules.html

This read is exactly why it’s stupid. Perfect summary. 

[troph 24,914]

1 hour ago, CleverNickname said:

Thought maybe this was on page 1, but maybe it wasnt:

https://www.thecut.com/article/how-polyamorous-relationships-work-ethical-non-monogamous-rules.html

Summary:

 

[CleverNickname 1,321]

There is also this:

https://www.thecut.com/article/polycule-polyamourous-relationship-meaning.html#_ga=2.36642336.1056953019.1706225701-1114508378.1705579535

 

Quote

She had known him for years, since a game night at his apartment when he taught her how to play Settlers of Catan. (“He was so excited to teach me,” Anna recalls.)

 

[956 Worldwide 34,799]

28 minutes ago, immamac said:

This read is exactly why it’s stupid. Perfect summary. 

I did LMAO at this, after reading and hearing all about how all the different types of boundaries and forms of loving are valid, etc:

Quote

One-penis policy (OPP): Probably the most-hated concept in the world of ethical non-monogamy; this is often when a cis straight man only allows his female partner to sleep with another person who doesn’t have a penis.

 

“Not that one that a vanilla straight dude might go for.” 

[safe sex 11,796]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I did LMAO at this, after reading and hearing all about how all the different types of boundaries and forms of loving are valid, etc:

“Not that one that a vanilla straight dude might go for.” 

Listen, if a couple wants to put that boundary into place, that's their business, but it's almost guaranteed to backfire and cause problems. That's why it's a hated concept and any poly person with successful poly relationships will tell you to stay away from that kind of shit.

Gee a rule that eliminates half of the potential partners for a woman and forces her to only pick same sex partners if she wants to experience other partners? I wonder why that might be a problem? 

The straights are not okay and y'all never have been. 

[chainsaw 9,878]

13 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Listen, if a couple wants to put that boundary into place, that's their business, but it's almost guaranteed to backfire and cause problems. That's why it's a hated concept and any poly person with successful poly relationships will tell you to stay away from that kind of shit.

Gee a rule that eliminates half of the potential partners for a woman and forces her to only pick same sex partners if she wants to experience other partners? I wonder why that might be a problem? 

The straights are not okay and y'all never have been. 

What's fair's fair, and some people can't stand that.

[CfRhTxStBobcats 602]

On 1/24/2024 at 1:58 PM, C-Man said:

They were getting divorced whether they "opened" up their marriage or not.

 

Amen.

A second cousin of mine is involved in a throuple. I'd never heard of this before it was brought up around the dining room island when I was deep into the wine one year at the family Xmas get-together. He was in a relationship with two girls at that time. I nearly spit my wine out in surprise. So you have to dote on two different women and all that AND there weren't threesomes?!?! I feel like you're maybe missing the best part. However, he has now since gotten involved with a throuple with another man as the third. They live in separate houses on the same property and there is a child involved. I have no fucking clue which of them is the biological father.

Hey, I'm no kink-shamer. If that works for you, by all means go and have a good time. I just know personally I could never make it work on my end -- unless there were threesomes (not the Devil's variety either /wink).

You have an island in your dining room? Time to upgrade mi casa.

[Brisketexan 105,451]

14 minutes ago, safe sex said:

The straights are not okay and y'all never have been. 

People are entitled to have their relationship expectations.  Including fidelity.  Freedom of choice means freedom to limit choices, too.  I don't begrudge anyone that sort of limitation.  And you shouldn't either.  Seriously, not cool.  People should be free to engage in relationship the way they want, including with the limitations that make them feel comfortable.

[DDD Dad 14,356]

On 1/23/2024 at 1:38 PM, Brisketexan said:

In all honestly, I hardly have the time to disappoint one woman, much less two of them.

Oh, I'm quite good at disappointing one woman, but that's enough work for me.

[chainsaw 9,878]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

People are entitled to have their relationship expectations.  Including fidelity.  Freedom of choice means freedom to limit choices, too.  I don't begrudge anyone that sort of limitation.  And you shouldn't either.  Seriously, not cool.  People should be free to engage in relationship the way they want, including with the limitations that make them feel comfortable.

I think their objection was focused on the OPP as an unfair rule and the fact that it's popular with straight people trying ENM. The OPP (you can see other people but only if it's a same-sex partner, but I can see people of the opposite sex) seem pretty arbitrary and control-based to me so I get why it's seen as unfair and casting ENM in a bad light. I didn't take their post as begrudging individuals' choices, though.

[Jkwellborn 6,749]

The straights are not okay and y'all never have been. 

Sounds like the gays might be ok either.

[safe sex 11,796]

We don't claim to be

[Brisketexan 105,451]

Just now, chainsaw said:

I think their objection was focused on the OPP as an unfair rule and the fact that it's popular with straight people trying ENM. The OPP (you can see other people but only if it's a same-sex partner, but I can see people of the opposite sex) seem pretty arbitrary and control-based to me so I get why it's seen as unfair and casting ENM in a bad light. I didn't take their post as begrudging individuals' choices, though.

I can see how it would be/seem unfair.  But the point remains, if that's what one partner is comfortable with, then that's what they're comfortable with.  If my wife told me "Brisket, I guess I'm okay if you have sex with other people, but only if those other people are dudes," I'd say "okay....I won't be having sex with other people then."  Because I am not attracted to men.  For men who are, cool, maybe that would work for them.  Wouldn't work for me.  One party has told you the boundaries of what they would find emotionally acceptable.  If that's not something you're interested in, then don't do it.  If we had a relationship where the understanding had been that neither one of us eats in a restaurant without the other, and my wife says "but you know, I'd be okay with it if you went without me, but only if you order boiled tofu," I'm not gonna be hitting a restaurant without her anytime soon.  I'll stick to our prior arrangement, go to dinner WITH her, and order the cheese enchiladas that I like.

[safe sex 11,796]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I can see how it would be/seem unfair.  But the point remains, if that's what one partner is comfortable with, then that's what they're comfortable with.  If my wife told me "Brisket, I guess I'm okay if you have sex with other people, but only if those other people are dudes," I'd say "okay....I won't be having sex with other people then."  Because I am not attracted to men.  For men who are, cool, maybe that would work for them.  Wouldn't work for me.  One party has told you the boundaries of what they would find emotionally acceptable.  If that's not something you're interested in, then don't do it.  If we had a relationship where the understanding had been that neither one of us eats in a restaurant without the other, and my wife says "but you know, I'd be okay with it if you went without me, but only if you order boiled tofu," I'm not gonna be hitting a restaurant without her anytime soon.  I'll stick to our prior arrangement, go to dinner WITH her, and order the cheese enchiladas that I like.

Then those two people should not be in a poly relationship. That's all it comes down to. You can insist on that OPP rule if ya want, but good luck finding a partner who is going to agree with it.

[immamac 43,211]

1 minute ago, safe sex said:

Then those two people should not be in a poly relationship. That's all it comes down to. You can insist on that OPP rule if ya want, but good luck finding a partner who is going to agree with it.

Lmao. 

[Brisketexan 105,451]

Just now, safe sex said:

Then those two people should not be in a poly relationship. That's all it comes down to. You can insist on that OPP rule if ya want, but good luck finding a partner who is going to agree with it.

Correct.  That's the point.  Poly relationships may work for some.  Good for them.  They may not work for others.  Good for them.  Maybe some halfway variation works for some other people.  Good for them.

I gotta tell ya, I'm a charter member of the "let your freak flag fly" club, but I also get pretty fucking annoyed at the disdain some folks seem to have for folks who DON'T have a freak flag to fly.  Live-and-let-live, without judgment, goes both directions.  I respect people's choice to stick with vanilla sex.  I respect people's choice to engage in bisexual oral while hang gliding.  Kind of like how I respect a woman who chooses to bust her ass and become a CEO the same as I respect a woman who chooses to be a stay-at-home mom.  If having choices is important, then respecting those choices is equally important.  The "yeah, you're just vanilla trad cis losers" bit is as fucking offensive to me as the "y'all are dirty queers" is to you.

[safe sex 11,796]

I'm out.  It's not worth it 

[immamac 43,211]

2 minutes ago, safe sex said:

I'm out.  It's not worth it 

Stupidity wins again! 

[safe sex 11,796]

It always does

[Brisketexan 105,451]

Just now, safe sex said:

I'm out.  It's not worth it 

I'm disappointed.  I like you and respect you.  But I think you've gotten a bit over your skis on this one.  It might do you some good to do what you would like done with respect to you: step outside yourself, and grant people the dignity and respect of their own chosen path.  Respect and freedom that isn't mutual isn't respect or freedom at all.  Society has no right to demand that you conform to the expectations of others, which also means that you don't have a right to demand similar conformity to your expectations (or to have open disdain for people who don't).

Again, I'm an open-minded guy.  My sex life is quite good (and no, I won't share details - it's not just boring vanilla, but that's my business).  WHATEVER it is, it's mine.  It's mine to choose and live, with my partner.  I think it's fair to expect you to respect that.  I respect your path.  Mutuality is important.

[chainsaw 9,878]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I can see how it would be/seem unfair.  But the point remains, if that's what one partner is comfortable with, then that's what they're comfortable with.  If my wife told me "Brisket, I guess I'm okay if you have sex with other people, but only if those other people are dudes," I'd say "okay....I won't be having sex with other people then."  Because I am not attracted to men.  For men who are, cool, maybe that would work for them.  Wouldn't work for me.  One party has told you the boundaries of what they would find emotionally acceptable.  If that's not something you're interested in, then don't do it.  If we had a relationship where the understanding had been that neither one of us eats in a restaurant without the other, and my wife says "but you know, I'd be okay with it if you went without me, but only if you order boiled tofu," I'm not gonna be hitting a restaurant without her anytime soon.  I'll stick to our prior arrangement, go to dinner WITH her, and order the cheese enchiladas that I like.

I totally understand. The people who are way too online that deeply analyze ENM and their arrangements, though, they have strong and perhaps valid things to say about OPP. I wouldn't expect to change any minds, but I would hope at the very least anyone practicing an OPP ENM arrangement would take a moment and reflect upon why their boundary happens to be inherently asymmetrical and conveniently aligned with patriarchal preferences. I can't really argue with anyone who says that OPP is rooted in insecurity and tied to the problematic idea that having had male sexual partners (other than you, of course) reduces a woman's worthiness or "value" as a woman.

After a certain age I think most people's romantic and sexual preferences are pretty settled, but at the very least that kind of reflection would lead to an awareness of how one-sided many of these institutions and the attitudes they foster are. Even better, I'd hope it would lead to them treating the women in their lives better. I wouldn't go so far as to say that OPP and ethics are fundamentally incompatible though. I think it's enough just to understand why it's frowned upon.

[Guest]

I'm still hung up on the gay Huxtables.

Who gets roofied?

[chainsaw 9,878]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

I'm still hung up on the gay Huxtables.

Who gets roofied?

[Js1 85,612]

25 minutes ago, immamac said:

Stupidity wins again! 

What in god’s fucking name is your problem? Also aren’t you supposed to be on vacation? 

[Jkwellborn 6,749]

This was the perfect gif.

[Hate 20,148]

I'm still trying to figure out what Imma thinks is stupid.  Is it that some people get married but choose to have a boyfriend/girlfriend as well?  Is it the relationship with the 3rd party that is stupid or the sex outside of the marriage that is stupid?  Who gives a fuck either way as long as it isn't your wife/husband?

[troph 24,914]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

I'm still hung up on the gay Huxtables.

Who gets roofied?

yeah well it was years ago, I knew a male gay couple, he was a lawyer, he was a doctor. they lived quite the idyllic life with the swanky house in town and at a pool party I asked what the wifi password was... "gayhuxtables"

I fucking laughed inside so hard, it all made sense, they were the perfect straight gay couple. They both had a OPP, well TPP to be precise. They were NOT open.

Edited January 26 by troph

[immamac 43,211]

33 minutes ago, Hate said:

I'm still trying to figure out what Imma thinks is stupid.  Is it that some people get married but choose to have a boyfriend/girlfriend as well?  Is it the relationship with the 3rd party that is stupid or the sex outside of the marriage that is stupid?  Who gives a fuck either way as long as it isn't your wife/husband?

None of that is stupid. It’s stupid to make up some fad counter culture name and label for it. Just let people do what they’ve always done and fuck the way they want. 

[troph 24,914]

if the woman in a straight and open relationship only wants to fuck women outside the primary relationship then OPP is fine. If a man wants to fuck other women but won’t let his wife fuck other men, that’s kind of a dickless move. And if you take a moment to think about OPP it’s pretty clearly a straight man’s view, and in an open relationship context if it’s by fiat then it is patriarchal. Of course equal power, and mutually agreeable boundaries landing on OPP can be fine. 
 

 

Edited January 26 by troph

[956 Worldwide 34,799]

The fact that the most controversial aspect of all this is “OPP” (Yeah, you know me!) is just……chefs kiss and hilarious as hell. 
 

I have it on good authority that every last lady is, in fact, down with OPP.
 

Exciting, isn't it? A special kinda business
Many of you will catch the same sorta O.P.P. messing with
Him or her, for sure, I'm going to admit it
When O.P.P. comes, damn skippy, I'm with it

 

 

Edited January 26 by 956 Worldwide

[Hate 20,148]

38 minutes ago, immamac said:

None of that is stupid. It’s stupid to make up some fad counter culture name and label for it. Just let people do what they’ve always done and fuck the way they want. 

I couldn't agree more.  There are way too many labels I can't keep them all straight...no offense to the non straights.

[956 Worldwide 34,799]

1 hour ago, troph said:

yeah well it was years ago, I knew a male gay couple, he was a lawyer, he was a doctor. they lived quite the idyllic life with the swanky house in town and at a pool party I asked what the wifi password was... "gayhuxtables"

I fucking laughed inside so hard, it all made sense, they were the perfect straight gay couple. They both had a OPP, well TPP to be precise. They were NOT open.

This tracks because my understanding is that when it comes to OPP, not only every last lady but ALL the homies are down. 

[troph 24,914]

23 minutes ago, Hate said:

I couldn't agree more.  There are way too many labels I can't keep them all straight...no offense to the non straights.

[Hate 20,148]

[troph 24,914]

5 minutes ago, Hate said:

Too many labels? No offense to the non straights?

This ENM label is mostly a straight people thing. Gen Y and Gen Z needing something that sounds hip. Gays been fucking around without having to read about it in Slate or the Atlantic for a long time.

Edited January 26 by troph

[Hate 20,148]

I was making a play on words with "straight".  I don't care about labels and I don't care about what anyone does with anyone else as long as it consensual.  I'm a straight married 25+years  guy.  I have no idea what "label" I would have other than "boring".  I couldn't possibly care less about knowing.  Be whomever you feel you need to be.

[C-Man 27,285]

3 hours ago, CfRhTxStBobcats said:

You have an island in your dining room? Time to upgrade mi casa.

Sorry -- it was the island in the kitchen. Saw that typo a few days ago and was too lazy to edit.