2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Chuckie Finster 22759]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Changing courses now would 100% guarantee a Trump victory.  Sticking with Biden probably improves that to 65% or so.  Don't be stupid and change.  It's a horrible strategy.

As others have said, hype the economy, trash Project 2025, hammer on 34 convictions + civil trial losses + Roe V Wade.  In short, act like people with spines.  

It's funny, because our percentages are fairly similar but I have the scenarios reversed.

This isn't a scandal that gets better with time.  It's just who he is.  Every single time he opens his mouth or takes a step is a new opportunity for "Biden is old!" to be hammered into the heads of anyone remotely paying attention.   I think removing far and away the single biggest target on your back is a smart strategy.  Sure, the right will find new attack angles but there will be a limited amount of time for those to take hold.

That being said, this slow drip-drip-drip march to the guillotine is absolutely the worst way to go about it, and any chance of success will require Biden to get behind the change, which it is increasingly becoming evident will not happen.  So, in short, doomed.

Edited July 11 by Chuckie Finster

[Zonahorn 8079]

 

More positivity

[jimmyjazz 46470]

9 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Every single time he opens his mouth or takes a step is a new opportunity for "Biden is old!" to be hammered into the heads of anyone remotely paying attention.   I think removing far and away the single biggest target on your back is a smart strategy. 

But the valid counterpoint is that Trump is old, and has suffered all kinds of mental lapses and verbal mishmash.  It's not really a distinguishing factor between the two.  While I wouldn't bring up age w/o provocation, at least fight fire with fire.

[David Dennison 19117]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

But the valid counterpoint is that Trump is old, and has suffered all kinds of mental lapses and verbal mishmash.  It's not really a distinguishing factor between the two.  While I wouldn't bring up age w/o provocation, at least fight fire with fire.

That's been tried and it won't stick. Trump seems vibrant compared to Joe. That's just the way it is.

[SimonBolivar 10961]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

 It's not really a distinguishing factor between the two.  

In reality that may be true, but it isn't close to being true in the public's opinion which is what matters in a popularity contest.

[jimmyjazz 46470]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

That's been tried and it won't stick. Trump seems vibrant compared to Joe. That's just the way it is.

Not true.  He seemed more vibrant in the debate, but other than that, it's a horse race.

[aggie08 21578]

44 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The debate is over. Move forward. A fucking debate isn't the only forum these things can be said in.

I think I've made it pretty fucking clear over the past several years here that I wish we had better candidates and better messaging from Dems. But this is what we've got to work with now and Biden can absolutely still win if the Democratic party will stop shooting its own dick off. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the primary party messenger be the President of the United States? Like it or not, it's one of the President's primary jobs to be a salesman and sell his accomplishments and the positive direction the country is headed in.

Biden has real accomplishments and policy successes. Biden has a ton of ammo to he could unleash against the cruel and inept Trump GOP. But he sucks at that part of his job, even before the debate. Most of us just don't have faith anymore that he's capable of getting things back on message, where the should be. Every time he speaks, it's going to be rough.

Edited July 11 by aggie08

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But the valid counterpoint is that Trump is old, and has suffered all kinds of mental lapses and verbal mishmash.  It's not really a distinguishing factor between the two.  While I wouldn't bring up age w/o provocation, at least fight fire with fire.

How. Trump. Behaves. Doesn't. Matter. 

I cannot believe people are still "but Trump!"-ing. His voters and undecideds don't care. 34 felony convictions didn't move the needle. Enough with what "should be". That time has passed. 

Trump is still Trump in the eyes of all voters. Biden has changed. Adapt or die. 

 

 

 

[Nicole44 22197]

 

I really wish if the people who want him gone would ALL come together in one moment and do this swiftly. As many of us have mentioned this slow drip, drip, drip, and  this newly mouthed word salad that continues to happen from those on the Hill is weak and pathetic and quite frankly pussy.

 

Either finish come together in one voice and finish off his chances for a run OR get behind Kamala.
 

 It’s not that hard for me. At all. I don’t think he can run 4 more years. And I’m not sure he can run at this pace for the next few months.  But as many have said it is about the party and voting against Trump. This slow taking potshots at him on a daily basis is sad. It is devoid of courage. Either have the courage to tell him to go or have the courage to fight for him to stay. This middle of the road show us more is bullshit. 
 

This is heartbreaking to watch for many of us. 
 

The middle of the road afraid to speak their mindset is the equivalent of the below:

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Anytime Biden goes off script from the teleprompter it's usually bad.

Those that think Trump is either evil or at best an idiot is already baked in for the most part. Biden needs to drive people out to the polls. At some point he needs to demonstrate he can think quickly on his feet and inspire people.

We'll see how the big boy presser goes.

[jimmyjazz 46470]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

How. Trump. Behaves. Doesn't. Matter. 

I cannot believe people are still "but Trump!"-ing. His voters and undecideds don't care. 34 felony convictions didn't move the needle. Enough with what "should be". That time has passed. 

Trump is still Trump in the eyes of all voters. Biden has changed. Adapt or die. 

I find this to be a hilariously off-point take.  His voters don't matter.  Undecideds are that -- undecided.  I mean, it's the fucking name.  Democrat turnout needs to be epic.  That's the only chance.

You think Gavin Newsome could somehow take over the ticket and win?  That's a monumentally stupid idea, as would be anyone else.

[wildcat09 29453]

7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the primary party messenger be the President of the United States? Like it or not, it's one of the President's primary jobs to be a salesman and sell his accomplishments and the positive direction the country is headed in.

Biden has real accomplishments and policy successes. Biden has a ton of ammo to he could unleash against the cruel and inept Trump GOP. But he sucks at that part of his job, even before the debate. Most of us just don't have faith anymore that he's capable of getting things back on message, where the should be. Every time he speaks, it's going to be rough.

I didn't want him to be the nominee in 2020 because I thought he was too old and shitty at political messaging then, but it's a little fucking late for the entire party to just suddenly realize that now.

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

Trump is old and deranged, but looks like a spring chicken next to Biden. 

Put Kamala in and if Trump debates her, people's eyes will finally open regarding Trump's lack of competency and old senile bullshit. We need contrast, not a continued choice between two dinosaurs. 

 

[jimmyjazz 46470]

7 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

How. Trump. Behaves. Doesn't. Matter. 

I cannot believe people are still "but Trump!"-ing. His voters and undecideds don't care. 34 felony convictions didn't move the needle. Enough with what "should be". That time has passed. 

Trump is still Trump in the eyes of all voters. Biden has changed. Adapt or die. 

 

 

 

My response got lost in the ether.  I'm not typing it out again.  You're WAY wrong.

[Js1 85744]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Trump is old and deranged, but looks like a spring chicken next to Biden. 

Put Kamala in and if Trump debates her, people's eyes will finally open regarding Trump's lack of competency and old senile bullshit. We need contrast, not a continued choice between two dinosaurs. 

 

Oh no chance he debates a black woman on TV.  

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I find this to be a hilariously off-point take.  His voters don't matter.  Undecideds are that -- undecided.  I mean, it's the fucking name.  Democrat turnout needs to be epic.  That's the only chance.

You think Gavin Newsome could somehow take over the ticket and win?  That's a monumentally stupid idea, as would be anyone else.

If they are truly undecided, then all the Trump bullshit clearly doesn't bother them very much. 

Kamala is the only option IMO. 

 

 

[wildcat09 29453]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Trump is old and deranged, but looks like a spring chicken next to Biden. 

Put Kamala in and if Trump debates her, people's eyes will finally open regarding Trump's lack of competency and old senile bullshit. We need contrast, not a continued choice between two dinosaurs. 

 

People thought Hillary would destroy him in the debates too.

[wildcat09 29453]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If they are truly undecided, then all the Trump bullshit clearly doesn't bother them very much. 

Kamala is the only option IMO. 

 

 

A lot of undecideds are undecided because they haven't paid attention to Trump in four years and forgot what an asshole he is.  

[aggie08 21578]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I find this to be a hilariously off-point take.  His voters don't matter.  Undecideds are that -- undecided.  I mean, it's the fucking name.  Democrat turnout needs to be epic.  That's the only chance.

You think Gavin Newsome could somehow take over the ticket and win?  That's a monumentally stupid idea, as would be anyone else.

What Biden locks jump ship if there's a different nominee? Biden "loyalists" are just people who hate Trump at this point. No one's going to be butt hurt that they don't get to vote for an 82 year old anymore.

Undecideds, in a substantial number, want ANYONE (that can cobble together multiple coherent sentences) besides these two options from a major party. They want a way out. 

[David Dennison 19117]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A lot of undecideds are undecided because they haven't paid attention to Trump in four years and forgot what an asshole he is.  

Plus he's cracking jokes at rallies. 

What a hoot!

[Pam Cummings 9696]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

What Biden locks jump ship if there's a different nominee? Biden "loyalists" are just people who hate Trump at this point. No one's going to be butt hurt that they don't get to vote for an 82 year old anymore.

Undecideds, in a substantial number, want ANYONE (that can cobble together multiple coherent sentences) besides these two options from a major party. They want a way out. 

If you are still "undecided" you're a moron in my book. What is there to decide at this point? Do they even vote? Why should we care what non-voting people think?

Edited July 11 by Pam Cummings

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

People thought Hillary would destroy him in the debates too.

Using Hillary is a terrible example. She is/was hated by many and a long time political insider that people were tired of. I held by nose when voting for her. 

And I'm not saying Kamala would destroy Trump in a debate. But the simple contrast in appearance and cognitive ability would be striking. 

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1292]

21 hours ago, immamac said:

could you imagine how fucking stupid it was to force the debate issue and do a debate this fucking early in the process? I keep going back to that, it's like the largest unforced error in politics that I can ever remember. 

On Biden's part, sure. On the Democrats' part, it at least gives them a chance to get a better candidate.

[Zonahorn 8079]

1 hour ago, Duane Moore said:

This may help explain

 

Ah, a bunch of elected Democrats don’t understand they are dealing with facism

[jimmyjazz 46470]

I don't know why Trump would debate anyone at this point.  He won.  Take your ball and go home.

[Js1 85744]

12 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

If they are truly undecided, then all the Trump bullshit clearly doesn't bother them very much. 

Kamala is the only option IMO. 

 

 

I do agree Kamala is the only/better option. The voters claim they want younger. Give them younger.  Give her the war chest, the infrastructure and a good VP and you’ve got a stew going 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2853]

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You think Gavin Newsome could somehow take over the ticket and win? 

I think he would win convincingly.

[wildcat09 29453]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

What Biden locks jump ship if there's a different nominee? Biden "loyalists" are just people who hate Trump at this point. No one's going to be butt hurt that they don't get to vote for an 82 year old anymore.

Undecideds, in a substantial number, want ANYONE (that can cobble together multiple coherent sentences) besides these two options from a major party. They want a way out. 

This isn't the fucking West Wing, man. Remember all the interparty drama in spring of 2020? All the sniping between Warren and Bernie supporters, all the conspiracy shit about the voting app in Iowa during the primaries? Even running against a monster like Trump, it actually takes serious work to cohere support around one candidate. Imagine all that drama multiplied by a hundred and compressed into a very short timeline with no summer or fall for everyone to get their shit sorted out and organize after a winner emerges. And if that winner isn't Harris, starting over from fucking scratch both in money and in campaign personnel.  

The Democratic party is fucking terrible at a lot of politics. But they generally know how to run a normal campaign. They need to make this as close to something they're used to doing as they can, because the Democratic party trying to figure out how to do politics in truly uncharted waters should fucking terrify you. 

[mdmost 43294]

He would have to debate Kamala or he looks like a coward to a lot of undecided voters. He can say he doesn't want to put old man Biden through another debate. He can't use that excuse with Kamala. 

[Chuckie Finster 22759]

15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

A lot of undecideds are undecided because they haven't paid attention to Trump in four years and forgot what an asshole he is.  

And now, when you put them together on the same stage, Joe's oldness far overshadows whatever the hell comes out of Trump's mouth.

[wildcat09 29453]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

He would have to debate Kamala or he looks like a coward to a lot of undecided voters. He can say he doesn't want to put old man Biden through another debate. He can't use that excuse with Kamala. 

He could pretty easily just say they won't agree to fair rules or whatever.

[mdmost 43294]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

He could pretty easily just say they won't agree to fair rules or whatever.

And he would still look like a coward. I doubt Kamala would change any of the already agreed upon rules. Trump already signed off on 3 debates. 

Edited July 11 by mdmost

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't know why Trump would debate anyone at this point.  He won.  Take your ball and go home.

Well, he definitely doesn't need to debate Biden again. But if Trump declined to debate Kamala? That could affect voters and help Dems. 

[4th&Five 41701]

20 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Trump is old and deranged, but looks like a spring chicken next to Biden. 

Put Kamala in and if Trump debates her, people's eyes will finally open regarding Trump's lack of competency and old senile bullshit. We need contrast, not a continued choice between two dinosaurs. 

 

all joe needs is a bad wig and some bronzer slapped all over his face!

[Foosters 17918]

This is a fun talk and all, but we know that if the dems try to replace JB, Trump's just going to sue and have SCOTUS order the dems to keep Biden on the ticket.

[Schulz2.0 29039]

12 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Why should we care what non-voting people think?

Because we need the undecideds and independents to get out in vote. It was a big part in Biden winning in 2020.

[Js1 85744]

Nyt today:

Cooling inflation

IRS crackdown of millionaires

Trump visiting Orban

Trump’s anti-NATO stance

Vivid explainer on Project 2025

Editorial about why Trump is unfit to be POTUS

 

Are they finally figuring out that being anti-Biden is not going to save them from a media crackdown by a second Trump admin? 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11822]

11 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Yeah I had a friend text during the debate "Geez I was gonna vote for Biden but think I'll just stay home at this point. That was pathetic. Two terrible options."

I guess we'll see what the turnout is like in November. 

This pisses me off so bad.  Yeah Biden is old and decrepit.  What are the alternatives?  Trump?  Is 'Merica gonna vote for a black woman named Kamala?  A gay man named Pete?  A Californian?  Hell fucking no.  The hate engine has spent the last 30 years tearing all of those options down.  We need a democrat Hitler and we need him now. 

 

[mdmost 43294]

Just now, Foosters said:

This is a fun talk and all, but we know that if the dems try to replace JB, Trump's just going to sue and have SCOTUS order the dems to keep Biden on the ticket.

Until the convention, the Democrats can replace Biden until he's nominated. If Biden were to step down, which is preferred, then Kamala is President and Biden could release his already won delegates, just like Nikki Haley did the other day. 

[wildcat09 29453]

5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

And now, when you put them together on the same stage, Joe's oldness far overshadows whatever the hell comes out of Trump's mouth.

Except it fucking didn't man! 

Quote

Seeing the dominant narrative coming out of the debate, Lazer and the team at CHIP50 decided to test the hypothesis that Biden had lost ground in public opinion after the debate. Notably, Lazer says, they didn’t survey two different cross-sectional groups of people before and after the debate like most polls. Instead, the team was able to survey the same group of respondents from a survey conducted before the debate.

Lazer says using the same group of people helps make the results more precise, which is important in polling that inherently has a margin of error.

What the report finds is that Biden held on to 94% of the people who said they would support him before the debate. For Trump, 86% of people who said they would support him before the debate said they would do so after the debate. 

“What we see is that there is some churn –– maybe 10 percent or so of people change what they answer –– but that the net result is not a movement away from Biden,” Lazer says. “If anything, it seems that Biden is holding on to his people somewhat better than Trump.”

In fact, generally, the shift in support was actually more in Biden’s favor, although Lazer notes it’s not statistically significant and well within the margin of error.

There were very minor shifts between the candidates: 1% of people who said they would vote for Biden before the debate, switched to preferring Trump, while 3% switched from Trump to Biden. Similarly, respondents who said they were unsure who they would vote for before the debate were slightly more likely to switch to preferring Biden after the debate.

“[It all] points in the same direction, which is that it seems unlikely, based on our data, that things shifted toward Trump after the debate,” Lazer says. “If anything, our point estimate is a little more toward Biden, but I wouldn’t make a lot of noise about that.”

You're projecting yourself onto undecided voters. Stop doing that. 

Edited July 11 by wildcat09

[Nice Guy Eddie 13539]

23 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Trump is old and deranged, but looks like a spring chicken next to Biden. 

Put Kamala in and if Trump debates her, people's eyes will finally open regarding Trump's lack of competency and old senile bullshit. We need contrast, not a continued choice between two dinosaurs. 

 

I would be surprised if there will be any more debates. I don't see Biden agreeing to another debate unless he magically comes alive. And Trump would not debate anyone who isn't Biden. 

[mdmost 43294]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would be surprised if there will be any more debates. I don't see Biden agreeing to another debate unless he magically comes alive. And Trump would not debate anyone who isn't Biden. 

Biden would want another debate to prove he's still capable. 

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

 

[Pam Cummings 9696]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

Zero? And you don't find this to be hyperbolic or over-the-top, even just a little bit?

[Hank Kingsley 21083]

 

[wildcat09 29453]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

I will say that if he's deteriorated so much that those closest to him don't think he can finish the campaign, I do think he should both withdraw and resign as President so that Kamala can campaign as the incumbent taking up the reins. It really doesn't make much sense for him to withdraw from the race but still remain President. 

[aggie08 21578]

18 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If you are still "undecided" you're a moron in my book. What is there to decide at this point? Do they even vote? Why should we care what non-voting people think?

Get out of your bubble. Most sane people don't follow politics religiously. All they know is that they have two shit choices right now. Should they suck it up and vote for the obviously better choice, even if a Trump presidency isn't as potentially damaging to them as it is to others? Abso-fucking-lutely. And I tell them as much.

Call them a moron all you want (and you're not necessary wrong), but the "what's the point" apathy creeps in like a mother fucker.

[Js1 85744]

Lobo hasn’t been around in a few days to remind us that all the racists who are already coming out for Trump will come out harder against Kamala. Despite the obvious bump in enthusiasm for younger voters and voters of color and the base who is pretty demoralized. 

AKA is ready to mobilize hard for POTUS/candidate Harris. 

Edited July 11 by Js1

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

I will say that if he's deteriorated so much that those closest to him don't think he can finish the campaign, I do think he should both withdraw and resign as President so that Kamala can campaign as the incumbent taking up the reins. It really doesn't make much sense for him to withdraw from the race but still remain President. 

it'd be really cool.  four months of showing she can do it, four months of everyone used to seeing her behind the podium, would really go a long way.  

[Chuckie Finster 22759]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Except it fucking didn't man! 

You're projecting yourself onto undecided voters. Stop doing that. 

By overshadowed, I meant that Biden's age was THE talking point post-Debate.  On this website, on social media, in text groups... nobody remembers the crazy shit Trump said that night (and there was a lot) because everyone was so busy talking about Joe.