2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Rimbo 25913]

NSIAP:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-dont-want-biden-as-the-democratic-candidate-but-he-hasnt-lost-ground-to-trump-poll-says

Quote

“We have a race that didn’t change much,” said Amy Walter of the Cook Political Report with Amy Walter. “If you’re Biden, this poll suggests you’re in fine shape to continue.”

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

9 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Every response to this should be "when are the Republicans replacing their candidate? Why aren't we asking about that?"

Because the people voting for democrats want a better candidate and the people voting for republicans would sacrifice their children for Trump. 

[Goredho 17397]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't think there is any polling anywhere suggesting a "guaranteed" loss, and I agree, neither of us know for sure how either way would play out, but if he's not stepping down, undermining him publicly by calling for it is just making it less and less likely that he can win. Just swallow your personal feelings and get behind him to give him the best chance at a win. That's my thought on how this should be handled.

We'll see if Biden can consistently avoid reminding people that his mental acuity is fading fast and that he has no business being President except due to the alternative.  If he can and wins, then you will prove to be right.  If he can't and loses, then you will prove to be wrong, and we'll look back at this time and wish a change was made.  I don't care which path the dems take personally, except that they choose the right one. Given where they have maneuvered themselves with Biden, I have no confidence in their ability to navigate a straight line, let alone a winner takes all election.  We'll see.

[YGIFS 19449]

1 minute ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Because the people voting for democrats want a better candidate and the people voting for republicans would sacrifice their children for Trump. 

 

[DixonHur 11296]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

NSIAP:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-dont-want-biden-as-the-democratic-candidate-but-he-hasnt-lost-ground-to-trump-poll-says

 

Honestly this highlights the idea that Biden should drop out and strengthens the case for Whitmer.

This is a national poll, so what % of the nation do you think even knows who she is at this point?  Yet she's tied with Trump and only 1 point behind the incumbent.  

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

3 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

I struggle with any poll that has Kennedy receiving greater than 3% of the vote. The last independent candidate to get that high of a percentage was Gary Johnson. 

Where do the people who are Kennedy voters in these polls actually end up?

It’s easy to be upset with Biden about Gaza or his age and tell a pollster that I’m pulling the lever for Kennedy. It’s a completely different thing to actually do it in the voting booth.

Most people in this country don't really have a vote for president that matters. So it's really easy to hold your nose and vote third party, even if the third party candidate can't hold his nose because too many crayons are jammed up it. The vote doesn't matter anyway, and they don't want to vote for the child rapist or the senile old man. They want to ensure they vote for a loser so it's not their fault.

[Nicole44 22059]

Bc this kind of thing has never happened I do think the message is from high above. The Powers That Be don’t want Biden. It also appears that TPTB do not want Kamala. As an independent the last couple of years (7 to be exact) I have always wanted an open convention. Get a chance to see more than just the one handpicked person and their handpicked VP. 
 

Today is more drip drip drip but with more stinging acid. It feels like a bigger shot across the bow to get him to step aside. I fear they are prepared to sink the whole Biden ship if he doesn’t. Ughhhhh

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

NSIAP:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/majority-of-americans-dont-want-biden-as-the-democratic-candidate-but-he-hasnt-lost-ground-to-trump-poll-says

 

Also Cook Political Report:

 

 

[MrBig 5385]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

These people who are pushing for Biden to step aside or even not showing up for events are not doing it out of some "good of the party" perspective, they are political animals trying to read the tea leaves and then position themselves for the next step in their careers.

How dare these political animals read the room and act in a way that positions them to have more favorable career options in the future.

What kind of political animals shun the sitting president over the vocal concerns of their constituents to choose another candidate. How dare they shove loyalty for the President aside for the will of the voters. 

[gmr548 16576]

That wouldn't actually change anything about his position as the nominee. The whole Democratic Party needs to be united in wanting to rewrite their rules and remove him from the ticket.

20 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

After this the Dems either need to get behind him 100% or come at him 100%. It’s not going to be half speak word salad half measures. Dems on the Hill and all pundits need to frt the message. It’s no half measures. Be 100% united which just has to be the case. He’s not stepping down. 

You will getour word salad and you will like it.

19 hours ago, CTC2 said:

I get that the visual of Biden is sometimes hard to watch, but if you listen to him, and the command he has of the issues, and then compare that to anything Trump has ever said, I really don’t understand what we are even talking about anymore. 

He speaks like an elderly parent or grand parent who has a hard time getting their thoughts out. I feel bad for him. He is too old to be President, always has been (and I have always thought that), and he is now mortally wounded as a politician. I do not see how he comes back from this saga even as it will fade out of the news cycle next week.

Despite the fact that these name gaffes are being wildly overblown and he did show he still has substantive command of the job, this country does not have the luxury of letting him go down with the ship. He does not necessarily deserve to be pushed out but politics is a blood sport.

That said, I expect he will remain the nominee. Democrats are not going to unify on replacing him. I will vote for him, but my expectation is Trump wins 300+ EVs.

[lemonlime 5503]

You have one party that's completely unseriousness, running a bigoted felon who thinks windmills cause cancer.  While they're whipping up their base over bathrooms and drag queen story hour.

Meanwhile, the only party that is ostensibly serious about governing, is running someone who is rapidly losing the capability to govern.

You win by drawing a contrast to the clown car.  Frankly, at this point Biden isn't providing much to contrast with.  The party itself certainly isn't if they think installling an 82-year-old who appears to be in the beginning stages of dementia is a way to govern.

[hobbes2702 13029]

20 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Bc this kind of thing has never happened I do think the message is from high above. The Powers That Be don’t want Biden. It also appears that TPTB do not want Kamala. As an independent the last couple of years (7 to be exact) I have always wanted an open convention. Get a chance to see more than just the one handpicked person and their handpicked VP. 
 

Today is more drip drip drip but with more stinging acid. It feels like a bigger shot across the bow to get him to step aside. I fear they are prepared to sink the whole Biden ship if he doesn’t. Ughhhhh

They weren’t “handpicked”. People voted for them.

Edited July 12 by hobbes2702

[CTC2 2792]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

That wouldn't actually change anything about his position as the nominee. The whole Democratic Party needs to be united in wanting to rewrite their rules and remove him from the ticket.

You will getour word salad and you will like it.

He speaks like an elderly parent or grand parent who has a hard time getting their thoughts out. I feel bad for him. He is too old to be President, always has been (and I have always thought that), and he is now mortally wounded as a politician. I do not see how he comes back from this saga even as it will fade out of the news cycle next week.

Despite the fact that these name gaffes are being wildly overblown and he did show he still has substantive command of the job, this country does not have the luxury of letting him go down with the ship. He does not necessarily deserve to be pushed out but politics is a blood sport.

That said, I expect he will remain the nominee. Democrats are not going to unify on replacing him. I will vote for him, but my expectation is Trump wins 300+ EVs.

I don’t disagree but the prevailing thought that Biden is losing his mind and Trump is somehow cognitively healthy is more what I was pointing out.  

[Nicole44 22059]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

They were “handpicked”. People voted for them.

I wonder what it would be like if we had more skin in the game. Have the conventions earlier in the year like April when nothing is really happening. Have an open convention with 5-6 candidates. Many people feel like the primaries don’t get it done. I don’t know.
 

But this drip drip drip drip attack against Biden can only mean one thing: no one from up high is telling them to stop and get behind Biden so it means more drip drip drip until he steps down. Jmo. But I don’t know shit about shit. 

[Js1 85295]

22 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

As an independent the last couple of years (7 to be exact) I have always wanted an open convention. Get a chance to see more than just the one handpicked person and their handpicked VP. 

Why do you feel entitled to tell the Democratic Party who their nominee should be if you aren't even a Democrat?  Or that the Democratic Party should listen to your open convention idea if, again, you're not part of the party.

This is Nicole being Bernie - I am not going to be part of your party, but placate what I want!!!!! 

[hobbes2702 13029]

How do the primaries “not get it done”? People vote, someone wins. 
Hes not stepping down so the drip is doing nothing but help Trump. It’s just an amazing example of shooting your dick off because you’re afraid that having one means you’ll get AIDS.

[South Austin 52456]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Why do you feel entitled to tell the Democratic Party who their nominee should be if you aren't even a Democrat?  Or that the Democratic Party should listen to your open convention idea if, again, you're not part of the party.

This is Nicole being Bernie - I am not going to be part of your party, but placate what I want!!!!! 

What do you expect from someone who may or may not be the Rainey Street Killer?

[Js1 85295]

Just now, South Austin said:

What do you expect from someone who may or may not be the Rainey Street Killer?

So I just made the list?

 

[HornOnTheBayou 8919]

5 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I wonder what it would be like if we had more skin in the game. Have the conventions earlier in the year like April when nothing is really happening. Have an open convention with 5-6 candidates. Many people feel like the primaries don’t get it done. I don’t know.

I have no idea what any of this means.

[South Austin 52456]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

So I just made the list?

Stick to West Sixth and you should be fine.

[Hank Kingsley 20907]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

How do the primaries “not get it done”? People vote, someone wins. 
Hes not stepping down so the drip is doing nothing but help Trump. It’s just an amazing example of shooting your dick off because you’re afraid that having one means you’ll get AIDS.

Or your dick currently has AIDS, but there is a procedure available to detach the AIDS dick and replace it with a younger, stronger, and more virile dick. 

 

[Js1 85295]

1 minute ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

I have no idea what any of this means.

In hindsight, yes, maybe someone should have challenged Biden in the primary.

But guess what?  Challenging an incumbent who, at the time, had an extremely strong approval amongst his party's constituents, is political suicide.  And would have just done what we are now, but earlier - fractured the party.  

[DixonHur 11296]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Why do you feel entitled to tell the Democratic Party who their nominee should be if you aren't even a Democrat?  Or that the Democratic Party should listen to your open convention idea if, again, you're not part of the party.

Probably because independents like her and me don't want Trump to be president again, but the Dems are currently fucking it up for all of us.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33867]

ah yes, the reappearance of the "stop hitting yourself" defense

[hobbes2702 13029]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Probably because independents like her and me don't want Trump to be president again, but the Dems are currently fucking it up for all of us.

“Independents”. Lulz.

[Js1 85295]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

“Independents”. Lulz.

Independents = nominate who i want you to and how i want you to, but I won't be part of your party, donate money to your candidates, contribute to volunteering/GOTV

Independents want to be treated like

[Nicole44 22059]

9 minutes ago, Js1 said:

So I just made the list?

 

 

[DixonHur 11296]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

“Independents”. Lulz.

Why? 

You don't believe the middle exists?  Or are you confusing us with undecideds?  

I know I'm voting Dem in this election, but I also know a lot of my friends are sitting this out.

[hobbes2702 13029]

Just now, Js1 said:

Independents = nominate who i want you to and how i want you to, but I won't be part of your party, donate money to your candidates, contribute to volunteering/GOTV

Independents want to be treated like

I’m not a party member and don’t want to be. I supported Bernie, still do, but he lost. That’s how it works. Joe won, he’s the guy, get in line.

Just now, DixonHur said:

Why? 

You don't believe the middle exists?  Or are you confusing us with undecideds?  

I know I'm voting Dem in this election, but I also know a lot of my friends are sitting this out.

Sitting out doesn’t make you an independent, it makes you a moron in the current times.

[Goredho 17397]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Why do you feel entitled to tell the Democratic Party who their nominee should be if you aren't even a Democrat?  Or that the Democratic Party should listen to your open convention idea if, again, you're not part of the party.

This is Nicole being Bernie - I am not going to be part of your party, but placate what I want!!!!! 

Dems white knighting their party against centrist, middle of the road voters who are begging for someone to have faith in is a sure path to victory.  I wish Eisenhower had been smart enough to tell Canada and Britain to fuck off in the lead up to D-Day…

[DixonHur 11296]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Independents = nominate who i want you to and how i want you to, but I won't be part of your party, donate money to your candidates, contribute to volunteering/GOTV

Independents want to be treated like

Cool, cool.  If you don't want us, we'll just sit this one out.  Have fun living under fascism. 

[DixonHur 11296]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Sitting out doesn’t make you an independent, it makes you a moron in the current times.

You're assuming that we'll fare poorly under a 2nd Trump presidency.

I'd prefer Trump lose, but if he wins, I'll be fine.

[HornOnTheBayou 8919]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Cool, cool.  If you don't want us, we'll just sit this one out.  Have fun living under fascism. 

Yeah, y'all stop being such meanie-pants or he'll have no choice but to vote for Trump. 

[hobbes2702 13029]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

You're assuming that we'll fare poorly under a 2nd Trump presidency.

I'd prefer Trump lose, but if he wins, I'll be fine.

“Independents”. Lulz. The most bitchmade of bitchmade

Edited July 12 by hobbes2702

[jimmyjazz 45893]

Ah, for the halcyon days of Joe vs Bernie vs Elizabeth.

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

You're assuming that we'll fare poorly under a 2nd Trump presidency.

I'd prefer Trump lose, but if he wins, I'll be fine.

Wait, what?  You've perused those Project 2025 talking points and you think things will be OK, even if just for you?

[hobbes2702 13029]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Dems white knighting their party against centrist, middle of the road voters who are begging for someone to have faith in is a sure path to victory.  I wish Eisenhower had been smart enough to tell Canada and Britain to fuck off in the lead up to D-Day…

Or maybe Dems shouldn’t give a fuck about what a bunch of republicans, I mean independents think. The independents they should be courting are not the people like Dixon. 
Im sure Dixon and his independent friends would line up to vote Kamala.

[HornOnTheBayou 8919]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait, what?  You've perused those Project 2025 talking points and you think things will be OK, even if just for you?

Sure. Didn't you hear about overtime? Once Trump gets rid of those onerous overtime payment laws, corporations are going to start spending money to make sure their employees have free child care, paid maternity/paternity leave, top-of-the-line health care, and a water park on site to enjoy during lunch breaks.

[F250 28764]

This thread.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

9 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Sitting out doesn’t make you an independent, it makes you a moron in the current times.

Depends on the State.  My vote is completely worthless in Louisiana… now if I lived in PA, GA, AZ, FL, OH, WI or Michigan then sitting out would be idiotic.

But thanks to the Electoral College and arbitrary geography determining the value of my ballot, I can abstain completely guilt free!  Perhaps it’s our entire system of choosing a leader that is the real moron here. 

[YGIFS 19449]

26 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I wonder what it would be like if we had more skin in the game. Have the conventions earlier in the year like April when nothing is really happening. Have an open convention with 5-6 candidates. Many people feel like the primaries don’t get it done. I don’t know.
 

But this drip drip drip drip attack against Biden can only mean one thing: no one from up high is telling them to stop and get behind Biden so it means more drip drip drip until he steps down. Jmo. But I don’t know shit about shit. 

You say "drip" a lot for somebody who watches the last water droplets secrete from a person's mouth as they sink to the bottom of Town Lake       But I get your point, it's valid. 

9 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Why? 

You don't believe the middle exists?  Or are you confusing us with undecideds?  

I know I'm voting Dem in this election, but I also know a lot of my friends are sitting this out.

There is absolutely a moderate/middle America.  But it doesn't grab headlines, it's not sexy, and you can't raise money from it.  So nobody gives a shit.  

But yes, we need to retire the term "undecideds."  They're not Undecided, they just don't vote.  That's a difference of tremendous significance.  Over 100 million Americans 18+ didn't vote in 2020.  They weren't "undecided", they were just not participating.  This fucking delusion that 100mm people still have votes there for the taking is fucking moronic, naive, and insulting to the rest of us---even those that vote for Trump.  You can be a moderate, and spread your votes around both major parties, even some third parties.  I have no fucking idea how to vote in NHL All-Star game.  Doesn't make me "Undecided", it makes me a non-participant.  I can be moderate on it, "Well I grew up a Blackhawks fan, but this Red Wings defenseman deserves to get into the game."  

Yes, there are 9 people that will decide on Election Day morning, after actually stewing over it before bed, whom to vote for that day in Pittsburgh and Green Bay.  But there are literally 100mm eligible voters in this country that are not "undecided", they are in fact "decided."  They've decided to stay home, they always have and they always will.  The trick Trump pulled was pulling off 20mm of 'em 8 years ago to validate them.  Otherwise, they're a a lost cause.  Yeah, let's trot Joe out there and spend $50mm in ad buys to convince 75mm adults who've never once voted in their life that his infrastructure bill was a great idea.  they're decidedly disengaged because it's easier.  Say you want about MAGA dipshit nation, they know how to fill out a fucking voter registration card.  Meanwhile we got between 75-100mm American adults who look at the shitshow around us and think, "Well, I probably should pay more attention but I have a Wal-Mart curbside order to pickup that day."  

[DixonHur 11296]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Ah, for the halcyon days of Joe vs Bernie vs Elizabeth.

Wait, what?  You've perused those Project 2025 talking points and you think things will be OK, even if just for you?

Which talking points do you think a 53 yo, white, straight, cis, land-owning, male with enough money to retire overseas tomorrow should worry about?

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Or maybe Dems shouldn’t give a fuck about what a bunch of republicans, I mean independents think. The independents they should be courting are not the people like Dixon. 
Im sure Dixon and his independent friends would line up to vote Kamala.

Nope.  Gretchen.  

Again, if for no other reason, take me out of the equation because I live in Texas, but if you don't want input from independents then that's fine.  Good luck and godspeed.  

[Js1 85295]

12 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Cool, cool.  If you don't want us, we'll just sit this one out.  Have fun living under fascism. 

I mean, if you make the choice to sit out, no I don’t really want you. Because it means you don’t care and you wouldn’t be upset if Trump won.

Im tired of the “if you don’t placate me, im sitting out”

You’re toddlers who don’t understand politics. 

[jimmyjazz 45893]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Which talking points do you think a 53 yo, white, straight, cis, land-owning, male with enough money to retire overseas tomorrow should worry about?

Do you care about anyone but yourself?

[Js1 85295]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Do you care about anyone but yourself?

They just want to bitch. They don’t care 

[Goredho 17397]

Dems running against everyone talk not going away.

[hobbes2702 13029]

18 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Which talking points do you think a 53 yo, white, straight, cis, land-owning, male with enough money to retire overseas tomorrow should worry about?

Nope.  Gretchen.  

Again, if for no other reason, take me out of the equation because I live in Texas, but if you don't want input from independents then that's fine.  Good luck and godspeed.  

Thank you for proving the point that independents are exactly what @Js1 said they are. Do it their way only or they take their ball and go home.

“Independents” are not serious people. But then again, they aren’t really independent either.

Edited July 12 by hobbes2702

[hobbes2702 13029]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Which talking points do you think a 53 yo, white, straight, cis, land-owning, male with enough money to retire overseas tomorrow should worry about?

Nope.  Gretchen.  

Again, if for no other reason, take me out of the equation because I live in Texas, but if you don't want input from independents then that's fine.  Good luck and godspeed.  

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, if you make the choice to sit out, no I don’t really want you. Because it means you don’t care and you wouldn’t be upset if Trump won.

Im tired of the “if you don’t placate me, im sitting out”

You’re toddlers who don’t understand politics. 

Exactly. 

[Nicole44 22059]

I get my wishlist isn’t ever going to happen. 
 

I am just telling you what I am seeing:

Dem after dem telling Biden to step down. No one is telling them to stop and get in line. $90 million is being frozen. Jeffries didn’t offer his endorsement. Pelosi and Obama have had several meetings about what to do. 
 

it has the look that this drip drip drip will continue or even get more pronounced until he drops out. Do I think that’s fair? No. But I’m not the higher ups. They are the ones pummeling Biden right now and allowing it. They are allowing it. And sanctioning it is what it looks like to me. 
 

I’ve never seen anything like this. It’s sad. I’m never voting Trump. Whatever soul I still have in me won’t allow it. I’m voting for whoever comes out of this Democratic convention. But it’s looking less and less likely that it will be Biden. 
 

be mad at me all you want I guess but if the higher ups wanted people to get in line behind Biden they would make it happen. They have not. So I have to assume whoever we are voting for is not going to be Biden. It might or might not be Kamala. If they go crazy and have an open convention. 

[Goredho 17397]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

I get my wishlist isn’t ever going to happen. 
 

I am just telling you what I am seeing:

Dem after dem telling Biden to step down. No one is telling them to stop and get in line. $90 million is being frozen. Jeffries didn’t offer his endorsement. Pelosi and Obama have had several meetings about what to do. 
 

it has the look that this drip drip drip will continue or even get more pronounced until he drops out. Do I think that’s fair? No. But I’m not the higher ups. They are the ones pummeling Biden right now and allowing it. They are allowing it. And sanctioning it is what it looks like to me. 
 

I’ve never seen anything like this. It’s sad. I’m never voting Trump. Whatever soul I still have in me won’t allow it. I’m voting for whoever comes out of this Democratic convention. But it’s looking less and less likely that it will be Biden. 
 

be mad at me all you want I guess but if the higher ups wanted people to get in line behind Biden they would make it happen. They have not. So I have to assume whoever we are voting for is not going to be Biden. It might or might not be Kamala. If they go crazy and have an open convention. 

What’s the current bag limit on messengers, Dems?

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Christ.

 

That’s disrespectful and unacceptable.  If he wants to be the leader of the party then lead the party,