2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[babysdaddy 2728]

12 minutes ago, Pancho said:

MSNBC just showed a snipped of Biden’s interview with Lester Holt

 

Sweet Jesus. He does way better with crowds and energy.

 

 

 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Let's take your hypothetical chart. There are have been four successful presidential assassinations over the ~250 years the US has been around. So, had he been successful, one every 43 years or so sounds pretty consistent with our observed data. Of course, there have also been numerous foiled attempts, including ones against H.W., Clinton, G.W., Obama, and Biden. These are rare events, but I'm guessing if you plot them by year, 2024 doesn't look anything like an outlier. 

Anyway, I just question the use of the term because it suggests an unexpected result. You agree this is not unexpected, so it sounds like we generally agree. 

We do NOT generally agree except this was not unexpected. The Trump shooter, even if you go back to start with Andrew Jackson, was very much an outlier by any outlier definition. Stop arguing. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26578]

1 hour ago, Zonahorn said:

Good luck with that Trump.

I’m not going to defend JD Vance, but two things:

1) this is pretty clearly not what Vance is saying, the gist of which is that the the sexual revolution led to an explosion of divorce that has not been good for working families or middle class children on either a cultural or economic level. His audience will understand it.

2) second, he’s right. And I am certainly no fan of JD Vance or suggesting that people should stay in violent marriages. 
 

Affluent white progressives, who generally have the privilege of not living in economically depressed places or personally impacted by losing elections will no doubt jump all over this, and it will be wasted effort because they don’t understand the lived reality of middle class life in America. 
 

This biggest mistake Democrats have made in the last 35 years is not explicitly pushing economic policies that make single  incomes viable for middle class families. 

Edited July 15 by Bozo_Casanova

[Dnaguy 12101]

1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

Admitting mistakes isn’t going to get you elected. Yikes.

[Rex Kramer 1370]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait . . . I thought you two were slap-fighting over people wanting to kill "liberals", not POTUS or POTUS candidates?

Yeah but you’re a moron, so…

[Dahobbs 17690]

3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

We do NOT generally agree except this was not unexpected. The Trump shooter, even if you go back to start with Andrew Jackson, was very much an outlier by any outlier definition. Stop arguing. 

Yes, I get that you disagree on the usage of the word. You have a different definition. That's fine. I'm saying we agree conceptually. It is ok. calm your ass down. 

Edited July 15 by Dahobbs

[Radical Larry 28664]

Sounds lovely. 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, I get that you disagree on the usage of the word. You have a different definition. That's fine. I'm saying we agree conceptually. It is ok. calm your ass down. 

[jimmyjazz 46217]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Yeah but you’re a moron, so…

I'm referring to your quote, so pardon me if my low intellect somehow allowed me to conflate two different discussions (which I don't think actually happened, but whatever):

Quote

I suppose but even then, there are not 1 million MAGA who’d be seeking to kill liberals.

 

[Jive Turkey 12646]

I know none of this matters to voters. Maybe to a sliver of independents. Maybe. But this is just overtly signaling where we’re headed. And Trump can say this is from his Yale Law School VP. 

 

[bolverk 29728]

6 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I’m UMC. Technically, I’m evangelical. The Book of Revelations and apocalyptic forecasts are laughable. All of my peers are UMC, Presby, Baptist or non-denom Bible-based. I don’t know one who believes in this stuff, at least as it pertains to the application of their every day life. It is literally never cited in my peers’ universal support for Israel. So, if my anecdotes are not in line with the rest of the country, I’m blissful in my ignorance in how most Christians think. 

I will say, I don’t think like most Christians on a variety of topics, so just add this one to the fucking list. 

Then, we come to the same conclusion as last time. You're a rich guy from Highland Park who probably runs in rich guy circles (didn't you go to SMU?), and you're out of touch with what rural evangelicals (most of whom never went to college) believe about the Apocolypse. Again, I grew up in the First Baptist Church of my small West Texas hometown. Those people believe every single bit of it...passionately.

If you don't believe me, think of all the worst shit televangelist frauds spew. I can't tell you how many "the end of the world will be at 4pm on October 3rd" bullshit scares I had to endure growing up. And, yes, many of them also fantasize about killing Democrats, liberals, progressives, and so on.

[Macanudo 13015]

37 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Isn't he from Appalachia?

We're all from Appalachia. 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

5 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Admitting mistakes isn’t going to get you elected. Yikes.

Biden could return to 2020 debate form, beat Trump in his $1M golf bet, and umpire an MLB game Leslie Nielsen style and it wouldn’t matter. The seed of the worst doubt has been planted.  He’s not getting elected. 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm referring to your quote, so pardon me if my low intellect somehow allowed me to conflate two different discussions (which I don't think actually happened, but whatever):

 

That was C-Man, you conflating ballsack

[rage-a-holic 4486]

37 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Wait...a VP who previously made demeaning comments about the Presidential candidate that picked him for the slot?

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN US HISTORY!!!!!!! OUTRAGE!!!!!

[jimmyjazz 46217]

5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Then, we come to the same conclusion as last time. You're a rich guy from Highland Park who probably runs in rich guy circles (didn't you go to SMU?), and you're out of touch with what rural evangelicals (most of whom never went to college) believe about the Apocolypse. Again, I grew up in the First Baptist Church of my small West Texas hometown. Those people believe every single bit of it...passionately.

You are absolutely correct.

[Orale 1098]

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’m not going to defend JD Vance, but two things:

1) this is pretty clearly not what Vance is saying, the gist of which is that the the sexual revolution led to an explosion of divorce that has not been good for working families or middle class children on either a cultural or economic level. His audience will understand it.

2) second, he’s right. And I am certainly no fan of JD Vance or suggesting that people should stay in violent marriages. 
 

Affluent white progressives, who generally have the privilege of not living in economically depressed places or personally impacted by losing elections will no doubt jump all over this, and it will be wasted effort because they don’t understand the lived reality of middle class life in America. 
 

This biggest mistake Democrats have made in the last 35 years is not explicitly pushing economic policies that make single  incomes viable for middle class families. 

His message may have been broadly about the casualness of quitting marriage. But he did specify violent marriages. Nobody put words in his mouth or is disingenuously interpreting his message. Suggesting women (or men) should stay in violent marriages for the sake of the kids strikes me as insane. 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Then, we come to the same conclusion as last time. You're a rich guy from Highland Park who probably runs in rich guy circles (didn't you go to SMU?), and you're out of touch with what rural evangelicals (most of whom never went to college) believe about the Apocolypse. Again, I grew up in the First Baptist Church of my small West Texas hometown. Those people believe every single bit of it...passionately.

If you don't believe me, think of all the worst shit televangelist frauds spew. I can't tell you how many "the end of the world will be at 4pm on October 3rd" bullshit scares I had to endure growing up. And, yes, many of them also fantasize about killing Democrats, liberals, progressives, and so on.

I’m not rich and didnt go to fucking SMU. Ugh. 

I know many East Texas, Midland and Beaumont evangelicals. None of them think this way. 

[bolverk 29728]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You are absolutely correct.

As someone who grew up in Rolla, MO, on the edge of the Ozarks, you would know, too.

[hobbes2702 13078]

5 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

Wait...a VP who previously made demeaning comments about the Presidential candidate that picked him for the slot?

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN US HISTORY!!!!!!! OUTRAGE!!!!!

Yea I dunno if a lot of VP picks have referred to the top of their ticket as “Hitler”. 

same same 

[jimmyjazz 46217]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That was C-Man, you conflating ballsack

Jesus Christ.  Look at what you wrote on post #10735.  Taken at face value, it appeared that you were arguing about millions of MAGAts killing liberals.  You were apparently (tangentially) refuting an earlier @C-Man quote, but holy shit maybe be less of insufferable prick.

Ha.  Like that will ever happen.  I'm sure you're a blast at your Methodist campouts.

[Hank Kingsley 21059]

Whatever shitty things Vance said about Trump in the past doesn't matter. As some have noted already, Vance can say he was wrong and now knows the real Trump and he's awesome blah blah blah.  It's a softball question when eventually presented to him. 

[rage-a-holic 4486]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea I dunno if a lot of VP picks have referred to the top of their ticket as “Hitler”. 

same same 

"Hitler" is the new "Voodoo Economics"

[Rex Kramer 1370]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

maybe be less of insufferable prick.

[bolverk 29728]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I’m not rich and didnt go to fucking SMU. Ugh. 

I know many East Texas, Midland and Beaumont evangelicals. None of them think this way. 

Knowing people in casual polite company when you visit is not the same as growing up steeped in the local culture and knowing what is said behind closed doors or while sitting in the pews.

[Bozo_Casanova 26578]

7 minutes ago, Orale said:

His message may have been broadly about the casualness of quitting marriage. But he did specify violent marriages. Nobody put words in his mouth or is disingenuously interpreting his message. Suggesting women (or men) should stay in violent marriages for the sake of the kids strikes me as insane. 

That’s pretty clearly not what he said, and any person who would ever consider voting for Donald Trump along with many  who won’t will understand that. He’s pretty clearly saying that the sexual revolution and no-fault divorce were sold to the public on the basis of freeing people from violence and unhappiness, and while those benefits were realized they came at a cost of broadly negative social and economic consequences. 
Please don’t make me defend JD Vance. 

[Dnaguy 12101]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea I dunno if a lot of VP picks have referred to the top of their ticket as “Hitler”. 

same same 

Quote

“Well, Hitler did a lot of good things," Trump allegedly saidduring a 2018 trip to Europe to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I, the Wall Street Journal's Michael Bender writes in his book "Frankly, We Did Win This Election" and reported in The Guardian.

I’m pretty sure Trump sees this as a compliment sooooo……

[hobbes2702 13078]

4 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

"Hitler" is the new "Voodoo Economics"

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1291]

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

He absolutely did nail it. I’m wondering what the fuck he’s doing, ruining his political career like Pence. He’s unelectable as Kamala after this. And you know ‘28 will go to the Dems: modern politics has turned as shitty as a NFC East. Nobody wins that division consecutive times, because like both political parties, everyone is shitty. 

Absolute outliers. You people have lost your minds. 

There won't be an election in '28, though.

[Rex Kramer 1370]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Knowing people in casual polite company when you visit is not the same as growing up steeped in the local culture and knowing what is said behind closed doors or while sitting in the pews.

These are people I deal with every day. But they’re rich SMU types. 

[aggie08 21550]

12 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

Wait...a VP who previously made demeaning comments about the Presidential candidate that picked him for the slot?

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN US HISTORY!!!!!!! OUTRAGE!!!!!

Demeaning comments between politicians shouldn't come as a surprise.

Acknowledging the absolute truth about who Trump is and what he represents, and hitching your wagon to him anyway as a naked power grab should be cause for some concern in a sane world. 

But alas...

[HOOKEM4 5044]

29 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’m not going to defend JD Vance, but two things:

1) this is pretty clearly not what Vance is saying, the gist of which is that the the sexual revolution led to an explosion of divorce that has not been good for working families or middle class children on either a cultural or economic level. His audience will understand it.

2) second, he’s right. And I am certainly no fan of JD Vance or suggesting that people should stay in violent marriages. 
 

Affluent white progressives, who generally have the privilege of not living in economically depressed places or personally impacted by losing elections will no doubt jump all over this, and it will be wasted effort because they don’t understand the lived reality of middle class life in America. 
 

This biggest mistake Democrats have made in the last 35 years is not explicitly pushing economic policies that make single  incomes viable for middle class families. 

Did they not do this the...what...2 times they actually had control of the WH/Senate/House? Then the repubs screamed deficit (they created and dems reduced) only to have all positive momentum unraveled because people voted republican? Then we cut taxes for the very people who did not need it, ran up insane deficits, rinse repeat? It is tiresome. 

[Rex Kramer 1370]

1 minute ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

There won't be an election in '28, though.

Yes there will. At some point we will have civil war and government tyrannical overreach.  Doomers here will be very pleased to see a peaceful transition of power in Jan ‘29. Or maybe they won’t because they want to be pissed and see drama. 

[hobbes2702 13078]

4 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Yes there will. At some point we will have civil war and government tyrannical overreach.  Doomers here will be very pleased to see a peaceful transition of power in Jan ‘29. Or maybe they won’t because they want to be pissed and see drama. 

If Trump wins, why would there be a peaceful transition of power in ‘29 when there wasn’t one in 21’?

[Steamboat1874 4085]

33 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm referring to your quote, so pardon me if my low intellect somehow allowed me to conflate two different discussions (which I don't think actually happened, but whatever):

 

But do you what a plethora is ?

[David Dennison 18951]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

If Trump wins, why would there be a peaceful transition of power in ‘29 when there wasn’t one in 21’?

It may not have been all that peaceful, but there was a transition of power. Should be fun, though.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26578]

10 minutes ago, HOOKEM4 said:

Did they not do this the...what...2 times they actually had control of the WH/Senate/House? Then the repubs screamed deficit (they created and dems reduced) only to have all positive momentum unraveled because people voted republican? Then we cut taxes for the very people who did not need it, ran up insane deficits, rinse repeat? It is tiresome.

You get elected to do things for the coalition that elects you. You don’t get to do things unless and until you win elections, and if you want to keep the ground you gain, you have to keep winning. True for people who want things to get worse also. 

[aggie08 21550]

31 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

Wait...a VP who previously made demeaning comments about the Presidential candidate that picked him for the slot?

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN US HISTORY!!!!!!! OUTRAGE!!!!!

Also, imagine trying to dismiss a politician privately calling his own party the party of "low-income, low-education whites" and saying that the leader of the GOP is, at best, a useful idiot and, at worst, Hitler as normal political banter. 

Jesus fucking Christ man, have some fucking pride.

Edited July 15 by aggie08

[C-Man 27281]

26 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

That was C-Man, you conflating ballsack

What the hell did I do?

 

11 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

There won't be an election in '28, though.

Was coming here to post this myself.

 

8 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

Yes there will. At some point we will have civil war and government tyrannical overreach.  Doomers here will be very pleased to see a peaceful transition of power in Jan ‘29. Or maybe they won’t because they want to be pissed and see drama. 

So you're saying we're headed to civil war and tyrannical government overreach somewhere down the road but there will be an election in '28 and a peaceful transition of power in Jan '29? I hope you're right but ...

[HOOKEM4 5044]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

You get elected to do things for the coalition that elects you. You don’t get to do things unless and until you win elections, and if you want to keep the ground you gain, you have to keep winning. True for people who want things to get worse also. 

The issue is and always has been the message is weak. The facts don't match reality. We have been encouraged my entire life to look down and not up. Now we are looking down and at a fucking color. Once teams were solidified, it was over. You cannot have a team in life. You have to look at things objectively and admit that you may have been wrong and adjust. We lost that somewhere in the 80s and it has been downhill since then.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

I need a coconut tree to improve the context in which I live. Gonna resort to metaphysics and channel the ancestors to help guide America through this tumultuous era.  I have been drinking. 

[Chuckie Finster 22752]

In the year 2024, there will not be a single voter swayed on either side of the aisle by a VP pick. Pretending that any of this matters is annoying.

[rage-a-holic 4486]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Also, imagine trying to dismiss a politician privately calling his own party the party of "low-income, low-education whites" and saying that the leader of the GOP is, at best, a useful idiot and, at worst, Hitler as normal political banter. 

Jesus fucking Christ man, have some fucking pride.

What the fuck does "having pride" mean here? I'm not defending Trump, I'm laughing/commenting over the histrionic posts about Vance hating on Trump. VP picks talking shit about the nominee is not new. And referring to Trump as "Hitler" is pretty standard these days.

[Hank Kingsley 21059]

incredible 
 

 

Edited July 15 by Hank Kingsley

[David Dennison 18951]

I'd be shocked if J.D. Vance believes 25% of the things that come out of his mouth.

 

Edited July 15 by David Dennison

[aggie08 21550]

4 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

And referring to Trump as "Hitler" is pretty standard these days.

Usually not from Republicans.

Have some pride that Vance thinks GOP voters are basically rubes, and you're sitting here like, "Oh, that's just politics."

[Captain Obvious 524]

23 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

If Trump wins, why would there be a peaceful transition of power in ‘29 when there wasn’t one in 21’?

Maybe not "peaceful" in the sense that the Republicans immediately acknowledge reality, ala the Conservative part in the UK earlier this month, but also not another January 6th.  I would think in that sense a "peaceful" transition happens in '29.

Trump would have served his two terms, spent that last four years making sure he wouldn't be dragged into court for whatever self enriching shenanigans he pulled, and can then continue grifting his base for as long as he stays alive.  He would quickly call whoever the Republicans nominated a weak loser that couldn't maintain what he built, and wash his hands of it.  He'd also spin that into being a consultant for the Republican party for the foreseeable future at a premium price, and his base would take the bait hook, line, and sinker.

 

Edited July 15 by Captain Obvious

[rage-a-holic 4486]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Usually not from Republicans.

Have some pride that Vance thinks GOP voters are basically rubes, and you're sitting here like, "Oh, that's just politics."

Sure, I'm gonna lose sleep about a politician thinking their party is full of rubes and useful idiots, because that's strictly a Republican thing. 

[4th&Five 41599]

[Bozo_Casanova 26578]

Biden’s interview with Lester Holt is going about how you think. I’m watching so you don’t have to.