2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Dahobbs 17180]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Have we talked about this yet?

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/biden-appears-to-forget-name-of-black-man-defense-secretary-lloyd-austin-in-bet-interview/

This has to be it, right?

The video was posted. I don't agree with the description. He said "black man" as a parenthetical to emphasize a point in an interview with BET. 

[DixonHur 10837]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Correct. Dems will have to unite behind Harris now and actually focus on Trump. I have doubts that they can do it. 

[immamac 41617]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The video was posted. I don't agree with the description. He said "black man" as a parenthetical to emphasize a point in an interview with BET. 

What is black Twitter saying?

[Sawbonz 26808]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

The video was posted. I don't agree with the description. He said "black man" as a parenthetical to emphasize a point in an interview with BET. 

When people are thinking you have dementia you damn well better be able to name drop the members of your cabinet. 

[Dahobbs 17180]

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

When people are thinking you have dementia you damn well better be able to name drop the members of your cabinet. 

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying I don't think that was actually the issue in the interview. The appearance was bad, but I just don't think that was what Biden was focused on. 

[Pancho 42233]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

What is black Twitter saying?

 

 

The fam is still making trunp assassination memes so….

[troph 23995]

24 minutes ago, mdmost said:

You're living in a world where things should be a certain way. But it's not that way like the gif above says. For some reason, Trump's crimes and personality are not held against him. You just have to make peace with that reality. No one is clamoring for Trump to step down because he IS the Republican Party now. They should just rename it The Trump Party. 

And I will argue that a lot of people in here need to step out of their bubbles and see what's happening in the real world. The economy is not as great as you may think. Yes, inflation has come down but shit is still expensive. That is not Biden's fault but he'll get the blame just like any president does when people feel the economy is not good for them. Housing is out of control. Grocery prices are high. Homelessness is rampant in big cities. All of that has an effect on the middle to lower class. That's where Biden is failing. Why if things are so great are people not behind Biden? It's not just the media's fault. It's the entire messaging that Biden puts out.

you aren't wrong in your premise that I live in a world that just isn't the way I think it should be. but I think your reasons for why it is the way it is aren't entirely correct. My critique - well hatred really - goes to the inability for facts to rise to the top and win the day. I have a strong sense of right and wrong, I want justice and I want the truth to prevail.

TRUTH on the economy, I get it, the economy isn't great, it's bifurcated, good for some, bad for others. My family is heavily impacted by interest rates given my wife is a home builder, so we have a front row seat on housing issues. Homelessness from a camping in public spaces perspective was a 9th circuit court ruling until a few weeks ago, had nothing to do with Biden. Inflation was and is a bitch and once contained it will still take 2-3 years to feel okay. If Biden gets any credit, it's for helping it come down, he did not create the problem. And, we are looking like a soft landing and expansion is coming, so we are just going to hand that to Trump? The reality is the media isn't doing a @StassneyHorn touting the all time stock market highs under Biden, no they won't even touch it? Why? Positive record doesn't get ratings, we are addicted to DOOM. So, there is little chance Biden can get the traction on his record compared to Trump blasting everyone. The fact that we cannot as a citizenry evaluate Biden's record and compare to Trump's record as the paramount question in this election is just maddening to me.

the only critique I have of Biden is the same for the Democrats, they won't take the gloves off and attack Trump like they should. If positive record won't win the day then blast your opponent to smithereens. Biden started but his allies drowned him out with demands he resign from the campaign.

The other problem is we can't evaluate the alternative universe where the Dems rallied around Biden, blamed a cold and Trump's unrelenting lies for stymieing the president in the debate. I actually drafted the statement way back when it happened, it wouldn't have been hard and we would be off to the races. so what if it was a lie, lies work, just ask Trump.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Snake Diggity 4548]

32 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I'll caveat by saying 1) I agree with you competely just playign devil's advocate and b) I think our best bet is Biden/Harris still.

But the question from your post is-- is she ATL / Detroit / Philly type black? To take from the recent reports from the other VP, she seems more likely to have a kid named Vivek than Darrel, and she was a former cop which the GQP memes as a horrible thing while also purporting to be the party of "Back the Blue" so the irony is THICK

Definitely a risk.  But I think her intellectual/cop background will take a back seat to the fact that at the end of the day, she is a black woman.  I think she can reach black women in Atlanta, and that’s really all it’ll take.

[mdmost 42316]

Again though, he's the oldest candidate for President and President ever. That does carry weight with people. He barely won before and it took Covid and a complete stopdown of our economy to do that. Yes, he's done good things but the reality of his age was always there. Then a bad debate and interviews make it worse. 

[SydneyCarton 47298]

2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

The Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens wing of the Republican Party would be literally frothing at mouth about a Harris/Shapiro ticket and we all know why.

That's fucking good news for moderates. 

[hobbes2702 12516]

25 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Pass the poi mahalo

[troph 23995]

8 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Again though, he's the oldest candidate for President and President ever. That does carry weight with people. He barely won before and it took Covid and a complete stopdown of our economy to do that. Yes, he's done good things but the reality of his age was always there. Then a bad debate and interviews make it worse. 

that's half the equation. the second half is how the Party and the media reacted. Trump led an insurrection for Christ's sake and he's still in the running. The circumstance + the reaction = the result. You are correct about the circumstance but you are ignoring the reaction. The Party turbo fucked Biden in their reaction to the circumstance and the media seeking ratings and readers for profit jumped on it.

as for close elections, we won't have wide margins of victories for at least another 4-5 cycles. Biden actually did quite well against an incumbent and the second highest margin of victory since 2000.

 

Edited July 18 by troph

[bolverk 29036]

12 minutes ago, immamac said:

What is black Twitter saying?

Top 5 hottest political posts in order on r/BlackPeopleTwitter (I refuse to go to Elmo Mush's site):

 

[troph 23995]

29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Stop arguing that Biden is doing well.

He's toast man. I'm fucking livid about it. The last thing we need for this election is a brokered convention and a scramble to the end with a new candidate. but now we have no choice.

 

27 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Policy wise I thinks he's done very well. Current health and optics are shit. I still think he has the capacity to do the job, but I also think he's unelectable at this point. 

At this point he is unelectable and the fact that Trump is electable and Biden isn't has nothing to do with the underlying circumstance and has EVERYTHING to do with the disparate reactions to the circumstances.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

Biden’s biggest failure was neglecting the rising fascist movement which will destroy him and many others.  Obama made the same mistake with the tea party but him being the first Black President, I imagine, made it more politically difficult to combat with a frontal assault.  Biden had all the white privilege in the world and his administration decided to do as little as possible to stop Trump’s GQP movement.  No expanding the courts, no real push to dismantle the electoral college, appointed possibly the weakest attorney general in history, and didn’t do much to tangibly improve the lives of everyday working folks during one of the more difficult times in American history.  Yeah the stock market and the “economy” are doing great but only the rich give a shit about that stuff and only a few make a connection to politics.

There’s also a laundry list of stuff he campaigned on in 2020 that he made no real effort to even advocate for, such as a public option on healthcare. And most notably missing from Biden’s agenda was a robust anti-corruption legislation package, which would have been massively popular across the political landscape if marketed properly and highly needed. 

You can say Biden did some good things as president, and that’s true but on the whole he catastrophically missed the moment with his presidency and that’s partially why we’re in this dark place.  

[Bozo_Casanova 25822]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

The fuck does Andy Beshear bring to the ticket? I promise you 75% of America has no idea who that is.

He puts Ohio in play.

My Veep power rankings

1) Whitmer (wins Michigan, but don’t think she wants it. Could win a floor vote at the convention and Will come into 2028 as the prohibitive favorite for the presidential nom if Biden/Harris loses)

2) Bashear (puts Ohio in play, raises his profile)

3) Shapiro (wins, PA but I don’t think he wants it)

4) Coop (puts NC in play)

5) Pete (best talker)

6) Kelly (too important to lose as a senator)

[WhatTheBuck 28604]

1 hour ago, TexasHooch said:

I think it's exactly the opposite.  They'll shift to, "she's been pulling the strings all along".

She’s been doing one hell of a job. 

[Firemans4Horn 17007]

Ohio is not even close to in play. No matter who the Dems run. Joe/ C’mon Man /Biden

Edited July 18 by Firemans4Horn

[Celery Man 20568]

42 minutes ago, troph said:

the other side you have all of that (old senile man) PLUS convicted felon, rapist, child rapist, insurrectionist, etc. etc. and not a peep about him being unfit for office.

[SydneyCarton 47298]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

He's toast man. I'm fucking livid about it.

 

At this point he is unelectable and the fact that Trump is electable and Biden isn't has nothing to do with the underlying circumstance and has EVERYTHING to do with the disparate reactions to the circumstances.

So you want to keep showing up here bitching about how fucked up American society is, how stupid and amoral much of it has become, and ignoring how Biden isn't treated the same as Trump by completely different people and the media...to the people that generally agree with you. Ok. 

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

He puts Ohio in play.

My Veep power rankings

1) Whitmer (wins Michigan, but don’t think she wants it. Could win a floor vote at the convention and Will come into 2028 as the prohibitive favorite for the presidential nom if Biden/Harris loses)

2) Bashear (puts Ohio in play, raises his profile)

3) Shapiro (wins, PA but I don’t think he wants it)

4) Coop (puts NC in play)

5) Pete (best talker)

6) Kelly (too important to lose as a senator)

Why exactly does Beshear put Ohio in play? I'm not sure Jim Brown revived from the dead as a white democrat puts Ohio in play, much less a Governor of Kentucky. 

[mchookem 15535]

oh leave her alone, she's venting just like i did in a place specifically created for that

[troph 23995]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Biden’s biggest failure was neglecting the rising fascist movement which will destroy him and many others.  Obama made the same mistake with the tea party but him being the first Black President, I imagine, made it more politically difficult to combat with a frontal assault.  Biden had all the white privilege in the world and his administration decided to do as little as possible to stop Trump’s GQP movement.  No expanding the courts, no real push to dismantle the electoral college, appointed possibly the weakest attorney general in history, and didn’t do much to tangibly improve the lives of everyday working folks during one of the more difficult times in American history.  Yeah the stock market and the “economy” are doing great but only the rich give a shit about that stuff and only a few make a connection to politics.

There’s also a laundry list of stuff he campaigned on in 2020 that he made no real effort to even advocate for, such as a public option on healthcare. And most notably missing from Biden’s agenda was a robust anti-corruption legislation package, which would have been massively popular across the political landscape if marketed properly and highly needed. 

You can say Biden did some good things as president, and that’s true but on the whole he catastrophically missed the moment with his presidency and that’s partially why we’re in this dark place.  

I agree the DOJ should crack down on white nationalist extremists, that's been a growing issue since even before GWB. Not sure how much of that can be blamed on Biden.

Inflation is the only thing that really matters right now (with high employment) to everyone but the wealthiest. That shit takes time, go back to the 1970's and 1980's and see how long that shit stuck. Record speed in inflation reduction here. Not his fault, not his credit but if we are assigning blame and credit to presidents for inflation, he gets an A+ gold star. How that's even debatable is maddening.

Could he be more progressive, yes I agree.

He did not catastrophically miss though, that's a laughable position. He rebuilt a cratered Executive Branch, expanded NATO in the face of the Russian threat, had more bipartisan legislation pass than anyone in decades - despite (variation on a theme) his own party getting in the way. Still passed an historic climate bill that needs to be passed every other year but hey the first happened on his watch.

But it doesn't matter, this he's toast and it's fucking stupid.
 

[mdmost 42316]

Ohio is lost. It's about as red as Texas or Florida now.

[Chuckie Finster 22285]

15 minutes ago, troph said:

that's half the equation. the second half is how the Party and the media reacted. Trump led an insurrection for Christ's sake and he's still in the running. The circumstance + the reaction = the result. You are correct about the circumstance but you are ignoring the reaction. The Party turbo fucked Biden in their reaction to the circumstance and the media seeking ratings and readers for profit jumped on it.

as for close elections, we won't have wide margins of victories for at least another 4-5 cycles. Biden actually did quite well against an incumbent and the second highest margin of victory since 2000.

 

Look, it's fine to be frustrated with the situation, but I will not accept that millions of people collectively agreeing at the same time that this dude cannot be our President is a bad thing.

This wasn't some power grab or coup based on difference in policy.  This wasn't some long simmering feud where everyone was waiting for a moment to strike.  Biden had 100% party support prior to June 27.  This was a genuine, impromptu reaction to what was playing out before our eyes, and I do not accept that the answer is blind loyalty.

Additionally, being able to effectively and persuasively communicate is, like, THE most important skill for a President, and it's silly to blame the media for pointing out when a candidate clearly can no longer do this.

Biden has done a great job and I hate that he is in this current state.  But asking Democrats to ignore their eyes and vote for Joe no matter what, especially after 8 straight years of demonizing Republicans who do the same, is not the path to victory.  

Edited July 18 by Chuckie Finster

[Old Freak Nasty 697]

2 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Never heard of Shapiro until 2 days ago

Texans don't have any good reason to have heard of him.  The people of the blue wall know him.

[WhatTheBuck 28604]

1 hour ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

She would be well-served to keep that face buried.

[troph 23995]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

So you want to keep showing up here bitching about how fucked up American society is, how stupid and amoral much of it has become, and ignoring how Biden isn't treated the same as Trump by completely different people and the media...to the people that generally agree with you. Ok. 

 

What the fuck do you think this board is for? Yeah I'll bitch as loud and as often as I want. and actually people here don't agree with me, most are arguing the exact opposite with me. They want him to step down. I think the reaction to Biden's debate (including most here) was a devastating response that puts the election in jeopardy.

 

[Zonahorn 7921]

And there’s the answer for what is actually happening. 

[Red Five 40274]

Watching Pete tear JD Vance limb from limb in the VP debate sure would be fun. 

Dems need someone to articulate the case right now. No one can do that better than Pete. 

[troph 23995]

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Look, it's fine to be frustrated with the situation, but I will not accept that millions of people collectively agreeing at the same time that this dude cannot be our President is a bad thing.

This wasn't some power grab or coup based on difference in policy.  This wasn't some long simmering feud where everyone was waiting for a moment to strike.  Biden had 100% party support prior to June 27.  This was a genuine, impromptu reaction to what was playing out before our eyes, and I do not accept that the answer is blind loyalty.

Additionally, being able to effectively and persuasively communicate is like THE most important skill for a President, and it's silly to blame the media for pointing out when a candidate clearly can no longer do this.

Biden has done a great job and I hate that he is in this current state.  But asking Democrats to ignore their eyes and vote for Joe no matter what, especially after 8 straight years of demonizing Republicans who do the same, is not the path to victory.  

win at (almost) all costs is the goal in politics. that to me meant rally around Biden. the Republicans get it, they will do anything with their win at all costs mentality. it means we are already playing against a stacked deck.

[nbmishoid 904]

Along with average IQ, I’d guess.

[troph 23995]

1 minute ago, Zonahorn said:

And there’s the answer for what is actually happening. 

 

Citzens United to the rescue.

Fuck my life.

[Chuckie Finster 22285]

Just now, troph said:

win at (almost) all costs is the goal in politics. that to me meant rally around Biden. the Republicans get it, they will do anything with their win at all costs mentality. it means we are already playing against a stacked deck.

But that's the thing, every piece of evidence is SCREAMING that sticking with Biden is a sure loss.  The deck we are playing against is stacked, whether or not we replace Joe.

Yes, running up the middle is a more predictable path that theoretically could work, but there's a reason teams attempt a Hail Mary when they are 50 yards from the end zone on their last play.

[Pancho 42233]

If you think Ohio is in play for Dems, you probably also think A&M is going 11-1 and to the CFP. 

[bolverk 29036]

9 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Ohio is lost. It's about as red as Texas or Florida now.

It's redder than both Texas and Florida. (2020 elections results)

[DixonHur 10837]

32 minutes ago, troph said:

The reality is the media isn't doing a @StassneyHorn touting the all time stock market highs under Biden, no they won't even touch it?

Probably wouldn't matter much if they did... in America, 93% of stocks are owned by the top 10%.  The bottom 50% only account for 1% of stock ownership.

Most people are more concerned with grocery and gas prices.

[troph 23995]

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

But that's the thing, every piece of evidence is SCREAMING that sticking with Biden is a sure loss.  The deck we are playing against is stacked, whether or not we replace Joe.

Yes, running up the middle is a more predictable path that theoretically could work, but there's a reason teams attempt a Hail Mary when they are 50 yards from the end zone on their last play.

I'm not arguing the conclusion, I'm arguing the reason. There is no choice but to boot Biden to the curb.

the conclusion is BECAUSE of the response, not the circumstance. all you have to do is compare and contrast the worst circumstances of each candidate and the respective Parties' response to see WHY Biden is toast.

and now it's 100% done because Elon Musk/Peter Theil money on one side and the well drying up on the Dem side.

 

[SydneyCarton 47298]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

What the fuck do you think this board is for? Yeah I'll bitch as loud and as often as I want. and actually people here don't agree with me, most are arguing the exact opposite with me. They want him to step down. I think the reaction to Biden's debate (including most here) was a devastating response that puts the election in jeopardy.

 

No one is telling you not to bitch, you've literally just demonstrated in this post above the illogical histrionics at play in your thought process:

You think Biden's debate was devestating and put the election in jeopardy, but you're firmly believe that the Democratic response should be to rally around Biden and near him down. Do you want to ignore the forest for the tress any more? Because fundamentally Democratic Voters and the Republican Base are very, very different creatures, and yet you're pissed off that the Democratic party, which mostly represents their base, doesn't behave like stupid lunatic low IQ Trumpers. Gosh, we're sorry that the overwhelming perception among democrats is that biden should step down, and no one thinks he can win anymore, and even you think the debate was devastataing, BUT BY GAWD WITH DEMOCRACY AT STAKE LETS RALLY BEHIND THIS LOSING HAND AND PUSH IT ALL IN! 

You're upset we don't act like dumb, low IQ trump syophantic fascists and back a losing hand. It makes no sense. 

3 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Watching Pete tear JD Vance limb from limb in the VP debate sure would be fun. 

Dems need someone to articulate the case right now. No one can do that better than Pete. 

I don't think adding a gay McKenzie guy to a black woman ticket is going to help. I'd love to see it to. But America is fucking still backwards. 

[Zonahorn 7921]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

 

Citzens United to the rescue.

Fuck my life.

Follow the money, always.

[Red Five 40274]

Katy Tur and her cleavage quoting someone close to Biden as saying "We're nearing the end". Hopefully they mean his campaign. 

[Old Freak Nasty 697]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

The only way to do this is for Kamala to kill and eat Joe live on the air. Leave no doubt. Put the fear of kamamala in our foreign adversaries. Assert dominance. 

Is that an official act?

[gmr548 16289]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Wut?  I'd never heard of him until a few pages ago, and I doubt I'm in the minority.

Also, for those saying Beshear couldn't carry KY, he has a 65% approval rating.

Poll: Beshear most popular Democrat governor again - Lane Report | Kentucky Business & Economic News

The right wing media appluads your ability to quote completely out of context. What I said was, "Shaprio has high name recognition and approval in a must-have state for Democrats."

Do you live in PA?

22 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

He puts Ohio in play.

My Veep power rankings

1) Whitmer (wins Michigan, but don’t think she wants it. Could win a floor vote at the convention and Will come into 2028 as the prohibitive favorite for the presidential nom if Biden/Harris loses)

2) Bashear (puts Ohio in play, raises his profile)

3) Shapiro (wins, PA but I don’t think he wants it)

4) Coop (puts NC in play)

5) Pete (best talker)

6) Kelly (too important to lose as a senator)

Uh, gonna need to show your work on a VP moving a state 10 points lol

[Dahobbs 17180]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You're upset we don't act like dumb, low IQ trump syophantic fascists and back a losing hand. It makes no sense. 

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

Edited July 18 by Dahobbs

[Pancho 42233]

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

[Chad Fuck 17301]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

The one thing I'm very disappointed with Joe for is he told us he was only going to serve one term.  Then he changed his mind.  That effectively robbed the Dem party of a legitimate primary to get younger blood on the ballot.  

But that's spilled milk now.

[StassneyHorn 6429]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Probably wouldn't matter much if they did... in America, 93% of stocks are owned by the top 10%.  The bottom 50% only account for 1% of stock ownership.

Most people are more concerned with grocery and gas prices.

data shows that the majority of Americans contribute to a retirement plan (70%), though contributions vary by generation: Only 47% of Gen Zers say they save in a retirement plan, such as a 401(k) or 403 (b), compared to 75% of Millennials and 76% of Gen Xers.

https://www.empower.com/the-currency/life/average-401k-balance-age#:~:text=Empower data shows that the,and 76% of Gen Xers.

 

[Js1 82949]

Just now, gmr548 said:

Uh, gonna need to show your work on a VP moving a state 10 points lol

Yeah, Beshear does not put Ohio (or Kentucky, lulz) into play.  Not even if he had a 99% approval rating.  Does he have some cred for speaking to WWC voters?  Oh yeah, no one would mistake Kentucky for California and he won it twice. 

Shapiro won PA easily.  Dude would lock up the most pivotal state for the Dems. 

[Dahobbs 17180]

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

Eek. Should have united by Joe is what that should have said. 

[Zonahorn 7921]

Biden still isn’t willing to drop out

[Red Five 40274]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

I'm not sure how you can say, right now, that Biden gives the dems the best chance to win. It seems like reality is the exact opposite of that, fair or not.