2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[mdmost 43060]

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

[Dahobbs 17704]

Just now, mdmost said:

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

While I hate the idea of him leaving as President (because I think he has been great), I do find this argument fairly compelling. 

[SydneyCarton 48222]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

2 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

data shows that the majority of Americans contribute to a retirement plan (70%), though contributions vary by generation: Only 47% of Gen Zers say they save in a retirement plan, such as a 401(k) or 403 (b), compared to 75% of Millennials and 76% of Gen Xers.

https://www.empower.com/the-currency/life/average-401k-balance-age#:~:text=Empower data shows that the,and 76% of Gen Xers.

 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

[Zonahorn 8079]

2 minutes ago, Zonahorn said:

Biden still isn’t willing to drop out

Pushback from Biden world

[Chuckie Finster 22758]

1 minute ago, Zonahorn said:

Biden still isn’t willing to drop out

That.... is not what happened at all in 2015?

[Goofyboy 3300]

Hang tight - if Biden resigns, Harris moves up - who controls the Senate?

[Js1 85638]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

That.... is not what happened at all in 2015?

No it's not.  Wtf.

[SydneyCarton 48222]

1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

That.... is not what happened at all in 2015?

Yeah, that is a blatant fucking lie. Biden decided he wasn't running for President becuase he was grieving his dead fucking son. What a hatchet job. 

[StassneyHorn 6657]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

It’s not. It’s pretty standard even for small companies now.

[DixonHur 11396]

8 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The right wing media appluads your ability to quote completely out of context. What I said was, "Shaprio has high name recognition and approval in a must-have state for Democrats."

Do you live in PA?

Lol.  Oh, so you were saying the Governor of Pennsylvania has "high name recognition" in...checks notes...Pennsylvania?

And no... I was born in PA and still have a lot family there, but I live in Austin.

[Aqua Buddha 14625]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

I agree with this.  Burn the ships as there is no going back.

Harris becomes president immediately.  She appoints Cooper as VP since he's a solid candidate and he's not doing anything away.  He'd get confirmed in the Senate and then let Moses Mike tell us why the House can't vote on him.

' 

[Dahobbs 17704]

4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

[mdmost 43060]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

Bro, I didn't need anyone telling me to panic when I saw that debate. I was already worried and that made it worse. 

[tx 3 putt 77620]

[SydneyCarton 48222]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

The democratic party is dysfunctional, but I'm sorry. That's not it. Everyone I know who is a hardcore democrat is still wincing about the debate. They're lamenting things, all the while, like every single other person in this thead, still going to vote for D ticket no matter fucking what. 

You're alll fucking acting like it's the democratic party and democratic voters but it's the fucking undecided and independants who fucking matter here, and you're absolutely fucking ignoring them in this situation. 

[jimmyjazz 46303]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Was it good for Ragey?

I mean, my wife gets a little hot-tempered . . . often . . . but I wouldn't call her ragey in public.

[Chuckie Finster 22758]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

I've said this before....  Go reread the Debate thread on here from that night.  Same with twitter posts from that evening.  Blaming the reaction on media/leadership is a blatant falsehood.

[troph 24915]

24 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

 

Most people are more concerned with blaming someone for inflation he didn't cause grocery and gas prices all the while inflation has been decreasing at a rapid rate.

fify

[mdmost 43060]

Yes but as I said before the president gets blamed for the economy even if they don't have a direct influence on it. You are trying to argue against human nature, which is to blame people at the top for things. 

Edited July 18 by mdmost

[Bozo_Casanova 26582]

42 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why exactly does Beshear put Ohio in play? I'm not sure Jim Brown revived from the dead as a white democrat puts Ohio in play, much less a Governor of Kentucky. 

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

40 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Ohio is lost. It's about as red as Texas or Florida now.

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a statewide incumbent on the ballot in this cycle with a lead (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

Edited July 18 by Bozo_Casanova

[wildcat09 29443]

From the Times yesterday:

Quote

For ultrarich Democrats, this is the golden age of political scheming.

The last three weeks since President Biden wilted during the first presidential debate have uncorked a nervous energy that has stirred almost every major Democratic donor and their advisers, turning billionaires ensconced on summer vacations into crafty political animals.

They’re calling every major politician they know, encouraging them to call for Mr. Biden’s removal. They’re dangling money to members of Congress who say the right things, and withholding money from those who do not. And even the most reclusive donors are talking to reporters, sometimes on the record, about the turmoil within the party establishment.

These are chaotic times. So many ideas are bouncing around the donor class that some card-carrying members say privately that they are having trouble keeping track of all the plots. Some of the wealthiest people in the world have been locked in a perpetual, almost academic examination of how much leverage they truly have to change Mr. Biden’s mind.

Would it be best to funnel money toward a super PAC, which has raised $2 million so far, that plans to back vulnerable Democratic members of Congress who are calling for Mr. Biden’s removal? Or maybe the savvier move would be to raise money loudly for Vice President Kamala Harris, his heir apparent, as an affirmative sign that the president need not worry about passing the reins? What about setting aside some money in an escrow account that would be spent only on a Democratic presidential campaign led by someone other than Mr. Biden?

Tom Strickler, a founder of the Hollywood talent agency WME, said he had recently met in Los Angeles with Senator Martin Heinrich, Democrat of New Mexico.

“If you don’t publicly call for Biden to step aside,” Mr. Strickler said he told Mr. Heinrich’s team on Thursday morning, “you are not getting a dime from me.”

Mr. Strickler said that he had also been planning to give the maximum legal amount in August to each of the seven most vulnerable Democratic Senate candidates, but that as of now, he would not be supporting them because they have not broken with Mr. Biden.

“It’s a message that I’ve encouraged my friends to send as well,” he said. “If you back Biden, you will lose our support. Over and out.”

Or, perhaps, there is no leverage to be had at all.

The Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court in 2010 threatened to unleash torrents of cash into American politics that critics worried would hand too much influence to a small group of partisan billionaires. But ever since Donald J. Trump ran for president in 2016, major business-friendly Republican donors have learned the limits of their powers — unable to dislodge him from the party’s nomination that year, nor able to do so eight years later.

Now, Democratic megadonors are learning some of the same lessons, especially during a time when Mr. Biden has shown some ability to raise significant money from small-dollar givers.

For all their riches and ambitions, many Democratic contributors and their big-money advisers have become resigned to the notion that their influence is fairly limited, and are trying not to be naïve. A sense of powerlessness pervades.

After all, Mr. Biden is not, as one major Democratic donor put it, subject to a vote by the wealthy. And he and his team have bristled against wealthy “elites” who are trying to force him out of a Democratic nomination that he won democratically, heightening concerns from major donors who are already nervous about their efforts backfiring if they are seen as bullies.

Mr. Biden is likely to be influenced first and foremost by his family, including Jill Biden, the first lady, and after that by a series of aides who have worked for him for decades. Major donors have debated among themselves about who precisely in his inner circle could be reached — and which donors have the best access to those people. But privately, few Democratic donors are bullish about their own powers, especially given Mr. Biden’s increasingly anti-elite language.

Joe Ravitch, a top Hollywood banker and a longtime Democratic fund-raiser, said that even before the debate, he had conditioned his giving on pushing for a change at the top of the ticket. But he sounded dour about whether his advocacy would accomplish much.

“I can’t figure out who — if anyone — has influence over this, but donors certainly don’t, regardless of what we do,” Mr. Ravitch said. “And to speak out publicly against the president only helps undermine him. It’s a Catch-22.”

Mr. Biden has had relatively few defenders among the country’s biggest donors. Democratic insiders say that most major donors want him to step aside.

But there are a few exceptions. Reid Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn, has been the most voluble supporter of staying the course. Alex Soros, the head of one of the Democratic Party’s most generous families, has urged the party not to abandon Mr. Biden. And Amy Goldman Fowler, a low-profile but major donor who gives millions of dollars a year to the Democratic Party, came out with a rare on-the-record statement praising the president.

Despite all of that agitation, plenty of Democratic donors are plainly nervous to cross Mr. Biden publicly, even now, with some worried about weakening him in the general election if he remains the nominee.

Some mega-contributors are staying as quiet as possible. Henry Laufer, one of the party’s biggest contributors, told The New York Times a week after the debate that “I have no comments.” A spokeswoman for another Democratic billionaire, Marilyn Simons, also one of the party’s top donors, shared that Ms. Simons had “no comments to offer.”

Haim Saban, the Hollywood magnate who has spent tens of millions of dollars for the Democratic Party since Citizens United, was asked for his view of the situation, and spoke for many of his peers.

“Silence is golden,” he replied simply.

This is very clearly a literal Dem elite conspiracy that at least to a significant degree isn't even a response to the debate, but to Biden's too-progressive (in their eyes) domestic policies and their lack of access to and control over the White House. The debate was just the perfect excuse for many of these guys.  But the problem is that Biden really can't rebut the narrative that has taken on a life of its own. Sometimes he's energetic, but he'll stumble, and sometimes it's really bad like in that BET interview. And this is still THE story even during the RNC right after someone took a shot at Trump, so it's pretty clear that the NYTimes and other corporate media won't end up moving on to something else, but will keep fucking this chicken right up to the election.  There's an alternate timeline where Biden is still like a 25% better communicator than he is now where he could probably run against the party elites and the media on this and even turn it into a positive issue for him, but that's not the Biden we have.

I don't even know that it actually improves our chances, but I think at this point it would be best for Biden to step aside for Harris.  The media will absolutely try to ratfuck her too, but at least she might be able to counter whatever they're going to hit her on. But she'll need to run as the inheritor of Biden's more progressive policies and somehow rebuke the donors for trying to take over the entire party.  Because if she begins showing signs of moderating to please the donors after they sabotaged Biden in a hissy fit that he wasn't treating them like special boys, the party will tear itself apart. 

[SydneyCarton 48222]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a viable statewide candidate on the ballot in this cycle (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

The same Teamsters who's president just showing up to speak at the RNC? Seems....tenuous at best. 

Maybe you want to make a case that Florida isn't terminally Red, but Texas? It's been gerrymandered to shit and been run at EVERY LEVEL exclusively by Repuplibcans for...30 years now? 

It's hard to look at any of those states mentioend, and watching the trends, and thinking it's not terminal under current conditions. Eother way, I don't think you ignore a must have swing state like PA, for turning another state Soft Lean, a state which most people have already written off. 

Edited July 18 by SydneyCarton

[Sawbonz 27670]

15 minutes ago, Zonahorn said:

Pushback from Biden world

The first one is bullshit. The DNC was facing bankruptcy and the Clintons bought their debt 

[troph 24915]

24 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

BINGO.

Dems will never learn. purity politics, eat your own, play by rules of decorum the other side won't to your disadvantage, the list goes on and on.

and in an election where all the "lib" and former "pub" dudes here agree democracy itself is on the ballot, I'm full of histrionics. I love this board.

[Aqua Buddha 14625]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a statewide incumbent on the ballot in this cycle with a lead (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

I agree with all that but I just don't think Ohio is even close at this point to being purple.  It's red, especially now with Racist Care Bear as VP.

NC is a better shot.

[troph 24915]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yes but as I said before the president gets blamed for the economy even if they don't have a direct influence on it. You are trying to argue against human nature, which is to blame people at the top for things. 

I told you it's maddening, not that it's untrue. yes I was venting.

[Bozo_Casanova 26582]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

1.) The same Teamsters who's president just showing up to speak at the RNC? Seems....tenuous at best. 

The one who gave an anti-big business speech to a room full of confused Republicans and is now dealing with massive blowback in his union? I’m not concerned about that at all.

Are you saying members of the Teamsters Union won’t pull the lever for Sherrod Brown?

[Zonahorn 8079]

6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The first one is bullshit. The DNC was facing bankruptcy and the Clintons bought their debt 

Well, the first one is definitely from somebody in the Biden camp. Wouldn’t surprise me if the wealthy donors pushed for Hillary, she was very close with them. And Biden would still have been more focused on his family at the time.

 

Edited July 18 by Zonahorn

[troph 24915]

29 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

The quintessential set of circumstances your dad would respond to with "you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it."

HOLY FUCK what a mess we've made of what could have instead simply been called a bad debate performance.

 

[SydneyCarton 48222]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

The one who gave an anti-big business speech to a room full of confused Republicans and is now dealing with massive blowback in his union? I’m not concerned about that at all.

Are you saying members of the Teamsters Union won’t pull the lever for Sherrod Brown?

I haven't followed any of the blowback he's received, so I'm admittedly ignorant there. But he showed up in the firts place. Get back to me when he's fired. 

Are you saying OH is a more important state than PA?

[Red Five 40963]

Age was an issue with Biden eight years ago as well, IIRC. He was 74 at the time and was thought to be too old.

[Nicole44 22079]

I get why everyone is upset. when I am upset I want someone to be mad at and blame. Replace upset with livid, anxious, angry whatever you want. 
 

Had Joe passed the torch and not run again we aren’t facing the very real possibility of Trump winning again. The Dem leaders with this trickle down drip drip drip of defections to get Biden to step aside also helped to drastically dry up the money well. If he does step aside (I can’t see him stepping down as well) the real issue is the money injection from donors. 
 

this sucks. 

[troph 24915]

31 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, Beshear does not put Ohio (or Kentucky, lulz) into play.  Not even if he had a 99% approval rating.  Does he have some cred for speaking to WWC voters?  Oh yeah, no one would mistake Kentucky for California and he won it twice. 

Shapiro won PA easily.  Dude would lock up the most pivotal state for the Dems. 

I refuse to get into these discussions much until it's done, done but Shapiro has to be it.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26582]

7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

agree with all that but I just don't think Ohio is even close at this point to being purple.  It's red, especially now with Racist Care Bear as VP

Except for their sitting US senator who is a 1960’s style union liberal. Tim Ryan (who I like) lost to Vance because he sprinted to the middle and tried to appeal to everyone.  Brown wins because he knows who his voters are (and aren’t.) and if Texas Democrats weren’t such fucking losers they would do the same thing.

Edited July 18 by Bozo_Casanova

[Bateshorn 9942]

My wife has been on two progressive calls this morning. Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26582]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I haven't followed any of the blowback he's received, so I'm admittedly ignorant there. But he showed up in the firts place. Get back to me when he's fired. 

Are you saying OH is a more important state than PA?

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

[Foosters 17889]

2 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House. 

oh man, what'd Joe do now?

[TexEx15 17574]

Remember when being weird could kill a campaign…

[troph 24915]

45 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

No one is telling you not to bitch, you've literally just demonstrated in this post above the illogical histrionics at play in your thought process:

You think Biden's debate was devestating and put the election in jeopardy, but you're firmly believe that the Democratic response should be to rally around Biden and near him down. Do you want to ignore the forest for the tress any more? Because fundamentally Democratic Voters and the Republican Base are very, very different creatures, and yet you're pissed off that the Democratic party, which mostly represents their base, doesn't behave like stupid lunatic low IQ Trumpers. Gosh, we're sorry that the overwhelming perception among democrats is that biden should step down, and no one thinks he can win anymore, and even you think the debate was devastataing, BUT BY GAWD WITH DEMOCRACY AT STAKE LETS RALLY BEHIND THIS LOSING HAND AND PUSH IT ALL IN! 

You're upset we don't act like dumb, low IQ trump syophantic fascists and back a losing hand. It makes no sense. 

I don't think adding a gay McKenzie guy to a black woman ticket is going to help. I'd love to see it to. But America is fucking still backwards. 

reading is FUNdamental. I said the response to his debate performance was devastating, not his debate performance. I think debates are borderline meaningless. I think the explanation to his debate performance is easy, I wrote what the next day response should have been on this thread. so stop with the misogynistic insults re histrionics on a board full of ledge jumping sky is falling dudes and try understanding what I wrote instead.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Bateshorn 9942]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

This. It’s the reverse of Minnesota or New Mexico being in play. If that’s true, Trump will sweep the Midwest and SW

Edited July 18 by Bateshorn

[ChiTownDoc 21175]

45 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Probably wouldn't matter much if they did... in America, 93% of stocks are owned by the top 10%.  The bottom 50% only account for 1% of stock ownership.

Most people are more concerned with grocery and gas prices.

Yeah and all those stock owners know that as great as Biden has been, Trump would likely be even better.  They didn’t get all that money by caring about the little guy.  We so fucked.  

[SydneyCarton 48222]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

IF Ohio is in play, which it might move to Soft R Lean if you make Andy Beshear the VP pick becuase he's somehow popular in a City and State where he isn't Governor because of reasons/Sherrod Brown doesn't seem to be as slam dunk the move as "Lets just make sure we lock up PA."

[DixonHur 11396]

21 minutes ago, troph said:

fify

Totally agree.  Not saying it's right to blame Biden for inflation.  Just pointing out that reporting on stock market gains only moves the needle for about 10% of the country.

[Aqua Buddha 14625]

7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

My wife has been on two progressive calls this morning. Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House. 

Go on...

[Ghost of LL 15545]

2 hours ago, troph said:

I fucking ragey right now.

Everything I think is wrong with the world is on display right now.

1. FUCK THE MEDIA. Biden is old, okay. So is Trump. The fucking media is all over Biden. Until that Guardian clip above you had to rely on viral media to find Trump gaffs which are more plenty than Biden's and have been going on longer than Biden.

2. FUCK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Stop eating your own. The drumbeat by purists inside the party created this. Republicans are rallied around a rapist, convicted felon, pathological liar, insurrectionist, senile old man and NO ONE is beating that drum loud enough. Biden has a near undefeated record in politics, his instincts and that of his team are the best in the business. He hasn't even really started campaigning and the party trashes him, for what? See point 5 below.

3. FUCK THE DEMOCRATS AND MEDIA FOR LEGITIMIZING TRUMP. He's a sham candidate, a farce, a fucking convicted felon. Why on EARTH did you agree to debate that piece of shit? Every time Trump gets coverage, he gains legitimacy. Every time folks play by the old rules and he breaks them, he gets legitimacy because he's associated by proximity to the institution - in this case the institution of a presidential debate. He gets on stage and vomits lies and yet we play by the standard debate rules with "impartiality" - fuck that nonsense. He needs to be sidelined.

4. BIDEN STEPS DOWN WITH THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ADMINISTRATION IN MY LIFETIME. Holy shit. If he can only operate 9am - 4pm, so fucking what? His administration is light years better than any POTUS Administration in my life time and second isn't even close. Yet here we are, he's being forced to step down. NO ONE is beating the drum about his record, it's PHENOMENAL. It's EXACTLY what we need for 4 more years.

5. LOVE HARRIS, BUT ... Kamala is a fan favorite at our house, no doubt. My wife has a crush on her bigly and we would be thrilled to see her as POTUS. This is not personal. But we both have grave concerns that this country will not elect a woman and certainly not a Black woman, and women will likely be her downfall. Women, minority groups, we all eat our own, it's not even a secret. I also think she is a wildcard as a candidate generally and I think there is no way she can be as effective as Joe Biden in the white house. Even if elected, her Admin will be stymied. We are taking a risk on electability but we are guaranteeing a downgrade in leadership at this point and that's not a knock on her leadership potential, it's a recognition that Biden is THAT GOOD. I only hope and pray she keeps the entire administration and they all agree to stay. I'm quite concerned about Ukraine.

6. PREEMPTIVELY, I STILL HATE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE MEDIA. Kamala isn't going to have a cake walk. I predict the media will come at her and I fully expect the Democrats to be mealy mouthed shit for brains competitors and still refuse to hammer the fuck out of Trump. TAKE THE FUCKING GLOVES OFF and tell the American electorate - the choice is democracy or a child rapist, convicted felon, insurrectionist, Project 2025 dehumanize all non-Christians, women, LBGTQ folks, etc. thug - Americans it's time to save your country from the Handmaid's Tale.

I fucking hate this shit. HATE IT.

 

Your rage is entirely misplaced.

You're raging at the media and at the Democratic Party.  You should be raging at Biden and his advisors.

Biden's advisors have seen him decline over the past however-many years.  Yet they lied to us and said everything was fine.  Worse--they accused anybody who raised any questions about Biden's mental acuity of "ageism.  And then, as if their dishonesty wasn't enough, they put Joe Biden up on that debate stage--an act of political malpractice that is, I think, without parallel in modern American politics.

Joe Biden has had the most successful administration in my lifetime.  You and I agree on that front.  But Joe Biden's second term would not be successful, because Joe Biden is barely mentally capable of being president today; there's no way he'll be mentally fit to be president in a year or two, much less four.  And absolutely everybody sees that.  And as a result, there's no point in speculating about the success of a second term, because there is no fucking way in hell that Joe Biden is going to win a second term.

And the reason for this isn't the media.  And it isn't the Democratic Party.  It's the voters, who overwhelmingly say that Biden is not mentally fit to be president.  And you can rage all day at the voters, but in the end, Principal Skinner--it is you whom is out of touch, not the children.

1 hour ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Biden and his inner circle did this. He has lost his fastball and they kept it under wraps for over a year. The first 30 seconds of the debate were shocking. He looked like a corpse, moved like a corpse, and spoke with a whisper. 

I cannot stress this enough.  The reason we are where we are is not because of the Democratic Party.  It's not because of the media.  And it's damned sure not because of the voters who saw a fragile old man on that debate stage who looked confused, feeble, and unable to articulate a coherent thought and decided that he should not be president.

We are where we are entirely because Biden's inner circle thought they could cover up his mental decline through a fucking presidential campaign and skate through because his opponent is just noxious enough that it might not matter that their candidate couldn't effectively campaign.

We could have been having this conversation a year ago.  We should have been having this conversation a year ago.  The reason we didn't is entirely because of Biden's inner circle.

35 minutes ago, troph said:

win at (almost) all costs is the goal in politics. that to me meant rally around Biden. the Republicans get it, they will do anything with their win at all costs mentality. it means we are already playing against a stacked deck.

You know I love you, but you're dreadfully wrong.

You and I would vote for Biden if he were in a fucking permanent vegetative state.  But the problem is that we're not in the majority.  If we rallied around Biden after that debate performance, Biden would still lose.  But worse than that, the Senate and House candidates who rallied around him would lose credibility.  They would be justifiably accused of putting party ahead of country.  And they would lose.  We would lose the House.  We would lose the Senate.  We would lose hundreds of state legislative seats.  The Democratic Party would face an electoral catastrophe if we followed the rally-around-Biden strategy you suggest.

 

 

And by the way--I have a very strong suspicion that a lot of this is driven by Hunter and his hope that his dad would issue a pardon in his second term.  I very much think that if Hunter weren't in there pleading for Joe to stay in the race, that Joe would've stood down two weeks ago.

[SydneyCarton 48222]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

reading is FUNdamental. I said the response to his debate performance was devastating, not his debate performance. I think debates are borderline meaningless. I think the explanation to his debate performance is easy, I wrote what the next day response should have been on this thread. so stop with the misogynistic insults re histrionics on a board full of ledge jumping sky is falling dudes and try understanding what I wrote instead.

No, the debate was devastating. The resposne was worse. But I'm sorry, if it isn't apparrent, the democratic machine doesn't own the reporting of MSNB, ABC, NBC, and every other outlet the fucking way Fox News does for their followers. So you're lamenting an impossible response to a reality that doesn't fucking exist except in your head. You want to sit here and lament the world we live in, sure, I'm right there with ready to crack open a beer. But you might as well be shaking your fists at clouds.

I use histrionics all the fucking time, it's a great word, so you can take your accusation of misogyny and shove it right up your fucking ass. 

[DixonHur 11396]

45 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

Is this him?

[Todd Gack 432]

7 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Remember when being weird could kill a campaign…

I for one am shocked that hulk hogan is a racist piece of shit.

[chainsaw 9879]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

My wife has been on two progressive calls this morning. Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House. 

Big cigar?

[Dutchrudder 11155]

31 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I agree with this.  Burn the ships as there is no going back.

Harris becomes president immediately.  She appoints Cooper as VP since he's a solid candidate and he's not doing anything away.  He'd get confirmed in the Senate and then let Moses Mike tell us why the House can't vote on him.

' 

Well I don't know if Bob Menendez will be able to vote on that, and given Sienema and Manchins past actions, they could hold up a nomination. The Rs might be able to seize on the vacancy and find some way to use it to their advantage, or simply keep the new VP from becoming VP during the campaign. The potential chaos might not be the best option here.