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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

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Just now, mdmost said:

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

While I hate the idea of him leaving as President (because I think he has been great), I do find this argument fairly compelling. 

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4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

2 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

data shows that the majority of Americans contribute to a retirement plan (70%), though contributions vary by generation: Only 47% of Gen Zers say they save in a retirement plan, such as a 401(k) or 403 (b), compared to 75% of Millennials and 76% of Gen Xers.


https://www.empower.com/the-currency/life/average-401k-balance-age#:~:text=Empower data shows that the,and 76% of Gen Xers.

 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

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1 minute ago, Chuckie Finster said:

That.... is not what happened at all in 2015?

Yeah, that is a blatant fucking lie. Biden decided he wasn't running for President becuase he was grieving his dead fucking son. What a hatchet job. 

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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

It’s not. It’s pretty standard even for small companies now.

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8 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The right wing media appluads your ability to quote completely out of context. What I said was, "Shaprio has high name recognition and approval in a must-have state for Democrats."

Do you live in PA?

Lol.  Oh, so you were saying the Governor of Pennsylvania has "high name recognition" in...checks notes...Pennsylvania?

kristen-wiig-no-waih.gif

And no... I was born in PA and still have a lot family there, but I live in Austin.

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4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Agreed. As I've said before you also break the glass ceiling on a female being president. You give her direct experience in the job, albeit short experience. Her running mate is VP and if the Republicans stand in the way, they will once again be standing in the way of the peaceful transition of power. This time they screw with the succession to be president at a time when one candidate almost had half his brain taken off. 

I agree with this.  Burn the ships as there is no going back.

Harris becomes president immediately.  She appoints Cooper as VP since he's a solid candidate and he's not doing anything away.  He'd get confirmed in the Senate and then let Moses Mike tell us why the House can't vote on him.

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4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The GOP is behaving that way becuase they have 8 years of evidence proving that behaving that way works for their voters. Behaving that way doesn't work for Joe Biden. The media aparatus tears down Biden, and they won't tear down trump. You think keeping Biden in play has straight and flush draws, but it doesn't. That's your fantastyland. But you're asking people to believe it and bet into it. That doesn't work on the voters you're attempting to sway. Period.

Need more proof? Look at polling of democrats who think biden should drop out. Look at media coverage. Look at donations drying up. Look at top Democratic officials including obama telling him it's over. You can lament that this is the way it works, this is the way society in America has devolved into, fine, I lament all those fucking things too. But don't ask me to ostrich my head in the sand and pretend all is well. It's not. 

I can only speak to myself, but I didn't have much access to 401k plans in my early jobs after college. I only got those as I moved forward in my career. I'm sure it's even worse for Gen Zers. 

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

Bro, I didn't need anyone telling me to panic when I saw that debate. I was already worried and that made it worse. 

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

The democratic party is dysfunctional, but I'm sorry. That's not it. Everyone I know who is a hardcore democrat is still wincing about the debate. They're lamenting things, all the while, like every single other person in this thead, still going to vote for D ticket no matter fucking what. 

You're alll fucking acting like it's the democratic party and democratic voters but it's the fucking undecided and independants who fucking matter here, and you're absolutely fucking ignoring them in this situation. 

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1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

It doesn't work for dem voters because dem leaders and donors tell them to panic. It's a chicken and egg situation, we just disagree about which came first. 

I've said this before....  Go reread the Debate thread on here from that night.  Same with twitter posts from that evening.  Blaming the reaction on media/leadership is a blatant falsehood.

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24 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

 

Most people are more concerned with blaming someone for inflation he didn't cause grocery and gas prices all the while inflation has been decreasing at a rapid rate.

fify

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Yes but as I said before the president gets blamed for the economy even if they don't have a direct influence on it. You are trying to argue against human nature, which is to blame people at the top for things. 

Edited by mdmost
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42 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why exactly does Beshear put Ohio in play? I'm not sure Jim Brown revived from the dead as a white democrat puts Ohio in play, much less a Governor of Kentucky. 

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

40 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Ohio is lost. It's about as red as Texas or Florida now.

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a statewide incumbent on the ballot in this cycle with a lead (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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From the Times yesterday:

Quote

For ultrarich Democrats, this is the golden age of political scheming.

The last three weeks since President Biden wilted during the first presidential debate have uncorked a nervous energy that has stirred almost every major Democratic donor and their advisers, turning billionaires ensconced on summer vacations into crafty political animals.

They’re calling every major politician they know, encouraging them to call for Mr. Biden’s removal. They’re dangling money to members of Congress who say the right things, and withholding money from those who do not. And even the most reclusive donors are talking to reporters, sometimes on the record, about the turmoil within the party establishment.

These are chaotic times. So many ideas are bouncing around the donor class that some card-carrying members say privately that they are having trouble keeping track of all the plots. Some of the wealthiest people in the world have been locked in a perpetual, almost academic examination of how much leverage they truly have to change Mr. Biden’s mind.

Would it be best to funnel money toward a super PAC, which has raised $2 million so far, that plans to back vulnerable Democratic members of Congress who are calling for Mr. Biden’s removal? Or maybe the savvier move would be to raise money loudly for Vice President Kamala Harris, his heir apparent, as an affirmative sign that the president need not worry about passing the reins? What about setting aside some money in an escrow account that would be spent only on a Democratic presidential campaign led by someone other than Mr. Biden?

Tom Strickler, a founder of the Hollywood talent agency WME, said he had recently met in Los Angeles with Senator Martin Heinrich, Democrat of New Mexico.

“If you don’t publicly call for Biden to step aside,” Mr. Strickler said he told Mr. Heinrich’s team on Thursday morning, “you are not getting a dime from me.”

Mr. Strickler said that he had also been planning to give the maximum legal amount in August to each of the seven most vulnerable Democratic Senate candidates, but that as of now, he would not be supporting them because they have not broken with Mr. Biden.

“It’s a message that I’ve encouraged my friends to send as well,” he said. “If you back Biden, you will lose our support. Over and out.”

Or, perhaps, there is no leverage to be had at all.

The Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court in 2010 threatened to unleash torrents of cash into American politics that critics worried would hand too much influence to a small group of partisan billionaires. But ever since Donald J. Trump ran for president in 2016, major business-friendly Republican donors have learned the limits of their powers — unable to dislodge him from the party’s nomination that year, nor able to do so eight years later.

Now, Democratic megadonors are learning some of the same lessons, especially during a time when Mr. Biden has shown some ability to raise significant money from small-dollar givers.

For all their riches and ambitions, many Democratic contributors and their big-money advisers have become resigned to the notion that their influence is fairly limited, and are trying not to be naïve. A sense of powerlessness pervades.

After all, Mr. Biden is not, as one major Democratic donor put it, subject to a vote by the wealthy. And he and his team have bristled against wealthy “elites” who are trying to force him out of a Democratic nomination that he won democratically, heightening concerns from major donors who are already nervous about their efforts backfiring if they are seen as bullies.

Mr. Biden is likely to be influenced first and foremost by his family, including Jill Biden, the first lady, and after that by a series of aides who have worked for him for decades. Major donors have debated among themselves about who precisely in his inner circle could be reached — and which donors have the best access to those people. But privately, few Democratic donors are bullish about their own powers, especially given Mr. Biden’s increasingly anti-elite language.

Joe Ravitch, a top Hollywood banker and a longtime Democratic fund-raiser, said that even before the debate, he had conditioned his giving on pushing for a change at the top of the ticket. But he sounded dour about whether his advocacy would accomplish much.

“I can’t figure out who — if anyone — has influence over this, but donors certainly don’t, regardless of what we do,” Mr. Ravitch said. “And to speak out publicly against the president only helps undermine him. It’s a Catch-22.”

Mr. Biden has had relatively few defenders among the country’s biggest donors. Democratic insiders say that most major donors want him to step aside.

But there are a few exceptions. Reid Hoffman, the co-founder of LinkedIn, has been the most voluble supporter of staying the course. Alex Soros, the head of one of the Democratic Party’s most generous families, has urged the party not to abandon Mr. Biden. And Amy Goldman Fowler, a low-profile but major donor who gives millions of dollars a year to the Democratic Party, came out with a rare on-the-record statement praising the president.

Despite all of that agitation, plenty of Democratic donors are plainly nervous to cross Mr. Biden publicly, even now, with some worried about weakening him in the general election if he remains the nominee.

Some mega-contributors are staying as quiet as possible. Henry Laufer, one of the party’s biggest contributors, told The New York Times a week after the debate that “I have no comments.” A spokeswoman for another Democratic billionaire, Marilyn Simons, also one of the party’s top donors, shared that Ms. Simons had “no comments to offer.”

Haim Saban, the Hollywood magnate who has spent tens of millions of dollars for the Democratic Party since Citizens United, was asked for his view of the situation, and spoke for many of his peers.

“Silence is golden,” he replied simply.

This is very clearly a literal Dem elite conspiracy that at least to a significant degree isn't even a response to the debate, but to Biden's too-progressive (in their eyes) domestic policies and their lack of access to and control over the White House. The debate was just the perfect excuse for many of these guys.  But the problem is that Biden really can't rebut the narrative that has taken on a life of its own. Sometimes he's energetic, but he'll stumble, and sometimes it's really bad like in that BET interview. And this is still THE story even during the RNC right after someone took a shot at Trump, so it's pretty clear that the NYTimes and other corporate media won't end up moving on to something else, but will keep fucking this chicken right up to the election.  There's an alternate timeline where Biden is still like a 25% better communicator than he is now where he could probably run against the party elites and the media on this and even turn it into a positive issue for him, but that's not the Biden we have.

I don't even know that it actually improves our chances, but I think at this point it would be best for Biden to step aside for Harris.  The media will absolutely try to ratfuck her too, but at least she might be able to counter whatever they're going to hit her on. But she'll need to run as the inheritor of Biden's more progressive policies and somehow rebuke the donors for trying to take over the entire party.  Because if she begins showing signs of moderating to please the donors after they sabotaged Biden in a hissy fit that he wasn't treating them like special boys, the party will tear itself apart. 

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a viable statewide candidate on the ballot in this cycle (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

The same Teamsters who's president just showing up to speak at the RNC? Seems....tenuous at best. 

Maybe you want to make a case that Florida isn't terminally Red, but Texas? It's been gerrymandered to shit and been run at EVERY LEVEL exclusively by Repuplibcans for...30 years now? 

It's hard to look at any of those states mentioend, and watching the trends, and thinking it's not terminal under current conditions. Eother way, I don't think you ignore a must have swing state like PA, for turning another state Soft Lean, a state which most people have already written off. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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24 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

She is saying that it is only losing hand because we are folding on a flop where we didn't make a pair, but have both flush and straight draws. You don't fold there. You bet into it. The GOP is winning doing exactly that. Dems are too stupid to play the game the way it needs to be played. Replacing Joe may work. But it only works if everyone unites behind the new pick (like they should have united behind GOP). What I worry is that Dems will do the exact same panic maneuver and eat their own as soon as something even slightly negative comes out about the new candidate. 

BINGO.

Dems will never learn. purity politics, eat your own, play by rules of decorum the other side won't to your disadvantage, the list goes on and on.

and in an election where all the "lib" and former "pub" dudes here agree democracy itself is on the ballot, I'm full of histrionics. I love this board.

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5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because he’s popular in the Cincinnati metro area and heavily backed by unions, and Sherrod Brown is on the ballot.  
Brown’s coalition is AFL-CIO and Teamsters, both of whom voted for and supported Bashear. 

 

Texas and Florida aren’t terminally red, Democrats just decided to lose in those places and behaved accordingly. Ohio is reddish purple but it’s very winnable and unlike Texas they have a statewide incumbent on the ballot in this cycle with a lead (Brown). 
I’m not saying affirmatively that Bashear wins Ohio, but between him and Brown winning by 5-6% that would cut the margin down substantially enough to move Ohio from solid red to a  soft lean.

I agree with all that but I just don't think Ohio is even close at this point to being purple.  It's red, especially now with Racist Care Bear as VP.

NC is a better shot.

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6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Yes but as I said before the president gets blamed for the economy even if they don't have a direct influence on it. You are trying to argue against human nature, which is to blame people at the top for things. 

I told you it's maddening, not that it's untrue. yes I was venting.

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2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

1.) The same Teamsters who's president just showing up to speak at the RNC? Seems....tenuous at best. 

The one who gave an anti-big business speech to a room full of confused Republicans and is now dealing with massive blowback in his union? I’m not concerned about that at all.

Are you saying members of the Teamsters Union won’t pull the lever for Sherrod Brown?

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6 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The first one is bullshit. The DNC was facing bankruptcy and the Clintons bought their debt 

Well, the first one is definitely from somebody in the Biden camp. Wouldn’t surprise me if the wealthy donors pushed for Hillary, she was very close with them. And Biden would still have been more focused on his family at the time.

 

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29 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Form the guy who has basically predicted every presidential election right since 1864

 

 

The quintessential set of circumstances your dad would respond to with "you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it."

HOLY FUCK what a mess we've made of what could have instead simply been called a bad debate performance.

bob ross GIF

 

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Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

The one who gave an anti-big business speech to a room full of confused Republicans and is now dealing with massive blowback in his union? I’m not concerned about that at all.

Are you saying members of the Teamsters Union won’t pull the lever for Sherrod Brown?

I haven't followed any of the blowback he's received, so I'm admittedly ignorant there. But he showed up in the firts place. Get back to me when he's fired. 

Are you saying OH is a more important state than PA?

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I get why everyone is upset. when I am upset I want someone to be mad at and blame. Replace upset with livid, anxious, angry whatever you want. 
 

Had Joe passed the torch and not run again we aren’t facing the very real possibility of Trump winning again. The Dem leaders with this trickle down drip drip drip of defections to get Biden to step aside also helped to drastically dry up the money well. If he does step aside (I can’t see him stepping down as well) the real issue is the money injection from donors. 
 

this sucks. 

giphy-downsized.gif

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31 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, Beshear does not put Ohio (or Kentucky, lulz) into play.  Not even if he had a 99% approval rating.  Does he have some cred for speaking to WWC voters?  Oh yeah, no one would mistake Kentucky for California and he won it twice. 

Shapiro won PA easily.  Dude would lock up the most pivotal state for the Dems. 

I refuse to get into these discussions much until it's done, done but Shapiro has to be it.

 

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7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

agree with all that but I just don't think Ohio is even close at this point to being purple.  It's red, especially now with Racist Care Bear as VP

Except for their sitting US senator who is a 1960’s style union liberal. Tim Ryan (who I like) lost to Vance because he sprinted to the middle and tried to appeal to everyone.  Brown wins because he knows who his voters are (and aren’t.) and if Texas Democrats weren’t such fucking losers they would do the same thing.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I haven't followed any of the blowback he's received, so I'm admittedly ignorant there. But he showed up in the firts place. Get back to me when he's fired. 

Are you saying OH is a more important state than PA?

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

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45 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

No one is telling you not to bitch, you've literally just demonstrated in this post above the illogical histrionics at play in your thought process:

You think Biden's debate was devestating and put the election in jeopardy, but you're firmly believe that the Democratic response should be to rally around Biden and near him down. Do you want to ignore the forest for the tress any more? Because fundamentally Democratic Voters and the Republican Base are very, very different creatures, and yet you're pissed off that the Democratic party, which mostly represents their base, doesn't behave like stupid lunatic low IQ Trumpers. Gosh, we're sorry that the overwhelming perception among democrats is that biden should step down, and no one thinks he can win anymore, and even you think the debate was devastataing, BUT BY GAWD WITH DEMOCRACY AT STAKE LETS RALLY BEHIND THIS LOSING HAND AND PUSH IT ALL IN! 

You're upset we don't act like dumb, low IQ trump syophantic fascists and back a losing hand. It makes no sense. 

I don't think adding a gay McKenzie guy to a black woman ticket is going to help. I'd love to see it to. But America is fucking still backwards. 

reading is FUNdamental. I said the response to his debate performance was devastating, not his debate performance. I think debates are borderline meaningless. I think the explanation to his debate performance is easy, I wrote what the next day response should have been on this thread. so stop with the misogynistic insults re histrionics on a board full of ledge jumping sky is falling dudes and try understanding what I wrote instead.

Edited by troph
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3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

This. It’s the reverse of Minnesota or New Mexico being in play. If that’s true, Trump will sweep the Midwest and SW

Edited by Bateshorn
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45 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Probably wouldn't matter much if they did... in America, 93% of stocks are owned by the top 10%.  The bottom 50% only account for 1% of stock ownership.

Most people are more concerned with grocery and gas prices.

Yeah and all those stock owners know that as great as Biden has been, Trump would likely be even better.  They didn’t get all that money by caring about the little guy.  We so fucked.  

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

If Ohio is in play you’re winning PA.

IF Ohio is in play, which it might move to Soft R Lean if you make Andy Beshear the VP pick becuase he's somehow popular in a City and State where he isn't Governor because of reasons/Sherrod Brown doesn't seem to be as slam dunk the move as "Lets just make sure we lock up PA."

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21 minutes ago, troph said:

fify

Totally agree.  Not saying it's right to blame Biden for inflation.  Just pointing out that reporting on stock market gains only moves the needle for about 10% of the country.

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2 minutes ago, troph said:

reading is FUNdamental. I said the response to his debate performance was devastating, not his debate performance. I think debates are borderline meaningless. I think the explanation to his debate performance is easy, I wrote what the next day response should have been on this thread. so stop with the misogynistic insults re histrionics on a board full of ledge jumping sky is falling dudes and try understanding what I wrote instead.

No, the debate was devastating. The resposne was worse. But I'm sorry, if it isn't apparrent, the democratic machine doesn't own the reporting of MSNB, ABC, NBC, and every other outlet the fucking way Fox News does for their followers. So you're lamenting an impossible response to a reality that doesn't fucking exist except in your head. You want to sit here and lament the world we live in, sure, I'm right there with ready to crack open a beer. But you might as well be shaking your fists at clouds.

I use histrionics all the fucking time, it's a great word, so you can take your accusation of misogyny and shove it right up your fucking ass. 

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31 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

I agree with this.  Burn the ships as there is no going back.

Harris becomes president immediately.  She appoints Cooper as VP since he's a solid candidate and he's not doing anything away.  He'd get confirmed in the Senate and then let Moses Mike tell us why the House can't vote on him.

Well I don't know if Bob Menendez will be able to vote on that, and given Sienema and Manchins past actions, they could hold up a nomination. The Rs might be able to seize on the vacancy and find some way to use it to their advantage, or simply keep the new VP from becoming VP during the campaign. The potential chaos might not be the best option here. 

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