2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[bolverk 29,725]

13 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I get why everyone is upset. when I am upset I want someone to be mad at and blame. Replace upset with livid, anxious, angry whatever you want. 
 

Had Joe passed the torch and not run again we aren’t facing the very real possibility of Trump winning again. The Dem leaders with this trickle down drip drip drip of defections to get Biden to step aside also helped to drastically dry up the money well. If he does step aside (I can’t see him stepping down as well) the real issue is the money injection from donors. 
 

this sucks. 

Hope you're feeling better.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,563]

9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

oh man, what'd Joe do now?

Left the stove on. 

[troph 24,910]

26 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

From the Times yesterday:

This is very clearly a literal Dem elite conspiracy that at least to a significant degree isn't even a response to the debate, but to Biden's too-progressive (in their eyes) domestic policies and their lack of access to and control over the White House. The debate was just the perfect excuse for many of these guys.  But the problem is that Biden really can't rebut the narrative that has taken on a life of its own. Sometimes he's energetic, but he'll stumble, and sometimes it's really bad like in that BET interview. And this is still THE story even during the RNC right after someone took a shot at Trump, so it's pretty clear that the NYTimes and other corporate media won't end up moving on to something else, but will keep fucking this chicken right up to the election.  There's an alternate timeline where Biden is still like a 25% better communicator than he is now where he could probably run against the party elites and the media on this and even turn it into a positive issue for him, but that's not the Biden we have.

I don't even know that it actually improves our chances, but I think at this point it would be best for Biden to step aside for Harris.  The media will absolutely try to ratfuck her too, but at least she might be able to counter whatever they're going to hit her on. But she'll need to run as the inheritor of Biden's more progressive policies and somehow rebuke the donors for trying to take over the entire party.  Because if she begins showing signs of moderating to please the donors after they sabotaged Biden in a hissy fit that he wasn't treating them like special boys, the party will tear itself apart. 

rage inducing shit.

[Ghost of LL 15,540]

40 minutes ago, Zonahorn said:

Biden still isn’t willing to drop out

That is not at all what happened in 2015/16.  And I'm really starting to get very pissed at Biden and his people for out-and-out lying about this shit.

Biden didn't run in 2016 because he was sad about Beau's death.  And I remember that, because a lot of us really wanted him to run because we knew Hillary was a flawed candidate.  Fatally so, as it turned out.  And when the country needed Joe to step in and run in 2016, he took a pass.

So don't tell me know that he was "pushed aside."  That's bullshit.

And between that lie and the lies that Biden's people have been telling all of us for the past however-long about Biden's supposed continued mental acuity and the lies that anybody who even asked a question about it was guilty of "ageism," . . . you know--I just don't really trust these people anymore.  And I think they ought to all leave the White House with a sense of embarrassment.

[hookem2010 2,625]

To bring up the point earlier about some of the top candidates potentially not wanting to take the VP position due to the desire to become President...

1) I know politicians are ambitious creatures, but if Shapiro or Whitmer were deemed the most likely to help carry a swing state (I honestly don't know enough to say), but sure would be nice if they'd set that aside for the sake of the country.

2) 4 straight D terms may be unlikely, but those two in particular would still only be in their late 50's/early 60's come 2032, when they would likely be as well positioned as anyone to get the nod (this assumes 2 full Kamala terms OR R getting elected in '28).

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,352]

The quintessential set of circumstances your dad would respond to with "you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it."
HOLY FUCK what a mess we've made of what could have instead simply been called a bad debate performance.

 

Except it wasn't just a "bad debate performance."

It was a "holy fuck please let the entire broadcast center crash & not let a second of this epic meltdown be aired" performance.

I'm going to fill my 2020 Cup of Joe mug w/ Irish whiskey & proudly raise it in his honor. He's overperformed & created stability from the chaotic ruins of Trump's term. But all of that will be undone 1,000X over if he doesn't listen to the adults in the room.

Resign w/ dignity, give Harris a leg up & your full endorsement, & hope like hell that America can once again stave off the growing fascist theocracy that's at our doorstep.

[Aqua Buddha 14,610]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Your rage is entirely misplaced.

You're raging at the media and at the Democratic Party.  You should be raging at Biden and his advisors.

Biden's advisors have seen him decline over the past however-many years.  Yet they lied to us and said everything was fine.  Worse--they accused anybody who raised any questions about Biden's mental acuity of "ageism.  And then, as if their dishonesty wasn't enough, they put Joe Biden up on that debate stage--an act of political malpractice that is, I think, without parallel in modern American politics.

Joe Biden has had the most successful administration in my lifetime.  You and I agree on that front.  But Joe Biden's second term would not be successful, because Joe Biden is barely mentally capable of being president today; there's no way he'll be mentally fit to be president in a year or two, much less four.  And absolutely everybody sees that.  And as a result, there's no point in speculating about the success of a second term, because there is no fucking way in hell that Joe Biden is going to win a second term.

And the reason for this isn't the media.  And it isn't the Democratic Party.  It's the voters, who overwhelmingly say that Biden is not mentally fit to be president.  And you can rage all day at the voters, but in the end, Principal Skinner--it is you whom is out of touch, not the children.

I cannot stress this enough.  The reason we are where we are is not because of the Democratic Party.  It's not because of the media.  And it's damned sure not because of the voters who saw a fragile old man on that debate stage who looked confused, feeble, and unable to articulate a coherent thought and decided that he should not be president.

We are where we are entirely because Biden's inner circle thought they could cover up his mental decline through a fucking presidential campaign and skate through because his opponent is just noxious enough that it might not matter that their candidate couldn't effectively campaign.

We could have been having this conversation a year ago.  We should have been having this conversation a year ago.  The reason we didn't is entirely because of Biden's inner circle.

You know I love you, but you're dreadfully wrong.

You and I would vote for Biden if he were in a fucking permanent vegetative state.  But the problem is that we're not in the majority.  If we rallied around Biden after that debate performance, Biden would still lose.  But worse than that, the Senate and House candidates who rallied around him would lose credibility.  They would be justifiably accused of putting party ahead of country.  And they would lose.  We would lose the House.  We would lose the Senate.  We would lose hundreds of state legislative seats.  The Democratic Party would face an electoral catastrophe if we followed the rally-around-Biden strategy you suggest.

 

 

And by the way--I have a very strong suspicion that a lot of this is driven by Hunter and his hope that his dad would issue a pardon in his second term.  I very much think that if Hunter weren't in there pleading for Joe to stay in the race, that Joe would've stood down two weeks ago.

All of this.  I suspect that history will judge the Biden very Biden very poorly for all this.  He's been slowly going downhill the past year, which is fine if he was at the end of his second term.  However, they were trying to push him for another FIVE years.  Look at Biden now.  FIVE FUCKING YEARS?  That's irresponsible.

Most everyone on here is Gen X or older and we know it when we see it with elderly people and we see it with both of these guys.

[Goofyboy 3,296]

Biden could lose, resign and hand Harris 3 months to overturn an election. The GOP would do it. Nothing is stopping her from doing it - especially with her having immunity. If we are gonna watch this fucker burn, at least make it interesting.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,563]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

becuase he's somehow popular in a City and State where he isn't Governor because of reasons

I realize that some US Americans don’t have maps, but you realize that the southern third of Cincinnati metro is in Kentucky, right? The Cincinnati airport is in Kentucky. A substantial portion of Bashear’s statewide margin came from people who live in the suburbs of Cincinnati.

Edited July 18 by Bozo_Casanova

[Js1 85,579]

Part of me things the WH/Biden are getting mad about the leaks. There’s a big difference, for him, between being pushed aside and standing aside. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

I knew 2024 would be fucked but it’s crazy living through two ongoing coups simultaneously. 

[Aqua Buddha 14,610]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

That is not at all what happened in 2015/16.  And I'm really starting to get very pissed at Biden and his people for out-and-out lying about this shit.

Biden didn't run in 2016 because he was sad about Beau's death.  And I remember that, because a lot of us really wanted him to run because we knew Hillary was a flawed candidate.  Fatally so, as it turned out.  And when the country needed Joe to step in and run in 2016, he took a pass.

So don't tell me know that he was "pushed aside."  That's bullshit.

And between that lie and the lies that Biden's people have been telling all of us for the past however-long about Biden's supposed continued mental acuity and the lies that anybody who even asked a question about it was guilty of "ageism," . . . you know--I just don't really trust these people anymore.  And I think they ought to all leave the White House with a sense of embarrassment.

I'm catching up but yeah, that's bullshit.

These are the same people that think Biden is some generational pol.  I get being a fan of your own team but jeez.  I'm not only starting to question their judgement but their sense of reality.

[wildcat09 29,393]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

That is not at all what happened in 2015/16.  And I'm really starting to get very pissed at Biden and his people for out-and-out lying about this shit.

Biden didn't run in 2016 because he was sad about Beau's death.  And I remember that, because a lot of us really wanted him to run because we knew Hillary was a flawed candidate.  Fatally so, as it turned out.  And when the country needed Joe to step in and run in 2016, he took a pass.

So don't tell me know that he was "pushed aside."  That's bullshit.

And between that lie and the lies that Biden's people have been telling all of us for the past however-long about Biden's supposed continued mental acuity and the lies that anybody who even asked a question about it was guilty of "ageism," . . . you know--I just don't really trust these people anymore.  And I think they ought to all leave the White House with a sense of embarrassment.

Agree with all of this. Understanding they're not going to just publicly say "yeah Biden is obviously only functional like 3 hours a day," and it's their job to push back on this shit until it isn't, but they don't need to be just openly lying like this.  

[Chuckie Finster 22,737]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Part of me things the WH/Biden are getting mad about the leaks. There’s a big difference, for him, between being pushed aside and standing aside. 

There was a noticeable break in outside pressure from Saturday-Wednesday, that I think many attributed to the Trump shooting.  I actually think this was the window they likely gave him to make the call on his own, and now the gloves are off.

[troph 24,910]

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

No, the debate was devastating. The resposne was worse. But I'm sorry, if it isn't apparrent, the democratic machine doesn't own the reporting of MSNB, ABC, NBC, and every other outlet the fucking way Fox News does for their followers. So you're lamenting an impossible response to a reality that doesn't fucking exist except in your head. You want to sit here and lament the world we live in, sure, I'm right there with ready to crack open a beer. But you might as well be shaking your fists at clouds.

I use histrionics all the fucking time, it's a great word, so you can take your accusation of misogyny and shove it right up your fucking ass. 

you can call me dramatic when your post articulates you understand what I fucking say, until then shove it right back up your fucking ass.  You called my post histrionic because I admitted the debate performance was devastating. It wasn't, I didn't say that. That night Biden started to repair at 1am in a waffle house saying "it's hard to debate a liar" and that was a GREAT response, and he had a great speech the very next day. The plan to spin this was in process, but as we have learned, money, media, the Party and yes @Ghost of LL Dem voters wouldn't allow it.

It's becoming quite clear, most of us are wrong here. It's monied elites that are actually pulling the strings here and simply using the debate as the crevice to take advantage of. BUYING senators and representatives to come out and say Biden needs to step down. That's the problem and it only makes the rage worse.

 

 

[Mo Horn 8,855]

23 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

My wife has been on two progressive calls this morning. Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House. 

[SydneyCarton 48,177]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

Biden could lose, resign and hand Harris 3 months to overturn an election. The GOP would do it. Nothing is stopping her from doing it - especially with her having immunity. If we are gonna watch this fucker burn, at least make it interesting.

There's a reason the chinese adage "May you live in interesting times" is actually a curse. 

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I realize that some US Americans don’t have maps, but you realize that the southern third of Cincinnati metro is in Kentucky, right? The Cincinnati airport is in Kentucky. A substantial portion of Bashear’s statewide margin came from people who live in the suburbs of Cincinnati.

I've lived in Texas my entire life. I consider myself fairly educated, and of above average intelligent. But I only ACT like I know everything, Rogers. And let me tell you, one of the LAST things on my list to ever spend my free time is brushing up on the Geography of Kentucky. And even lower on the list, much lower, is brushing up on the Geography of fucking Ohio. Ohio. The only place that can look down on Florida. 

I will admit to being confused. You're telling me that the substantial portion of Beshear's statewide margin came from people who live in the suburbs of Cincinnatti...who live in Ohio? Listen, I realize what you're actually saying there, he's popular in the suburbs regardless of the state, but how is this a better plan than just "Lets go ahead and lock down the state we HAVE TO WIN versus the state we didn't have to win with last time?

[Nicole44 22,078]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Hope you're feeling better.

Thanks! Home from hospital. Won’t “Nicole” the thread by detailing it with my stuff. 
 

Damnit Bob Newhart died.

If Biden is truly dug in and will not step aside the money will dry up. The leaders might be forced to 25th him. I can’t think of what else will  work if he doesn’t step aside. It’s depressing and infuriating. He should not have run for a second term.
 

Campaigning from the WH is a huge advantage and his inner circle of dipshits kept him from the press and everyone else for a year and 1/2. Last cabinet meeting 2023. Same for last solo presser (October and November respectively.) that’s malpractice as has been pointed out. He had the best advantage. Home court advantage: the WH!
 

and most of us outside of the SoTU hadn’t seen his ass all year. Kamala or another candidate could have used that advantage and it was squandered.

 

i blame him. And if he’s not to blame bc of mental decline I blame his inner circle. They took in tons of money (Trump raises money for both parties) and now it’s running out. I don’t care if the Dem convention is on zoom or only fans. Duck a fuck. Sorry tired. Will leave yall to fixing this mess and will vote for whoever comes out of it. 

[C-Man 27,262]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

No, the debate was devastating. The resposne was worse. But I'm sorry, if it isn't apparrent, the democratic machine doesn't own the reporting of MSNB, ABC, NBC, and every other outlet the fucking way Fox News does for their followers. So you're lamenting an impossible response to a reality that doesn't fucking exist except in your head. You want to sit here and lament the world we live in, sure, I'm right there with ready to crack open a beer. But you might as well be shaking your fists at clouds.

I use histrionics all the fucking time, it's a great word, so you can take your accusation of misogyny and shove it right up your fucking ass. 

This is it exactly. We knew he was old. The debate just drove it home. Biden could be perfect from here on out and that debate still has an effect, sadly. Chances are Biden has several more bad moments between now and November and we will be too low to pull a parachute at that point.

I hate that this is how it ends because he's a good man and he's done a remarkable job given the shit sandwich he inherited. He deserves better than this. But he's 81 -- and physically frail. He's also going up against a bully who doesn't play by the rules. He's backed by a political party that doesn't play by the rules.

[Goredho 17,420]

This is a strategic failure, but everything being talked about here is tactical.  How do Dems deal with a candidate that voters are rapidly losing faith in due to his public appearances as a frail and increasingly not lucid old man?  With where Biden is at, there were no good options after the debate.  Pretend it didn't happen and stay the course, say thanks but drop him like a hot potato.  Those are all shitty options with no guarantee of election success no matter how vociferously anyone here wants to argue them.  There was no unity for any of the courses of action because the Dems had strategically blundered badly enough to only leave themselves with shitty choices.

The only good choice was a strategic one that would have had to be made 4 years ago: pair Joe with a rising star moderate with upside, use Joe's first term to make them look great, then let Joe hand them the reigns before any primaries this year.  Instead, Joe was paired with a person who many here claim is unelectable due to their hue and gender, that person was put in the witness protection program for the last 4 years, Joe was allowed to say fuck it lets make it a twofer, and then he was allowed to have the political equivalent of a stroke on national TV.  That is why we are where we are.  If you need someone to blame, here are the people responsible.  Your champions of democracy, the Democratic Party:

 

[Aqua Buddha 14,610]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

There's a reason the chinese adage "May you live in interesting times" is actually a curse. 

I've lived in Texas my entire life. I consider myself fairly educated, and of above average intelligent. But I only ACT like I know everything, Rogers. And let me tell you, one of the LAST things on my list to ever spend my free time is brushing up on the Geography of Kentucky. And even lower on the list, much lower, is brushing up on the Geography of fucking Ohio. Ohio. The only place that can look down on Florida. 

I will admit to being confused. You're telling me that the substantial portion of Beshear's statewide margin came from people who live in the suburbs of Cincinnatti...who live in Ohio? Listen, I realize what you're actually saying there, he's popular in the suburbs regardless of the state, but how is this a better plan than just "Lets go ahead and lock down the state we HAVE TO WIN versus the state we didn't have to win with last time?

Ohio is the Florida of the Midwest.  Of the big states, it's by far and away the whitest and least educated.  

[Zonahorn 8,079]

Quote

As President Biden faces mounting calls from prominent Democrats to drop out of the race, a member of his inner circle flatly denied reports that the president is now more open to the idea of ending his campaign.

"Anyone who has talked to Joe Biden in the last 24 hours can tell you that is not true," the senior White House official, who has spoken to Biden today, told ABC News.

The official said nothing has changed regarding Biden's candidacy and the campaign, with the exception that COVID is keeping him home.

"He is going to win the nomination and then the party is going to need to unite," the official said.

The senior official expressed anger and frustration at the criticism Biden is taking from fellow Democrats, acknowledging that the calls for the president to drop out have taken a toll and will likely cause further erosion in the polls.

This official also told ABC News that reports to the contrary are coming out of Congress, and not from those who truly know the mindset of the president.

"He is preparing to hit the campaign trail again next week," the official said.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/2024-election-campaign-updates/?id=111816443&entryId=112073599

[SydneyCarton 48,177]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

you can call me dramatic when your post articulates you understand what I fucking say, until then shove it right back up your fucking ass.  You called my post histrionic because I admitted the debate performance was devastating. It wasn't, I didn't say that. That night Biden started to repair at 1am in a waffle house saying "it's hard to debate a liar" and that was a GREAT response, and he had a great speech the very next day. The plan to spin this was in process, but as we have learned, money, media, the Party and yes @Ghost of LL Dem voters wouldn't allow it.

It's becoming quite clear, most of us are wrong here. It's monied elites that are actually pulling the strings here and simply using the debate as the crevice to take advantage of. BUYING senators and representatives to come out and say Biden needs to step down. That's the problem and it only makes the rage worse.

 

 

You're in a widly huge minority that doesn't believe the debate performance wasn't devastating. So I don't really care about the distinction of of whether you find the response devastating or not, becuase you can't identify the reality surrounding the actual debate. And yes, your posts are absolutely histrionic. 

Yes yes, lets get on our conspiracy theory caps and blame this on big money, and globalism. It's not Biden and the fact he looks decripid and confused half the time, demonstrably worse than he did 4 years ago. Don't believe your lyin' eyes, guys, it's George Soros!!!!!

I wouldn't say it's becoming "quite clear" here to most people. 

[troph 24,910]

22 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Except it wasn't just a "bad debate performance."

It was a "holy fuck please let the entire broadcast center crash & not let a second of this epic meltdown be aired" performance.

I'm going to fill my 2020 Cup of Joe mug w/ Irish whiskey & proudly raise it in his honor. He's overperformed & created stability from the chaotic ruins of Trump's term. But all of that will be undone 1,000X over if he doesn't listen to the adults in the room.

Resign w/ dignity, give Harris a leg up & your full endorsement, & hope like hell that America can once again stave off the growing fascist theocracy that's at our doorstep.

If Biden at the time is the best bet to win you spin it like a mother fucker. that was entirely possible 24 hours later. as reports are now saying, elites wouldn't have it.

now the best bet is Biden has a covid related health decline, he resigns, she moves up (assuming the VP for control of the Senate is a dem for jan 6 shenanigans), Shapiro joins the ticket and somehow they fight off the elites and we have at least as progressive of an admin.

Edited July 18 by troph

[TexEx15 17,569]

 

[YGIFS 19,452]

If Harris were to ascend to POTUS, the Senate remains 50/50.  But as I understand it from ConLaw, Patty Murray as Pro Tem would be "President of the Senate" in name only, she basically runs the chamber day-to-day anyway in terms of floor logistics, while Schumer controls the votes/legislation.  Meaning she cannot vast a vote as a "tie-breaker."  She may cast her own as a duly elected Senator from the State of Washington.  But she doesn't "Get" an extra vote on top of that to break a 50-50 tie. 

With 5 months still left of this Congress, that would make those "Independents" and moderates on either side the most critical Senators since the Civil War.  Because there's literally no way to break a tie.  Everything just stalls. 

Harris could still appoint a VP, there's just enough time to get that person through.  But depending on who it is:

1.  Does that person necessarily have to be Kamala's running mate?  Can it just be somebody who can jump on the grenade to maintain Presidency of the Senate, spend a few months as VP cutting ribbons, and then be content to not be on the ticket and go back to being a House Rep. or even a Lt. Gov. of some solid blue state that doesn't have a 2024 cycle they need to campaign through? Maybe one of the lesser-known Cabinet members who has no ambition to run for high office down the road, and is promised a loyalty reward of a more cabinet position should Harris/XYZ win in November.  

2.  The GOP will delay any vote so as to maintain the 50/50 split as long as possible.  But it's worth putting somebody out there who guarantees in writing on national television by some sort of election law affidavit, they will not appear on the 2024 ballot.  they are just doing their patriotic duty to keep the Upper Chamber running smoothly until January, plus other cursory VP duties.  Could put McConnell's minions in a tough spot. Particularly if it's a woman or person of color.  

3.  Or does she keep the VP spot vacant, pick a running mate, and that person just campaigns and doesn't bother with the Senate at all?  Which could be trouble come November.  

4.  Risk appointing a VP replacement who is also the running mate as "extra prepared to hit the ground running in January", unlike Vance who has been a junior senator for 17 months.  It's a gamble because that person could get fucked with by the McConnell folks at hearing.  Or they could use it as the greatest free ad space in election history to beat down the dais.  

5.  Safe move would normally be.  Appoint a new VP who will also be your running mate, and just let the GOP delay it all they want---don't fight it while looking like you're fighting it.  Up until early voting starts.  Trouble this cycle would be, Kamala and this new appointed VP/running mate are still both relatively unknown to the country.  You can't wait until early voting, you gotta get the rest of America to know both of 'em and fast. 

It's the 50/50 split with nobody minding the store when EC certification comes around again on January 6th: 2025 Edition.  That's the one that should worry you.  

 

[DixonHur 11,376]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

If Biden at the time is the best bet to win you spin it like a mother fucker. that was entirely possible 24 hours later. elites wouldn't have it.

Narrator: He wasn't and isn't

[troph 24,910]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You're in a widly huge minority that doesn't believe the debate performance wasn't devastating. So I don't really care about the distinction of of whether you find the response devastating or not, becuase you can't identify the reality surrounding the actual debate. And yes, your posts are absolutely histrionic. 

Yes yes, lets get on our conspiracy theory caps and blame this on big money, and globalism. It's not Biden and the fact he looks decripid and confused half the time, demonstrably worse than he did 4 years ago. Don't believe your lyin' eyes, guys, it's George Soros!!!!!

I wouldn't say it's becoming "quite clear" here to most people. 

 

I'm no longer interested in playing this game with you.

[troph 24,910]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Narrator: He wasn't and isn't

wrong. incumbency is a powerful influence. spin it and move on. that's what the best campaigns do. instead we are talking about the POTUS fucking resigning 3 months out and scrambling to the finish line.

now should Biden have resigned mid-term or declined to run, yes, yes, yes, yes. but at the time in question, he hadn't so you do the best you can. spin was the best right move and it didn't happen and here we are.

 

Edited July 18 by troph

[Bullneck 19,209]

This election cycle is the Boise State - OU of Fiesta Bowls.  

Close, exciting, back and forth, with cowbell player at halftime, and a hook and ladder and Statue of Liberty, and a marriage proposal.

The good guys win in the end.

[DixonHur 11,376]

2 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 

Where is the 8th Circuit again?  Oh, now it makes sense.

[aggie08 21,532]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

This election cycle is the Boise State - OU of Fiesta Bowls.  

Close, exciting, back and forth, with cowbell player at halftime, and a hook and ladder and Statue of Liberty, and a marriage proposal.

The good guys win in the end.

Putting all of my hopes on the backup quarterback hasn't failed me yet!

Wait...

[DixonHur 11,376]

1 minute ago, troph said:

wrong.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you'll find yourself in the minority in this instance.

[6th Street 6,508]

8 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 

Good. Don't take on loans you can't pay off

[Sawbonz 27,589]

6 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

 

The baller thing to do here is proceed like the ruling never happened. Acting in his official capacity and in the best interests of the country and all. The perfect opportunity to put that bullshit SCOTUS ruling in play without bloodshed involved

 

Sadly that won’t happen. 

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Putting all of my hopes on the backup quarterback hasn't failed me yet!

Wait...

You didn’t watch much Texas OU in the past decade I take it

[troph 24,910]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you'll find yourself in the minority in this instance.

dude, I'm almost always in the minority and also right more often than not. the best candidate is one that didn't exist. that candidate was the winner of the primaries when Biden pulled an LBJ and declined to run again. Since that didn't happen, it's Biden post-debate or brokered convention and a wildcard candidate 4 months out. SPIN THAT SHIT and move on.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Sawbonz 27,589]

1 minute ago, 6th Street said:

Good. Don't take on loans you can't pay off

Tell that to the banks, auto companies, big tech, pharma, airlines …

[DixonHur 11,376]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

Tell that to the banks, auto companies, big tech, pharma, airlines …

And Trump

[Ghost of LL 15,540]

41 minutes ago, troph said:

The quintessential set of circumstances your dad would respond to with "you made your bed now you gotta sleep in it."

HOLY FUCK what a mess we've made of what could have instead simply been called a bad debate performance.

 

No, ma'am--don't bring me that shit.  Because that's not what you were saying three weeks ago.  During the debate, you were saying "we are in deep shit;" "Biden looks feeble."  At one point that night, you wrote "come on Joe if you can’t win this you’re done."  And then as the evening went on and it became clear that Biden wasn't going to win this, you wrote but yes Biden should drop out and Pete should be his replacement, 100% on board.

It wasn't just "a bad debate performance."  It was a catastrophic performance that indicated to everyone watching--including you--that Biden was not mentally capable of (1) being president or (2) beating Trump.

To argue now that we should have rallied around Biden and just dismissed it as "a bad debate performance" when you yourself did precisely the opposite is the height of disingenuousness.  

[bolverk 29,725]

Jamie Raskin has joined the chorus of those asking Biden to drop out.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

I think G Elliot is going to really have to tweak 538’s formula for next time.  If he’s still saying it is a toss up (or even that Biden is leading) and the boots on the ground know that we are in Hail Mary mode and have to do unprecedented things for a chance to win, it really puts to lie that their model is worth anything.  

 

Someone pointed out earlier that it is more heavily weighted toward fundamentals this early before weighing more on polls later.  That might be the issue that gets heavily modified.  

['stache 21,872]

10 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

If Harris were to ascend to POTUS, the Senate remains 50/50.  But as I understand it from ConLaw, Patty Murray as Pro Tem would be "President of the Senate" in name only, she basically runs the chamber day-to-day anyway in terms of floor logistics, while Schumer controls the votes/legislation.  Meaning she cannot vast a vote as a "tie-breaker."  She may cast her own as a duly elected Senator from the State of Washington.  But she doesn't "Get" an extra vote on top of that to break a 50-50 tie. 

With 5 months still left of this Congress, that would make those "Independents" and moderates on either side the most critical Senators since the Civil War.  Because there's literally no way to break a tie.  Everything just stalls. 

Harris could still appoint a VP, there's just enough time to get that person through.  But depending on who it is:

1.  Does that person necessarily have to be Kamala's running mate?  Can it just be somebody who can jump on the grenade to maintain Presidency of the Senate, spend a few months as VP cutting ribbons, and then be content to not be on the ticket and go back to being a House Rep. or even a Lt. Gov. of some solid blue state that doesn't have a 2024 cycle they need to campaign through? Maybe one of the lesser-known Cabinet members who has no ambition to run for high office down the road, and is promised a loyalty reward of a more cabinet position should Harris/XYZ win in November.  

2.  The GOP will delay any vote so as to maintain the 50/50 split as long as possible.  But it's worth putting somebody out there who guarantees in writing on national television by some sort of election law affidavit, they will not appear on the 2024 ballot.  they are just doing their patriotic duty to keep the Upper Chamber running smoothly until January, plus other cursory VP duties.  Could put McConnell's minions in a tough spot. Particularly if it's a woman or person of color.  

3.  Or does she keep the VP spot vacant, pick a running mate, and that person just campaigns and doesn't bother with the Senate at all?  Which could be trouble come November.  

4.  Risk appointing a VP replacement who is also the running mate as "extra prepared to hit the ground running in January", unlike Vance who has been a junior senator for 17 months.  It's a gamble because that person could get fucked with by the McConnell folks at hearing.  Or they could use it as the greatest free ad space in election history to beat down the dais.  

5.  Safe move would normally be.  Appoint a new VP who will also be your running mate, and just let the GOP delay it all they want---don't fight it while looking like you're fighting it.  Up until early voting starts.  Trouble this cycle would be, Kamala and this new appointed VP/running mate are still both relatively unknown to the country.  You can't wait until early voting, you gotta get the rest of America to know both of 'em and fast. 

It's the 50/50 split with nobody minding the store when EC certification comes around again on January 6th: 2025 Edition.  That's the one that should worry you.  

 

He wouldn't be resigning the presidency he would be removing himself as a candidate for reelection.

[Vegas64 678]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No, ma'am--don't bring me that shit.  Because that's not what you were saying three weeks ago.  During the debate, you were saying "we are in deep shit;" "Biden looks feeble."  At one point that night, you wrote "come on Joe if you can’t win this you’re done."  And then as the evening went on and it became clear that Biden wasn't going to win this, you wrote but yes Biden should drop out and Pete should be his replacement, 100% on board.

It wasn't just "a bad debate performance."  It was a catastrophic performance that indicated to everyone watching--including you--that Biden was not mentally capable of (1) being president or (2) beating Trump.

To argue now that we should have rallied around Biden and just dismissed it as "a bad debate performance" when you yourself did precisely the opposite is the height of disingenuousness.  

We really need the "eyes" emoji. This post gets that.

[Firemans4Horn 18,123]

We’re now at the George Soros and the unnamed monied liberal cabal is the reason Biden can’t win stage. In the 5 stages of grief I think this is between bargaining and depression.

[Js1 85,579]

2 minutes ago, 'stache said:

He wouldn't be resigning the presidency he would be removing himself as a candidate for reelection.

Well some people want him to do that and let her have the bully pulpit and basically running as an incumbent. 

[wildcat09 29,393]

Just now, Firemans4Horn said:

We’re now at the George Soros and the unnamed monied liberal cabal is the reason Biden can’t win stage. In the 5 stages of grief I think this is between bargaining and depression.

Many of the donors involved in the pressure campaign are named in the NY Times article I linked on the last page. 

[Js1 85,579]

30 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I knew 2024 would be fucked but it’s crazy living through two ongoing coups simultaneously. 

We are speed running some 1960s shit

[Brisketexan 105,349]

3 minutes ago, Firemans4Horn said:

We’re now at the George Soros and the unnamed monied liberal cabal is the reason Biden can’t win stage. In the 5 stages of grief I think this is between bargaining and depression.

Wrong.  Every stage is the "getting a nail-studded baseball bat rammed up our ass" stage.  That really distracts from any of the more subtle responses like bargaining or depression.

[troph 24,910]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

No, ma'am--don't bring me that shit.  Because that's not what you were saying three weeks ago.  During the debate, you were saying "we are in deep shit;" "Biden looks feeble."  At one point that night, you wrote "come on Joe if you can’t win this you’re done."  And then as the evening went on and it became clear that Biden wasn't going to win this, you wrote but yes Biden should drop out and Pete should be his replacement, 100% on board.

It wasn't just "a bad debate performance."  It was a catastrophic performance that indicated to everyone watching--including you--that Biden was not mentally capable of (1) being president or (2) beating Trump.

To argue now that we should have rallied around Biden and just dismissed it as "a bad debate performance" when you yourself did precisely the opposite is the height of disingenuousness.  

you don't participate in game threads here very often do you? no it's histrionics the night of the debate. wink wink.

find the progression of my thinking - and I'll readily admit my thinking is fluid and it changes so it's the progression that matters - instead you picked initial reactions and hold that against me. that's way more disingenuous LL than my fluidity and progression of thought.

that same night I posted about his waffle house comment "it's hard to debate a liar" and said that was a FANTASTIC response. Then the next day I watched and acknowledged his NC speech performance and said on this thread we need more of that, maybe he can come around. I started to come around to the spin approach in less than 24 hours.

I then typed out the spin response I would go with, saying something to the effect that Biden should go on the George Steph interview and say, "look, I'm old, I get it and I've slowed some, but I'm still in the game. arguing about golf was childish, but look I was flabergasted and the lies, man the lies. Look you can't respond to 20 lies in 60 seconds. I didn't do a good job, but hey, look, he's a con a convicted felon, rapist, insurrectionist and so let's talk about what matters, are we going to save democracy? if so America has to vote for me."

So within 24-48 hours I had shifted.

After that, I thought his interviews and oval office speeches were fine and noticed the media were latching on to one or two word mix ups which I think is entirely unfair.

But the drum beat wouldn't stop.

and here we are.

so next time you want to waste billable hours digging through my posts and quoting me, please - as a friend - get it right.

 

ps - I pulled you in there to say I agree dem voters think for themselves too it was agreeing with one of your earlier statements.  sorry if it pissed you off. you of all people should know I'm nothing if not genuine.

Edited July 18 by troph

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,415]

56 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

My wife has been on two progressive calls this morning. Lot of smoke pouring out of the White House.