2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[troph 24,905]

1 hour ago, Dnaguy said:

Joe Biden staying in the race and believing he’s the only person that can beat Trump is Trumpian in and of itself and confirmation that MAGA is correct that he has mental decline to not understand his limitations and how seriously flawed he is as a candidate.

What a weird pretzel we’ve got ourselves into.

Not really, anyone who can win a presidential election has more ego and confidence than any of us plebs could ever comprehend. That’s not MAGA that’s inherent in the common personality traits of all presidents. 

[Js1 85,517]

What’s your solution? That they didn’t run Warren?

[Dnaguy 12,042]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

the Biden flaw is that he can't easily speak on his platform to protect women's rights and other issues that matter to many. I believe his surrogates can do so but people tune in to hear the candidate not their cabinet officials or senators. 

I think this is a flaw that isn’t talked about enough.

One thing that is always present in politics is that character, story, and brand have to be right for the time and place. 
When Joe was elected, Roe was still law. He was in a sense, the foil / rational version of old white guy. That worked when the world was in tumult.

Now we have a court stripping away long held standards and rights. We have women losing their freedoms by the day and dying bc of it.

The opposition is calling for the fundamental restructuring of our democratic system with judges that will rubber stamp it.

Corruption has been codified.

This is not his moment anymore. He’s done his patriotic duty by beating trump during Covid. Pass the torch man. Understand that while you got America off the mat, you’re not going to be able to beat Trump 2.0.

I feel as if we’re seeing something of shitty reverse melding of Rocky, Rocky II, Ricky 3, and Rocky 5….where Rocky (an already retired boxer a la Rocky 5) beat Apollo in their first match and then Apollo is trained by Clubber Lang to improve his fight style and fight Rocky in a rematch (a la Rocky 2) in which Rocky is dealing with brain injuries (Rocky 5).

I think this is why we’re in an AI LLM simulation hellscape. Everything that is new is just a garbled retelling of past events. It feels familiar and new… actually the term should be ‘knew’ both new and old all at once…..a sort of dream like quality due to our brains inability to completely decode the information it’s being fed.

Edited July 19 by Dnaguy

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

What’s your solution? That they didn’t run Warren?

It’s not so much the person as it is the posturing.  The democrats have basically played defense for the last 12 years and talked themselves out of doing anything remotely bold or ambitious because it might upset the people who were never going to support them anyway.  And almost anyone other than Biden would have been better in 2020 if it could have avoided this mess we find ourselves in today. 

[troph 24,905]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Could the Democrats have mismanaged the Trump era any worse?  I mean, they will never have a more easily beatable schmuck to run against. They could have gone hard AF and done so much more but they decided to run/crown Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden twice.  The missed opportunity against this clown movement of racist imbeciles is incomprehensible. Sad!
 

/Doomer post

They couldn’t have. And media legitimizing Trump with feigned attempts at impartiality hasn’t helped at all either. 

[BrickHorn 18,269]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s not so much the person as it is the posturing.  The democrats have basically played defense for the last 12 years and talked themselves out of doing anything remotely bold or ambitious because it might upset the people who were never going to support them anyway.  And almost anyone other than Biden would have been better in 2020 if it could have avoided this mess we find ourselves in today. 

As much as I wish the Dems had been able to push a progressive agenda these past few years, I think that was likely not realistic. The Republicans poached a large chunk of the Dems’ former working class base. That was made possible by the Dems’ rightward shift in the 80s and 90s, which made them weaker in labor issues and thus more susceptible to being painted as the party of liberal, immoral, irreligious elites. 

Like it or not, a significant slice of the Dem base at this point is former center-right Republicans who can’t tolerate the know-nothing populism of the modern GOP.  I was just talking about the RNC with someone who fits that description today. Good luck selling those voters on progressive issues like student loan forgiveness, universal health care, higher capital gains taxes, or universal basic income. 

Labor was the wind in the sails of progressive reform. We lost them by catering to Reaganist globalism and letting the GOP play to their worst social issue instincts. 

[troph 24,905]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

As much as I wish the Dems had been able to push a progressive agenda these past few years, I think that was likely not realistic. The Republicans poached a large chunk of the Dems’ former working class base. That was made possible by the Dems’ rightward shift in the 80s and 90s, which made them weaker in labor issues and thus more susceptible to being painted as the party of liberal, immoral, irreligious elites. 

Like it or not, a significant slice of the Dem base at this point is former center-right Republicans who can’t tolerate the know-nothing populism of the modern GOP.  I was just talking about the RNC with someone who fits that description today. Good luck selling those voters on progressive issues like student loan forgiveness, universal health care, higher capital gains taxes, or universal basic income. 

Labor was the wind in the sails of progressive reform. We lost them by catering to Reaganist globalism and letting the GOP play to their worst social issue instincts. 

This is a superb comment.

Edited July 19 by troph
Spelling

[bolverk 29,708]

11 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Re: legal issues. Is it bc of getting the correct name on the ballot? Of the nominee? Bc of when the ballots go out? Is that what she is saying? 

A week or so ago, I posted a rather lengthy piece about the GQP fielding an army of lawyers across the country to challenge the ability of state and local officials to certify the elections in each of their jurisdictions - all the way down to the precinct level. Basically, they're already prepared to short-circuit the entire election on a grander scale than the last time they tried at the last second.

I'd understand the argument if it were to get the correct name on the ballot or past a state's deadline, but this is not the case here. They're prepared to challenge any change, even at this very moment. That's what's at issue.

Trump and his army of minions are here to sow chaos and break our already very flawed patchwork election system, which I think we all should agree needs greater reform than what's been put in place since the 2020 cycle.

These people do not believe in democracy.

• Listen to Trump when he says he wants to be a dictator for a day (yeah, right) or when he says he wants to suspend the Constitution.
• Listen to Republicans spout the lie that America is a republic and not a democracy (That's like saying a Ford is not a vehicle).
• Listen to what Peter Thiel (JD Vance's mentor and bagman) when he says, "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." He's talking about his freedom to do whatever the hell he wants without the baggage of democracy (meaning the rights of the people or his responsibility as a citizen).
• Watch as the Republicans make it increasingly difficult for citizens in places like Texas to vote or how they gerrymander the fuck out of districts to make them uncompetitive. 
• Watch as they continue to defend an Electoral College system in which the popular vote is often negated.
• Watch as the Republican-controlled SCOTUS trashes the Voting Rights and the Civil Rights Acts.
• Watch as the same SCOTUS eliminates your rights to privacy and reproductive health.
• Watch as they eventually deport US citizens under the guise of rounding up illegal aliens.
• Listen to the posters on the board who "joke" that women shouldn't have ever been allowed to vote.

What's at stake are some very fundamental issues about our democracy.

[Dnaguy 12,042]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s not so much the person as it is the posturing.  The democrats have basically played defense for the last 12 years and talked themselves out of doing anything remotely bold or ambitious because it might upset the people who were never going to support them anyway.  And almost anyone other than Biden would have been better in 2020 if it could have avoided this mess we find ourselves in today. 

The ACA was a real thing.

[DixonHur 11,358]

I interrupt this programing to bring you more doom and gloom in the form of the latest polling.  

On the left is the day before the assassination attempt, and on the right is today.  Looks like a lot of it is movement from Kennedy to Trump.

Arizona:

Georgia:

Michigan:

Nevada:

North Carolina:

Pennsylvania:

A lot of people in this country are gonna get fucked because a stubborn old man has refused to do the right thing... and the clock is ticking.  Every minute he stays in the race is a minute lost in trying to make up lost ground.

 

[bolverk 29,708]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

A lot of people in this country are gonna get fucked because a stubborn old man has refused to do the right thing... and the clock is ticking.  Every minute he stays in the race is a minute lost in trying to make up lost ground.

All candidates get a post-convention "bounce." At this point, it is difficult to separate that fact from the continued questioning of Biden's capacity to carry on and the assassination attempt. Don't get me wrong, though. It doesn't look good right now, but a one-point shift in the polls after those three items isn't going to freak me the fuck out (yet).

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

31 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I think this is why we’re in an AI LLM simulation hellscape.

Ever since Reality Winner, I’ve suspected as much. 

[DixonHur 11,358]

Just now, bolverk said:

All candidates get a post-convention "bounce." At this point, it is difficult to separate that fact from the continued questioning of Biden's capacity to carry on and the assassination attempt. Don't get me wrong, though. It doesn't look good right now, but a one-point shift in the polls after those three items isn't going to freak me the fuck out (yet).

Good point.

My fear is that I think we've all long suspected that Kennedy voters are likely right leaning independents or former Republicans looking for a reason not to vote for Trump, but so far, the Democrats haven't given them one.

I think there's still time, but the clock is ticking.

[troph 24,905]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

All candidates get a post-convention "bounce." At this point, it is difficult to separate that fact from the continued questioning of Biden's capacity to carry on and the assassination attempt. Don't get me wrong, though. It doesn't look good right now, but a one-point shift in the polls after those three items isn't going to freak me the fuck out (yet).

No but the legal tactics will, should, and do. 

[aggie08 21,522]

Just now, DixonHur said:

Good point.

My fear is that I think we've all long suspected that Kennedy voters are likely right leaning independents or former Republicans looking for a reason not to vote for Trump, but so far, the Democrats haven't given them one.

I think there's still time, but the clock is ticking.

And if Trump's team's data is telling them the same, Kennedy is going to drop out and endorse Donald. 100%

[troph 24,905]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

And if Trump's team's data is telling them the same, Kennedy is going to drop out and endorse Donald. 100%

Wouldn’t shock me at all if it’s a ploy to get paid or get a prominent appointment. 

[DixonHur 11,358]

Just now, aggie08 said:

And if Trump's team's data is telling them the same, Kennedy is going to drop out and endorse Donald. 100%

Well, Trump's big money donors have also been donating to Kennedy, so I think that's been the game plan all along.

[Radical Larry 28,659]

Director of CDC 

[Texas Flood 1,356]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

These people are grasping at straws and are becoming worse than the assassination conspiracy dorks.

[Red Five 40,881]

Here’s what I like. Dotard stands up on stage and says that he will pardon the 1/6 “hostages”. The crowd erupts in applause. Then at the RNC some sycophant says “Trump stands with the police, not with the rioters” (huge applause).

So, just trained monkeys, who will applaud whatever they hear.

[DixonHur 11,358]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

Here’s what I like. Dotard stands up on stage and says that he will pardon the 1/6 “hostages”. The crowd erupts in applause. Then at the RNC some sycophant says “Trump stands with the police, not with the rioters” (huge applause).

So, just trained monkeys, who will applaud whatever they hear.

[jimmyjazz 46,085]

15 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

My fear is that I think we've all long suspected that Kennedy voters are likely right leaning independents or former Republicans

Suspected?  It's the same "libertarian" core group that just doesn't want to be labeled as Republicans.  They are one and the same.  All modern "libertarians" are.

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

32 minutes ago, troph said:

This is a suburb comment.

True.  But suburbs are where elections are won and lost.  City are for the most part all D and we all know what’s up with the country folk.  And no, I don’t have any solutions.  Just know that Joe ain’t that dude…

[aggie08 21,522]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Suspected?  It's the same "libertarian" core group that just doesn't want to be labeled as Republicans.  They are one and the same.  All modern "libertarians" are.

So, yeah, Kennedy still polling at >8% scares the shit out of me. Obviously, he won't get that much in November, even if he doesn't drop out, but how many of those come home to daddy Trump after rebelling for a few months?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

Polls take a couple days to do typically.  I bet this is post-assassination bump, not post convention. 

[aggie08 21,522]

Shit, that's pretty much the election right there. How many "libertarians" and independents stick to their guns and vote independent (or at least don't vote for Trump) vs. how many "undecideds" that are pissed that the old fart is the best choice still find the motivation to make it to the polls.

Edited July 19 by aggie08

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Shit, that's pretty much the election right there. How many "libertarians" and independents stick to their guns and vote independent (or at least don't vote for Trump) vs. how many "undecideds" that are pissed that the old fart is the best choice find the motivation to make it to the polls.

You can already feel the shift.  People are actually admitting they’re voting for Trump.  Before many of those were too embarrassed.  Surprised there’s not more panic as we sit around and wait for Joe to come to his senses.  

Edited July 19 by ChiTownDoc

[tx 3 putt 77,320]

 

 

[Js1 85,517]

8 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

You can already feel the shift.  People are actually admitting they’re voting for Trump.  Before many of those were too embarrassed.  Surprised there’s not more panic as we sit around and wait for Joe to come to his senses.  

It’s the same fucking loud minority being as loud as ever. They were loud as fuck in 2020 too

[mchookem 16,365]

i feel like he just watched SotL for the first time six months ago. 

Hopkins is not amused lol

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4778013-trump-hannibal-lecter-anthony-hopkins/

Edited July 19 by mchookem

[troph 24,905]

17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

True.  But suburbs are where elections are won and lost.  City are for the most part all D and we all know what’s up with the country folk.  And no, I don’t have any solutions.  Just know that Joe ain’t that dude…

Shit. Superb sorry. Reasons don’t want to discuss. 

[DixonHur 11,358]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Suspected?  It's the same "libertarian" core group that just doesn't want to be labeled as Republicans.  They are one and the same.  All modern "libertarians" are.

I agree in principle, but I think there are 3 buckets of modern "libertarians".

1. Erstwhile Republicans who don't like Trump
2. Religious zealots who have officially moved to team Trump, but don't consider themselves Republicans
3. and Anarchists

I think the Democrats still have a shot at bucket #1, but who the fuck knows anymore.

[troph 24,905]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It’s the same fucking loud minority being as loud as ever. They were loud as fuck in 2020 too

It’s the suburban “normies” that tend to freak us out the most but they are everywhere. That’s what happens when you create a fictitious enemy. I don’t want millions of criminals being dumped in the US either. 

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

It’s the suburban “normies” that tend to freak us out the most but they are everywhere. That’s what happens when you create a fictitious enemy. I don’t want millions of criminals being dumped in the US either. 

Miami is fun these days.  Seeing the idiot small business owners dying on the vine because their illegal labor dried up thanks to their boy Ronnie D.  Enjoy, assholes.  

[DixonHur 11,358]

1 minute ago, troph said:

That’s what happens when you create a fictitious enemy.

This is true.  But also, simply a byproduct of being human.

There has to be an "other" to remind you why you belong to your group.

Hell, you don't have to look any further than Texas vs aggy, Houston vs Dallas, or any on of the infinite number of ways people separate themselves into groups.

[WhatTheBuck 28,797]

3 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Joe Biden staying in the race and believing he’s the only person that can beat Trump is Trumpian in and of itself and confirmation that MAGA is correct that he has mental decline to not understand his limitations and how seriously flawed he is as a candidate.

That’s not mental decline. That’s just being human. 

[DixonHur 11,358]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Miami is fun these days.  Seeing the idiot small business owners dying on the vine because their illegal labor dried up thanks to their boy Ronnie D.  Enjoy, assholes.  

Yep, these folks think their grocery prices are high now, wait until the faucet of immigrant labor dries up.  Hello, $4 tomatoes.

[Chuckie Finster 22,723]

It's remarkable that so many people have already forgotten what happened in 2020.  The Democratic Primary was an absolute slog, it all just seemed so negative and messy ... and then over the course of about 48 hours, everything crystalized around Biden, the negative vibes were gone from everyone except the most hardcore Bernie supporters, people got excited again, Biden soared in the polls and it snowballed into an 8 month campaign of optimism. 

Everything changed in 48 hours, and all it took was a handful of important people - led by Jim Clyburn - emphatically getting behind Biden.  THE EXACT SAME THING could (and likely would) happen with Kamala if Biden bows out and emphatically endorses her.

This isn't complicated.  There is nothing Biden can do for himself to give the Democratic Party the shot in the arm it sorely needs, but he can absolutely play the 2024 version of Clyburn and fulfill his stated goal of being a transitional president.  Just do it, Joe.

 

[immamac 42,914]

Joe Biden can have the legacy of a great transitional President in a dire time of need in America to defeat fascism or he can have the legacy of being such a fuck up that he packaged it up for the fascist while trying to cling to power. 

[texasdago 7,577]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Yep, these folks think their grocery prices are high now, wait until the faucet of immigrant labor dries up.  Hello, $4 tomatoes.

Kind of like the people who think Texit is a good idea

"but we have oil?"

.and some agriculture, cattle, yes... but we have to get a lot of our other products from other states.  Dumbasses.  

[Mo Horn 8,853]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Joe Biden can have the legacy of a great transitional President in a dire time of need in America to defeat fascism or he can have the legacy of being such a fuck up that he packaged it up for the fascist while trying to cling to power. 

This right here. Imagine if for the last 4 years he accomplished all that he did, but the entire time he included Kamala, and talked about how much influence she had, and how much she contributed to getting things passed. All the while reiterating that he is a transitional president and the last 4 years has made her ready to take on the job. The election would already be over. 

[Schulz2.0 29,006]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

• MI - Whitmer is popular, and the MI GOP is still reeling. (edit-misspelled her name)

At least as of now, you have a sizeable Arab population in Michigan that don't turn out like they did in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/dearborn-michigan-arab-american-community-election

[immamac 42,914]

7 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

This right here. Imagine if for the last 4 years he accomplished all that he did, but the entire time he included Kamala, and talked about how much influence she had, and how much she contributed to getting things passed. All the while reiterating that he is a transitional president and the last 4 years has made her ready to take on the job. The election would already be over. 

Yep. 

[Hank_Hill 18,893]

I don’t think pushing a black woman in 4 months is the auto improvement some of y’all think it is, but put me on team it’s worth a shot 

[immamac 42,914]

2 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

I don’t think pushing a black woman in 4 months is the auto improvement some of y’all think it is, but put me on team it’s worth a shot 

It should have been an orchestrated effort starting 9-12 months ago. Biden should have never been considering 2nd term. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,797]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Wouldn’t shock me at all if it’s a ploy to get paid or get a prominent appointment. 

I wonder if he realizes Trump is likely to renege on whatever promise he makes.

[Sbbruin 21,866]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Like it or not, a significant slice of the Dem base at this point is former center-right Republicans who can’t tolerate the know-nothing populism of the modern GOP.  I was just talking about the RNC with someone who fits that description today. Good luck selling those voters on progressive issues like student loan forgiveness, universal health care, higher capital gains taxes, or universal basic income. 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

I’d just like to see the Democrats go out swinging, if they’re going to go out.  Last time Dems went big on an objectively risky youthful candidate was 2008 and it was among their greatest success stories.  It’s crazy ironic Joe Biden was the super safe VP choice of the most successful President in the 21st century (so far). 

[Hank_Hill 18,893]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

It should have been an orchestrated effort starting 9-12 months ago. Biden should have never been considering 2nd term. 

Agreed, but that didn’t happen and now everyone knows it’s a panic response to a dementia riddled debate performance 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,521]

9 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

At least as of now, you have a sizeable Arab population in Michigan that don't turn out like they did in 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/dearborn-michigan-arab-american-community-election

True that some don't like Biden's stance on Israel/Palestine but their other choice is to actively or passively support Trump who uses Muslim as a slur. Trump will happily send them back if they're immigrants and perhaps even if they're Americans.