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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


bolverk

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4 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But he doesn’t. He literally says “I will fix it.” Democrats don’t say either. Instead they rarely say anything and when they do it’s policy this and program that.

Such bullshit. Dems have actual plans to help the working and middle classes. And they talk about them all of the time. Trump says I will fix everything. He doesn't ever speak directly to anyone other than rich people. Get out of here with this tired bullshit. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Why am I so internally pessimistic about this election?

I get it.  I read this thread and it's comforting, not trying to harsh a good time but I think there is a fair bit of wish-casting going on.  Hope I'm wrong

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48 minutes ago, locodos said:

I get it.  I read this thread and it's comforting, not trying to harsh a good time but I think there is a fair bit of wish-casting going on.  Hope I'm wrong

Read this when you have 15 minutes.  It will make you sober, make you vomit or make you drive to a battleground state and go door to door for Harris and Walz.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/20/us/politics/trump-scandals.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&tgrp=ctr&pvid=E65CE658-FDE0-4E8E-BD5F-7F72157E46BB
 

This immoral, arrogant, dishonest stack of smegma must be deposited in the dustbin of history where he belongs.

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1 minute ago, Bama Llama said:

Read this when you have 15 minutes.  It will make you sober, make you vomit or make you drive to a battleground state and go door to door for Harris and Walz.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/20/us/politics/trump-scandals.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&tgrp=ctr&pvid=E65CE658-FDE0-4E8E-BD5F-7F72157E46BB
 

This immoral, arrogant, dishonest stack of smegma must be deposited in the dustbin of history where he belongs.

I don't need ANY additional motivation.  I've been working on friends and family in swing states.  My point was just that people view the world through their lens.  Those of us that can't imagine even 30% of voters pulling the lever for Trump will tend to view events and data from that perspective. 

apropos of nothing...  I'm in S. Florida and there's a corner near my house that Trumpkins gather waive flags, signs, and I assume shoot puppies.  They've been doing it off and on for YEARS.   Yesterday I was driving by and saw the Trumpkins up ahead at the corner. It seemed like a pretty big group and I was thinking what I always think fuck these assholes and I need to install a hailer on my truck.   When I got closer I could see the flags and they were for Harris / Waltz.  Felt good to see.  But I don't think any Trumpkins will be dissuaded or converted in the same way the Trumpkins only pissed me off.  I'll feel better if there's a fucking blue wave... and whole rafts of Trump enablers and fuckbois are ostracized and mocked openly.

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6 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

Such bullshit. Dems have actual plans to help the working and middle classes1. And they talk about them all of the time2. Trump says I will fix everything3. He doesn't ever speak directly to anyone other than rich people4. Get out of here with this tired bullshit5

@Longhorn94 you seem to hold two views that I don’t think hold up- the first being that the inherent falsity of what Donald Trump says is relevant to his appeal or why it works, and the fact that Democrats have most substantial policy ideas and are relatively far more sincere in their desire for improved conditions makes their call to action more effective for their audience. I disagree with both of those ideas. 

1 -  the middle class standard of living is  now what we used to associate with the working class, and Democrats aren’t addressing that directly. 

2- Democrats talk about their “actual plans” to “help” all the time. It’s policy this and program that. It’s complicated and hard to follow, but if you put in the effort and pay attention you realize that none of it would restore the standard of living to the middle class that it used to have. Instead, they offer “help.” The middle class doesn’t want help or handouts. They want the economy to work for them and put them in a position to save money and go on vacations without taking on a mountain of debt.
 

3- yes, Trump says “I will fix it.” That’s simple,  uncomplicated language. It’s clear, immediate and certain which true or not (obviously not in this case) is the kind of language that enlists people.

4- the people at his rallies are not rich people, but you and I both know that Democrats do small group fundraising dinners and events, and the people who get those invites aren’t managing the fabric store. 

5 I shan’t. 

 

 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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The middle class doesn’t want help or handouts. They want the economy to work for them and put them in a position to save money and go on vacations without taking on a mountain of debt.

Disagree. The middle class is not interested in saving anything and programs and policies don't work because the middle class has a culture problem. Plenty in the middle class could save and build wealth like years past, but they would rather get the giant truck they don't need, the 5000 square foot house they don't need, 3 kids all on travel youth sports teams, etc.

Why save money when that doesn't get any engagement on Instagram?

The middle class struggles because they are stupid with their money. Not because of a lack of opportunities.

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19 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

@Longhorn94 you seem to hold two views that I don’t think hold up- the first being that the inherent falsity of what Donald Trump says is relevant to his appeal or why it works, and the fact that Democrats have most substantial policy ideas and are relatively far more sincere in their desire for improved conditions makes their call to action more effective for their audience. I disagree with both of those ideas. 

1 -  the middle class standard of living is  now what we used to associate with the working class, and Democrats aren’t addressing that directly. 

2- Democrats talk about their “actual plans” to “help” all the time. It’s policy this and program that. It’s complicated and hard to follow, but if you put in the effort and pay attention you realize that none of it would restore the standard of living to the middle class that it used to have. Instead, they offer “help.” The middle class doesn’t want help or handouts. They want the economy to work for them and put them in a position to save money and go on vacations without taking on a mountain of debt.
 

3- yes, Trump says “I will fix it.” That’s simple,  uncomplicated language. It’s clear, immediate and certain which true or not (obviously not in this case) is the kind of language that enlists people.

4- the people at his rallies are not rich people, but you and I both know that Democrats do small group fundraising dinners and events, and the people who get those invites aren’t managing the fabric store. 

5 I shan’t. 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Hawndoh said:

Disagree. The middle class is not interested in saving anything and programs and policies don't work because the middle class has a culture problem. Plenty in the middle class could save and build wealth like years past, but they would rather get the giant truck they don't need, the 5000 square foot house they don't need, 3 kids all on travel youth sports teams, etc.

Why save money when that doesn't get any engagement on Instagram?

The middle class struggles because they are stupid with their money. Not because of a lack of opportunities.

There’s a perception issue, for sure. And I don’t k ow whose fault that is, to be honest. My wife and I are probably too 1-2% of America for combined household income. But it FEELS about like the middle class life we grew up experiencing. Now, I absolutely know it isn’t. But we don’t feel wealthy. A Subaru and a used ford explorer and a 2k square foot house built in the 1960s zoned to a neighborhood where schools get real dicey after elementary doesn’t feel like top 1% of America” to me. 
 

also, both things can be true. People can be stupid with their money and still not want handouts. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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I think I might add that some or a lot of Dem policies really are just band-aids for the economy/middle class.

And maybe they look like handouts, but I think more than handouts, they just feel like stopgaps, even to people who don't understand what is the problem.

To really work for the middle class, Dem programs would need to be more structural, things like Wyden-Bennett and Liz Warren's proposals.

Because it was structural things like repealing Glass-Steagall that got us here.

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