2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

Brisketexan · October 22

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You’re generally a good poster. That’s a really shitty take and you can go fuck yourself.

No, it's the absolutely correct take. If a group of people, in a petulant toddler fit, insist on subjecting the entire country (and indeed the entire world) to the reign of a man bent on our destruction -- AND FUCKING THEIRS -- and he does exactly what he is predicted to do, resulting in hell across the board, including genocide of the very people they claim to be acting on behalf of.....FUCK THEM. THEY DESERVE IT. WHEN YOU VOTE FOR YOUR OWN GENOCIDE, YOU DESERVE IT. HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL TAKE?

NorthLoop · October 22

2 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Are the polls showing she’s losing here in the room with us?

He can't see them because of the chemtrails.

Js1 · October 22

Look, I hate what’s happening in Gaza. I’ve been to Israel, I’m half Jewish, and I fucking hate Israel and Bibi especially.

But what I hate more is people voting against their own interests to own someone. What’s gonna happen in Gaza and in the US under Trump is going to be 100x worse than the last few years under Biden. Guaranteed.

Presidential elections are neither the time nor the place to throw tantrums.

BrickHorn · October 22

Just now, Brisketexan said:

No, it's the absolutely correct take. If a group of people, in a petulant toddler fit, insist on subjecting the entire country (and indeed the entire world) to the reign of a man bent on our destruction -- AND FUCKING THEIRS -- and he does exactly what he is predicted to do, resulting in hell across the board, including genocide of the very people they claim to be acting on behalf of.....FUCK THEM. THEY DESERVE IT. WHEN YOU VOTE FOR YOUR OWN GENOCIDE, YOU DESERVE IT. HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL TAKE?

They aren’t voting for their own genocide, you Reaganist twat. They’re voting AGAINST an administration that has paid for and supported their genocide, betting (maybe wrongly) that change at the top can only improve things.

Helobious · October 22

3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Are the polls showing she’s losing here in the room with us?

6th Street · October 22

31 minutes ago, Helobious said:

The polls have Harris losing, the betting markets have Harris losing, she’s doing dumb shit like going to Houston… a lot of copium being hit around here.

Js1 · October 22

It will be their own genocide if he wins.

bluto · October 22

Which is voting for a guy who has said bibi needs to ‘finish the job’

mdmost · October 22

3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

No. What they see is a genocide that is being supported by the current US administration, and they refuse to support it. I don’t think they’re making the best choice, because I believe Democrats are more likely to come to their senses and rein in Israel. But I also can’t blame them for (a) not voting for the party whose current leader is providing material support to Israel and (b) believing a change will improve the situation.

If you can’t understand why someone might not vote for a party that currently has the power to stop a massacre but is instead paying for it, then you’re a fucking heartless idiot.

Ah yes yes. They see a genocide that Trump also supports and will let Bibi increase if he wins in November so that's a great reason to vote for him. They see a man who has enacted a Muslim ban before and will do again. They see a man who will cut off aid to Palestinians. They see a man that will remove birthright citizenship ship and deport pro-Palestinian protesters. Or I guess they just think he's kidding when he says that. Again, he has a higher approval when he's saying he will do worse things. Make that make sense. Or don't because I really don't fucking care if they purposefully help to get him back in office. Let them enjoy the hell they have unleashed on themselves and the people they care about. They think Gaza is bad now. Just fucking wait.

bluto · October 22

Cmon helob, give me a good “ballgame” to really make me feel like this shit is in the bag.

BrickHorn · October 22

Just now, Js1 said:

But what I hate more is people voting against their own interests to own someone.

This is a judgment call. You and I may disagree with them, but many Muslims believe Trump could not be worse than the current admin (of which Harris is a part). And morally, they can’t pull the lever for someone associated with support for the ongoing slaughter and who did nothing to reach out to them.

It’s entirely defensible and the Harris campaign fucked it up, presumably calculating that the losses of Muslim voters weren’t worth the trade off.

Longhorn_Fan68 · October 22

stupid israel thread is somewhere over there ----->

Js1 · October 22

Just now, BrickHorn said:

but many Muslims believe Trump could not be worse than the current admin

and that’s why I won’t feel sorry for them. Im not doing this anymore. We all disagree with you, and you have a right to your own opinion. That’s still allowed, for now

BrickHorn · October 22

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

It will be their own genocide if he wins.

I tend to agree, but reasonable minds differ. It’s voting against the devil you know and it’s perfectly logical even if the assumptions on which it is based ultimately prove flawed.

mdmost · October 22

Just now, BrickHorn said:

This is a judgment call. You and I may disagree with them, but many Muslims believe Trump could not be worse than the current admin (of which Harris is a part). And morally, they can’t pull the lever for someone associated with support for the ongoing slaughter and who did nothing to reach out to them.

It’s entirely defensible and the Harris campaign fucked it up, presumably calculating that the losses of Muslim voters weren’t worth the trade off.

Fine then don't pull the fucking lever then at all. Sit home and see what happens to you. It's your choice. You make a bold stand that Trump can't be worse. Enjoy the consequences of that action. Kamala cannot change a thing about what's happening in Gaza without losing even more votes. Biden isn't lifting a finger either. Bibi doesn't want peace. Peace doesn't help Trump get elected.

BrickHorn · October 22

Just now, Js1 said:

and that’s why I won’t feel sorry for them.

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

Firemans4Horn · October 22

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

They aren’t voting for their own genocide, you Reaganist twat. They’re voting AGAINST an administration that has paid for and supported their genocide, betting (maybe wrongly) that change at the top can only improve things.

ConferenceRoom · October 22

Just now, BrickHorn said:

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

Js1 is going to be one of the first to go, why the fuck would he feel sorry for them?

Bateshorn · October 22

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Biden isn't lifting a finger either. Bibi doesn't want peace. Peace doesn't help Trump get elected.

I think we can all agree that Biden hasn't done shit to help Harris on anything. He definitely took his ball and went home.

Js1 · October 22

Just now, ConferenceRoom said:

Js1 is going to be one of the first to go, why the fuck would he feel sorry for them?

Yeah, last I checked, a Trump admin isn’t going to be kind to my people either.

TeeDubya · October 22

27 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You just have to say you want a big old glass of Arnold Palmer

Bring me a big, glistening Arnold Palmer…..

aggie08 · October 22

Just now, TeeDubya said:

Bring me a big, glistening Arnold Palmer…..

They do look at me weird when I order a veiny Arnold Palmer. Oh well.

wildcat09 · October 22

5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I tend to agree, but reasonable minds differ. It’s voting against the devil you know and it’s perfectly logical even if the assumptions on which it is based ultimately prove flawed.

No, they don't. Anyone who doesn't think Trump back in office would be a very real and existential danger to Muslim-Americans is not reasonable.

aggie08 · October 22

14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No because I will think of Trump talking about someone's penis when I order it.

I will think of how much Arnold Palmer would have despised that dumb piece of shit and how butthurt Jack must be that Trump didn't tell a similar story about him.

Brisketexan · October 22

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

They aren’t voting for their own genocide, you Reaganist twat. They’re voting AGAINST an administration that has paid for and supported their genocide, betting (maybe wrongly) that change at the top can only improve things.

That is just fucking false. The guy they are voting for is the only POTUS in US history to impose a muslim ban. He has openly stated his support for Bibi going scorched earth in Gaza. If you claim to support muslim rights and Palestinian people at all, you cannot vote for a man who says this:

“When I’m president, we will not allow colleges to be taken over by violent radicals. If you come here from another country and try to bring jihadism, anti-Americanism, or antisemitism to our campuses, we will immediately deport you, you’ll be out of that school.”

“From the start, Harris has worked to tie Israel’s hand behind its back, demanding an immediate ceasefire, always demanding ceasefire,” Trump said at the event just a few hours after his press conference, adding that it “would only give Hamas time to regroup and launch a new October 7 style attack.”

“I will give Israel the support that it needs to win but I do want them to win fast,” Trump added.

Labeling pro-Palestinian protesters against Israel as “pro-Hamas thugs” and “jihad sympathizers,” Trump threatened to arrest and deport them from the US if he returns to the White House.

Trump’s estimation of the real estate potential of the Gaza Strip echoes that of his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who said in an interview with the faculty chair of Harvard’s Middle East Initiative in February that “Gaza’s waterfront property could be very valuable.” Kushner also suggested that, if he were in charge, he would “try to move people” from Rafah, in the south of Gaza, into the Negev desert, “so you can go in and finish the job” of eliminating Hamas.

Fucking hell. The fucking suicidal idiocy. It's not about opting for a better choice. It's about punishing EVERYONE ELSE ON EARTH if they don't get their way. It's pulling the cord on an electoral suicide vest, and it's terrorism by ballot. Fuck them all.

Bateshorn · October 22

Just now, wildcat09 said:

No, they don't. Anyone who doesn't think Trump back in office would be a very real and existential danger to Muslim-Americans is not reasonable.

There is a very real thing going on in politics right now where voters who should know better are telling themselves "Yes he'll be bad, but it won't happen to me.....hur dur....Inflation....Trump" It's wild, but also your talking about people who couldn't answer a Tonight Show current events quiz but care enough to vote.

Reynolds Woodcock · October 22

32 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

the polls that are skewing the numbers towards Trump are all GOP friendly and the betting markets showing Trump leading are seeing big money thrown in by big GOP supporters. and the GOP is now telling us that the machines are rigged bc they're flipping Trump votes to Harris. see a pattern? the GOP needs to convince America that Trump is winning this thing bigly heading into November 5 based on the polls and betting markets. and when he starts getting crushed on November 5, he can say, "See, the Dems are cheating. I had this thing locked up. The machines are flipping votes. Rigged rigged rigged!"

i'll trust Harris's internals suggesting that she can spare a night in Houston than the polls and betting markets.

You made me think of this recent New Yorker cartoon

safe sex · October 22

Biden has been campaigning for Harris. Not a ton, because he's ancient and declining, but he's been out there especially in PA. If you were in the media, who would you want to cover? A largely irrelevant POTUS, or any of the many dynamic campaigners that Harris has working for her right now?

BrickHorn · October 22

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

No, they don't. Anyone who doesn't think Trump back in office would be a very real and existential danger to Muslim-Americans is not reasonable.

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue.

G650 · October 22

13 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

reasonable minds differ.

100% no.

LCHorn · October 22

12 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.

Edited October 22 by LCHorn

wildcat09 · October 22

11 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

There is a very real thing going on in politics right now where voters who should know better are telling themselves "Yes he'll be bad, but it won't happen to me.....hur dur....Inflation....Trump" It's wild, but also your talking about people who couldn't answer a Tonight Show current events quiz but care enough to vote.

I mean, I kind of get it from center-rightish lifelong Republican voters who think they'll get a bunch of policies they like and however awful he makes things for others, well, that's just not something they're going to see themselves. But if you're a Muslim or Latino American? His supporters are putting fucking kill lists together with you and your families on them! You're their first target, even before Jews! Fucking think about that! They hate you even more than they hate Jews. And SCOTUS just effectively gave Trump absolutely immunity (and previously upheld the Muslim ban). How the fuck do you think they're NOT going to be a real threat to you?

Edited October 22 by wildcat09

BrickHorn · October 22

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fucking hell. The fucking suicidal idiocy. It's not about opting for a better choice.

You and everyone else debating me on this assume that your judgment call (which I share) is necessarily correct. It’s not and the opposite argument is defensible morally and logically, even though I tend to think it’s wrong.

chainsaw · October 22

42 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Remember, they did media studies that the more negative she went on Trump, the more it hurt her numbers. Voters responded way better to her positive ads.

This is what I've been saying! Normal people have learned to stop giving Trump attention, both positive and negative. She should be shouting from rooftops about olds no longer being stuffed in nursing homes, and for some reason she has not been.

Bateshorn · October 22

4 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue.

If Trump wins, and the Isrealis begin to carpet bomb Gaza and Southern Lebanon, while accelerating land seizures in the West Bank, this post is going to age very, very poorly.

Edited October 22 by Bateshorn

Bozo_Casanova · October 22

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

This board:

She's focusing on the states that matter! She's not dumb like Hillary!

She's leaving the states that matter! She knows it's in the bag!

Username checks out

36 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

2. Trump wins, and society becomes completely broken for at least a generation if not more. The "civil war" won't be an actual war,

Not sure about this. The civil Cold War is well underway and skirmishes happen all the time. The question is whether it goes hot. I don’t think it’s out of the question that a red state governor with large blue cities would deploy their highway departments as police forces when cities don’t bend to their will or deploy their national guards in the event of peaceful, non-riot, non-mass protest community resistance. I don’t think it’s out of the question that travel between cities and states could become something we can’t take for granted.

To me clear- I am not saying that this happens if Trump wins, or that Trump losing even makes this less likely. I am saying that history suggests our current trend is towards division and chaotic fragmentation.

Edited October 22 by Bozo_Casanova

Js1 · October 22

I’m also tired of being told I should have sympathy for a group that is voting for my community to become third class citizens and stripped of the right to marry, adopt kids and should be classified as mentally ill or pedophiles

Hank Kingsley · October 22

14 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

There are a lot of desperate people in this country that are not Arab-American who understandably feel they will end up hurt with a Trump administration.

Aqua Buddha · October 22

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

If Trump wins, and the Isrealis begin to carpet bombing Gaza and Southern Lebanon, while accelerating land seizures in the West Bank, this post is going to age very, very poorly.

Before they do that, Trump will round up Muslims here, put them in actual camps, and then ship them to Gaza.

Then Bibi will level the place.

Tuco · October 22

For what it's worth, reporting on the Arab News/Yougov poll can found on Arab News and a ton of media outlets. Where you can't find it is on YouGov. I'm guessing the partnership did not include YouGov designing the survey and they aren't keen to publish it it under their name. (Or maybe they are still cleaning up the report before publication.)

BrickHorn · October 22

Just now, LCHorn said:

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.

They’re not voting out or petulance, unless you think desperation to try anything to end the massacre of their friends and family is “petulant.” This isn’t a fucking tantrum. It’s a direct response to policy choices by the administration that resulted in the displacement and death of thousands of their fellow Muslims.

Jesus fucking Christ. How hard is it to understand that genocide is a serious issue and it’s not childish to take a moral stand against it (even if that requires making risky trade offs)?

I’ve had these conversations with Muslim friends who are far from petulant or unreasonable. Their decision to withhold support from Kamala or even vote Trump are measured and account for the risks and tradeoffs. Which is a lot more than I can say for the knee jerk reaction of the head-in-sand crew on this thread.

chainsaw · October 22

1 minute ago, LCHorn said:

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.

Those numbers are horseshit, but remember that stupidity and reactionary impulses are not cured simply by being a member of a persecuted group. On top of that, there's plenty of Muslim Americans who hate Gaza and Lebanon for reasons that make sense only to them. I mean, for Christ's sake, Christian Walker exists.

wildcat09 · October 22

9 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue.

First, that's not really accurate. That money was appropriated by Congress and there's no chance in hell you'd get this Congress to strip the funding, given that the GOP controls the House.

Second, and more importantly, even if we stopped all support Bibi would still be carrying out his genocide. He's not Biden's puppet and Biden has spent a year trying to rein him in. Not trying hard enough, no, but his failings are in his outdated understanding of Israel and the US/Israel alliance, not in a desire to see Palestinians annihilated. Trump will gleefully encourage Bibi to exterminate every last Palestinian and he'll deport Palestinian-Americans to give Bibi more to slaughter. There's no reasonable argument that Trump won't be an exponentially larger threat to Muslims both here and throughout the world.

Edited October 22 by wildcat09

pantone159 · October 22

20 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

They aren’t voting for their own genocide, you Reaganist twat. They’re voting AGAINST an administration that has paid for and supported their genocide, betting (maybe wrongly) that change at the top can only improve things.

But they ARE voting for their own genocide (if they do indeed vote for Trump). They may THINK that they are just voting against an administration that (rightly) is allowing Israel to run rampant, but IN FACT they will be voting for a policy that will be EXPLICITY genocide.

Todd Gack · October 22

18 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

No. What they see is a slaughter that is being supported by the current US administration, and they refuse to support it. I don’t think they’re making the best choice, because I believe Democrats are more likely to come to their senses and rein in Israel. But I also can’t blame them for (a) not voting for the party whose current leader is providing material support to Israel and (b) believing a change will improve the situation, because it’s already as bad as it can get.

If you can’t understand why someone might not vote for a party that currently has the power to stop a massacre but is instead paying for it, then you’re a fucking heartless idiot.

Generally agree, but I think the bolded part is very hard to have faith in seeing as the current VP evidently cannot (or doesn't care enough to) rein in her senile boss enough to stop sending weapons to aid in a genocide. I mean, yeah there's *some* glimmer of hope that the Dems will tire of seeing dead children on social media and tell Bibi to get fucked, but it's hard to vote based on a glimmer. Of course the other side is a damn-near guarantee that the suffering will continue so voting for the fascists makes zero sense. Maybe the bad poll numbers are just very angry people venting and they'll come to their senses or at least stay home on voting day.

Foosters · October 22

Just now, BrickHorn said:

I’ve had these conversations with Muslim friends who are far from petulant or unreasonable. Their decision to withhold support from Kamala or even vote Trump are measured and account for the risks and tradeoffs. Which is a lot more than I can say for the knee jerk reaction of the head-in-sand crew on this thread.

Then please share their measured analysis on the "risks and tradeoffs." Since we're missing the calculated political analysis involved while we wail and whine.

Pato del Muerto · October 22

6 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue.

The previous, and proposed admin has said they will increase funding and support, which Israel will use to intensify their massacre. This isn’t some sort of Sophie’s choice. It’s bad but negotiable vs worse and hardline. Choose worse and you reap what you sow.

aggie08 · October 22

2 minutes ago, Todd Gack said:

Generally agree, but I think the bolded part is very hard to have faith in seeing as the current VP evidently cannot (or doesn't care enough to) rein in her senile boss enough to stop sending weapons to aid in a genocide. I mean, yeah there's *some* glimmer of hope that the Dems will tire of seeing dead children on social media and tell Bibi to get fucked, but it's hard to vote based on a glimmer. Of course the other side is a damn-near guarantee that the suffering will continue so voting for the fascists makes zero sense. Maybe the bad poll numbers are just very angry people venting and they'll come to their senses or at least stay home on voting day.

Your contention is that Kamala should have been trying harder to convince Biden to halt all weapons to Israel? And you want her to win the election? Because those two thoughts are completely incongruous.

We'll see what her actions are as POTUS, but, right now, she has absolutely no choice but to walk the tight rope.

Pancho · October 22

one of the most annoying things when Blacks talk about racism to non-Blacks is the non-Black person insisting something isn’t racist when the Black person is sitting there telling you “YES, SHEILA, IT IS RACIST” and they keep responding with “no it’s not”

BrickHorn · October 22

2 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

But they ARE voting for their own genocide (if they do indeed vote for Trump). They may THINK that they are just voting against an administration that (rightly) is allowing Israel to run rampant, but IN FACT they will be voting for a policy that will be EXPLICITY genocide.

You say this and I tend to agree that a second Trump term will be far more dangerous to minorities. I’m terrified of it.

But consider the other perspective: the current administration is provably a disaster for Muslims in Gaza. Meanwhile, Trump was president for four years and his anti-Muslim rhetoric ultimately amounted to ineffective bluster.

If you’re a Muslim-American who survived the Trump presidency (despite facing frightening rhetoric and policy proposals) but whose friends or family did not survive the Biden term, which one do you view as the greater threat?

I think they’re discounting the risk of Trump, but I can understand why they might make that analytical mistake.

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