2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Chopper 16045]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait, Trump is accusing someone of lacking the guts to go fight?  That's rich.

1 on 9. 9 on 1 is the only way the dotard would fight and he'd hide around a corner.

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I know this is hard for progressives to accept, but the problem is that Trump's real core supports do not benefit from any of the positive consequences of a Harris presidency, in the same way they didn't benefit from the economic recovery under Biden or really any of the prosperity of the last 30 years. They are mad about it, and rightfully so. They don't think Trump will make it better and they don't give a fuck. Trump is revenge on the winners. 

WHAT? They may not know how they benefitted but they benefitted among the highest levels. They're just too ignorant to understand how. 

 

Anyway

[Gatorubet 29471]

This is a blurb from an article I found in the Nation. 

Quote

Progress Action Fund has released an incendiary ad on social media that opens with a young couple making love. The condom breaks and so the young man goes to bathroom to get Plan B, but he’s stopped by a Republican congressman who says that contraceptives are now illegal and he should prepare to become a “daddy.” A similar ad from the group warns of the dangers of pornography being outlawed. A parallel campaign warning of Trump’s subservience to the social conservatism of Project 2025 and its goal of outlawing porn is targeting viewers of adult websites.

While black women voting may save us this round, there is another group of heroes doing their work silently, a group under-appreciated and voting for Harris

. 

[Chopper 16045]

3 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I completely accept that. It basically what made me a leftist in 2016 and why I want things like UBI and Medicare for all. 

Maybe I missed the sarcasm but if so the "rightfully so" threw me. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19223]

53 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  Like you can go TWICE at your age.

 

30 seconds of sweet, sweet love, and three minutes of apologizing. 

[BrickHorn 18005]

13 minutes ago, Pancho said:

His surrogates were doing a rough—and I mean rough—job of cleaning this up this morning because you can’t defend it

 

“the guts”

[Valmy77 12596]

1 minute ago, Chopper said:

Maybe I missed the sarcasm but if so the "rightfully so" threw me. 

Reaganomics and neo-liberalism alienated a bunch of people. That is what has led to the rise of right wing reactionary politics. Along with all these dangerous oligarchs we now have to contend with. We need to fight this crisis with a return to New-Deal era type policies or it will only get worse.

[Chopper 16045]

the view from Europe

Meanwhile 2/3 of Israelis favor Trump and to Israelis I say, from a Jew, go fuck yourselves. 

[Brisketexan 103353]

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Trump's real core supports do not benefit from any of the positive consequences of a Harris presidency

They feel like they don't.  But they're fucking wrong.

Just one easy example: rural broadband.  That's a Biden-Harris issue, not a Trump one.

Another easy example: massive reinvestment in manufacturing (see chip production).  A shitload of those jobs are perfect for the Trumpy class.

They still have things that Trump and Project 2025 want to fucking take away (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.).

They don't SEE anything because they don't look for shit except what's on their chosen platforms.  

And the hell of it is, there is no way to ever, ever get them to see.  They won't look.  They can't look.  We just have to fucking do what we can with their idiocy dragging us down.

[Valmy77 12596]

Yep. We are coming for them with higher paying jobs and services and they are just going to have to suck it up and take it.

[Js1 82702]

13 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Redfield & Wilton - the Tory polilng company. 

[Francisco 2.0 31672]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They don't SEE anything because they don't look for shit except what's on their chosen platforms.  

And the hell of it is, there is no way to ever, ever get them to see.  They won't look.  They can't look.  We just have to fucking do what we can with their idiocy dragging us down.

 

They don't want to look.

 

[The Hot Dog Buffet 1258]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They feel like they don't.  But they're fucking wrong.

Just one easy example: rural broadband.  That's a Biden-Harris issue, not a Trump one.

Another easy example: massive reinvestment in manufacturing (see chip production).  A shitload of those jobs are perfect for the Trumpy class.

They still have things that Trump and Project 2025 want to fucking take away (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.).

They don't SEE anything because they don't look for shit except what's on their chosen platforms.  

And the hell of it is, there is no way to ever, ever get them to see.  They won't look.  They can't look.  We just have to fucking do what we can with their idiocy dragging us down.

Sure, but the biggest benefit to a Harris presidency over Trump for most people is that the market probably continues growing at its current pace with Harris, and likely retracts under Trump. And unless the typical Trump voter is going to start acting like a responsible adult and investing, that simply won't affect them.

Edit: Biggest economic benefit, anyway.

Edited 5 hours ago by The Hot Dog Buffet

[Chopper 16045]

1 minute ago, Valmy77 said:

Reaganomics and neo-liberalism alienated a bunch of people. That is what has led to the rise of right wing reactionary politics. Along with all these dangerous oligarchs we now have to contend with. We need to fight this crisis with a return to New-Deal era type policies or it will only get worse.

Yes but actually benefitting versus not understanding how you're benefitting are 2 different things. The second is delusionary and unreasonable. 

[flatdawgs 1227]

55 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mentioned this before, but it's actually a real-deal, and how we should look at our fellow human beings as an asset, not a liability.

The boy has lived overseas in the UK and Germany the past several years.  When he was home for Xmas this last year, as we were running errands on N. Lamar, he sighed and commented "man...I really miss mexicans.  It's just something I grew up so used to, and you really notice their absence over there."  He went on to talk about how it wasn't just the food, it was the vibe.  Generally happy folks, often going to or from working hard.  Just, literally, the kinds of attitudes and behaviors you WANT to see in your neighbors.

A generation ago, we would describe someone wearing work boots and a hard hat from sunup to sundown during the week, then having a backyard bbq with lots of family and friends, as the ideal American.  Now.....we hate him, because he's brown and speaks spanish.  WTF?  Hispanics are great Americans.  They are, quite often, the best of us.

This is why, at our best, there is no place like the US in the world. Should I decide to stay here, that's a huge reason why (along with the natural beauty here). Just take food - you may be in a place somewhere else in the world that has a simply astounding cuisine; there are many of those of course. But, when you're there, that's pretty much all you're gonna get. Theyve been doing it for thousands of years and it's exquisite, but that's the bulk of your options. Here even smaller cities and big towns have a diversity of choice that only the biggest cities elsewhere in the world can try to match. That goes along with the diversity of our people, which is the greatest thing we offer the world. To hell with all of these people trying to destroy that.

Plus we have Chili's. And/or Bennigans.

[Js1 82702]

19 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

But here we are pissing down our legs about the Presidential.  American's haven't ticket split like that since the 80s. 

I have been on the record that everything is going to go one way, for the most part.  There will be some ticket splitting for incumbents like Tester/Brown and some challengers, like Allred and DMP, because Cruz and Scott are not well liked.

What it feels like, to me, is they're polling, finding House Dems/Senate Dems up, but then adjusting topline numbers only for the presidential race.  Like if you poll Arizona, and find Gallego up 8, and Harris up 3-4, it feels like they're fudging the top line to get the presidential result they want. 

Ticket splitting isn't rare, but it's not going to be this massive thing where Gallego, Rosen, Casey, Slotkin and Baldwin all win and Trump wins those states.  The only possible state that should see legit ticket splits are Montana, Ohio and NC GOV. 

[Brisketexan 103353]

1 minute ago, flatdawgs said:

Plus we have Chili's. And/or Bennigans.

[tx 3 putt 74835]

19 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

 

[Tuco 5018]

His surrogates were doing a rough—and I mean rough—job of cleaning this up this morning because you can’t defend it
 

I’ll give it a B+ for pivoting to Cheney’s Mideast policy. Getting Liz’s and Dick’s endorsements may help with some Republicans, but it’s a bit dicey for progressives, isolationists, and Muslims. I’m sure his handlers would rather be having that discussion rather than the one about whether Trump is calling for Cheney’s execution.

[tx 3 putt 74835]

2 minutes ago, flatdawgs said:

This is why, at our best, there is no place like the US in the world. Should I decide to stay here, that's a huge reason why (along with the natural beauty here). Just take food - you may be in a place somewhere else in the world that has a simply astounding cuisine; there are many of those of course. But, when you're there, that's pretty much all you're gonna get. Theyve been doing it for thousands of years and it's exquisite, but that's the bulk of your options. Here even smaller cities and big towns have a diversity of choice that only the biggest cities elsewhere in the world can try to match. That goes along with the diversity of our people, which is the greatest thing we offer the world. To hell with all of these people trying to destroy that.

Plus we have Chili's. And/or Bennigans.

[Chopper 16045]

NYT update. At the top of the homepage but with a new, possibly dumber headline. 

[Macanudo 12664]

18 minutes ago, Chopper said:

1 on 9. 9 on 1 is the only way the dotard would fight and he'd hide around a corner.

WHAT? They may not know how they benefitted but they benefitted among the highest levels. They're just too ignorant to understand how. 

 

Anyway

I think what you meant to say is:

"And in tonight's production of Saving Private Ryan, the role of Corporal Upham will be played by Donald Trump."

[Pancho 41948]

Not a fan of what the Arizona AG is doing. Just leave it alone and let him hang himself.

[safe sex 11562]

11 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yep. We are coming for them with higher paying jobs and services and they are just going to have to suck it up and take it.

Take care of 'em whether they like it or not

[tx 3 putt 74835]

anyone following the stephen miller melt down ?

 

[Bozo_Casanova 25600]

18 minutes ago, Chopper said:

23 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

WHAT? They may not know how they benefitted but they benefitted among the highest levels. They're just too ignorant to understand how. 

Well I'm reasonably good on econ and I disagree, but that doesn't matter. What's important is that they disagree. And if you think that's because they're too stupid evaluate their own lived experience, you should move to Washington DC and join a Democrat-aligned messaging firm, because you will fit right in. 

[Evil Bill Obrien 2874]

12 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yep. We are coming for them with higher paying jobs and services and they are just going to have to suck it up and take it.

The thing with the Trumpkin supporters/GOP is they never seem to have a problem cashing in on all the wonderful benefits and services provided by the government or Democrat policies, its just they don't want anyone else to see any benefits, just them. "Fuck you, I got mine" to a T.

[immamac 41459]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Not a fan of what the Arizona AG is doing. Just leave it alone and let him hang himself.

 

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

anyone following the stephen miller melt down ?

 

what's going on with these 2 situations?

[HenryJames 65086]

1 minute ago, tx 3 putt said:

anyone following the stephen miller melt down ?

 

He see an hispanic in the wild?

[Brisketexan 103353]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

And if you think that's because they're too stupid evaluate their own lived experience, you should move to Washington DC and join a Democrat-aligned messaging firm, because you will fit right in. 

Naah.  I've just been in the persuasion game long enough to learn that you don't convince "stupid" with facts and logic.  You slather on the irrelevant bullshit.  The more dishonest/disingenuous, the better.

TLDR; Dems need to learn to lie to the idiot class as well as the GQP lies to them.  Lies are all they want to hear, lies are all that moves the needle, so fucking LIE TO THEM.

[wildcat09 28415]

I'm curious what year Bozo is suddenly posting from.  Trump's core supporters aren't white working class who've been left behind by outsourcing manufacturing jobs. His core supporters are the American gentry. They're people who hate seeing America become friendlier to minorities and LGBTQ and hate seeing employees with any bargaining power to speak of. They've materially benefitted from Democratic administrations, probably even moreso than from GOP tax cuts, but they feel like they're losing power and social standing and that's more important to them.  

[Gatorubet 29471]

2 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

anyone following the stephen miller melt down ?

 

 

1 minute ago, immamac said:

 

what's going on with these 2 situations?

How would anyone know that Squidward is melting down?   Every time I see him he’s angrily blabbing about something.

['stache 21514]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well I'm reasonably good on econ and I disagree, but that doesn't matter. What's important is that they disagree. And if you think that's because they're too stupid evaluate their own lived experience, you should move to Washington DC and join a Democrat-aligned messaging firm, because you will fit right in. 

How the fuck do you suggest "messaging" something to people who are immune to truth or basic understanding? By every fucking metric republicans have used to measure "the economy" for decades we've been under historic highs under Biden. The opposite has occurred under republican administrations. Is it seriously you're belief that the party that complains constantly about "free stuff" is going to change "teams" by getting free stuff? They just get distracted by trans people and illegal immigrants and whatever the next stupid wedge issue is that they put out there. That's why they are called wedge issues, they distract stupid people from seeing anything else. 

[heso 2561]

33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I know this is hard for progressives to accept, but the problem is that Trump's real core supports do not benefit from any of the positive consequences of a Harris presidency, in the same way they didn't benefit from the economic recovery under Biden or really any of the prosperity of the last 30 years. They are mad about it, and rightfully so. They don't think Trump will make it better and they don't give a fuck. Trump is revenge on the winners. 

I agree with almost all of that, except for not thinking Trump will fix it. The true believers absolutely Trump will fix all of their problems. 

[Surly Bevo 24286]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

Can you guess who this new report from NBC is about?

The PAC denied that ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE. Well, okay then.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/elon-musks-high-stakes-trump-door-knocking-effort-america-pac-rcna176255

The grifters are being grifted

[Brisketexan 103353]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

He see an hispanic in the wild?

God....I hope that someday he does.  AND, I hope they treat him EXACTLY how he says hispanics in the US treat people like him.

[Gatorubet 29471]

1 minute ago, Surly Bevo said:

The grifters are being grifted

that Elmo is paying for the grift is just chefs kiss

[tx 3 putt 74835]

 

[Bozo_Casanova 25600]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They feel like they don't.  But they're fucking wrong.

Just one easy example: rural broadband.  That's a Biden-Harris issue, not a Trump one.

Another easy example: massive reinvestment in manufacturing (see chip production).  A shitload of those jobs are perfect for the Trumpy class.

They still have things that Trump and Project 2025 want to fucking take away (SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.).

They don't SEE anything because they don't look for shit except what's on their chosen platforms.  

And the hell of it is, there is no way to ever, ever get them to see.  They won't look.  They can't look.  We just have to fucking do what we can with their idiocy dragging us down.

You should go door to door and tell them that. And you do, consider, who signed the repeal of Glass Steagal? Who implemented NAFTA? Who implemented TARP? Who made the decision not to break anybody up or prosecute the leadership of firms that created the financial crisis? Who signed the bill that made the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent? Who declined to sever the connection between healthcare and employment insurance? Hey, who was married to the guy who signed the repeal of Glass Steagal? Oh, right. The 2016 Democratic Nominee. Who authored and co-sponsored the 2005 bankruptcy bill that stripped protections from millions and unleashed a wash of private student loans? The 2020 Democratic Nominee.
Here's a famous chart - did the trendline change when Democrats were in power?

 

 

I'm all in on defeating Trump and Trumpism, but the idea that Democrats have been champions of the American middle class over the last 30 years is utter horseshit.  

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Bozo_Casanova

[heso 2561]

34 minutes ago, Chopper said:

1 on 9. 9 on 1 

9 to 1, 5 to 1, close enough. 
 

The old get old
And the young get stronger
May take a week
And it may take longer
They got the guns
But we got the numbers
Gonna win, yeah, we're takin' over

[TexasHooch 4956]

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

 

what's going on with these 2 situations?

No shit. I appreciate that this thread moves at the speed of a game thread, but we're not all watching the same shit.  A little content and context is appreciated.

[Js1 82702]

1 minute ago, TexasHooch said:

No shit. I appreciate that this thread moves at the speed of a game thread, but we're not all watching the same shit.  A little content and context is appreciated.

Even I don’t know 

[Francisco 2.0 31672]

15 minutes ago, immamac said:

 

what's going on with these 2 situations?

 

Miller, I have no idea.

The Arizona AG is... well, why not just keep your powder dry until next Wednesday:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/arizona-ags-office-probing-trumps-violent-comments-liz-cheney-rcna178228

Quote

Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes said Friday that her office is investigating whether former President Donald Trump’s violent remarks about former GOP Rep. Liz Cheney broke the law.

“I have already asked my criminal division chief to start looking at that statement, analyzing it for whether it qualifies as a death threat under Arizona’s laws,” Mayes, a Democrat, said during a taping of “Sunday Square Off” on 12NEWS in Phoenix.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Francisco 2.0

[Irwin F Fletcher 3541]

50 minutes ago, Pancho said:

His surrogates were doing a rough—and I mean rough—job of cleaning this up this morning because you can’t defend it

 

That's not written by Donald. He has know idea what the word decimated means.

[BurntOrange&White 38748]

What’s going on with the chilis 3 for me situation?

 

[TexasHooch 4956]

I did a Google search for Miller's meltdown, and there were about 7 different instances of it happening, but none within the last day.

Edited 4 hours ago by TexasHooch

[Bozo_Casanova 25600]

 

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm curious what year Bozo is suddenly posting from.  Trump's core supporters aren't white working class who've been left behind by outsourcing manufacturing jobs. His core supporters are the American gentry. They're people who hate seeing America become friendlier to minorities and LGBTQ and hate seeing employees with any bargaining power to speak of. They've materially benefitted from Democratic administrations, probably even moreso than from GOP tax cuts, but they feel like they're losing power and social standing and that's more important to them.  

There aren't enough American gentry. They are among his financial supporters, but a relatively small fraction of his voting coalition. His core supporters are lower middle and middle class people who feel the system is rigged against them, because the system is rigged against them. Prior to the 1990s Democrats recognized that and worked to give those people the tools to fight back. In the 1990s Democrats shifted focus, as parties do, which left those people without much representation outside of certain inidividual members of congress. They were up for grabs and Trump found them when he went looking for an audience. 

[pacman 7220]

I am ready to call it for Harris.

[Surly Bevo 24286]

6 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

I mean it make sense.  Recent history has taught the media, pollsters etc that being "wrong" about Trump in any way that is perceived as negative comes with consequences and backlash. Now couple that with outright rhetoric that anybody who doesn't support him may be pursued.  On the other hand they have been taught that the Democratic party is generally going to forgive and forget.  Machiavelli wasn't just whistling dixie.  

[Tuco 5018]

You should go door to door and tell them that. And you do, consider, who signed the repeal of Glass Steagal? Who implemented NAFTA? Who implemented TARP? Who made the decision not to break anybody up or prosecute the leadership of firms that created the financial crisis? Who signed the bill that made the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent? Who declined to sever the connection between healthcare and employment insurance? Hey, who was married to the guy who signed the repeal of Glass Steagal? Oh, right. The 2016 Democratic Nominee. Who authored and co-sponsored the 2005 bankruptcy bill that stripped protections from millions and unleashed a wash of private student loans? The 2020 Democratic Nominee.
Here's a famous chart - did the trendline change when Democrats were in power?

 
 
I'm all in on defeating Trump and Trumpism, but the idea that Democrats have been champions of the American middle class over the last 30 years is utter horseshit.  
 
 

I feel like you are reposting this from a couple hundred pages ago. On how many of those issues did the Democrats compromise the final position, but were coming at it from the direction you are advocating? Are you arguing against Democratic policy, or the inevitable consequence of not being able to magically implement it? And there is no NAFTA; Trump negotiated its replacement. (I wish Dems were better at messaging that.)

[Js1 82702]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I mean it make sense.  Recent history has taught the media, pollsters etc that being "wrong" about Trump in any way that is perceived as negative comes with consequences and backlash. Now couple that with outright rhetoric that anybody who doesn't support him may be pursued.  On the other hand they have been taught that the Democratic party is generally going to forgive and forget.  Machiavelli wasn't just whistling dixie.  

Yep. That’s how I read it. Also it’s a “this is my vibe and it’s not matching”