2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[G650 14235]

The thing is there is a third group that genuinely don't get it. I know that it's seems logically impossible, but it absolutely exists.

[UTGrad98 2271]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

For the women, it’s the attitude and the accent. French women are all-timers.

 

Back in the day I'd watch French news almost daily for my Melissa here and didn't understand a single thing

[Biff Tannen 45665]

42 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Where did I say that every Trump supporter has no integrity or morals? Hint.  I didn't.

Um, I’ll say that. 

[quigley 1559]

8 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Of course it isn't all that have no morals or values, but I do believe that every single trump supporter in 2024 is deficient in judgement, and has something wrong with them that would bring them to support the closest thing we've seen to 21st century Nazism. To support the hate filled rhetoric alone is deficient in values to some extent. Add on top the authoritarianism and blatant violation of the law/coup attempts and there's no way any completely sane, reasonable person would support this. 

I disagree with Quigley about being able to trust anyone like that. I no longer trust any trump supporter, even in my own family. I get along with them and don't start any issues, but deep down I can never trust them for anything again. If my daughters were still small kids I'd never trust them to care for them again. That's for sure. Luckily I don't have any of them in my lab, but if I did I'd watch them like a hawk and no benefit of the doubt would be given to improprieties. 

Of course I didn't say or even assume all. And I agree, by definition, if they vote for Trump, they have poor political judgement.

I cabin my trust of everyone. I can trust some people with some things and other people with others. I have a sliding scale. Regarding your specific example of child care, I don't think being a Trump support eliminates your ability to care for children. We've had people I assume are Trump supports care for our daughter.

[safe sex 11696]

Trump is absolutely not disgusted by plastic surgery. He's only disgusted by knowing it's plastic surgery

Edited November 2 by safe sex

[Ted Lange 16084]

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

Someone, eventually, is going to realize that more Americans want actual news than infotainment, and they will emerge and crush the current mainstream crap

[jimmyjazz 45887]

When I scroll down through the montage of those four French actresses, my reaction at every photo is "I'm not sure it could get any hotter than that", four times in a row.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

53 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

you forgot retirement benefits/pension protections and workplace safety.  
 

OSHA doesn’t exist without strong union lobbying for those protections, neither does the Jones Act.  

Interesting that you bring up the Jones Act. Both it and FELA (railroad workers) actually preceded most organized labor eg AFL-CIO and NLRA in the US. 

Government actually has legitimate role in these things that has been largely abdicated. 

 

[Hermanator 7032]

5 minutes ago, Homercles said:

There’s an episode of MST3k called Boggy Creek 2, filmed in Arkansas probably mid-90’s.  There’s a scene where the protagonists go into some general store and half the riffs sound familiar today:

”it’s the welfare moms sucking us dry”

”liberal!”

”want to contribute to our fund for the war against northern aggression?”

”want this on your klan account?”

Those deplorables have always been there, they just finally had a public figure that ‘made it ok’ to say the quiet parts out loud.  

I do think we should bring back "deplorables" and make that their scarlet letter. It's the perfect designation for these people. 

While I don't think every single person who supported trump garbage in 2016 is deplorable, I 100 percent believe every single person who still does in 2024 is. 

[Biff Tannen 45665]

5 minutes ago, Pancho said:

He’s appalled by plastic surgery?  Stormy Daniels says hi. 

5 minutes ago, G650 said:

The thing is there is a third group that genuinely don't get it. I know that it's seems logically impossible, but it absolutely exists.

And those are the ones too stupid to live. 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

He’s appalled by plastic surgery?  Stormy Daniels says hi. 

[G650 14235]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

And those are the ones too stupid to live. 

I mean that's great to say and all, but do you also say that about people with autism? ADHD? Substance abuse illness? Other behavioral and cognitive disorders?

[InkaUtexas 25861]

@Brisketexan is right on.

So many Trump voters have their reasons. And 90% of the time it is not racist. It is personnel gain. I was working in an office of them. The owner's issue was border security, flood of the state of texas by brown people, BLM burning down the nation, etc. Go on down to the receptionist. It was taxes, rise of food prices, etc. Meanwhile I had the shittiest car in the lot (pretty damn nice Classic Cherokee), brought in my lunch (they were all off to get fast food), and dressed well (knock off T-shirts were allowed). Daughter was one of the worst. It is SOOOO HARDDDD as she takes the company RV to ACL and is mad cuz her mommies G-Wagon could not be parked in the shade.

My favorite was the retired US Army Major. Her husband took a cooshy contractor gig in Iraq. She was complaining about the cost of childcare so the only thing she could do was get an Au Pair. From where? COLOMBIA..... Why I asked, well all the whites around here are methheads. But yep, going to vote Hard R and it is the rise of Hispanics to blame. She gave me an ugly look when I spoke Spanish to our HR person (Costa Rican from Cali) and joked well guess she needed to learn so she could speak to the help. I had to walk outside after that one.

They loved to brag about all the guns they have. How they had already started planning at their gated communities on how they would guard the front gate. How many tons of seed they had. I would sit quietly and giggle thinking about this site. 1- None of these fat fucks have zeroed their weapons since they grew that triple chin. 2- None of them know shit about tactics. Cover vs. Concealment. 3- If they are all at the front, well shit, just go around the back. 4- It takes 45 days minumum to grow a fruit on a veggie plant if it ain't in the ground. So enjoy eating off your cupboard of chef boy-a-de (not knocking it at all). Oh, and gardening is not easy, which is why you lazy fucks pay hispanics to do it.

TL:DR- These fuckers are stuck in the southern plantation mentality. And it sucks and we are fucked.

 

[Haphap 741]

25 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Nice collection. How are they voting? They need  a place to stay while registering?

 

you forgot one more

[InkaUtexas 25861]

9 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Trump is absolutely not disgusted by plastic surgery. He's only disgusted by knowing it's plastic surgery

How does he feel about fake tans?

[Hermanator 7032]

5 minutes ago, quigley said:

Of course I didn't say or even assume all. And I agree, by definition, if they vote for Trump, they have poor political judgement.

I cabin my trust of everyone. I can trust some people with some things and other people with others. I have a sliding scale. Regarding your specific example of child care, I don't think being a Trump support eliminates your ability to care for children. We've had people I assume are Trump supports care for our daughter.

To each his own, but it seems having someone who supports that level of hate and sexual violence towards women watching your daughter would be like having someone who shows tendencies of pyromania watching your house. 

Luckily neither my parents nor in laws support that so I don't have that close of a connection to it, but man it would make it tough. I have some brother and sister-in-laws neither I nor my wife would trust with them now if they were still young minors. 

[Jive Turkey 12594]

 

[South Austin 52449]

3 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

Great timing. The Saturday before the election. Thank you New York Times. Thanks a lot.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

From the Atlantic article

Things appeared to stabilize from there. As September gave way to October, and Harris launched a major media offensive aimed at connecting with voters who still felt no familiarity with her, Trump’s campaign was delighted to cede the spotlight. Wiles and LaCivita believed that every moment Harris spent in front of live cameras translated to more Republican votes. Instead of trying to book Trump onto major networks, where his comments might produce negative news cycles, his team arranged a tour of podcasts, most of them aimed at young men. The effort was led by Bruesewitz, the impulsive young Vance sycophant who maintained an impressive network of right-wing influencers. The strategy appeared to work: For the first three weeks of October, Trump’s internal polling showed Harris’s momentum stalled—measured in both net favorability and vote share—while Trump’s numbers inched upward.

--

Technically a mid-level staffer—formally a liaison to right-wing media, informally a terminally online troll and perpetual devil on the campaign’s shoulder—Bruesewitz had grown his profile inside of Trump’s orbit. The candidate’s appearances on various bro-themed podcasts were hailed as acts of strategic genius. But there was one guest booking Bruesewitz couldn’t secure: He wanted Trump to talk with Hinchcliffe on his show, Kill Tony. When word got around that Trump was looking for opening acts at the Garden, Bruesewitz made the introductions. Trump’s head of planning and production, Justin Caporale, ran with the idea. No senior staff ever bothered to vet Hinchcliffe themselves.

--

Backstage at the Garden, in the blur of debate and indecision over damage control, it was Stephen Miller who pondered the bigger picture. (Miller did not respond to a request for comment.) According to two people who were present, Miller, the Trump policy adviser whose own nativist impulses are well documented, was not offended by Hinchcliffe’s racist jokes. Yet he was angered by them all the same: He knew the campaign had just committed a huge unforced error. He believed that Bruesewitz had done profound damage to Trump’s electoral prospects. And, in that moment, he seethed at what this lack of discipline portended for Trump should he return to power.

 

Bwahaha!

 

[Surly Bevo 24908]

13 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Right.  Wrestling is big business. The model has been lifted.  

[Chopper 17230]

10 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Thanks, I was absolutely wondering what that -- I'm more greek than him -- was about. 

2 hours ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

in the 25 yrs I’ve known bozo, he’s never once wavered on this insight.  and as someone who grew up in solidly blue, union heavy, labor Democrat stronghold, i bear witness to that constituency being left behind over the last few decades by the current iteration of the Democratic Party.   fucking hell, i never dreamed of the day that Jefferson county would turn red for myriad reasons, yet here we are.  

all because the historical party advocates and protectors of labor simply walked away.  

so yeah…bozo was prophetically spot on then as well as now. 

Those folks have been voting against their self-interest for years. Liberals like Paul Wellstone never walked away from unions. It's the Democrats who "worked with both sides" that got praised. Not electing more liberals and progressives has been their (working class) downfall. However, the blue collars have been trained to be anti-liberal even though it's in their self interest through racism, sexism and believing rhetoric that helping billionaires would somehow dribble down to them. It started with Reagan and picked up serious steam under Trump. Unions, minimum wage, higher taxes on the wealthy, worker protection, consumer protection, medicaid, Pell grants, free school lunches, SNAP amounts, federal help for affordable housing, the Job Corps, restriction of collective bargaining rights, help for people to navigate the ACA and make them figure that shit out on their own, veterans benefits and veterans hospitals. Flattening the tax rates. Gutting public schools. There's a long list of programs that helped support working class Americans but Republicans took aim at, and when they had to, were able to find middle of the road politicians, such as Sherrod Brown, to vote with them. Then we have the Supreme Court and how the Rs have stacked it in order to fuck over every single American except for billionaires and large corporations and their execs. Your buddies have been voting against their own self interest for years. I call that fucking stupid.

Edited November 2 by Chopper

[Js1 85275]

2 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Great timing. The Saturday before the election. Thank you New York Times. Thanks a lot.

The NYT endorsed Harris a month ago. Just reiterating it I guess 

[South Austin 52449]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

The NYT endorsed Harris a month ago. Just reiterating it I guess 

I guess I missed that since they’ve generally been shitheads for so long.

[Ted Lange 16084]

One thing I’m curious about is crossover endorsements.   There are a bunch of republicans who have spoke out against Trump to flat out endorsed Harris.   Who are the reverse?   Tulsi & RFK Jr (I guess).   I assume I’m missing several.    

[Sawbonz 27537]

1 hour ago, quigley said:

I disagree. I know several Trump voters of different races and income levels. Some of them are really, really smart. These are generally good people who I trust. One is a close friend. The media ecosystem in America is broken and feeds this lie that we're so different.

I imagine you know several people from your time in the military that are Trump supports. Did they unlearn the lessons that brought them to serve?

Do you know who Kenneth Follett is? He wrote one of the best spy thrillers ever, called Eye of the Needle, but then he started writing sweeping historical novels about England. One called Winter of the World (book 2 of a trilogy dealing with the 20th century) examines in detail the rise of fascism in Germany, along with the (narrowly) defeated attempt to bring fascists into power in England. In both cases, there were people of different income levels, some really really smart, who were generally good people. Many were close friends, and even family members. 
 

And they went on to commit some of the worst atrocities the world has ever seen

It’s a quick read, and can be read as a standalone, although the first book in the trilogy is fantastic as well. You should read it to get an idea of how this could get really bad really quickly with a Trump win

[South Austin 52449]

2 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

One thing I’m curious about is crossover endorsements.   There are a bunch of republicans who have spoke out against Trump to flat out endorsed Harris.   Who are the reverse?   Tulsi & RFK Jr (I guess).   I assume I’m missing several.    

On those crossovers, I’m hopeful that for every high profile Republican endorsing Harris, there are a munch more regular Joe and Jane Republicans doing the same.

[Red Five 40837]

6 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

One thing I’m curious about is crossover endorsements.   There are a bunch of republicans who have spoke out against Trump to flat out endorsed Harris.   Who are the reverse?   Tulsi & RFK Jr (I guess).   I assume I’m missing several.    

Yeah but they aren't democrats.

[Ted Lange 16084]

6 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Right.  Wrestling is big business. The model has been lifted.  

Sort of.   Spectacle is part of it but the $ is in telling people what they want to hear.    Money is what runs every single thing in this country.  From CNN all the way to Infowars,  the goal is to make money.  That’s it.   There is 100x more money to be made in telling people what they want to hear and secondly being bombastic.

But back to the original point that people just want news, not filtered news through talking heads.   if people didn’t want (well sort of given whose talking during some it) infotainment then CSPAN wouldn’t have 1/100th the ratings of OANNN 

[Ted Lange 16084]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

Yeah but they aren't democrats.

I get that.  But MAGA would just say anyone who endorses Harris isn’t a conservative.    Who are all the former Ds that have switched. 

[BevoAbyss 2058]

24 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So many Trump voters have their reasons. And 90% of the time it is not racist. It is personnel gain. I was working in an office of them. The owner's issue was border security, flood of the state of texas by brown people, BLM burning down the nation, etc. Go on down to the receptionist. It was taxes, rise of food prices, etc. Meanwhile I had the shittiest car in the lot (pretty damn nice Classic Cherokee), brought in my lunch (they were all off to get fast food), and dressed well (knock off T-shirts were allowed). Daughter was one of the worst. It is SOOOO HARDDDD as she takes the company RV to ACL and is mad cuz her mommies G-Wagon could not be parked in the shade.

My favorite was the retired US Army Major. Her husband took a cooshy contractor gig in Iraq. She was complaining about the cost of childcare so the only thing she could do was get an Au Pair. From where? COLOMBIA..... Why I asked, well all the whites around here are methheads. But yep, going to vote Hard R and it is the rise of Hispanics to blame. She gave me an ugly look when I spoke Spanish to our HR person (Costa Rican from Cali) and joked well guess she needed to learn so she could speak to the help. I had to walk outside after that one.

They loved to brag about all the guns they have. How they had already started planning at their gated communities on how they would guard the front gate. How many tons of seed they had. I would sit quietly and giggle thinking about this site. 1- None of these fat fucks have zeroed their weapons since they grew that triple chin. 2- None of them know shit about tactics. Cover vs. Concealment. 3- If they are all at the front, well shit, just go around the back. 4- It takes 45 days minumum to grow a fruit on a veggie plant if it ain't in the ground. So enjoy eating off your cupboard of chef boy-a-de (not knocking it at all). Oh, and gardening is not easy, which is why you lazy fucks pay hispanics to do it.

This is a classic example of doublethink. Orwell's brilliant insight: Believing that two opposite propositions are both true at the same time, or claiming a surface issue is true ... to mask what you know is the deeper issue of truth.)

Says 90% of MAGA it is not about racism, then lists tons of racist examples.  Consider last two paragraphs.

-- Mentions Army person in Iraq. Ignores that War in Iraq was racist and religious war.

-- Vote Hard R to handle the Hispanics (obviously through deportation, though not mentioned)

-- The entire gated community armed to the teeth is premised in racism.

Dude: Think deeper and more clearly. It's good for ya.

MAGA supporters are full-on racists. 

Edited November 2 by BevoAbyss

[aggie08 21483]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

On those crossovers, I’m hopeful that for every high profile Republican endorsing Harris, there are a munch more regular Joe and Jane Republicans doing the same.

Yep yep. Doesn't even take all that many to be effective considering every crossover is basically like 2 votes.

[Dbeasy 15042]

40 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This. There are two types of Trump voters: 1) those who like the evil and cruelty to others, and 2) those who are just fine with evil and cruelty to others if they think it will provide them 1 cent of benefit.
If you enjoy making my neighbor suffer and die, or if you are cool with it because you’ll get an extra penny off your taxes, there is no meaningful distinction: you are pure shit.
We have to stop treating these people with kid gloves. Stop treating them with respect or sympathy. They deserve neither. They are EXACTLY like the Germans who went along with evil in the 1930s. I don’t care if they were one of the ones who genuinely hated Jews and thought the world should be under Germany’s boot, or if they were one of the ones who went along with it because they thought they could personally gain from it. Both groups were necessary to create the wermacht and the gas chambers. Both can go to hell.
Then. And now.

 

38 minutes ago, G650 said:

The thing is there is a third group that genuinely don't get it. I know that it's seems logically impossible, but it absolutely exists.

Yes I see this third group. A lot. Disinformation has warped their brains. They somehow can’t process all of this data because disinformation has made it impossible for them to see it. Just like a cult. 

[Francisco 2.0 32386]

 

 

 

[Hefeweizen 5310]

52 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Je serai dans ma couchette

Ok Jorkin D.

[BevoAbyss 2058]

 

55 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

Quoting brisket. "French women are all-timers."

I second that take. Great memories from Paris.

Had a paid summer gig in London in early 1990s, back when I was young and pretty. Spent most every weekend (Friday-Sunday) taking train into Paris, staying at B&B, and just wandering into cafes, coffeehouses, bars, art galleries. 

Amazingly, a surprising amount of French chicks loved talking/drinking/partying with a dude from Texas! Especially a dude who wore black cowboy boots, kinda skinny jeans, and had actually read Jean-Paul Sartre. Viva la France!

Edited November 2 by BevoAbyss

[TexasHooch 5122]

1 hour ago, Pancho said:

Nope, own it mofos. 
 

 

Good article.  I'm generally dubious of reporting that offers no more details of sourcing than "...conversations with nearly a dozen of the former president’s aides, advisers, and friends".  However, in this case I'm not too bothered because the primary source for all of this dirt is easily identified.  Chris LaCivita.  There's zero doubt in my mind.  I can't wait for the book next year.

[SubliminalHorn 6786]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Ah yes, the weekend before the election when the losing campaign starting leaking to the press 

He gone 

[MrBig 5380]

11 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

 

 

He needs to take one of these to lock down the Millennial vote

[Horndog 2228]

2 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

 Especially a dude who wore black cowboy boots and had actually read Jean-Paul Sartre. Viva la France!

So you're the existential threat?

[tchookem 3900]

He’s right. One of my high school teachers was much beloved but is all-in on Trump, and we stay in touch. 
I told him this the other day: “If Trump wins, 3 generations of students who loved you will remember you for that. You grandkids will remember you for that. You won’t be the guy that took them camping. You won’t be the teacher they looked up to or the grandfather who taught them to fish. You’ll just be a Trumper, until enough years pass that you pass from living memory and nobody knows who you were or talks about you anymore.”

The thing is, when he dies, his social media will live on forever. And, in ten thousand years, when some AI Android is shifting through Facebook archives, all it will know is that he was a Trumper.

[Pato del Muerto 52485]

58 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This mush brain had to be told that she had a lot of work done?  Does he know about Maria from the black lagoon?

[sidis 9823]

37 minutes ago, Haphap said:

you forgot one

uhhh, one?

while i love catherine, eva, and especially marion...the oversight of leaving laetitia out is unforgivable.

as is nora...

and sophie...

and brigitte...

and this lass isn't so bad when we constantly let her down...

[Sawbonz 27537]

14 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Mexicans in particular seem to have become more Trumpy, which might be what's going on in NVAZ

 

14 hours ago, Born to Run said:

And South Texas. We ceded a traditionally Blue South Texas Corridor with a booming population and have done Nothing to course correct.  It's infuriating. We need a statewide candidate that is Allred/ Munchin light but Latino that also hunts and can look authentic doing so like Gov Ann whilst quoting George Straight with Flaco Jimenez endorsement.

I caught the tail end of an NPR segment yesterday evening that was talking about grassroots GOTV efforts in the RGV to appeal to voters by going specifically after Mexican Americans rather than “Hispanics” or Latinos,” and focusing on their cultural pride and using cultural and musical icons to energize them.

Apparently it’s a novel and as I mentioned only grassroots approach, not really supported monetarily or on social media by the Democratic Party’s machinery at any level.
 

They contrasted it with the more organized outreach being done with mobilization in the Puerto Rican community nationwide. There are over 9 million Mexican Americans in Texas. This seems like a huge blind spot to me, as a white dude. Am I missing something?

[Js1 85275]

13 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

He gone 

I mean, Trumpworld is notoriously leaky and backstabby. But the 2 things Pancho posted reads like campaign staff are getting out in front of a loss to put it all on Trump. 

No one in the Harris campaign is gonna be blackballed from future campaigns (if they happen) if she loses. But there will be a lot of knives out for Trump campaign staff when he loses. He and the family will turn on LaCivita, Wiles, Lewandowski, etc. in an instant and they’ll be out of political jobs as long as Trump and MAGA have influence 

Edited November 2 by Js1

[Chopper 17230]

 

 

[gmr548 16576]

17 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Probably posted but I’ve been traveling all day and couldn’t keep up with the thread. 

x, x, x, x, 3, 1, 4, 2, 5

No interviews. Respect my decision.

16 hours ago, immamac said:

Should I call chillis and try to get a national surly deal for Wednesday? Dead serious. 

Do you want Chili's to call the Feds and report suspicious election-focused organizing of creepy white men from the internet?

14 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-monitor-polls-27-states-compliance-federal-voting-rights-laws

Texas counties

Love that we have to treat the second largest state in the union like a third world country.

14 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Noble but she can’t withdraw a few days before the election. She’s on the ballot. RFK too, in most spots. But I hope they ostracize the fuck out of her until time ends. 

She can say "Actually, y'all, reflecting on the past couple weeks this fucking guy is certifiably crazy and a threat to every one of our goals. I know it's underwhelming, but I'm suspending my campaign and asking you to vote for Kamala Harris. We will keep the pressure on her and Democrats but Trump is an unacceptable risk."

Green Party voters are highly online and that would have high visibility among her voters, and would certainly move a chunk of them. Many, probably the majority, would ignore it and say she sold out. It would still net Harris votes though.

She won't do it, but she could. 

13 hours ago, mantis toboggan said:

Someone with more knowledge than me please tell me why Ohio will spilt Dem/repub for senate/president?  Is the repub senate candidate that bad?  Seems off. 

They won't if it's Trump +8-10 or something but at Trump +3 it's believable. Sherrod Brown is one of those incumbent Senators with a distinct brand in his state and he is a progressive populist, which plays well. OH, especially northeast OH, is anti-immigrant/trade but still not as broadly socially conservative as the south or Indiana/Iowa. The culture war stuff is not quite as salient there. Also, yeah, Moreno is not a great candidate.

[Biff Tannen 45665]

11 minutes ago, sidis said:

and this lass isn't so bad when we constantly let her down...

[Js1 85275]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

She won't do it, but she could. 

Of course she won’t. She’s either funded by Russia to play spoiler or secretly funded by the RNC. She’s not in it for anything but to play spoiler - she doesn’t care what the global Green Party thinks of her. 

[quigley 1559]

37 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you know who Kenneth Follett is? He wrote one of the best spy thrillers ever, called Eye of the Needle, but then he started writing sweeping historical novels about England. One called Winter of the World (book 2 of a trilogy dealing with the 20th century) examines in detail the rise of fascism in Germany, along with the (narrowly) defeated attempt to bring fascists into power in England. In both cases, there were people of different income levels, some really really smart, who were generally good people. Many were close friends, and even family members. 
 

And they went on to commit some of the worst atrocities the world has ever seen

It’s a quick read, and can be read as a standalone, although the first book in the trilogy is fantastic as well. You should read it to get an idea of how this could get really bad really quickly with a Trump win

I know the history and know the risk. I have spent money and time supporting Dems to opposite Trump / GOP since 2015.

I also know the people around me. I'm a minority who grew up in the sticks of Oklahoma in the 1970s. The public library in the county seat still had "colored" over one of the restroom doors and water fountains. I've experienced the hate you are talking about.

Demonizing the other is what Trump wants. If we do it, we are working atomize our country further.

I like spy novels and have seen Ken Follett but not read him. Will check it out.

[Js1 85275]

48 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you know who Kenneth Follett is?

Everything he writes is so good