2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[SydneyCarton 49505]

Somehow I feel like this Epstein shit won’t even make it onto the radar of the general public. 

[TwiceHorn 32080]

6 hours ago, MrX said:

@SydneyCarton Standing isn’t an issue. Standing is about whether he can allege he’s been the party actually aggrieved. Threshold has nothing to do with the merits of the claim. 
 

Jurisdiction and venue are the main concerns. Jurisdiction is whether the court in question has the authority to even hear the case. That will depend on Texas’s long arm statute (CBS is not a Texas entity) on whether Texas federal court can bring the case in. There’s a number of factors that go into consideration that mostly hinge on how close CBS has contacts to the state.  
 

Venue is about “does the incident itself make sense to be here”. That’s probably where it breaks down - Trump wasn’t in Amarillo or its immediate area when the show aired. Both parties don’t have the Panhandle as a primary place of business. CBS gonna be hard to serve there.  And courts generally looks down upon “forum shopping” even if venue is otherwise proved - a defendant can make an argument that the venue isn’t convenient considering the overall circumstances. 
 

My guess is that suit goes nowhere in Texas. 

The problem of course is that venue lies in the discretion of the judge, mostly.  And Kazmethhead has yet to meet a suit without connection to Texas that he's willing to dismiss or transfer.  And it's not like the Fifth Circuit is going to grant mandamus to overrule him.

Standing in this case is going to be measured by the DTPA statute and I don't think Trump is a consumer within the meaning of the statute.  ETA:  Standing in the case of violation of a statute, like this cause of action, is a less free-ranging inquiry than what we've seen lately in the constitutional tort type cases.  It boils down to is the plaintiff the type of person that the statute intends to protect and does the plaintiff allege an injury that the statute was intended to redress.  I think the answers here are no and no.

(4) "Consumer" means an individual, partnership, corporation, this state, or a subdivision or agency of this state who seeks or acquires by purchase or lease, any goods or services, except that the term does not include a business consumer that has assets of $25 million or more, or that is owned or controlled by a corporation or entity with assets of $25 million or more.

(10) "Business consumer" means an individual, partnership, or corporation who seeks or acquires by purchase or lease, any goods or services for commercial or business use. The term does not include this state or a subdivision or agency of this state.

Secondarily, DTPA was originally intended to be sort of a "super Trademark/false advertising" statute.  It has been construed to cover a broader range of activity than that, but I don't think it stretches nearly this far.

Thirdly, I think the Texas anti-Slapp statute will apply to this, so if a 12(b)(6) motion doesn't kill it, that will.  ETAA: well goddammit, the Texas anti-Slapp statute appears not to apply in diversity cases in the 5th Circuit (I'm actually probably ok with this, as I am not so sure about that whole statute, Laura).

Finally, a ragtag weird collection of lawyers handling this for Trump, signifying that he is still unable to secure white shoe representation.  You can be reasonably sure that CBS is going to meet this with the best media/1A lawyers in the country that are going to stuff these dbags through the hoop, even in Kazmethhead's court.

Edited November 1 by TwiceHorn

[Hank_Hill 20054]

4 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I voted for Harris, but I am hopefully exiting within two years no matter what happens. Doing the first leg of the journey through the Pacific by coming to Honolulu to search for a place for the next week. Should be fully moved here by the end of January. So incredibly tired of the hateful pricks we should’ve shot out of a cannon into an active volcano after 2020.

I’ve been very happy to be out here and removed from everything this year. The election may genuinely delay my return mainland if things go the wrong way. 

[South Austin 53227]

3 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Not nagging us.

Go on.

[Francisco 2.0 32597]

 

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

I’ve been feeling optimistic until this morning. Friends of mine, all educated, white women in Texas, dressed as garbage and bragged about their votes. Obvious they are part of the cult. One is actually a really good friend too. Sigh.

[Francisco 2.0 32597]

 

 

 

[South Austin 53227]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I’ve been feeling optimistic until this morning. Friends of mine, all educated, white women in Texas, dressed as garbage and bragged about their votes. Obvious they are part of the cult. One is actually a really good friend too. Sigh.

Your friends seem like they suck.

[hornmpa96 2669]

50 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The problem of course is that venue lies in the discretion of the judge, mostly.  And Kazmethhead has yet to meet a suit without connection to Texas that he's willing to dismiss or transfer.  And it's not like the Fifth Circuit is going to grant mandamus to overrule him.

Standing in this case is going to be measured by the DTPA statute and I don't think Trump is a consumer within the meaning of the statute.  ETA:  Standing in the case of violation of a statute, like this cause of action, is a less free-ranging inquiry than what we've seen lately in the constitutional tort type cases.  It boils down to is the plaintiff the type of person that the statute intends to protect and does the plaintiff allege an injury that the statute was intended to redress.  I think the answers here are no and no.

(4) "Consumer" means an individual, partnership, corporation, this state, or a subdivision or agency of this state who seeks or acquires by purchase or lease, any goods or services, except that the term does not include a business consumer that has assets of $25 million or more, or that is owned or controlled by a corporation or entity with assets of $25 million or more.

(10) "Business consumer" means an individual, partnership, or corporation who seeks or acquires by purchase or lease, any goods or services for commercial or business use. The term does not include this state or a subdivision or agency of this state.

Secondarily, DTPA was originally intended to be sort of a "super Trademark/false advertising" statute.  It has been construed to cover a broader range of activity than that, but I don't think it stretches nearly this far.

Thirdly, I think the Texas anti-Slapp statute will apply to this, so if a 12(b)(6) motion doesn't kill it, that will.  ETAA: well goddammit, the Texas anti-Slapp statute appears not to apply in diversity cases in the 5th Circuit (I'm actually probably ok with this, as I am not so sure about that whole statute, Laura).

Finally, a ragtag weird collection of lawyers handling this for Trump, signifying that he is still unable to secure white shoe representation.  You can be reasonably sure that CBS is going to meet this with the best media/1A lawyers in the country that are going to stuff these dbags through the hoop, even in Kazmethhead's court.

Twice - You’re actually trying to apply the law. Unfortunately, Kaz-Know-Nothing doesn’t actually care about the law. He thinks God wants him to grant a victory to Trump and he will rule for Trump.

As you rightly point out, that will ultimately go through the 5th Circuit which is the most wretched hive of scum and villainy since Mos Eisley. In a 2-1 decision, they will uphold the Amarillo Moron’s decision.

Now, we’re at the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito will threaten to show up at Court every day open carrying ARs if the Court takes the case. Ultimately the Court takes the case and Trump loses a 5-4 decision with Roberts and ACB joining the 3 liberal justices. Thomas pens a dissent written in crayon and blood that Trump should be able to file this lawsuit in Texas because he sent some nice Russians to his house and they fixed his RV which had broken down in Nebraska.

This timeline sucks.

[SydneyCarton 49505]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I’ve been feeling optimistic until this morning. Friends of mine, all educated, white women in Texas, dressed as garbage and bragged about their votes. Obvious they are part of the cult. One is actually a really good friend too. Sigh.

lol, optimistic about what? Texas flipping? Otherwise WGAF. Also new state, new friends, imo. 

[UpperWestside 6279]

39 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

I’ve been very happy to be out here and removed from everything this year. The election may genuinely delay my return mainland if things go the wrong way. 

Boy howdy you are really lucky to not see this circus sideshow on a daily basis. NYC has way too many of these people. It may be a Democratic stronghold, but the stain of Staten Island and Suffolk County is just embarrassing.

I won’t return to the mainland once I leave. Once that plane leaves in January I will not set foot in the continental US for the rest of my life if I can help it. We have this very short time to live and enjoy our lives and even wasting a minute of it living with just hateful, bottom of the barrel people is just in no way worth it. My niece and nephew will know which South Pacific country I am living in and they can come visit me there when they are older and can travel. I hope to get my mom out to Honolulu for at least a month once I settle in as well.

[jimmyjazz 47214]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Somehow I feel like this Epstein shit won’t even make it onto the radar of the general public. 

Seems kinda late in the game.  Well done, sir.  Oy vey.

[UpperWestside 6279]

11 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I’ve been feeling optimistic until this morning. Friends of mine, all educated, white women in Texas, dressed as garbage and bragged about their votes. Obvious they are part of the cult. One is actually a really good friend too. Sigh.

That’d instantly make them an ex-good friend in my book. You want to support a garbage person that makes you one as well. We’re at that point where these people need to be excluded from civilized society permanently. They need to have issues gaining meaningful employment and should be stuck washing dishes for the rest of their lives.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

12 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

lol, optimistic about what? Texas flipping? Otherwise WGAF. Also new state, new friends, imo. 

God no. Just that educated women in Texas would turn and vote for their daughters (two of these women have daughters). But they didn’t. 

[jimmyjazz 47214]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

God no. Just that educated women in Texas would turn and vote for their daughters (two of these women have daughters). But they didn’t. 

Are any of them Catholic?  Honest question.

[BurntOrange&White 41877]

7 hours ago, mdmost said:

I'm not sure how to live in a world where Rex Kramer might not be a total f'ing dildo.

[BurntOrange&White 41877]

According to Kens5 here in San Antonio Bexar county is over 500k in early votes. How does that compare to 2020

[SydneyCarton 49505]

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

According to Kens5 here in San Antonio Bexar county is over 500k in early votes. How does that compare to 2020

There’s a thread that probably has that info. Huck had been tracking Texas by county in the lab thread.

[NIUHuskies 505]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

According to Kens5 here in San Antonio Bexar county is over 500k in early votes. How does that compare to 2020

680,009 according to the Texas Tribune

https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-early-voting-numbers/

[TexArcher 39072]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Somehow I feel like this Epstein shit won’t even make it onto the radar of the general public. 

Yeah, and I honestly wonder what percentage of Americans even knows why Epstein was a bad guy.

Half, maybe?

This is a seriously ignorant country on average, and it's compounded by the fact that a big subset is being willfully deceived.

 

Edited November 1 by TexArcher

[SydneyCarton 49505]

Just now, TexArcher said:

Yeah, and I honestly wonder what percentage of Americans even knows why Epstein was a bad guy.

Half, maybe?

This is a seriously ignorant country on average, and it's compounded by the fact that about half of us are being willfully deceived.

I expect awareness was more the. You’d expect because so many right wing q nuts jumped on that conspiracy, tried to tie it to Clinton, etc. 

[quigley 1565]

24 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

God no. Just that educated women in Texas would turn and vote for their daughters (two of these women have daughters). But they didn’t. 

I'm friends with a woman who is a doctor, who herself has had an abortion. She grew up a New England Republican. She voted for Trump in 2016 because was on the red team her entire life and didn't believe he was going to do all the things he plainly stated he wanted to do. After the 2016 election we stopped talking politics completely.

After Jan 6, I checked in to see if she'd shifted her position. Nope.

Hard for me to dissociate from her and her husband completely because we share several friends. We both strictly avoid political / news discussion.

[quigley 1565]

4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Yeah, and I honestly wonder what percentage of Americans even knows why Epstein was a bad guy.

Half, maybe?

This is a seriously ignorant country on average, and it's compounded by the fact that a big subset is being willfully deceived.

 

We are a stupid people but we like salacious content. Epstein fits the "news" "sex" Venn diagram well.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2888]

Edmund Fitzgerald Song keeps going through my head, particularly this line:

He said, "Fellas, it's been good to know ya"

Well shit, everyone have a good weekend, hope the ags lose, and the best we can do is to be kind to others, even our enemies, in the moment.  

[TwiceHorn 32080]

9 hours ago, Macanudo said:

That's what I want to know.  I realize "why" it was filed in Amarillo (friendly MAGA judge) but I don't understand how it's allowed.   Neither CBS or Trump reside or do business there.   How is that allowed as the place for the lawsuit?

Two questions have to be answered here, one is "personal jurisdiction" and the other is venue.  Personal jurisdiction is constitutional and its existence gives the court the power to hear the case and its lack deprives the court of that power.  It attempts to measure the defendant's connections or contacts with the state in question and the fairness/foreseeability of being sued in the state.  It probably barely exists here because the case arises out of CBS' broadcast of the interview and subsequent actions, all of which were available to viewers in Texas, as CBS knew and intended.  That's probably enough.

Venue is not constitutional, it's a creature of statute.  Some statutes mandate where venue lies for certain kinds of cases, like patent infringement, where the suit must be filed where the defendant resides or commits acts of infringement and maintains a place of business (e.g. an Apple store for when Apple infringes patents).  If the suit is not filed in one of those places, venue is conclusively wrong and the suit must be dismissed or transferred to a district where venue is proper.

But a lot of cases have no "mandatory venue" statute, and this would be one of them.  Therefore, if personal jurisdiction is satisfied, so is venue, at least technically.  So, the judge can dismiss or transfer it if the venue is "inconvenient."  There are factors to consider here, one of which is a complete lack of connection of the plaintiff (and defendant) to the venue in question.  However, ultimately it is an "abuse of discretion" standard that mostly leaves it up to the judge.  The only way to appeal a judge's venue decision is by a "writ of mandamus," which is a very narrow type of appeal that is disfavored and typically unlikely to succeed.  It would seem that the political affinity between the 5th Circuit, Kazmethhead, and Trump mean this is effectively unappealable.

[BurntOrange&White 41877]

15 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

680,009 according to the Texas Tribune

https://apps.texastribune.org/features/2020/texas-early-voting-numbers/

Interesting they keep dating its record turnout. 

[miguelito 11505]

I love Edmund Fitzgerald's voice.

[jimmyjazz 47214]

3 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I love Edmund Fitzgerald's voice.

Yup, his song "The Wreck of the Gordon Lightfoot" is an all-timer.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Are any of them Catholic?  Honest question.

Nope.  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13629]

His work in Rockpile is stellar.

[cactusflinthead 27627]

[immamac 44360]

Still expensing the POs even though he's not issuing payment. 

I'm pretty sure after he loses again and eventually dies the expose on everything that was going on is going to make his supporters look even dumber than they do now. 

[TwiceHorn 32080]

1 hour ago, hornmpa96 said:

Twice - You’re actually trying to apply the law. Unfortunately, Kaz-Know-Nothing doesn’t actually care about the law. He thinks God wants him to grant a victory to Trump and he will rule for Trump.

As you rightly point out, that will ultimately go through the 5th Circuit which is the most wretched hive of scum and villainy since Mos Eisley. In a 2-1 decision, they will uphold the Amarillo Moron’s decision.

Now, we’re at the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito will threaten to show up at Court every day open carrying ARs if the Court takes the case. Ultimately the Court takes the case and Trump loses a 5-4 decision with Roberts and ACB joining the 3 liberal justices. Thomas pens a dissent written in crayon and blood that Trump should be able to file this lawsuit in Texas because he sent some nice Russians to his house and they fixed his RV which had broken down in Nebraska.

This timeline sucks.

All true, but half the reason for my posts are not to explain how it WILL go, but how it SHOULD go, if we weren't on this gotdam timeline.

Thirty some odd years ago, when I was a baby lawyer, I was gratified that the Fifth Circuit was one of the more balanced courts of appeal with solid jurists with a sense of humor like Irving Goldberg and even civil rights leaders like Wisdom and others.  And illustrious judicial UT alumni  I now find it disgusting and repugnant and probably the worst court of appeals.  That's really fucking embarrassing.

 

Edited November 1 by TwiceHorn

[UpperWestside 6279]

46 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Yeah, and I honestly wonder what percentage of Americans even knows why Epstein was a bad guy.

Half, maybe?

This is a seriously ignorant country on average, and it's compounded by the fact that a big subset is being willfully deceived.

 

There is a fairly good percentage voting for Harris that couldn’t tell you who Epstein is. We are not a country that is well educated on much of anything. We can tell you as a country who to watch for fantasy football. We can tell you what the big COLLEGE FOOTBAW matchups are, but the things that should have some relevance and importance to an average American are more unknown than known. We have almost completely lost our way.

[tchookem 3969]

Wife and I had dinner tonight avoiding Halloween kids like good republicans. After a few drinks she asked me how I voted. I told her. We left in separate cars as she had to collect kids. This is our text exchange:

"Babe" is sure giving off "pal" vibes. Tread lightly, Buddy.

[immamac 44360]

Just now, UpperWestside said:

There is a fairly good percentage voting for Harris that couldn’t tell you who Epstein is. We are not a country that is well educated on much of anything. We can tell you as a country who to watch for fantasy football. We can tell you what the big COLLEGE FOOTBAW matchups are, but the things that should have some relevance and importance to an average American are more unknown than known. We have almost completely lost our way.

This is intentional. The media is also complicit with this plan. 

Harris if she wins has the ultimate opportunity to pull us out of the oligarchy to eventual collapse doom loop. Let's see if she has the backbone to stand behind a tough FTC, SEC and has a strong AG to expedite both trust busting and start enforcing the actual securities laws that are clearly being violated by a certain class and bring back accountability. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

7 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Additionally, if he dumped a shitload of shares at once, trading would suspend and it would tank. 

Well, that's exactly what has happened the last two days.  He's selling like a mother fucker.

[SydneyCarton 49505]

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

Still expensing the POs even though he's not issuing payment. 

I'm pretty sure after he loses again and eventually dies the expose on everything that was going on is going to make his supporters look even dumber than they do now. 

His followers will never notice. “Witch hunt,” etc. even after he’s dead they won’t wake up. 

[HenryJames 67371]

8 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is intentional. The media is also complicit with this plan. 

Harris if she wins has the ultimate opportunity to pull us out of the oligarchy to eventual collapse doom loop. Let's see if she has the backbone to stand behind a tough FTC, SEC and has a strong AG to expedite both trust busting and start enforcing the actual securities laws that are clearly being violated by a certain class and bring back accountability. 

Keep Lina Khan.

[Bozo_Casanova 26851]

What's with the gloomy vibes,  were y'all up listening to Joy Division all night? 

There's an election to win Tuesday. In June there was like a 99% chance of a GOP sweep and a popular mandate for Donald Trump.  As of now, Democrats might take the house,  losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map, and the White House is a jump ball.  

Please, sack the fuck up. 

[horncyclist 1391]

Senior Harris campaign staffer neighbor able to  joined Halloween party late last night. Said she felt good. Checked her phone several times to reply to confidently to work questions. I think we’re good.

Edited November 1 by horncyclist

[Js1 87186]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What's with the gloomy vibes,  were y'all up listening to Joy Division all night? 

There's an election to win Tuesday. In June there was like a 99% chance of a GOP sweep and a popular mandate for Donald Trump.  As of now, Democrats might take the house,  losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map, and the White House is a jump ball.  

Please, sack the fuck up. 

[BamaATL 16593]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What's with the gloomy vibes,  were y'all up listening to Joy Division all night? 

There's an election to win Tuesday. In June there was like a 99% chance of a GOP sweep and a popular mandate for Donald Trump.  As of now, Democrats might take the house,  losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map, and the White House is a jump ball.  

Please, sack the fuck up. 

We ain't losing shit, including the Senate.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What's with the gloomy vibes,  were y'all up listening to Joy Division all night? 

There's an election to win Tuesday. In June there was like a 99% chance of a GOP sweep and a popular mandate for Donald Trump.  As of now, Democrats might take the house,  losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map, and the White House is a jump ball.  

Please, sack the fuck up. 

 

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I am working on the most tedious of anti-trust filings.  Before I had to start doing that, the social media algorithm put those "Garbage" pics through. And these are people I have been friends with for 35+ years.  Sigh.  So just not a good start to my Friday.

[texasdago 7770]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

lol, optimistic about what? Texas flipping? Otherwise WGAF. Also new state, new friends, imo. 

Yeah this is one thing I noticed leaving Houston. A lot of people we knew who would smile and be all friendly were raging Trumpers. I don't need that energy in my life.

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What's with the gloomy vibes,  were y'all up listening to Joy Division all night? 

There's an election to win Tuesday. In June there was like a 99% chance of a GOP sweep and a popular mandate for Donald Trump.  As of now, Democrats might take the house,  losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map, and the White House is a jump ball.  

Please, sack the fuck up. 

I'm tired of the "losses in the Senate appear to be minimal despite a terrible map" narrative in general.  Every map is terrible for Dems.  We can't afford to lose any seats.

[Huckleberry 34663]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

I am working on the most tedious of anti-trust filings.  Before I had to start doing that, the social media algorithm put those "Garbage" pics through. And these are people I have been friends with for 35+ years.  Sigh.  So just not a good start to my Friday.

I know it's tough, but they've made their choice. The good news is you've got us. 

Shit, no wait, that's more bad news. Sorry about your Friday. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I know it's tough, but they've made their choice. The good news is you've got us. 

Shit, no wait, that's more bad news. Sorry about your Friday. 

Best bunch of assholes on the internet.

[Bojack 2091]

21 minutes ago, immamac said:

This is intentional. The media is also complicit with this plan. 

Harris if she wins has the ultimate opportunity to pull us out of the oligarchy to eventual collapse doom loop. Let's see if she has the backbone to stand behind a tough FTC, SEC and has a strong AG to expedite both trust busting and start enforcing the actual securities laws that are clearly being violated by a certain class and bring back accountability. 

This right here is a huge part of an actual way forward out of this mess. Anti-corruption, target oligarchs and monopolies with an emphasis on encouraging competitive markets and building small business. It's good policy and would be enormously popular.  

[ConferenceRoom 6214]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Best bunch of assholes on the internet.