2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[The Original Greaser Bob 2736]

1 hour ago, troph said:

btw the idea that Trump is Biden's, Hillary's or the liberals fault is fucking laughable. It's the Christians and the monied Republicans fault. he is a VERY compelling and competitive candidate not because of anything the liberals do or don't do but because he is a natural authoritarian strong man who is taking advantage of what was available on the conservative side of our Country.

I was going to say he was compelling because he grabs 'em by the pussy but I see what you're saying.

In all seriousness, this comes down to one party backing an odious piece of shit.  If they backed a sumbitch with any sense of ethics or duty to country this still would be painful, but it wouldn't be existential.

[Ghost of LL 15255]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Pretty sure there is 100% overlap between people begging Joe to step down and people who begged him to replace Kamala as VP both last cycle and early this cycle. 

Nope.  I mean, if that's the narrative you want to go with, then fine.  But it's completely false.

[Bozo_Casanova 25909]

11 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Looks like we lathered some paint on him to make him look healthier:

 

 

 

Styling services for the 2024 Presidential campaigns provided by 

[closetohumping 17302]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

Pretty sure there is 100% overlap between people begging Joe to step down and people who begged him to replace Kamala as VP both last cycle and early this cycle. 

Not sure about overlap.  I just don’t want Donald to win and right now it looks like Joe is dead…in the water. Not actually dead. 

[Bozo_Casanova 25909]

8 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

In all seriousness, this comes down to one party backing an odious piece of shit.  If they backed a sumbitch with any sense of ethics or duty to country this still would be painful, but it wouldn't be existential.

“Shut up silly woman, said the reptile with a grin, 

You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in”

[Longhorn_Fan68 33723]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Not sure about overlap.  I just don’t want Donald to win and right now it looks like Joe is dead…in the water. Not actually dead. 

except that all evidence since the debate says otherwise. but keep parroting this bc surely that's useful

[Dbeasy 14791]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

She, like any Dem... including Biden, would have problems with single issue anti-trans voters.

But I think she'd do better on immigration than Biden.

Governor Whitmer’s Actions to Secure the Border

• Governor Whitmer is the first Michigan governor to send National Guard personnel in support of the southern border mission. 
• Governor Whitmer approved requests for National Guard support under both Trump and Biden administrations.
• The Michigan Army National Guard sent 175 personnel of 3-126 Infantry to locations in Fort Bliss, Laredo, and El Paso, Texas from March 2020 to March 2021. 
• Additionally, 37 members of Michigan’s 1431 Engineer Company have been on the ground in Zapata, Texas, since October 2020.
• In 2022, Governor Whitmer visited Michigan soldiers on the southern border to receive a briefing on the deployment’s mission.

 

Sure but how has she done against the hordes of dirty polite people from the North?

[SimonBolivar 10698]

Man the gulag watercooler is going to be lit. There's going to be those of us that told you that Biden should have been replaced this week and then those that say it wouldn't matter as Kamala et al. weren't electable anyway.  

[closetohumping 17302]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

except that all evidence since the debate says otherwise. but keep parroting this bc surely that's useful

Don’t worry Joe got this!

[Bozo_Casanova 25909]

31 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Of course there is. Don't be silly. 

51mm people turned on the debate, and the majority of the those already wondered if Joe Biden could still do the job. Now they know he can’t. There is no coming back from this and no historical analogy applies.  He could go dap somebody at every Waffle House in America every day between now and November and it won’t change the fact that independent voters in 5 key states will not come his way, period. The window to change minds is closed. It‘s plan B or plan T.

[closetohumping 17302]

44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

51mm people turned on the debate, and the majority of the those already wondered if Joe Biden could still do the job. Now they know he can’t. There is no coming back from this and no historical analogy applies.  He could go dap somebody at every Waffle House in America every day between now and November and it won’t change the fact that independent voters in 5 key states will not come his way, period. The window to change minds is closed. It‘s plan B or plan T.

Yep and posting data about dubya leading gore or how Biden won in 2020 is irrelevant.  That was scary bad and there were already rumors that Joe isn’t all there.  Which honestly should be a requirement to be president 

 

Getting cheery about how lively he was at Waffle House and how he said Don lied 26 times isn’t gonna do it

Edited July 3 by closetohumping

[Vegas64 640]

He's been out of the public eye for a long time now it seems, but I truly wonder how Bernie Sanders (82 years old) would speak and look on stage, in debates, etc. He always struck me as a lot more "with it" and articulate to begin with, so maybe that helps.

And for those who think it's a foregone conclusion that Biden won't survive a 2nd term-- you guys are aware that people degrade and deteroriate but still live in that diminished state for many years. Sometimes many, many years. Haven't you all had grandparents that lived in their 90's? Heck, if ole Jimmy Carter is still kicking, I think Biden can go a minimum of 4 more years of living. Everyone calm down.

[SimonBolivar 10698]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

51mm people turned on the debate, and the majority of the those already wondered if Joe Biden could still do the job. 

Think Pod Save America said another 30 million watched it online and these numbers don't even include the millions upon millions more that saw snippets on social media afterwards. I don't see how people can sit by and hope that people will have moved on and that he won't do the exact same thing again in the future. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11569]

People survive in a vegetative state for years.  Everyone calm down.

[South Austin 51681]

14 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Not sure about overlap.  I just don’t want Donald to win and right now it looks like Joe is dead…in the water. Not actually dead. 

But mostly dead.

[closetohumping 17302]

1 minute ago, SimonBolivar said:

Think Pod Save America said another 30 million watched it online and these numbers don't even include the millions upon millions more that saw snippets on social media afterwards. I don't see how people can sit by and hope that people will have moved on and that he won't do the exact same thing again in the future. 

Gotta get the questions for the next debate first.  Change the format etc 

[Vegas64 640]

Biden needs a moment like this video where he unexpectedly displays some wit mixed with some self-deprecating humor. He needs to lead with it in the first debate, address the elephant in the room head on, and then wipe the floor on facts and quips.

How Ronald Reagan handled questions about his age and mental accuity: 

 

Edited July 3 by Vegas64

[David Dennison 17804]

14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

51mm people turned on the debate, and the majority of the those already wondered if Joe Biden could still do the job. Now they know he can’t. There is no coming back from this and no historical analogy applies.  He could go dap somebody at every Waffle House in America every day between now and November and it won’t change the fact that independent voters in 5 key states will not come his way, period. The window to change minds is closed. It‘s plan B or plan T.

Maybe. Maybe not. You won't know until people actually vote. Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

[SimonBolivar 10698]

7 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Gotta get the questions for the next debate first.  Change the format etc 

Yeah, he certainly wasn't expecting those curveball questions about the economy, border, J6, inflation, or age! Who could've possibly known CNN would ask those kinds of questions in the debate.

[David Dennison 17804]

13 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Think Pod Save America said another 30 million watched it online and these numbers don't even include the millions upon millions more that saw snippets on social media afterwards. I don't see how people can sit by and hope that people will have moved on and that he won't do the exact same thing again in the future. 

Some of us don't see how you convince Joe Biden to resign or drop out of the race. That has to happen first.

[SimonBolivar 10698]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Maybe. Maybe not. You won't know until people actually vote. Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

Right, but people are all out there telling you that they don't want to vote for Joe because of his age concerns. Now most of them are probably full of shit and are voting for Trump no matter what, but I HIGHLY doubt that it's all of these people especially the young people. At the same time how many Americans are there right now that say they're only voting for Joe or they're staying home? That doesn't seem like a segment that exists.

[elfenix 34127]

52 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

That’s Botox. You can see that same expression on 20-year-old Insta hoes.

📸?

[SimonBolivar 10698]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Some of us don't see how you convince Joe Biden to resign or drop out of the race. That has to happen first.

I think he'd listen to reason with enough pressure, but yeah that is step #1.

[Biff Tannen 45225]

15 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

He needs to lead with it in the first debate, address the elephant in the room head on, and then wipe the floor on facts and quips.

 

...did you miss something?

[Bozo_Casanova 25909]

25 minutes ago, South Austin said:

But mostly dead.

A-ha!

 

11 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Right, but people are all out there telling you that they don't want to vote for Joe because of his age concerns. Now most of them are probably full of shit and are voting for Trump no matter what, but I HIGHLY doubt that it's all of these people especially the young people. At the same time how many Americans are there right now that say they're only voting for Joe or they're staying home? That doesn't seem like a segment that exists.

Hey I got an idea- let’s take people who already didn’t want to vote for Biden, who were already dispirited by their choices and didn’t want to pull the lever, and rub his diminished capacity in their nose and run them through a giant public freakout while Biden loses 2-3 points in key states where he was already 1-2 down. 
Are they more or less likely to vote? 
Or just Michigan- let’s say you are a young Lebanese or Palestinian American autoworker who was willing to vote Biden despite everything (despite Gaza, despite your redneck yooper buddies on the line talking Trump/MAGA shit every day), and now it looks like an enfeebled old man who can’t actually do the job even if he does win. How does Biden whistle stopping past the graveyard for the next 3 months get you to the polling place? 
 

 Not Trump is enough for me. It’s probably enough for 65-70mm people. It’s not enough for the next 10-12 he needs to win.

Edited July 3 by Bozo_Casanova

[Schulz2.0 28652]

11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Some of us don't see how you convince Joe Biden to resign or drop out of the race. That has to happen first.

We're in a RBG situation and scared to be mean to the old person.

[ChiTownDoc 20907]

Sundowning is a very real thing.  Has Joe been doing all the latest work earlier in the day?  He has definitely looked better.  But I'm still worried about our lovable Gramps...

[Js1 83677]

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

...did you miss something?

Uh oh, looks look somebody had a senior moment!

[ChiTownDoc 20907]

38 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

51mm people turned on the debate, and the majority of the those already wondered if Joe Biden could still do the job. Now they know he can’t. There is no coming back from this and no historical analogy applies.  He could go dap somebody at every Waffle House in America every day between now and November and it won’t change the fact that independent voters in 5 key states will not come his way, period. The window to change minds is closed. It‘s plan B or plan T.

Nails it.  People keep looking at polls all over.   None of that shit matters.  A couple hundred thousand people in 5 states matter.  And how the fuck is he getting those back?  

[Vegas64 640]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Uh oh, looks look somebody had a senior moment!

Well, I am 60. Bare with me, whippersnappers.

[closetohumping 17302]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Nails it.  People keep looking at polls all over.   None of that shit matters.  A couple hundred thousand people in 5 states matter.  And how the fuck is he getting those back?  

Yep 90% of Dems will vote for Joe. 90% of pubs will vote for the criminal.  Who wins the independents in Arizona , Ohio, Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan and North Carolina?  And what issues do they care about 

[DixonHur 10862]

4 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Well, I am 60. Bare with me, whippersnappers.

You want us to get naked with you?

Not kink shaming, but I'll pass

[ChiTownDoc 20907]

The sun will probably come up tomorrow.  But it hasn't yet.  How do any of us really know?

[bolverk 29104]

9 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Well, I am 60. Bare with me, whippersnappers.

I ain't gonna get naked with a 60-year-old man.

Edited July 3 by bolverk
I'll reconsider if you're a woman.

[DixonHur 10862]

1 minute ago, ChiTownDoc said:

The sun will probably come up tomorrow.  But it hasn't yet.  How do any of us really know?

"Laws change; people die; the land remains." – Abraham Lincoln

[Hookah Horns 2923]

43 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Yep and posting data about dubya leading gore or how Biden won in 2020 is irrelevant.  That was scary bad and there were already rumors that Joe isn’t all there.  Which honestly should be a requirement to be president 

Let's make not being a treasonous criminal a requirement while we're at it. Jesus fuck I can't believe this is where we are. It's like the choices just keep getting worse every 4 years. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6529]

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I ain't gonna get naked with a 60-year-old man.

 

[troph 24028]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

Being a member of the most loyal and pragmatic voting bloc in the Democratic Party, even I understand that if America refused to elect the most prepared and qualified white woman in 2016, there is nothing in today’s political climate that suggests we would elect any woman, black or white in 2024. Hell, we’re taking away women’s rights - not expanding them.

same with Pete, no way he could win (and from the voting bloc that might give y'all a run for your money). hey girl hey!

[elfenix 34127]

6 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

 

Beat me to it

[babysdaddy 2708]

2 hours ago, troph said:

btw the idea that Trump is Biden's, Hillary's or the liberals fault is fucking laughable. It's the Christians and the monied Republicans fault. he is a VERY compelling and competitive candidate not because of anything the liberals do or don't do but because he is a natural authoritarian strong man who is taking advantage of what was available on the conservative side of our Country.

'member when Obama eviscerated Trump at the WHC dinner?  I 'member (but yes, you're correct)

56 minutes ago, South Austin said:

But mostly dead.

[Js1 83677]

31 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

A couple hundred thousand people in 5 states matter.  And how the fuck is he getting those back?  

It's a lifetime until the election.

A good ABC interview on Friday, a fantastic DNC speech.  More attacks on Project 2025, reminders about Dobbs/etc.  More good econ news.  One or two fantastic hurricane responses.

[WhatTheBuck 28618]

This jibes pretty well with what I’ve been saying.

Kamala Harris top choice to replace Joe Biden if he steps aside, sources say

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/vp-harris-top-choice-replace-biden-election-race-if-he-steps-aside-sources-say-2024-07-03/

WASHINGTON, July 3 (Reuters) - Vice President Kamala Harris is the top alternative to replace U.S. President Joe Biden if he decides not to continue his reelection campaign, according to seven senior sources at the Biden campaign, the White House and the Democratic National Committee with knowledge of current discussions on the topic.

Biden's fumbling, sometimes-incoherent and widely-panned first-debate performance against Republican rival Donald Trump last week set off a wave of panic within the Democratic party over concerns that he may not be fit enough to serve a second term, and prompted calls for top aides to resign.

Some influential Democrats have floated alternatives to Biden besides Harris, including popular cabinet members and Democratic governors like Gavin Newsom from California, Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania. But trying to sidestep Harris is wishful thinking and would be nearly impossible, these sources, who did not wish to be named, said.

If named as the party nominee, Harris, 59, would take over money raised by the Biden campaign and inherit campaign infrastructure, the sources said. She also has the highest name recognition among all the alternatives, and the highest polling among Democrats who could seriously be considered a candidate, the sources said.

In a Reuters/Ipsos poll published Tuesday, Harris trailed Trump by one percentage point at 42% to 43%, a difference that was well within the poll's 3.5 percentage point margin of error, a showing statistically just as strong as Biden's.

In addition, she has already been vetted for national office and has survived intense scrutiny from Republicans, they said. Also, U.S. Representative Jim Clyburn, the man who was key to Biden's 2020 win, told MSNBC he would support Harris to be the Democratic nominee if Biden stepped aside.

"It's pretty near impossible to win the nomination over the vice president," said Michael Trujillo, a Democratic strategist from California who worked for Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2008 and 2016.

White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said on Tuesday that Biden just had a "bad night" at the debate and would continue to make his case for reelection to the American people. The Biden campaign deferred to Harris's team for comment on the story.

Harris's aides dismissed any talk of a Democratic ticket that doesn't include both Biden and Harris. "Vice President Harris looks forward to serving a second term with President Joe Biden," a statement from her office said.

Biden's campaign has amassed 3,894 delegates after state primaries, leaving only a few dozen "uncommitted" delegates outstanding. They are expected to formally nominate Biden later this month in a virtual meeting, ahead of the Democrats' nominating convention in August.

"All of the delegates are not just Joe Biden delegates, they are Kamala Harris delegates," Trujillo said, adding "she will have a sizable delegation and support in all 50 states on day one," he said.

Donna Brazile, the former interim chair of the Democratic National Committee, who has a key committee role at this year's Democratic National Convention in August, said the person who can step in right away, if Biden decides not to run, is Harris.

"People may have dreams of another superhero but there is a process and the last time I checked it's a Biden-Harris ticket, she's number two on the ticket," Brazile said, adding Biden remains the nominee for the Democratic party and "is not going anywhere."

Passing over the first Black and woman vice president for another candidate would lead to a backlash from Black and women voters who are key to any victory, several Democratic strategists said.

'IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE KAMALA'

Still, Harris has been sidestepped in a lot of the speculation since the debate because some influential Democrats have little faith she can beat Trump, four of the sources said.

The United States has never elected a woman president, and Harris has spent much of her time as vice president struggling to distinguish herself in a role that is by definition a supporting one. As recently as last year, many inside the White House and the Biden campaign privately worried she was a liability for the campaign.

Since then, Harris has managed to find her stride on the issue of abortion rights but her polling has not improved significantly. Harris's approval ratings hover under 40%, but according to recent polling highlighted by the Biden campaign, she and the president have similar odds of beating Trump.

The vice president has also been consistently targeted by Republicans and conservative media in attacks many allies consider sexist and racist.

Three Democratic donors, who have recently been pushing for Biden to step aside, also said this week they think it will be "impossible" to sidestep Harris. The donors had been floating Whitmer and Newsom's names as possible alternatives until the past weekend.

"There is a real conversation in the Democratic party about leadership right now, but fair to say, and I'm not thrilled about this... it will be impossible to ignore Kamala," said one of the donors.

Another donor said "she's nobody's choice, but yeah, nearly impossible."

Still, the president's reelection campaign is standing its ground, emboldened by a stronger performance by Biden during a scripted speech in North Carolina even as calls for him to step aside grow.

Stephanie Cutter, deputy campaign manager for former President Barack Obama, whose firm is on contract to produce the Democratic National Convention in August, said "President Biden is the nominee and he's going to remain the nominee."

"For those who are looking for some sort of interparty fight, be careful what you wish for because that would ensure a Trump victory," she said in a statement.

[David Dennison 17804]

46 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I think he'd listen to reason with enough pressure, but yeah that is step #1.

You think a lifelong politician at the apex of power is going to give up that power without a fight?

It's possible, but I don't think I'd bet on it.

[David Dennison 17804]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

It's a lifetime until the election.

A good ABC interview on Friday, a fantastic DNC speech.  More attacks on Project 2025, reminders about Dobbs/etc.  More good econ news.  One or two fantastic hurricane responses.

So what you're saying is, an 81 year old man who already shows signs of slowing down has to run the table until November.

RIDE OR DIE!!!!!

[Js1 83677]

I mean, if we are being serious about her -

Harris/Beshear (KY-GOV) - he's term-limited in 2027

Harris/Shapiro (PA-GOV)

Harris/Cooper (NC-GOV) - he's term-limited in 2024

Harris/Ossoff (GA-SEN)

Harris/Kelly (AZ-SEN)

Those are probably your best ticket options.  In my mind, at least.

['stache 21591]

Dear Leader vs Kamala Harris. A magastan wet dream. Thanks everyone, good work. 

[troph 24028]

1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I was going to say he was compelling because he grabs 'em by the pussy but I see what you're saying.

In all seriousness, this comes down to one party backing an odious piece of shit.  If they backed a sumbitch with any sense of ethics or duty to country this still would be painful, but it wouldn't be existential.

he's not an odious piece of shit or a pussy grabber to them. On the way to a trailhead near the continental divide, we drove through the town of Meredith, CO last weekend, population 25 maybe? Cletus was sitting outside his trailer with his dog and with no shirt on, eating something. He looked like the poster child (but an adult) for fetal alcohol syndrome. The place was a trash pile. I felt bad for his dog. The man was filthy dirty. Next door and set back a bit further was an older man. He had his shirt on, but he sat under a "covered porch" consisting of a tarp tied to the mobile home, this old man was sitting there doing nothing. Communities like these are dead, no hope, no opportunity and frankly there are less extreme examples of communities with no hope, but the number of white Americans living in poverty is shockingly high at 22 million according to my google search and when they hear someone say it's the illegals fault and that black president's fault, and the woke mob, and antifa, and America is horrible and I will make it great again for you Cletus and unnamed old guy sitting there, they eat that shit up.

 

Edited July 3 by troph

[Aqua Buddha 14258]

11 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

This jibes pretty well with what I’ve been saying.

Kamala Harris top choice to replace Joe Biden if he steps aside, sources say

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/vp-harris-top-choice-replace-biden-election-race-if-he-steps-aside-sources-say-2024-07-03/

WASHINGTON, July 3 (Reuters) - Vice President Kamala Harris is the top alternative to replace U.S. President Joe Biden if he decides not to continue his reelection campaign, according to seven senior sources at the Biden campaign, the White House and the Democratic National Committee with knowledge of current discussions on the topic.

Biden's fumbling, sometimes-incoherent and widely-panned first-debate performance against Republican rival Donald Trump last week set off a wave of panic within the Democratic party over concerns that he may not be fit enough to serve a second term, and prompted calls for top aides to resign.

Some influential Democrats have floated alternatives to Biden besides Harris, including popular cabinet members and Democratic governors like Gavin Newsom from California, Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania. But trying to sidestep Harris is wishful thinking and would be nearly impossible, these sources, who did not wish to be named, said.

If named as the party nominee, Harris, 59, would take over money raised by the Biden campaign and inherit campaign infrastructure, the sources said. She also has the highest name recognition among all the alternatives, and the highest polling among Democrats who could seriously be considered a candidate, the sources said.

In a Reuters/Ipsos poll published Tuesday, Harris trailed Trump by one percentage point at 42% to 43%, a difference that was well within the poll's 3.5 percentage point margin of error, a showing statistically just as strong as Biden's.

In addition, she has already been vetted for national office and has survived intense scrutiny from Republicans, they said. Also, U.S. Representative Jim Clyburn, the man who was key to Biden's 2020 win, told MSNBC he would support Harris to be the Democratic nominee if Biden stepped aside.

"It's pretty near impossible to win the nomination over the vice president," said Michael Trujillo, a Democratic strategist from California who worked for Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2008 and 2016.

White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said on Tuesday that Biden just had a "bad night" at the debate and would continue to make his case for reelection to the American people. The Biden campaign deferred to Harris's team for comment on the story.

Harris's aides dismissed any talk of a Democratic ticket that doesn't include both Biden and Harris. "Vice President Harris looks forward to serving a second term with President Joe Biden," a statement from her office said.

Biden's campaign has amassed 3,894 delegates after state primaries, leaving only a few dozen "uncommitted" delegates outstanding. They are expected to formally nominate Biden later this month in a virtual meeting, ahead of the Democrats' nominating convention in August.

"All of the delegates are not just Joe Biden delegates, they are Kamala Harris delegates," Trujillo said, adding "she will have a sizable delegation and support in all 50 states on day one," he said.

Donna Brazile, the former interim chair of the Democratic National Committee, who has a key committee role at this year's Democratic National Convention in August, said the person who can step in right away, if Biden decides not to run, is Harris.

"People may have dreams of another superhero but there is a process and the last time I checked it's a Biden-Harris ticket, she's number two on the ticket," Brazile said, adding Biden remains the nominee for the Democratic party and "is not going anywhere."

Passing over the first Black and woman vice president for another candidate would lead to a backlash from Black and women voters who are key to any victory, several Democratic strategists said.

'IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE KAMALA'

Still, Harris has been sidestepped in a lot of the speculation since the debate because some influential Democrats have little faith she can beat Trump, four of the sources said.

The United States has never elected a woman president, and Harris has spent much of her time as vice president struggling to distinguish herself in a role that is by definition a supporting one. As recently as last year, many inside the White House and the Biden campaign privately worried she was a liability for the campaign.

Since then, Harris has managed to find her stride on the issue of abortion rights but her polling has not improved significantly. Harris's approval ratings hover under 40%, but according to recent polling highlighted by the Biden campaign, she and the president have similar odds of beating Trump.

The vice president has also been consistently targeted by Republicans and conservative media in attacks many allies consider sexist and racist.

Three Democratic donors, who have recently been pushing for Biden to step aside, also said this week they think it will be "impossible" to sidestep Harris. The donors had been floating Whitmer and Newsom's names as possible alternatives until the past weekend.

"There is a real conversation in the Democratic party about leadership right now, but fair to say, and I'm not thrilled about this... it will be impossible to ignore Kamala," said one of the donors.

Another donor said "she's nobody's choice, but yeah, nearly impossible."

Still, the president's reelection campaign is standing its ground, emboldened by a stronger performance by Biden during a scripted speech in North Carolina even as calls for him to step aside grow.

Stephanie Cutter, deputy campaign manager for former President Barack Obama, whose firm is on contract to produce the Democratic National Convention in August, said "President Biden is the nominee and he's going to remain the nominee."

"For those who are looking for some sort of interparty fight, be careful what you wish for because that would ensure a Trump victory," she said in a statement.

That reads more like they're stuck with her vs "top choice."

Although, a Harris/Mark Kelly ticket is interesting and would likely win.

[Aqua Buddha 14258]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I mean, if we are being serious about her -

Harris/Beshear (KY-GOV) - he's term-limited in 2027

Harris/Shapiro (PA-GOV)

Harris/Cooper (NC-GOV) - he's term-limited in 2024

Harris/Ossoff (GA-SEN)

Harris/Kelly (AZ-SEN)

Those are probably your best ticket options.  In my mind, at least.

I like the Kelly ticket, especially with abortion being on the ballot in AZ as well.  They'd easily carry that and maybe GA with Harris.  Means they wouldn't have to run the table with PA, MI, and WI.  

All of those are good options, though. 

[Js1 83677]

1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Although, a Harris/Mark Kelly ticket is interesting and would likely win.

He's a badass national hero.

And his seat would have an interim put in it by a Dem gov in Hobbs.  Although a 2026 special for the rest of his term (until 2028)