2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Goredho 17164]

23 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Biden sent a 2 page letter to the House Dems saying he is firmly committed to staying in the race until the end. Saying the one job is to beat the Orange Cheeto. 
 

since we have really not seen anything like this: if he does not step aside will the convention be uneventful? Will everyone fall behind him/the talk of an open convention or blitz primaries is a pipe dream?

I would think if he doesn’t step aside everyone will fall in line behind him for the message. And for the job of beating Trump. I’m guessing that what happens. I would think the rhetoric dies down this week? Sort of a shut up and get in line type thing? 

If Biden doesn't step down, I don't think anyone is going to disrupt the convention.  The D faithful will put on a consolidated front for the cameras. The main effect of Biden staying in the race is that you won't see any enthusiasm for him from the people that don't identify as democrats, and you won't see money flowing in like it has from the BMD's that are growing disenfranchised with the Dems poor strategery.  What no one knows is how that donor and voter disenfranchisement is going to translate to vote totals in November.  In my circles in a light blue area of Colorado, it's going to cost Joe about 20% of the votes a young, moderate democrat would get.

[YGIFS 19445]

8 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

That’s like YGIFS thinking Rock the Vote isn’t 28 years old while making a reference to youth vote.

EDIT: Oh shit your reference is 40 years old

I know that’s decades old.  I use it as a metonym/macro placeholder for “get out younger voters.”  I berate points, I get it.  We all forget as very politically engaged folks with that luxury that most 20-something’s didn’t engage when we were in our 20’s and they still don’t.  They haven’t had a significant impact since Vietnam.  Plus “Rock the Vote” went downhill after they refused to let Frank Stallone headline. 
 

Now here’s a pickle to chew on.  Got an email this morning notifying me of heightened security at Biden’s appearance at LBJ in a week’s time.  They are anticipating lots of protestors so do this, park here, don’t do that, etc.  Five minutes later, story released across multiple outlets that Abbott and Eltife ordering UT to clamp down further on pro-Palestinian rallies/protests.  I’m thinking those two set this all into motion before the White House revealed Biden’s visit.  You’d think they’d wanna have more protests during Biden’s visit to make him look bad.  
 

This fucking simulation…

[Duane Moore 5236]

32 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Biden sent a 2 page letter to the House Dems saying he is firmly committed to staying in the race until the end. Saying the one job is to beat the Orange Cheeto. 
 

since we have really not seen anything like this: if he does not step aside will the convention be uneventful? Will everyone fall behind him/the talk of an open convention or blitz primaries is a pipe dream?

I would think if he doesn’t step aside everyone will fall in line behind him for the message. And for the job of beating Trump. I’m guessing that what happens. I would think the rhetoric dies down this week? Sort of a shut up and get in line type thing? 

Short of exercising the 25th Amendment, there is no leverage to force out a President who is simply convinced that everything is fine and he is the best person to beat Trump in November. He’ll play chicken with donors who threaten to withhold donations, knowing that if he stays in long enough, they’ll donate again because they don’t want Trump. His polling has dipped, but isn’t cratering and he thinks the race is a toss up. The people he trusts most are family and they are telling him to stay the course. He apparently carries a chip on his shoulder with the Obama and Clinton crowd, and any pressure they try to exert is likely to be counterproductive. 

For anyone interested in a good discussion of the above, watch Mark Halperin’s latest Zoom call from yesterday. 
 

 

[Pam Cummings 9416]

37 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

we all are.  and we will all be saying 'ha ha, if my guy would have won, we wouldn't have pulled out of nato/ended ACA/jammed the courts with 2.5GPA party hacks.  man, was i ever right.'

I refuse to be a part of any political discourse that holds one candidate to a different standard than the other. I refuse to sit by and watch people talk about Biden being unfit while the alternative candidate is a raving lunatic. I refuse to watch or consume any of this concern trolling that is happening in the media, who is only concerned with dividing so that they can make more money for their shareholders.

 

Biden is the same person he was before the debate. If you lot wanted another candidate you had your chance to make it happen.

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[mdmost 42316]

9 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Biden is the same person he was before the debate.

And a good portion of America is saying that's the problem. You binary people want to make it a if you don't support Biden, you support Trump which is simplistic bullshit. There's a lot of people out there (READ NOT IN HERE FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME) who just simply won't vote for either guy, which leads to Trump winning. 1 million people died, the economy was in the shitter, protests were happening all over the country, and still Biden barely won in the swing states in 2020. There is little enthusiasm for Biden now that he's even older. Lack of enthusiasm will lead to people just throwing up their hands and not giving a shit. So unless Biden figures out some magical message that galvanizes people to head to the polls for him versus staying home, we're going to all be turbofucked. It won't matter again if Biden wins the popular vote. He has to win Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, Michigan, and Wisconsin again. Color me skeptical that all of those are going to break for him again. PA is my biggest fear. 

No one in this fucking thread is voting for Trump or staying home. We all get it. We're just sad that this is what it has gotten to because Biden is finally showing the signs that everyone feared might crop up.  

Edited July 8 by mdmost

[Pam Cummings 9416]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

And a good portion of America is saying that's the problem. You binary people want to make it a if you don't support Biden, you support Trump which is simplistic bullshit. There's a lot of people out there (READ NOT IN HERE FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME) who just simply won't vote for either guy, which leads to Trump winning. 1 million people died, the economy was in the shitter, protests were happening all over the country, and still Biden barely won in the swing states in 2020. There is little enthusiasm for Biden now that he's even older. Lack of enthusiasm will lead to people just throwing up their hands and not giving a shit. So unless Biden figures out some magical message that galvanizes people to head to the polls for him versus staying home, we're going to all be turbofucked. 

No one in this fucking thread is voting for Trump or staying home. We all get it. We're just sad that this is what it has gotten to because Biden is finally showing the signs that everyone feared might crop up.  

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

 

Every news network on earth jumping on a guy because he stumbled in a "debate" where the 2 candidates argued about their golf scores for fucks sake. And not one outlet questions the sanity of Trump? It's all about Biden? GTFO.

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[Bateshorn 9542]

That letter is straight up “Fuck you, pay me”

 

The “you had a chance and chose not to run and I won the primary is such bullshit”. I’m sure Gretch, Newsom, Pritsker were calling around last fall looking for finance and got a stiff face palm from the BMDs, because the Biden people were twisting arms.

Edited July 8 by Bateshorn

[Vegas64 640]

1 minute ago, mdmost said:

And a good portion of America is saying that's the problem. You binary people want to make it a if you don't support Biden, you support Trump which is simplistic bullshit. There's a lot of people out there (READ NOT IN HERE FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME) who just simply won't vote for either guy, which leads to Trump winning. 1 million people died, the economy was in the shitter, protests were happening all over the country, and still Biden barely won in the swing states in 2020. There is little enthusiasm for Biden now that he's even older. Lack of enthusiasm will lead to people just throwing up their hands and not giving a shit. So unless Biden figures out some magical message that galvanizes people to head to the polls for him versus staying home, we're going to all be turbofucked. 

No one in this fucking thread is voting for Trump or staying home. We all get it. We're just sad that this is what it has gotten to because Biden is finally showing the signs that everyone feared might crop up.  

Well said.

I think we often forget that we are all college educated adults of above average means and who are well informed. That makes us, what, the top 10% of the citizenry? 

Think of the dumbest person you know, cut his IQ in half and then copy and paste that guy 200 million times and you have half the electorate.

[mdmost 42316]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

I don't need the media to tell me what my eyes clearly see. And I'm not the one you need to convince. That's the problem with the messaging this shitty party and its candidate puts out. I'm skeptical Biden is capable of delivering that message now. He couldn't do it on the largest stage he had. 

[Pam Cummings 9416]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I don't need the media to tell me what my eyes clearly see. And I'm not the one you need to convince. That's the problem with the messaging this shitty party and its candidate puts out. I'm skeptical Biden is capable of delivering that message now. He couldn't do it on the largest stage he had. 

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

 

Did your eyes and ears clearly see him being fine at speeches after the debate?

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[mdmost 42316]

2 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

I don't think he's dumb or senile. I think he's slowing down and his staff has done a pretty good job of controlling his appearances. The debate wasn't an environment they could control for him and he's not as quick as he once was. 2020 Biden would've knocked down more than half the bullshit Trump was slinging at the debate. I don't feel 2024 Biden is capable of that and there will be no more debates for him to win. Whomever is advising Trump to stand down is doing yeoman's work. That's how you win a campaign. 

[Bateshorn 9542]

10 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I don't see anyone connecting any dots of his old senility to bad policies or bad decisions being made?

 

Did your eyes and ears clearly see him being fine at speeches after the debate?

My eyes and ears saw the debacle in Afghanistan. My eyes and ears saw him swinging his dick around about Biden Bucks and then inflation took off.  My eyes and ears saw his unwavering support for Israel when a core constituency in Michigan is Arab, and Netanyahu is openly pining for Trumps return.  My eyes and ears saw a year of clown car negotiations about IRA before it came to fruition. 
 

He’s had a monumental presidency, but it’s also had some serious peaks and valley’s.  I’m politically plugged in and understand each of those things I listed is a nuanced, complex conversation.

To the half wit independents who are going to decide this  election, he’s the inflation guy who is Old. As. Fuck. 

Edited July 8 by Bateshorn

[Nicole44 21954]

My initial thought was (before listening to his biographer) that Biden would step aside and it would be all hands on deck with the party for Kamala and that the excitement would come from largely from the selection of her running mate. But after listening to Biden’s biographer I realized there was no way Biden would willingly step aside. 
 

as a former Republican I am keenly interested in what’s happening bc it’s historic. The idea of an open primary which now seems unlikely.

I was thinking what if Trump slipped on a banana peel? And he was incapacitated (permanently)What would happen this close to a convention? Would there be an open convention? 

but I guess all the talk in the press and mostly private rumblings are for naught because I do not think the delegates will take their support from Biden. So it will be a typical convention I guess. 
 

 

[Pam Cummings 9416]

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

My eyes and ears saw the debacle in Afghanistan. My eyes and ears saw him swinging his dick around about Biden Bucks and then inflation took off.  My eyes and ears saw his unwavering support for Israel when a core constituency in Michigan is an Arab, and Netanyahu is openly pining for Trumps return.  My eyes and ears saw a year of clown car negotiations about IRA before it came to fruition. 
 

He’s had a monumental presidency, but it’s also had some serious peaks and valley’s.  I’m politically plugged in and understand each of those things I listed is a nuanced, complex conversation.

To the half wit independents who are going to decide this  election, he’s the inflation guy who is Old. As. Fuck. 

Again I repeat: this isn't the fault of you or I. And I certainly respect that his presidency isn't perfect and there are things he could have or should have done better. Did all of those things you listed happen because he is old and senile? Or is it more nuanced? All I'm saying.

 

The blame for all of this lies with the media. They are more concerned with money than being informative. They don't push back on bullshit. They allow a landscape to exist where people call Biden old and senile but Trump is perfectly fine. This is really their fault. I think that a lot needs to change in our media landscape for shit to go back to normal.

[Bozo_Casanova 25822]

34 minutes ago, Goredho said:

If Biden doesn't step down, I don't think anyone is going to disrupt the convention.  The D faithful will put on a consolidated front for the cameras. The main effect of Biden staying in the race is that you won't see any enthusiasm for him from the people that don't identify as democrats, and you won't see money flowing in like it has from the BMD's that are growing disenfranchised with the Dems poor strategery.  What no one knows is how that donor and voter disenfranchisement is going to translate to vote totals in November.  In my circles in a light blue area of Colorado, it's going to cost Joe about 20% of the votes a young, moderate democrat would get.

yep

[Bozo_Casanova 25822]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

For the idiots in the back:  BIDEN WAS NEVER WILDLY POPULAR, EVEN IN 2020!!!

He’s lagging Dem senate candidates in swing states because they don’t like Biden despite hating the GOP.  The campaign and Dem leadership trying to gaslight the nation into Weekend at Bernie’s is fucking insane, and an indictment against both his person, administration, and party.  It’s essentially the equivalent of political climate denial. 
 

You can’t claim the Democrats are the party of serious governance when they are running a man in clear mental decline who will have to actually president for 4 more years if elected.  

and this

[Duane Moore 5236]

3 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Whomever is advising Trump to stand down is doing yeoman's work. That's how you win a campaign. 

I’m only half kidding when I say that the Republicans are probably looking for a way to push back their convention a few weeks to avoid shifting the focus to them. 

[aggie08 20345]

35 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

From his letter (very different tone):

This was a process open to anyone who wanted to run. Only three people chose to challenge me.

One fared so badly that he left the primaries to run as an independent. Another attacked me for being too old and was soundly defeated. The voters of the Democratic Party have voted. They have chosen me to be the nominee of the party.

Do we now just say this process didn't matter? That the voters don't have a say?

I decline to do that. 

Well, that's certainly some in denial bullshit. 

He's the sitting President and, as such, no one serious about the office ran challenged him. There were no debates. If was a guaranteed win, just like it's always been for the sitting President. He was also just "Grandpa Joe" a few months ago, not "let's start looking at homes, Joe".

He has to ask himself, "Would I have won the nomination in 2020 in my current condition (even with 4 years of incumbency and policy success)?" The answer to that is no.

[Goredho 17164]

32 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I refuse to be a part of any political discourse that holds one candidate to a different standard than the other. I refuse to sit by and watch people talk about Biden being unfit while the alternative candidate is a raving lunatic. I refuse to watch or consume any of this concern trolling that is happening in the media, who is only concerned with dividing so that they can make more money for their shareholders.

 

Biden is the same person he was before the debate. If you lot wanted another candidate you had your chance to make it happen.

 

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't think that not supporting Biden = supporting Trump. But I think the only way Trump wins is if there is a very public discussion about Biden being old and senile. Which is fucking stupid. That's what they want. Don't fall for that shit.

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  This is about making sure that a man like Trump doesn't take the steering wheel again by giving him an adversary that doesn't mumble and drool when matched up against him in a forum where voters can see them side by side in real time.  People are talking about Biden being old and senile because he showed himself to be that during a live debate against Trump where all Trump had to do was let Biden talk.  You and Biden can't control the narrative because people saw what they fucking saw.  If people aren't seeing what Trump is and talking about that, it's because Biden has failed to show them.  Because he was incapable of doing so in that debate.  He could only show himself to be old and feeble.  That's the reality we face, no matter what you want anyone else to believe.

I am incredibly disappointed and disgusted with the Democratic Party at the moment.  They and their base are showing that they also value their party over country.  That does not mean I'm going to vote for Trump, but it does mean I've lost faith in the opposition and I will not be contributing my energy and resources for them to continue to squander ineptly.  I'll save it for whatever succeeds them that hasn't proven itself to be a fucking clown show.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11511]

22 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

He's been the president for 4 years now. Don't you think if he was really dumb and senile shit would be a lot worse? I

he's never in public.  obama spent his time going to franklin bbq and chatting with letterman so there was no way to think he was hiding anything.  there isn't a lot of bad material on biden because there isn't a lot of material on biden.

[Pam Cummings 9416]

4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[Bateshorn 9542]

6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

 

This isn't about giving Trump a pass for being what he is.  This is about making sure that a man like Trump doesn't take the steering wheel again by giving him an adversary that doesn't mumble and drool when matched up against him in a forum where voters can see them side by side in real time.  People are talking about Biden being old and senile because he showed himself to be that during a live debate against Trump where all Trump had to do was let Biden talk.  You and Biden can't control the narrative because people saw what they fucking saw.  If people aren't seeing what Trump is and talking about that, it's because Biden has failed to show them.  Because he was incapable of doing so in that debate.  He could only show himself to be old and feeble.  That's the reality we face, no matter what you want anyone else to believe.

I am incredibly disappointed and disgusted with the Democratic Party at the moment.  They and their base are showing that they also value their party over country.  That does not mean I'm going to vote for Trump, but it does mean I've lost faith in the opposition and I will not be contributing my energy and resources for them to continue to squander ineptly.  I'll save it for whatever succeeds them that hasn't proven itself to be a fucking clown show.

This. I’ve been voting since 92.  This year, when I walk into my DC precinct, where my vote is largely meaningless, will be the most hold my nose and vote for a candidate I don’t believe in during my lifetime.  And that includes John Fucking Kerry.  

Edited July 8 by Bateshorn

[mdmost 42316]

5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

I'm sorry but a good portion of this thread watched the debate as it happened. We're not all under the sway of the rich elite media. Our own eyes saw what a lot of us feared about an 81 year old running for another 4 years in possibly the most crucial election in history. 

[Goredho 17164]

1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, arguably more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

Bullshit, it's about promoting a viable alternative to Trump so that Trump doesn't win.  But by all means, exercise your freedoms one last time to ignore this...

As this ascends to power...

 

[Pam Cummings 9416]

6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I'm sorry but a good portion of this thread watched the debate as it happened. We're not all under the sway of the rich elite media. Our own eyes saw what a lot of us feared about an 81 year old running for another 4 years in possibly the most crucial election in history. 

If you were really that concerned about it you would be upset at our media. You watched a debate where the candidates argued about fucking golf handicaps and talked about nothing important and your takeaway is "we gotta get Biden out of there" while the media did nothing to critique, criticize, or hold Trump to any sort of respectable standard. He does nothing but lie. But instead of digging in on that, we focus on Biden. In what other aspect of this world do we do that?

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[Pam Cummings 9416]

3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Bullshit, it's about promoting a viable alternative to Trump so that Trump doesn't win.  But by all means, exercise your freedoms one last time to ignore this...

As this ascends to power...

 

If we had respectable media in this country these wouldn't be the candidates in the first place.

[mdmost 42316]

11 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If you were really that concerned about it you would be upset at our media. You watched a debate where the candidates argued about fucking golf handicaps and talked about nothing important and your takeaway is "we gotta get Biden out of there" while the media did nothing to critique, criticize, or hold Trump to any sort of respectable standard.

I've accepted the media for the utter shitbags they are. I don't watch CNN in any way, shape, or form. I don't go to CNN.com. I watched on a separate NY Times feed that was doing real time fact checking. I watched Biden not be able to repudiate the lies Trump was throwing out IN THE DEBATE FORMAT HE AND HIS TEAM AGREED TO. I watched Biden get caught in the dumb discussion of golf handicaps. The media didn't ask him to debate golf prowess with Trump. 

And no, my takeaway is Biden did not help those in middle America and the swing states (read the only people who matter now) who think he's too old to be President. He fed the media the juicy steak they so desire. 2020 Joe Biden wouldn't have done that. I want him to step down and throw all his support behind Kamala. We're probably losing either way but we are definitely losing with Biden now with a course of action of his own doing. The media was never going to ignore one of the worst debate performances when voters already had a legitimate concern that the candidates are too old. 

Biden now feels like this meme. No, it's the voters who are wrong.

Edited July 8 by mdmost

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11511]

For fellow doomers: who is the dream person that steps in?  who is the plausible and upgrade?

 

for me: mark kelly, of AZ.  harris is the obvious number 2, but don't know that she's an upgrade in electability.  same with newsome.  too california-y. maybe hakeem jeffries or cory booker?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

A strongly worded but polite letter should fix everything! 

[Pam Cummings 9416]

10 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I've accepted the media for the utter shitbags they are. I don't watch CNN in any way, shape, or form. I don't go to CNN.com. I watched on a separate NY Times feed that was doing real time fact checking. I watched Biden not be able to repudiate the lies Trump was throwing out IN THE DEBATE FORMAT HE AND HIS TEAM AGREED TO. I watched Biden get caught in the dumb discussion of golf handicaps. The media didn't ask him to debate golf prowess with Trump. 

And no, my takeaway is Biden did not help those in middle America and the swing states (read the only people who matter now) who think he's too old to be President. He fed the media the juicy steak they so desire. 2020 Joe Biden wouldn't have done that. I want him to step down and throw all his support behind Kamala. We're probably losing either way but we are definitely losing with Biden now with a course of action of his own doing. The media was never going to ignore one of the worst debate performances when voters already had a legitimate concern that the candidates are too old. 

Biden now feels like this meme. No, it's the voters who are wrong.

Dude. When are you going to learn that it doesn't matter who the candidate is? The Republicans will just smear them. They will create 1000 lies, none of which will be properly debunked, and a good portion of america will blindly regugitate them. If you think there is some magical unicorn candidate out there that will unite everybody in 4 months, and is immune to republican smear campaigns, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Biden to me is the only one who has been able to succeed despite the lies. He is who he is. This last ditch effort to smear him and throw him out is very clearly a coordinated effort by the right and their media. 

 

And again, I'm not voting "for Biden". I am voting "for policies that aren't facism".

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[mdmost 42316]

Okay

[Loch Ness Monster 3529]

Yeah it may indeed be too late to switch horses but whose fault is that? Biden was hiding for the large part of four years and the first time he comes back into the limelight he delivers an F minus debate performance. Enough Biden voters from 2020 probably just say fuck it and stay home. Not that they were necessarily swayed by Dotard.

Edited July 8 by Loch Ness Monster

[cabowabo 4389]

13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

A strongly worded but polite letter should fix everything! 

It was the goodest that he could do.

[Dahobbs 17180]

6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Yeah it may indeed be too late to switch horses but whose fault is that? Biden was hiding for the large part of four years and the first time he comes back into the limelight he delivers an F minus debate performance. Enough Biden voters from 2020 probably just say fuck it and stay home. Not that they were necessarily swayed by Dotard.

You'd have been saying the same thing no matter which candidate was running. "Why change horses, everyone knew that ______ was weak because of [insert right wing talking point/lie]"

Learn from France y'all. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2685]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

I refuse to be a part of any political discourse that holds one candidate to a different standard than the other.

M'kay.

Kind of weird and not realistic, but you need to be you.

 

 

[aggie08 20345]

31 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

The media absolutely deserves culpability for not hammering home Trump's obvious and much more dangerous flaws and agenda. But the people mainlining cable news aren't the ones that I'm concerned about. Most of their minds are already made up.

Is it really THAT hard to believe that there are millions of 2020 Biden voters that weren't super adversely affected by the last Trump Presidency and/or forgot how truly terrible and incompetent his administration was--that will never bother to learn the details of Project 2025 or read Supreme Court rulings--that will just stay home in November because they have no motivation whatsoever to vote for a dude who won't be able to serve his full term and wasn't exactly lighting up the popularity charts before the debate?

[The Original Greaser Bob 2685]

It's my fault.  I missed the deadline to write a strongly worded letter.

I fucked up on keeping Mack Brown on for too long as well.

[aggie08 20345]

2 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It's my fault.  I missed the deadline to write a strongly worded letter.

I fucked up on keeping Mack Brown on for too long as well.

Bruh, you had one job.

[Chuckie Finster 22285]

13 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Biden to me is the only one who has been able to succeed despite the lies. He is who he is. This last ditch effort to smear him and throw him out is very clearly a coordinated effort by the right and their media.

He squeaked by in one election during extremely favorable conditions for a challenger.  He's had an incredibly successful presidency, yet has had historically low approval ratings almost the entire time.  He's the first Democrat to be trailing in July national polls since 2000.  The idea that he's some "real American" whisperer is based much more in hope than reality.

[Goredho 17164]

34 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If we had respectable media in this country these wouldn't be the candidates in the first place.

Yeah, and if dems had developed a stable of young moderates, etc... etc... etc...   All that I give a shit about is what can be done between now and November to keep Trump out of the White House.  The media isn't going to be reformed in that time.  The average voter is not going to be made more intelligent and have more time in their life to educate themselves about issues in the absence of a respectable media.  Foreign states will be working to promote the bad guys.  None of that is going to change without the next President making it a priority, so....

What the fuck can be done?

The one thing that can be done is that the dems can nominate a young, energetic moderate that will be able to point out Trump's faults in real time when given the opportunity and then they need to hit the campaign trail HARD.  In a way that Joe Biden is now incapable of.  Do that, and the dems win in a landslide.

Or, insist on playing a prevent defense to protect a lead that does not exist.  But don't expect people that are at least somewhat intelligent and educated to not call that out as strategic dumbfuckery.

[DixonHur 10837]

26 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Learn from France y'all. 

Learn what from France?  

[Dahobbs 17180]

1 minute ago, DixonHur said:

Learn what from France?  

To stop fighting with each other and unite against the right. 

[DixonHur 10837]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

To stop fighting with each other and unite against the right. 

France has like 12 or 13 parties.  We have 2 and a wild card.

Our political systems are apples and oranges.

[Goredho 17164]

Give us someone to unite behind.

[Loch Ness Monster 3529]

Biden himself needs to galvanize the left to get out and vote like their lives depend on it. Not happening at this point.

Biden said if he loses then oh well at least he tried. That's where were at.

[Pam Cummings 9416]

12 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, and if dems had developed a stable of young moderates, etc... etc... etc...   All that I give a shit about is what can be done between now and November to keep Trump out of the White House.  The media isn't going to be reformed in that time.  The average voter is not going to be made more intelligent and have more time in their life to educate themselves about issues in the absence of a respectable media.  Foreign states will be working to promote the bad guys.  None of that is going to change without the next President making it a priority, so....

What the fuck can be done?

The one thing that can be done is that the dems can nominate a young, energetic moderate that will be able to point out Trump's faults in real time when given the opportunity and then they need to hit the campaign trail HARD.  In a way that Joe Biden is now incapable of.  Do that, and the dems win in a landslide.

Or, insist on playing a prevent defense to protect a lead that does not exist.  But don't expect people that are at least somewhat intelligent and educated to not call that out as strategic dumbfuckery.

Yeah man. The strategy of "going high when they go low" and "hey let's continue to hold our guys to some weird higher standard than what the Republicans are doing" is going awesome for the dems.

Edited July 8 by Pam Cummings

[Nicole44 21954]

“President Joe Biden defended his place at the top of the Democratic ticket Monday in a surprise television interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” after more lawmakers and donors came forward over the weekend with concerns about his reelection bid.

“I’m not going anywhere,” Biden said in the phone interview. “I absolutely believe that I am the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in 2024.”

“I’m getting so frustrated by the elites in the party” calling on him to step down, the president fumed. “I don’t care what the millionaires think.”

Biden insisted to hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski that the concerns of his wealthy backers would not dictate his political future.

“I want their support, but that’s not the reason I’m running,” Biden said. “I’m not running about what they think and what they care about. And by the way, you don’t see a whole hell of a lot of them flocking to Trump. You don’t see a whole lot of CEOs flocking to Trump.”

“I’m not going to explain any more about what I should or shouldn’t do,” the president added defiantly. “I am running. I am running,”

——————-

I saw the segment. Very feisty. Not quite yelling but angry tone. Had this been done the morning after the debate maybe it’s a different ballgame. I don’t know. I do know is that it appeared as though for six days (bc of the holiday) after the debate that they had no answer. Waiting on the Friday George interview which mostly didn't help him. 
 

I don’t see more people flocking to Trump. The main concern is voters dropping from Biden. Not voting. Looking elsewhere. 
 

I am not a fixer. Obviously not a political strategist but I thought after the debate the best hope was for him to take some time after the debate and announce he was stepping aside and Kamala would have the full weight of the White House behind her. And campaign in earnest for her. As her campaign floats the names of the VP candidates. Making that sort of an open process.  That I felt was the best hope. 
 

the problem with Biden imo is the mental image we were left with of him in the debate. So he’s like a zoo animal now on display. Every misstep will be magnified. Every gaff and every sentence scrutinized.
 

Is it about his inner circle + his pride? Or is it a sincere belief that no one else can beat Trump? 

[Dahobbs 17180]

3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

France has like 12 or 13 parties.  We have 2 and a wild card.

Our political systems are apples and oranges.

 

3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Give us someone to unite behind.

Sigh. Again, you'll find the flaw in anyone. Or someone else will. It doesn't matter when people just want to bitch. 

[DixonHur 10837]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Sigh. Again, you'll find the flaw in anyone. Or someone else will. It doesn't matter when people just want to bitch. 

I understand your frustration, we're all frustrated... but you can't be this clueless.  

[Skipper 5961]

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

 

 

The blame for all of this lies with the media. They are more concerned with money than being informative. They don't push back on bullshit. They allow a landscape to exist where people call Biden old and senile but Trump is perfectly fine. This is really their fault. I think that a lot needs to change in our media landscape for shit to go back to normal.

Fuck that.  It isn't the media's fault he completely embarrassed himself in the debate pretty much proving the narrative (that already existed) that he is too old to run again 100% correct.