2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13317]

At least we can remove SC from the election narrative now. How they vote in the general is already decided.

[tx 3 putt 75536]

[atomheartbevo 89046]

He just needs to start crying.  That’s all that’s left for him to do.  Start crying and ask for the manager. This is the leader of the GOP.  

[Gatorubet 29772]

I thought I would drop this day brighter. That’s 1 million olds no longer pushing the lever.

We know that old voters are chronic voters, we know that old voters vote in a percentage greater than any other demographic, and we know that old voters tend to vote for Trump.   I see no reason to assume that those deaths spared battleground states -  so those numbers may become relevant in November of this year.

 

Edited February 25 by Gatorubet

[tx 3 putt 75536]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I thought I would drop this day brighter. That’s 1 million olds no longer pushing the lever.

We know that old voters are chronic voters, we know that old voters vote in a percentage greater than any other demographic, and we know that old voters tend to vote for Trump.   I see no reason to assume that those deaths spared battleground states -  so those numbers may become relevant in November of this year.

 

maga gqp / dam patrick - they were going to die anyway !!!!

[Voldemort86 2241]

5 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I thought I would drop this day brighter. That’s 1 million olds no longer pushing the lever.

We know that old voters are chronic voters, we know that old voters vote in a percentage greater than any other demographic, and we know that old voters tend to vote for Trump.   I see no reason to assume that those deaths spared battleground states -  so those numbers may become relevant in November of this year.

 

I’ll say it out loud ( on here anyway). As someone who frequently worries about overpopulation and do we have enough food / water / resources to go around?
 

I was glad covid killed a lot of people. Look at the generations right after world war 2. Things were pretty prosperous for the most part. What was it that Americans had in the 1950’s-1990’s that they don’t have as much of anymore?  Opportunity…….

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

user name checks

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

covid deaths are under .3% of the country.  assume that means .3% of voters, which seems fair as it skews old.  if you assume those are 2-1 Republicans, that means a .1% D gain.  no state was within .1% in 2020 (GA smallest at .24%). 

note that you might not be able to assume any net vote change because early deaths were very urban.  it wasn't until later in the pandemic that they went rural/anti-vax folks.

[Neonmoon 38126]

37 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

Look at the generations right after world war 2. Things were pretty prosperous for the most part. What was it that Americans had in the 1950’s-1990’s that they don’t have as much of anymore?  Opportunity…….

Americans didn’t have more opportunity because a bunch of men died during WW2. It was because everyone paid higher taxes, and we expanded access to housing, education, and healthcare with the GI Bill, Social Security Act, and Civil Rights Act. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Americans didn’t have more opportunity because a bunch of men died during WW2. It was because everyone paid higher taxes, and we expanded access to housing, education, and healthcare with the GI Bill, Social Security Act, and Civil Rights Act. 

and because the rest of the industrial world was fucked.

Edited February 26 by BehoId, The Underminer!

[BamaATL 16252]

25 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

covid deaths are under .3% of the country.  assume that means .3% of voters, which seems fair as it skews old.  if you assume those are 2-1 Republicans, that means a .1% D gain.  no state was within .1% in 2020 (GA smallest at .24%). 

note that you might not be able to assume any net vote change because early deaths were very urban.  it wasn't until later in the pandemic that they went rural/anti-vax folks.

Got me interested in the idea that deaths will greatly impact this, and based on what I've found I don't think it will be as large as we were hoping.  Basically, about 3.2 million people per year died between 2016 and present, basically about 24 to 26 million (which includes a Covid bump).  Of that group, 80% were 65 and older, so 20 million.  Of that group, about 15 million were registered voters, which skewed 53% Republican.  Basically, it came down to 8 million Republican voters to 7 million Democratic.  1 million votes sounds like a lot, but divided across the states, its not as large as I might have believed prior.  

All that makes some pretty big assumptions, perhaps foremost that things are stagnant, and that as a new group graduates into an elder population they automatically behave exactly the same way as their predecessors.  Obviously, none of that is true.  

Bottom line, counting on them dying out isn't going really make a big difference; and if we were, we needed several million more deaths than we got.  

[BamaATL 16252]

18 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

and because the rest of the industrial world was fucked.

Pretty easy to rule the roost when the rest of the world is a smoldering heap of ash.  

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

7 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Got me interested in the idea that deaths will greatly impact this, and based on what I've found I don't think it will be as large as we were hoping.  Basically, about 3.2 million people per year died between 2016 and present, basically about 24 to 26 million (which includes a Covid bump).  Of that group, 80% were 65 and older, so 20 million.  Of that group, about 15 million were registered voters, which skewed 53% Republican.  Basically, it came down to 8 million Republican voters to 7 million Democratic.  1 million votes sounds like a lot, but divided across the states, its not as large as I might have believed prior.  

All that makes some pretty big assumptions, perhaps foremost that things are stagnant, and that as a new group graduates into an elder population they automatically behave exactly the same way as their predecessors.  Obviously, none of that is true.  

Bottom line, counting on them dying out isn't going really make a big difference; and if we were, we needed several million more deaths than we got.  

i think one thing is that maybe there will be more stagnation this time than typical because the candidates are identical to last time. that might be a strong opposing force to "people vote like their age."

[BamaATL 16252]

8 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

i think one thing is that maybe there will be more stagnation this time than typical because the candidates are identical to last time. that might be a strong opposing force to "people vote like their age."

The conclusion I came to, I believe rightly (I wrong on plenty though), is that it really all does come down to young people (29 and younger) and their participation.  Pretty much the rest of us are more or less a known quantity.  I've been generally indifferent the Taylor Swift thing, as I don't care about her music, nor do I really care about the NFL; but in all honesty, someone like her can legitimately make a huge difference.  That percentage of the population being engaged tilts the scales hugely in our favor, far more so than deaths on the other side.  We just have to do whatever we can to get them engaged, either pissed off or excited to be a part of it, doesn't matter which really.  

[Gatorubet 29772]

50 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

covid deaths are under .3% of the country.  assume that means .3% of voters, which seems fair as it skews old.  if you assume those are 2-1 Republicans, that means a .1% D gain.  no state was within .1% in 2020 (GA smallest at .24%). 

note that you might not be able to assume any net vote change because early deaths were very urban.  it wasn't until later in the pandemic that they went rural/anti-vax folks.

?????  The problem here is that you give the same percentage to general population losses as you do to registered voter losses. 

22% of the country are minors, so they aren’t voting at all. United States population statistics also include noncitizens, whether legal or illegal.  Non-citizens aren’t voting.    

31% of registered voters 65 and over voted between 2018 and 2022.  11% of registered voters 18 to 29 voted in that same time period.   

And no offense, I have no idea the point you’re trying to make in the last paragraph. Whether they died early or whether they died late, they’re dead and not voting. Which affects the demographics of voting.  Living older voters are worth about three to one compared to living younger voters.  Olds dirt napping would seem to have a greater impact. 

[Pato del Muerto 52114]

7 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Non-citizens aren’t voting.    

Do some research 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

?????  The problem here is that you give the same percentage to general population losses as you do to registered voter losses. 

22% of the country are minors, so they aren’t voting at all. United States population statistics also include noncitizens, whether legal or illegal.  Non-citizens aren’t voting.    

31% of registered voters 65 and over voted between 2018 and 2022.  11% of registered voters 18 to 29 voted in that same time period.   

And no offense, I have no idea the point you’re trying to make in the last paragraph. Whether they died early or whether they died late, they’re dead and not voting. Which affects the demographics of voting.  Living older voters are worth about three to one compared to living younger voters.  Olds dirt napping would seem to have a greater impact. 

"dying at different times" is to remind our fellow readers that it wasn't just antivax folks.  most folks that died early had more D demographic traits.  Most people that died later didn't.

 

early pandemic

Figure 1. Age-adjusted COVID-19 death rates, by urbanicity of county of residence: United States, 2020

 

 

this flipped later

In the second year of the COVID-19 pandemic, relative excess mortality increased in rural counties in the U.S. while decreasing in metropolitan ones, according to a new study led by the University of Pennsylvania and Boston University. Published in Science Advances, it’s the first-ever study showing monthly excess deaths at the county level for the first two years of the pandemic. 

 

 

i post those because people seem to assume that covid deaths naturally mean huge net D votes.  there might be some net D affect, but we have to remember that we have a bit of a recency bias here and forgot who it was killing at the outset.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

Koch's are evidently out on Nikki

[Surly Bevo 24604]

36 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The conclusion I came to, I believe rightly (I wrong on plenty though), is that it really all does come down to young people (29 and younger) and their participation.  Pretty much the rest of us are more or less a known quantity.  I've been generally indifferent the Taylor Swift thing, as I don't care about her music, nor do I really care about the NFL; but in all honesty, someone like her can legitimately make a huge difference.  That percentage of the population being engaged tilts the scales hugely in our favor, far more so than deaths on the other side.  We just have to do whatever we can to get them engaged, either pissed off or excited to be a part of it, doesn't matter which really.  

So Taylor Swift can be the RoaringKitty to Joe Biden's GME.

"I like the Prez"

💎💎💎💎💎💎

Edited February 26 by Surly Bevo

[Gatorubet 29772]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

and because the rest of the industrial world was fucked.

Yeah. Being the only large industrial nation left that wasn’t bombed to shit was a slight advantage.  Having no competitors was a wonderful thing.

Being an old, I remember cartoons from the 50s and 60s.   You would see references to “made in Japan”, made in a mocking, funny way to indicate that everything that comes out of Japan was a piece of crap.   That is bound to confuse people today, but the reference was valid, because the only thing that Japan was exporting was rinky dink toys, and things like drink umbrellas.  Their crap was mostly sold at the five and dime.   Like I said, we had destroyed their construction and shipbuilding and aircraft and auto factories - so they made and sold whatever they could to get revenue. 

The only downside to a great economy like that is a world war that takes out 60 million people. 

 

[Gatorubet 29772]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

i post those because people seem to assume that covid deaths naturally mean huge net D votes.  there might be some net D affect, but we have to remember that we have a bit of a recency bias here and forgot who it was killing at the outset.

Quote

Results  Between January 1, 2018, and December 31, 2021, there were 538 159 individuals in Ohio and Florida who died at age 25 years or older in the study sample. The median age at death was 78 years (IQR, 71-89 years). Overall, the excess death rate for Republican voters was 2.8 percentage points, or 15%, higher than the excess death rate for Democratic voters (95% prediction interval [PI], 1.6-3.7 percentage points). After May 1, 2021, when vaccines were available to all adults, the excess death rate gap between Republican and Democratic voters widened from −0.9 percentage point (95% PI, −2.5 to 0.3 percentage points) to 7.7 percentage points (95% PI, 6.0-9.3 percentage points) in the adjusted analysis; the excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters. The gap in excess death rates between Republican and Democratic voters was larger in counties with lower vaccination rates and was primarily noted in voters residing in Ohio.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617

JAMA

[tokamak 6324]

56 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Koch's are evidently out on Nikki

[BamaATL 16252]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

So Taylor Swift can be the RoaringKitty to Joe Biden's GME.

"I like the Prez"

💎💎💎💎💎💎

I'd certainly take it if she is willing.  Nothing gets the kids riled up like ole Joe on his own (and to be clear, I like Biden and think he's been very effective).  That having been said, if we are looking down the road, in my opinion, we need much younger leadership in 2028.   Harris is 60 right now, and will be 64 come that time.  She's considered young by comparison, but that ain't young.  Someone needs to emerge between now and then in the their 40s.  I hope we find a new generational leader of the Democratic Party of that age group between now and then.  

[South Austin 51681]

Interesting piece this morning on NPR about the significant Arab population in Michigan that is organizing an "uncommitted" vote against Biden in the Democratic primary, and is having a hard time voting for him, even when faced with the stark reality that Trump is a way worse option.  The war in Gaza is the issue for them in the election, and there's a concern that it may ultimately drive their vote in November and help sway Michigan for Trump.

[mdmost 42491]

Then I will feel no emotion for them when the Muslim ban returns, Muslims with work visas and resident cards are deported, and their families are broken up. If you think Biden is so awful that you hand a state and possible victory to Trump then be ready for the utter hell you just unleashed that will affect you a lot more than me, at least initially.  You think Gaza is bad now, just wait till Trump encourages Israel to do whatever it wants. 

Edited February 26 by mdmost

[hookem2010 2554]

Listening to that, followed immediately by the pod save America episode discussing those in Trump's inner circle pushing for a much stronger Christian nationalist agenda, doesn't have me feeling great this morning. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

9 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Interesting piece this morning on NPR about the significant Arab population in Michigan that is organizing an "uncommitted" vote against Biden in the Democratic primary, and is having a hard time voting for him, even when faced with the stark reality that Trump is a way worse option.  The war in Gaza is the issue for them in the election, and there's a concern that it may ultimately drive their vote in November and help sway Michigan for Trump.

Welcome to the Leopard Eating Faces party!

(you're being jailed or deported)

[Hugo Stiglitz 23247]

13 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Interesting piece this morning on NPR about the significant Arab population in Michigan that is organizing an "uncommitted" vote against Biden in the Democratic primary, and is having a hard time voting for him, even when faced with the stark reality that Trump is a way worse option.  The war in Gaza is the issue for them in the election, and there's a concern that it may ultimately drive their vote in November and help sway Michigan for Trump.

I actually don’t mind the Arab population positioning themselves this way at this time IF it’s in an effort to move Biden away from lockstep alignment with Netanyahu.  If Biden’s election is dependent on the votes of the Michigan Muslim population then what does that say about the viability of the Biden campaign? 

[South Austin 51681]

23 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Then I will feel no emotion for them when the Muslim ban returns, Muslims with work visas and resident cards are deported, and their families are broken up. If you think Biden is so awful that you hand a state and possible victory to Trump then be ready for the utter hell you just unleashed that will affect you a lot more than me, at least initially.  You think Gaza is bad now, just wait till Trump encourages Israel to do whatever it wants. 

The reporter asked one of the Arab Americans organizing the "uncommitted" movement, "What is your response to the argument that the alternative to Joe Biden is much worse for the Arab and Muslim community?"  The man answered along the lines of, "The person who has lost 30 family members in Gaza has no concept of anything worse than that."  

I'm not saying that's a good answer, but it shows how one demographic might make the Gaza war a singular issue that drives their vote, without the ability to see the bigger picture.  Maybe they'll change their mind when November approaches and Trump goes all in on Israel and makes more idiotic comments about the Arab and Muslim population in general.  But that NPR piece didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Edited February 26 by South Austin

[Chuckie Finster 22342]

38 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Interesting piece this morning on NPR about the significant Arab population in Michigan that is organizing an "uncommitted" vote against Biden in the Democratic primary, and is having a hard time voting for him, even when faced with the stark reality that Trump is a way worse option.  The war in Gaza is the issue for them in the election, and there's a concern that it may ultimately drive their vote in November and help sway Michigan for Trump.

There are 200k Muslims in Muslim. There are 100k Jews. 

I understand the importance of Michigan, but no President will reshape their entire policy over a gain of AT MOST 100k votes.  And the inconvenient truth is that short of Biden personally assassinating Bibi, there likely isn't a realistic action that he can take that will satisfy most of them.  The quote from the person who has lost 30 family members shows that they are not thinking rationally about this, nor should they be tbh.

[YGIFS 19445]

If it was any other state, this would be a non issue from an electoral standpoint and I would support their viewpoint.  But we are talking about Michigan. The same movement is going to start in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin within days.  They’re playing with fire and you all know it.  50,000 or 100,000 Muslim voters go against Biden or stay home in a general in one or more Of these states and that’s the kinda damage you don’t walk away from.  

[Mdhorn 5837]

56 minutes ago, South Austin said:

The reporter asked one of the Arab Americans organizing the "uncommitted" movement, "What is your response to the argument that the alternative to Joe Biden is much worse for the Arab and Muslim community?"  The man answered along the lines of, "The person who has lost 30 family members in Gaza has no concept of anything worse than that."  

I'm not saying that's a good answer, but it shows how one demographic might make the Gaza war a singular issue that drives their vote, without the ability to see the bigger picture.  Maybe they'll change their mind when November approaches and Trump goes all in on Israel and makes more idiotic comments about the Arab and Muslim population in general.  But that NPR piece didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

It's interesting how all the different groups that make up the Democrats have their issues and breaking points with Biden, whereas the others side threatens their freedoms and livelihood altogether--restricting voting access, removed affirmative action, upend affordable care act, women's rights, deregulate agencies that restrict pollution and consumer protections, upping retirement age to 70 while still unraveling SS and Medicare/caid, pro predatory loans, privatizing education, usurp democracy.   We'll show the libtards--we'll bleed out all of our collective rights to fuck them, while decrying both sides.  

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11561]

2 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

unraveling SS

they explicitly don't want that.

 

oh, you mean social security.

[mdmost 42491]

1 hour ago, South Austin said:

The reporter asked one of the Arab Americans organizing the "uncommitted" movement, "What is your response to the argument that the alternative to Joe Biden is much worse for the Arab and Muslim community?"  The man answered along the lines of, "The person who has lost 30 family members in Gaza has no concept of anything worse than that."  

I'm not saying that's a good answer, but it shows how one demographic might make the Gaza war a singular issue that drives their vote, without the ability to see the bigger picture.  Maybe they'll change their mind when November approaches and Trump goes all in on Israel and makes more idiotic comments about the Arab and Muslim population in general.  But that NPR piece didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy.

And I understand that thinking and I truly empathise with people who have lost loved ones in Gaza. Now how about your loved ones here whose status might be questioned when Stephen Miller takes over again and wants to expel all non-citizens, people here for work, people seeking asylum, people fleeing war torn areas? What about them? What about the future generations of your family that will no longer be allowed to live in this country? You're fine with putting them at risk? Again, be careful what you wish for then in your quest to show Joe Biden something. 

[Zonahorn 7972]

 

 

Looking forward to the middle of summer when these early polls are all MAGA has to cling to.

Edited February 26 by Zonahorn

[Neonmoon 38126]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I actually don’t mind the Arab population positioning themselves this way at this time IF it’s in an effort to move Biden away from lockstep alignment with Netanyahu.  If Biden’s election is dependent on the votes of the Michigan Muslim population then what does that say about the viability of the Biden campaign? 

It doesn't say shit about the Biden campaign. It says a whole lot of people in this country are stupid

[tokamak 6324]

Someone should ask those big brains who they think Netanyahu would prefer in the oval office.

[Neonmoon 38126]

Candidate 1 - Supports Israel but works to get aid to Palestinians and ceasefires for evacuations 

Candidate 2 - Supports Israel and hopes Israel kills all the Palestinians. Also wants to institute a Muslim ban in the United States. 

I'm not going to vote for Candidate 1 because doing so would support policies against my people. (I'm going to ignore that by not voting, it helps elect Candidate 2)

Right...

[mdmost 42491]

I saw a humorous line in the story about this where the people who said they will be uncommitted to Biden in November aren't as worried about Trump's authoritarian style because "they can find ways to undermine that". Okay, sure. Let's see how your protesting works when he invokes the Insurrection Act. Remember how things worked when BLM was protesting outside the White House in 2020? Yeah and he will have no one standing in the way of clearing you all out with force. No Joint Chiefs or Secretary of Defense telling him "sir, you can't attack American citizens who are protesting". It will all be yes men or worse, people who want to harm you because you're Muslim. You may not fear Trump's authoritarian style but you damn sure better fear what Stephen Miller has planned for you. I'm not sure exactly what fantasy land these Michigan people are living in. 

Edited February 26 by mdmost

[Red Five 40450]

"I'm not 100% on board with every aspect of Sark's management of Texas football. Therefore, I'm in support of firing him and hiring Jerry Sandusky." 

[Foosters 17638]

2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I saw a humorous line in the story about this where the people who said they will be uncommitted to Biden in November aren't as worried about Trump's authoritarian style because "they can find ways to undermine that". Okay, sure. Let's see how your protesting works when he invokes the Insurrection Act. Remember how things worked when BLM was protesting outside the White House in 2020? Yeah and he will have no one standing in the way of clearing you all out with force. No Joint Chiefs or Secretary of Defense telling him "sir, you can't attack American citizens who are protesting". It will all be yes men or worse, people who want to harm you because you're Muslim. You may not fear Trump's authoritarian style but you damn sure better fear what Stephen Miller has planned for you. I'm not sure exactly what fantasy land these Michigan people are living in. 

how did they find ways to undermine Trump's ban on Muslims entering the country the first time? Snuck through the border?

[Dutchrudder 11071]

Trump would probably be using the Air Force to drop the bombs in Gaza. McConnell would claim it saves money by not wasting resources shipping the bombs to Israel, and therefore we can afford cutting taxes on the 1% even more! 

All kidding aside, if this muslim movement does keep voters from going Biden in November and it does swing the election to Trump, there is a very real and likely possibility that in doing so they will be allowing even more Palestinians to die as Trump's admin removes any chance for a ceasefire and openly encourages the war. Hell he would probably liken Gaza to our southern border and use that to campaign for militarizing it and bombing Mexico. 

Edited February 26 by Dutchrudder

[Js1 83627]

13 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

there is a very real and likely possibility that in doing so they will be allowing even more Palestinians to die a

They’ll be signing their own death warrants. It’s not going to be pretty for them. 

[Rimbo 25248]

https://www.threads.net/@joebiden/post/C30UzxEgD1C/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

This is what I'm talking about.

The GOP blew up the border as this big issue. Then Trump got the Speaker to sabotage the very border deal that would've solved real problems because "it makes the other side look good" (which is nonsense)... and just handed the Democrats and amazing gift.

It started with the congressional race in New York, and Joe's taking it national now. "We had a plan to solve the border and the Republicans sunk it."

[Aqua Buddha 14256]

1 hour ago, Zonahorn said:

 

 

Looking forward to the middle of summer when these early polls are all MAGA has to cling to.

It's like Aggy and recruiting.  

[Zonahorn 7972]

9 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

It's like Aggy and recruiting.  

I didn’t lose, I ran out of votes!

[Slacks 6722]

So... I always wonder, and maybe one of you can explain... How is it that any minority group is the mover of the election?

On one hand, the comment is that X minority community doesn't vote. On the other hand, that same minority community is supposed to deliver a win to the D party.

To me, it always sounds like a way to keep minorities as 'them'.

Look at the last page or two of the thread... Muslims are a threat to the Ds... And should vote D because they're going to cause Trump to win.

If Trump wins, it won't be because 100,000 Muslims in Michigan or 10,000 black people in middle Ohio didn't vote Biden. It will be because millions of the majority that actually control the vote will have spoken and chosen Trump.

Why does this charade exist and get repeated?

[Mdhorn 5837]

3 minutes ago, Slacks said:

So... I always wonder, and maybe one of you can explain... How is it that any minority group is the mover of the election?

On one hand, the comment is that X minority community doesn't vote. On the other hand, that same minority community is supposed to deliver a win to the D party.

To me, it always sounds like a way to keep minorities as 'them'.

Look at the last page or two of the thread... Muslims are a threat to the Ds... And should vote D because they're going to cause Trump to win.

If Trump wins, it won't be because 100,000 Muslims in Michigan or 10,000 black people in middle Ohio didn't vote Biden. It will be because millions of the majority that actually control the vote will have spoken and chosen Trump.

Why does this charade exist and get repeated?

I think it's because the swing states were so narrowly won, and while no group by themselves can probably change much, they can collectively with all their varied single issues.  

[mdmost 42491]

Because Presidential politics is all about winning specific states now. Blue states are firmly blue. Red states are firmly red. Florida used to be the key state to win. It cost Gore the election in 2000. It, like Texas, will be red for the rest of our lives. So now the former Rust Belt holds most of the cards. Michigan and Pennsylvania will decide Trump or Biden. Ohio is a lost cause, it will stay red. So, yeah it's a problem if 100,000 Muslims in Michigan who voted for Biden in 2020 decide to sit out if he doesn't win the states he won in 2000. 

The states that decided the last election were Nevada, Arizona, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. You want to switch to a winner take all popular vote, I'm for it. 

Edited February 26 by mdmost

[Neonmoon 38126]

2 minutes ago, Slacks said:

So... I always wonder, and maybe one of you can explain... How is it that any minority group is the mover of the election?

On one hand, the comment is that X minority community doesn't vote. On the other hand, that same minority community is supposed to deliver a win to the D party.

To me, it always sounds like a way to keep minorities as 'them'.

Look at the last page or two of the thread... Muslims are a threat to the Ds... And should vote D because they're going to cause Trump to win.

If Trump wins, it won't be because 100,000 Muslims in Michigan or 10,000 black people in middle Ohio didn't vote Biden. It will be because millions of the majority that actually control the vote will have spoken and chosen Trump.

Why does this charade exist and get repeated?

Voters can influence the election, whether in a minority group or in the majority group. 

100K Muslims or 100K white Anglo-Saxon protestants. It doesn't really matter. 

Michigan 2020 saw Biden win Michigan by 154,188 votes. 

So if ANY community with 100K is voting Republican, Democrat, or NOT voting at all, it will influence the election. 

As to why Muslims are singled out as opposed to the 100K WASPs. You are probably thinking why don't people say "fuck those 100K WASPs for not voting for Biden" as opposed to assigning blame to the Muslims. The difference is the 100K WASPs are in the majority, and nothing bad will happen to them when the Leopard eats their faces. Yes, fuck them for not voting for Biden, sure, we all agree, but the Leopard isn't going to eat their face. The Leopard is definitely going to eat the Muslim faces. The Leopard will not only ban them from entering the country, he will ask Israel to kill all of them in the Middle East. He might even try to revoke their citizenship in the US, because he's a Leopard and that's what Leopards do. The 100K WASPs won't face any of those consequences, so while the WASPs do suck, and should face consternation for fucking us all over, logically, it deserves less consternation as they will face less consequences.