2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[troph 24024]

Just now, Js1 said:

Now is the time to fight about it. After the convention, just come together and work assess off to keep Trump from winning. End of story. 

dems have until their convention to get this shit right and in the meantime they better be running on generic Dem vs. Trump to get the anti-trump sentiment higher. I'm really not expecting a well thought out strategy nor a well executed strategy between now and then anyway. it's a cluster fuck and everyone is to blame (read that last part as howard hughes with the music to make yourself feel better).

[UTGrad98 2221]

Do you think biden has thought what his legacy would be if he runs and loses to trump with even 10% of project 2025 making it into legislation? 

[Biff Tannen 45151]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think it's reasonable to look at margin of victory in certain states.  It was mighty slim in a few cases.

Arizona -- < 11K for Biden

Wisconsin -- < 21K for Biden

Georgia -- < 12K for Biden (hence the phone call)

Does that tell the whole story?  No, but neither does 81M vs 74M.

Yeah, the electoral college is doing a bang up job for democracy. 

[Brisketexan 103602]

The Leroy Jenkins strategy in which you take no outside input to inform your decisions. 
Bold, maybe.
Stupid, yes.
Losing strategy. We’ll see? [probably though]

If it makes you feel any better, we’re gonna lose with Biden or without him. This fight is just about the right way to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Nicole44 21960]

4 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

Do you think biden has thought what his legacy would be if he runs and loses to trump with even 10% of project 2025 making it into legislation? 

No? Maybe? None of us can know what’s going on in the inner circle. I’m sure it has been mentioned in private conversations with people trying to persuade him to step down. But how many of those people are getting thru now? He’s mad. Feels betrayed and abandoned and his top people are like “don’t watch the news. No one does anymore.” Maybe they are doing the press clippings thing with him (cue Mike Leach) and only showing him positive stuff. His legacy will be destroyed. That’s putting it mildly. And Jill while a favorite before will be side-eyed at any political event afterwards. I don’t think either have thought about that. Jmo. 

Edited July 20 by Nicole44

[Js1 83354]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

If it makes you feel any better, we’re gonna lose with Biden or without him. This fight is just about the right way to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[StassneyHorn 6440]

10 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

"AOC says no one supports Kamala"

*clicks and watches video, AOC doesn't say that 

 

Yes she does

[MrBig 5182]

8 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

This Bouzy guy was team Amber Heard and was defending her hard in the media during the Johnny Depp trial. He was promoting the idea Amber was a helpless victim of domestic violence when was clear she is a violent and manipulative pathological liar. Bouzy was extremely confident she would win the trial and she lost on everything. Bouzy pushing hard for Biden makes me think Biden will be absolutely doomed in the election. 

[Dnaguy 11592]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

If it makes you feel any better, we’re gonna lose with Biden or without him. This fight is just about the right way to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I can almost see it
That dream you’re dreaming
But there's a voice inside my head saying
We'll never reach it

Every step they’re taking
Every move they make feels
Lost with no direction
My faith is shaking

But they, they gotta keep trying
Gotta keep my head held high

There's always gonna be another mountain
I'm always gonna wanna make it move
Always gonna be an uphill battle
Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose
Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb

[troph 24024]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

[David Dennison 17797]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah, the electoral college is doing a bang up job for democracy. 

It is long past time for the electoral college to be thrown on the ash heap of history.

[David Dennison 17797]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If it makes you feel any better, we’re gonna lose with Biden or without him. This fight is just about the right way to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I really hope you're wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're right. 

The Democrats have managed to fuck up a gimme.

 

[Js1 83354]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I really hope you're wrong, but I'm pretty sure you're right. 

The Democrats have managed to fuck up a gimme.

 

Ain’t no gimme presidential elections anymore

[David Dennison 17797]

Just now, Js1 said:

Ain’t no gimme presidential elections anymore

This one was as easy as it gets.

The Democrats!

[Js1 83354]

Idk why you think that. It was not “as easy as it gets”

[David Dennison 17797]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Idk why you think that. It was not “as easy as it gets”

Because Donald Trump is the opposing candidate. 

That should be easy.

 

[Js1 83354]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Because Donald Trump is the opposing candidate. 

That should be easy.

 

Lol are you stuck in 2016? “How could we lose to Trump?”

Inflation/vibecession

foreign propaganda

Gaza

Complicit media 

Edited July 20 by Js1

[Nicole44 21960]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

This one was as easy as it gets.

The Democrats!

On paper yes. Behind the scenes of the inner circle stuff was being hidden about whatever is going on with Biden. But yes, in sales they call it low hanging fruit. Imagine a sell that you Tommy Boy up like that. To be fair it genuinely appears as that most Dems on the Hill had no clue it was this bad. The good days bad days thing. They didn’t know. Until the debate. 
 

I know it feels like this ⬇️ now but the Dems will pull together. Unite. Unless Biden steps aside as nominee but refuses to go down and runs as an independent out of spite. 
 

but yes, right now it does appear like this:

 

[David Dennison 17797]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Lol are you stuck in 2016? “How could we lose to Trump?”

Inflation/vibecession

foreign propaganda

Gaza

Complicit media 

Even with all of those things, beating Donald Trump should have been a lay up.

 

[Biff Tannen 45151]

Do you validate?

[immamac 41718]

They are actually weekend at Bernie'sing Biden at this point it's not some media conspiracy. Go watch the fucking interviews they are nowhere even close to good. Are they bad enough for 25th amendment? Maybe. That's the problem. That's the line we are at now. 

[Nicole44 21960]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

They are actually weekend at Bernie'sing Biden at this point it's not some media conspiracy. Go watch the fucking interviews they are nowhere even close to good. Are they bad enough for 25th amendment? Maybe. That's the problem. That's the line we are at now. 

The thing is if that happens Repubs will make Dems do it. I don’t know how many Dems in House and senate bc it’s like an impeachment. But Repubs can abstain. Or vote no. They aren’t going hard in the paint right now bc they want to face Biden. I’ve heard the pundits. Repubs don’t want to be tagged as the ones who took Biden away and off the ticket. Now will they absolutely launch investigations on Biden’s health and records and who knew what when later? You bet your ass. His debate performance gave every conspiracy theorist on the right validation that it could be true. Repubs will make Dems do it. Think about the restraint. Normally they’d be screaming at the hill for him to be removed. 

[Pato del Muerto 52094]

1 hour ago, troph said:

btw - my student debt profile from 2002:

  - $60,000 (Univ. of Texas / Private law school)
  - all interest subsidized while in school (9 years)
  - fixed rate, 2.95% (when market rate was 7.25% for a home loan)
  - 25 year term
  - $300/month repayment
  - starting salary out of law school, $160,000

My year and total amount were the same, but I had a bachelors (in chemistry). My first job paid $16 an hour (bench analyst). Then after only a couple of years, I had a period of unemployment and stopped paying, which led to default and all of the penalties for that. Climbed out of that hole. Been paying on time for 15 years now, but only minimums so still have 15k left to go at about 160 per month. Pretty sure I’ve paid back well over the initial 60k.  Wouldn’t mind having the last bit discharged. 
 

Yes, choices have been made over the years. Such as paying infertility treatments to have a family.  We did not have a period of 2 incomes/no kids to save money, due to a couple of unemployment phases and the infertility. That would have really helped.  
 

I have always felt that student loans were highly punitive to my situation, and I wish they could be changed so that they don’t do things like kill credit ratings, have penalties for late or non payment, and have default and recovery interest rates at subprime levels. 
 

I know there needs to be some incentive to pay them but it sure made it difficult to recover. 

[immamac 41718]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

The thing is if that happens Repubs will make Dems do it. I don’t know how many Dems in House and senate bc it’s like an impeachment. But Repubs can abstain. Or vote no. They aren’t going hard in the paint right now bc they want to face Biden. I’ve heard the pundits. Repubs don’t want to be tagged as the ones who took Biden away and off the ticket. Now will they absolutely launch investigations on Biden’s health and records and who knew what when later? You bet your ass. His debate performance gave every conspiracy theorist on the right validation that it could be true. Repubs will make Dems do it. Think about the restraint. Normally they’d be screaming at the hill for him to be removed. 

It's not a conspiracy theory. He's been mush brained for a while but could at least pull his shit together for major events and scripted talking points. 

The NATO summit presser was BARELY passable. It was fucking sad. He didn't completely fuck it, but it was embarrassing and showed significant weakness at the global scale. This isn't conspiracy theory nonsense. This is confirmed by the majority of the presser questions being about his mental fitness and not NATO related. It was bad. 

[chainsaw 9656]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's not a conspiracy theory. He's been mush brained for a while but could at least pull his shit together for major events and scripted talking points. 

The NATO summit presser was BARELY passable. It was fucking sad. He didn't completely fuck it, but it was embarrassing and showed significant weakness at the global scale. This isn't conspiracy theory nonsense. This is confirmed by the majority of the presser questions being about his mental fitness and not NATO related. It was bad. 

The sad part is the stability of the country is still orders of magnitude better than when Trump was in office. Like shit anyone could do that job if they trust the right advisors and appoint the right people.

[troph 24024]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

My year and total amount were the same, but I had a bachelors (in chemistry). My first job paid $16 an hour (bench analyst). Then after only a couple of years, I had a period of unemployment and stopped paying, which led to default and all of the penalties for that. Climbed out of that hole. Been paying on time for 15 years now, but only minimums so still have 15k left to go at about 160 per month. Pretty sure I’ve paid back well over the initial 60k.  Wouldn’t mind having the last bit discharged. 
 

Yes, choices have been made over the years. Such as paying infertility treatments to have a family.  We did not have a period of 2 incomes/no kids to save money, due to a couple of unemployment phases and the infertility. That would have really helped.  
 

I have always felt that student loans were highly punitive to my situation, and I wish they could be changed so that they don’t do things like kill credit ratings, have penalties for late or non payment, and have default and recovery interest rates at subprime levels. 
 

I know there needs to be some incentive to pay them but it sure made it difficult to recover. 

whether you get some loan forgiveness or not, the unemployment should not have resulted in that outcome. no way. these are backed by the government, guaranteed, and with that added assurance should come more benefits for the borrower. I think that situation was total bullshit.

['stache 21564]

Wait Vance actually wrote a book and Glen Close agreed to star in a movie about this fascist fucks life? I thought those were jokes earlier in this thread but just saw it pop up on Netflix. JFC, yeah this is a fucking simulation. No doubt in my mind anymore.

[Nicole44 21960]

6 minutes ago, immamac said:

It's not a conspiracy theory. He's been mush brained for a while but could at least pull his shit together for major events and scripted talking points. 

The NATO summit presser was BARELY passable. It was fucking sad. He didn't completely fuck it, but it was embarrassing and showed significant weakness at the global scale. This isn't conspiracy theory nonsense. This is confirmed by the majority of the presser questions being about his mental fitness and not NATO related. It was bad. 

Not disagreeing with you. Some conspiracy folks have thought he’s been like this for a year or more and that’s why he’s been hidden. And much of the press was saying it’s all bullshit until the debate. In their eyes, everyone knew and it was this vast conspiracy. It’s bullshit to me but his debate performance and everything after gave their thoughts new life. Which is dumb. But they believe this shit. 

[David Dennison 17797]

1 minute ago, &#x27;stache said:

Wait Vance actually wrote a book and Glen Close agreed to star in a movie about this fascist fucks life? I thought those were jokes earlier in this thread but just saw it pop up on Netflix. JFC, yeah this is a fucking simulation. No doubt in my mind anymore.

Oh, it's a doozy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly_Elegy

[Js1 83354]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Not disagreeing with you. Some conspiracy folks have thought he’s been like this for a year or more and that’s why he’s been hidden. And much of the press was saying it’s all bullshit until the debate. In their eyes, everyone knew and it was this vast conspiracy. It’s bullshit to me but his debate performance and everything after gave their thoughts new life. Which is dumb. But they believe this shit. 

Well the GOP has been laying the groundwork for this since 2021. 

[David Dennison 17797]

Just now, Js1 said:

Well the GOP has been laying the groundwork for this since 2021. 

Surely the Democrats prepared for this.

Wait.

[yoladu 4045]

5 minutes ago, &#x27;stache said:

Wait Vance actually wrote a book and Glen Close agreed to star in a movie about this fascist fucks life? I thought those were jokes earlier in this thread but just saw it pop up on Netflix. JFC, yeah this is a fucking simulation. No doubt in my mind anymore.

leave it to the GOP to have the first ticket with IMDB listings.

[Nicole44 21960]

Or Trump could screw it all up by somehow violating the Logan Act. 

[Pato del Muerto 52094]

12 minutes ago, troph said:

whether you get some loan forgiveness or not, the unemployment should not have resulted in that outcome. no way. these are backed by the government, guaranteed, and with that added assurance should come more benefits for the borrower. I think that situation was total bullshit.

Used up my 6 months of deferment (interest still accrues obviously) and then the penalties began. Never used the income-based repayment because it wasn’t ever a significant savings and would have added so many years to repayment.  Also, about a third of it was private student loan. 
 

The fact that I was facing these decisions as a 23 and 24 year old probably didn’t help.  Benefit of hindsight, I might make different decisions starting with making sure to work part time during school to minimize my debt. 

Edited July 20 by Pato del Muerto

[jimmyjazz 45192]

57 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I think it's reasonable to look at margin of victory in certain states.  It was mighty slim in a few cases.

Arizona -- < 11K for Biden

Wisconsin -- < 21K for Biden

Georgia -- < 12K for Biden (hence the phone call)

Does that tell the whole story?  No, but neither does 81M vs 74M.

And in case anyone wants another kick in the nuts, those 3 states accounted for 37 electoral votes.  Flip all 3, with the other states remaining the same, assuming I'm doing the math right, that puts Biden and Trump at 269 each, throwing the election to the House, with each state getting a vote.  Biden V Trump went 25-25 by state count.  They have to keep at it even past Jan 20.  Smells like a clusterfuck to me.

Less than 44,000 votes out of 155M.

[WhatTheBuck 28613]

58 minutes ago, troph said:

dems have until their convention to get this shit right and in the meantime they better be running on generic Dem vs. Trump to get the anti-trump sentiment higher. I'm really not expecting a well thought out strategy nor a well executed strategy between now and then anyway. it's a cluster fuck and everyone is to blame (read that last part as howard hughes with the music to make yourself feel better).

Howard Hughes? I don’t follow. I wonder if you meant Howard Jones but he said no one is to blame.

But he also said things can only get better, so there’s that.

 

[troph 24024]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Used up my 6 months of deferment (interest still accrues obviously) and then the penalties began. Never used the income-based repayment because it wasn’t ever a significant savings and would have added so many years to repayment. 
 

The fact that I was facing these decisions as a 23 and 24 year old probably didn’t help.  Benefit of hindsight, I might make different decisions starting with making sure to work part time during school to minimize my debt. 

yeah but the programs are built on the idea that we finance education for employment for the betterment of the individual AND society. but spending money on penalties and accelerated or increased interest is not serving that goal. No fault unemployment should have much longer deferment and with the added government guarantees, any loans that were formerly subsidized in college should be subsidized during unemployment. the point being, even then the programs probably weren't progressive enough.  these never were home loans, or car loans, they were government programs and they should have stayed that way and frankly in your case were not favorable enough.

[troph 24024]

2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Howard Hughes? I don’t follow. I wonder if you meant Howard Jones but he said no one is to blame.

But he also said things can only get better, so there’s that.

 

that was my point, feel better by saying no one is to blame even though everyone is to blame, or just feel better because it's an awesome song and you can sing what I said to the tune. it was a witty play on words type joke that clearly wasn't a good one.

[Pato del Muerto 52094]

1 minute ago, troph said:

yeah but the programs are built on the idea that we finance education for employment for the betterment of the individual AND society. but spending money on penalties and accelerated or increased interest is not serving that goal. No fault unemployment should have much longer deferment and with the added government guarantees, any loans that were formerly subsidized in college should be subsidized during unemployment. the point being, even then the programs probably weren't progressive enough.  these never were home loans, or car loans, they were government programs and they should have stayed that way and frankly in your case were not favorable enough.

Believe me, it felt like life was over before it began. And then they tell you things like the school repayment rate affects how borrowers from that school are treated, or some such, and you feel like such a failure for not being able to make it work. 

[jimmyjazz 45192]

I was a big Howard Jones fan in the day.  Saw him open for Steve Winwood once -- that was a damn good concert.

[Js1 83354]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

And in case anyone wants another kick in the nuts, those 3 states accounted for 37 electoral votes.  Flip all 3, with the other states remaining the same, assuming I'm doing the math right, that puts Biden and Trump at 269 each, throwing the election to the House, with each state getting a vote.  Biden V Trump went 25-25 by state count.  They have to keep at it even past Jan 20.  Smells like a clusterfuck to me.

Less than 44,000 votes out of 155M.

If Wisconsin flips, Michigan and PA probably flipped and it’s already over.  It’s not going to be a tie 

[WhatTheBuck 28613]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

that was my point, feel better by saying no one is to blame even though everyone is to blame, or just feel better because it's an awesome song and you can sing what I said to the tune. it was a witty play on words type joke that clearly wasn't a good one.

It was a fun little nostalgia trip anyway. 

[troph 24024]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Believe me, it felt like life was over before it began. And then they tell you things like the school repayment rate affects how borrowers from that school are treated, or some such, and you feel like such a failure for not being able to make it work. 

I hate that for you.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If Wisconsin flips, Michigan and PA probably flipped and it’s already over.  It’s not going to be a tie 

Yeah, I get that.  But even w/o that, it screams "SCOTUS" at some point, and we all know how that goes.

[immamac 41718]

27 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The sad part is the stability of the country is still orders of magnitude better than when Trump was in office. Like shit anyone could do that job if they trust the right advisors and appoint the right people.

Biden couldn't put together the same cabinet or administration today. Riding out the fumes of your administration isn't the worst way to retire, but it's no way to lead. 

[A-Tex Devil 2414]

Mayor Pete eviscerated Vance on Maher last night.  Dems need to pull from that playbook and hammer it.  

[immamac 41718]

1 minute ago, A-Tex Devil said:

Mayor Pete eviscerated Vance on Maher last night.  Dems need to pull from that playbook and hammer it.  

"Too gay" 

[A-Tex Devil 2414]

Just now, immamac said:

"Too gay" 

Not saying he should be on the ticket.  But just put the same message Pete laid out on loop. 

[immamac 41718]

Just now, A-Tex Devil said:

Not saying he should be on the ticket.  But just put the same message Pete laid out on loop. 

Yeah and I'm telling you what the response is. 

[Js1 83354]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, I get that.  But even w/o that, it screams "SCOTUS" at some point, and we all know how that goes.

Also the entire state delegation in the House votes, it’s not that state won = automatic vote for that candidate. So House races matter a lot.  Peltola winning AK-AL is a vote for Biden and not Trump because she’s delegation of 1, despite Trump winning Alaska.

House races would matter bigly at that point. Gerrymandering has ensured even swing states like Wisconsin have a GOP-lean in their delegation. Trump could win NV, but it’s built to be 3-1 Dem

Wisconsin - currently 5-2 R with an R vacancy (though 2 of those seats are pretty middling R, so it could theoretically be 4-4 in a good year)

Michigan - 7-6 D

Pennsylvania - 9-8 D

NH - 2-0 D

Arizona - 6-3 R 

Etc, etc.