2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

Just now, immamac said:

Sure sure sure. So let's get biden to do something drastic and massive on unconfirmed anything. That's definitely the right thing for the president of the United States to do based on rumors and major foreign policy. 

You're missing the point. Bibi should not be meeting and discussing negotiations with Trump. Period.

 

[David Dennison 17797]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s not legal. It’s a crime. Logan act.

[smokebomb 357]

36 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Someone explain to me how it's legal or acceptable for this to happen. Biden needs to handle this with Netanyahu immediately. 

 

It is illegal - it is a violation of the Logan Act but only two people ever have been indicted and neither were convicted. 

And Trump isn't the first to violate it, Nixon most famously violated it to help his campaigns in 1968 while some theorize Reagan violated it 1980 to help his. Nixon's actions were the most egregious in that it prevented a possible end to the Vietnam war:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/

Regan and the October Surprise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_October_Surprise_theory

TLDR - Same shit, different day. 

[Brian Fantana 6616]

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

Sure sure sure. So let's get biden to do something drastic and massive on unconfirmed anything. That's definitely the right thing for the president of the United States to do based on rumors and major foreign policy. 

I mean it's not like they'll do anything if it's unconfirmed. Biden ain't reading Surly. I just suspect if it's true they already know what was said and there will be a response.

[immamac 41718]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You're missing the point. Bibi should not be meeting and discussing negotiations with Trump. Period.

 

You are missing the point. I understand your point clearly. Everyone is telling you it's illegal and shouldn't happen. 

Trump doing illegal shit has nothing to do with Biden doing incredibly stupid and reckless shit. 

[The Original Greaser Bob 2701]

It's immune from prosecution....

If you think you're the President.

[Brian Fantana 6616]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

You are missing the point. I understand your point clearly. Everyone is telling you it's illegal and shouldn't happen. 

Trump doing illegal shit has nothing to do with Biden doing incredibly stupid and reckless shit. 

You're seeing monsters under the bed that don't exist. Biden isn't going to do shit on an unconfirmed report. You're freaking out about people on a message board speculating.

In my estimation, the likelihood of it being real is very high. What do you think Biden should do if it is confirmed Trump did this? What's the move that isn't "stupid and reckless"?

e: grammah

Edited August 20 by Brian Fantana

[jimmyjazz 45192]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

You are missing the point. I understand your point clearly. Everyone is telling you it's illegal and shouldn't happen. 

Trump doing illegal shit has nothing to do with Biden doing incredibly stupid and reckless shit. 

God damn, how do you get things exactly wrong so often?  This isn't on Biden, it's on Trump.  Biden is still POTUS and he has an obligation to manage foreign policy accordingly.

[Brisketexan 103602]

Calm the fuck down. This is an unproven report in the last 48 hours tops. 

Sure sure sure. So let's get biden to do something drastic and massive on unconfirmed anything. That's definitely the right thing for the president of the United States to do based on rumors and major foreign policy. 

You're seeing monsters under the bed that don't exist. Biden isn't going to do shit on an unconfirmed report. You're freaking out about people on a message board speculating.
In my estimation, the likelihood of it being real is very high. What do you think Biden should do if it is confirmed Trump did this? What's the move that isn't "stupid and reckless"?
e: grammah

What makes you think that a conversation that a world leader had with dipshit Dotard…on an unsecured line…is “unconfirmed?” We know exactly what was said on that call.
And the smart play is for the Biden admin to use it as back channel leverage against Bibi, right now. The public won’t know about it, but Bibi just gave you a gift. Use it.

[Jiggy-Z 3422]

1 hour ago, royiv said:

Anyone posting here is much more attuned to politics than the average bear. I have a lifelong friend that fancies himself an independent. He made a comment to me that he wishes that JD Vance was a the top of the ticket for the R’s because he’s younger and less crazy than Trump. This friend happens to have three children as a result of IVF. I’m happily married and childless by choice. I asked my buddy if he was aware of Vance’s views on IVF or on people like my wife and me. He thought I was making shit up because what I was saying was so insane. I sent him some links to back it up and let’s just say it was eye opening for him.

These are the people that we need to reach. There are a lot of people out there who don’t pay attention to politics like posters on this board do. It’s not the MAGA faithful we need to reach. It’s the folks living their lives who just don’t pay attention to this stuff day to day like we do. Find something the resonates with these people, like IVF access in my example, and hammer it. That’s what works.

Back when Hillary was SOS, I was not too informed politically except for policies that had some direct bearing on my life, like ACA.

One day, no matter what news source I passively consumed, all I heard was Bengazi this and Bengazi that. I was so late to the party that all sources had already moved on from the actual events and facts and were involved in the implications and hearings drama...so I figured it must be serious.

When I finally got around to doing the most basic of research (wiki) after the smoke had cleared, I was left saying to myself..."is that all there was to that? What's the big fucking deal?"

I decided from that point to be a little better informed and incolved.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52093]

9 minutes ago, immamac said:

You are missing the point. I understand your point clearly. Everyone is telling you it's illegal and shouldn't happen. 

Trump doing illegal shit has nothing to do with Biden doing incredibly stupid and reckless shit. 

Especially when we are in the middle of tying Harris to everything Biden has done.  He must have said “Kamala and I” a dozen times in his speech last night. 

[MissingInAction 24416]

3 hours ago, Chopper said:

A former Washington Post reporter's dismantling of the political press. The full article is well worth a read. Link at bottom.

 

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/184990/pundit-brained-media-democratic-convention

We have flipped to the back of the chose your own adventure book to make the correct choice.

Mass media has a built in narrative, and Biden stepping down threw their bullshit into a tailspin.

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

This meeting, and just what we see on this recording, is completely unacceptable. Period. Happened 3 weeks ago.

 

[HenryJames 65525]

13 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It's immune from prosecution....

If you think you're the President.

[immamac 41718]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

God damn, how do you get things exactly wrong so often?  This isn't on Biden, it's on Trump.  Biden is still POTUS and he has an obligation to manage foreign policy accordingly.

Yeah he's president of the United States. Not fucking Israel. Pull your head out of your ass. Brisket gave a great answer

 

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This meeting, and just what we see on this recording, is completely unacceptable. Period. Happened 3 weeks ago.

 

What exactly would you do if you were President about this? 

[SydneyCarton 47471]

1 hour ago, locodos said:

RE: Branding

CSB/  I live in a bright red pocket of a dark blue county...  This past Saturday, the doorbelll rang and I found my state representative (Rep) standing there with some flyers.   I was not prepared and wanted to be polite so I took his flyer, looked it over quickly.  He introduced himself and asked if I had any questions for him.   I asked if he was a Republican, he said yes.  I then told him that HE was the party of Trump and I would not be voting for either of them.  He was a little taken aback, but as a smooth politician he handled it well and turned to walk away.  As I was closing the door, I heard him say He was NOT the Party of Trump he was the party of himself.  It sounded like he was reassuring himself as he walked back down the driveway.

FIN

I hope he thinks about how he and his reputation are stained shitbag orange.   Although he's probably going to be my rep again.  Fuck you Gerrymandering

You think you heard a man who is quesiotning whether his reputaiton is stained, and I think I heard a man advocating for his own party that swears fealty one day. 

[SydneyCarton 47471]

25 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

You're missing the point. Bibi should not be meeting and discussing negotiations with Trump. Period.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This meeting, and just what we see on this recording, is completely unacceptable. Period. Happened 3 weeks ago.

 

Cool. What should Biden do? Arrest Trump immediately? String him up in the square? 

[BurntOrange&White 38877]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

 

Cool. What should Biden do? Arrest Trump immediately? String him up in the square? 

Tell him his crowds were smaller than Hillary's at the DNC.

[immamac 41718]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

 

Cool. What should Biden do? Arrest Trump immediately? String him up in the square? 

Burn down all relationships in Israel and take away all aid and weapons. 

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

What exactly would you do if you were President about this? 

I would urge Netanyahu not to have negotiation discussions with a private citizen and political opponent. And that our government's assistance is tied to working in good faith together. 

 

[wildcat09 28539]

I would order a knife missile strike against BiBi but maybe I'm just built different. 

[immamac 41718]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

I would urge Netanyahu not to have negotiation discussions with a private citizen and political opponent. And that our government's assistance is tied to working in good faith together. 

 

Weird you think that he hasn't done that. Should he send a strongly worded letter and mail it international certified mail? 

[SydneyCarton 47471]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I would urge Netanyahu not to have negotiation discussions with a private citizen and political opponent. And that our government's assistance is tied to working in good faith together. 

 

Oh. I see. You want him to do this:

 

Dude, you don't think Biden has said that already? Additionally, Bibi likely fucking KNOWS he needs trump to get elected, and that he's probably fucked if Harris gets elected regardless. I don't think he fucking cares at this  point, he knows what he has to do to survive. 
 

Edited August 20 by SydneyCarton

[bluto 4814]

Shocking 

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

So no consequences for Bibi? Just take it up the ass and give them more money to bomb innocent civilians? Let two criminals run the show and say "what can you do"? 

[jimmyjazz 45192]

10 minutes ago, immamac said:

Yeah he's president of the United States. Not fucking Israel. Pull your head out of your ass.

What "stupid and reckless shit" is Biden doing, exactly?

[wildcat09 28539]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

So no consequences for Bibi? Just take it up the ass and give them more money to bomb innocent civilians? Let two criminals run the show and say "what can you do"? 

We could condition additional aid to Israel on the IDF executing BiBi by slowly lowering him into a vat of acid.

 

[royiv 9044]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

What "stupid and reckless shit" is Biden doing, exactly?

Apparently getting foreign policy advice from Surly.

[C-Man 26696]

26 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You're seeing monsters under the bed that don't exist. Biden isn't going to do shit on an unconfirmed report. You're freaking out about people on a message board speculating.

In my estimation, the likelihood of it being real is very high. What do you think Biden should do if it is confirmed Trump did this? What's the move that isn't "stupid and reckless"?

e: grammah

If true, Biden and his team need to put that motherfucker on blast.

[immamac 41718]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What "stupid and reckless shit" is Biden doing, exactly?

Nothing, Hank is advocating for him to do stupid reckless shit. Some of you have your heads so far up your own asses you can't even see anything that doesn't fit your agenda. 

[WhatTheBuck 28613]

31 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

You're seeing monsters under the bed that don't exist. Biden isn't going to do shit on an unconfirmed report. You're freaking out about people on a message board speculating.

In my estimation, the likelihood of it being real is very high. What do you think Biden should do if it is confirmed Trump did this? What's the move that isn't "stupid and reckless"?

e: grammah

He could invite Benny Gantz to visit the White House. Maybe start a public discussion about what a post-Netanyahu Israeli government should look like. 

Edited August 20 by WhatTheBuck

[Aqua Buddha 14216]

11 minutes ago, bluto said:

Shocking 

Who could have seen this coming?

Tough shit, though.  He’s already on the ballot.

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

1 minute ago, immamac said:

Nothing, Hank is advocating for him to do stupid reckless shit. Some of you have your heads so far up your own asses you can't even see anything that doesn't fit your agenda. 

What stupid, reckless shit am I advocating? 

 

[immamac 41718]

2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

What stupid, reckless shit am I advocating? 

 

Was it not you who said he should pull all aid and force a ceasefire? If not my bad. 

[SydneyCarton 47471]

13 minutes ago, bluto said:

Shocking 

She sounds dumb. Also, what a fucking surprise. They started this shit to fuck with Harris and Democrats, but when Biden dropped out, it cemented they were more of a threat to trump than Harris, so they show their true colors. 

12 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

So no consequences for Bibi? Just take it up the ass and give them more money to bomb innocent civilians? Let two criminals run the show and say "what can you do"? 

We've all asked for what you think should happen, or what could be done in the current situation, and you've come back with nothing but caterwualing. By all means, what do you think we should do? Because in the short term, I think Biden is doing the right thing. 

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He could invite Benny Gantz to visit the White House. Maybe start a public discussion about what a post-Netanyahu Israeli government should look like. 

Gee, I can't imagine why Bibi is appealing straight to Trump...

[locodos 5247]

29 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

You think you heard a man who is quesiotning whether his reputaiton is stained, and I think I heard a man advocating for his own party that swears fealty one day. 

It's hard to convey tone,  but I don't think he was feeling good about being labeled a trump subordinate.  It's possible that was just a result of his own narcissism.

[Hank Kingsley 20104]

4 minutes ago, immamac said:

Was it not you who said he should pull all aid and force a ceasefire? If not my bad. 

I said "or", not "and". 

 

Also:

 

 

[SydneyCarton 47471]

15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I said "or", not "and". 

 

Also:

 

 

And you know, Netanyahu's own country might actually consider doing something themselves. 

[MissingInAction 24416]

47 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

 

Cool. What should Biden do? Arrest Trump immediately? String him up in the square? 

[Red Five 40355]

"Donald Trump is preventing a ceasefire in the same way that he prevented meaningful action on the border."

Let's hear some version of this every night the next three nights. 

[Brian Fantana 6616]

8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

And you know, Netanyahu's own country might actually consider doing something themselves. 

There have been mass protests and people calling for new elections over there for quite some time now. Beyond that there's little incentive for them to change anything they're doing as long as the American money spigot is still going full blast. That's the only real way to put any meaningful pressure on Bibi. As long as he can keep the money flowing he can keep his own ass out of the wood chipper. Without it, he's vulnerable.

I'm confident Biden will put pressure on him, the admin can't allow Bibi to do public end-arounds like this. It just can't be allowed. No other world leader would be allowed to do stuff like this, especially not an "ally".

[Pato del Muerto 52093]

13 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"Donald Trump is preventing a ceasefire in the same way that he prevented meaningful action on the border."

Let's hear some version of this every night the next three nights. 

Sure, but it’s not like he has to talk benji out of it. They are aligned. 

[royiv 9044]

10 minutes ago, Red Five said:

"Donald Trump is preventing a ceasefire in the same way that he prevented meaningful action on the border."

Let's hear some version of this every night the next three nights. 

At some point you hit a point of diminishing returns blaming Trump for not being able to advance the ball down the field on major issues. It begins to make the D’s look weak and ineffective if the message is that Trump, currently a private citizen, is more powerful than the President. The message needs to be that  Biden is using his leverage with Bibi to force him to the table to get a deal done and be vocal about who is holding things up. Everyone is tired of this carnage at this poin, sentiment in Israel will turn quickly if the Israelis see that Bibi is being an impediment to getting the deal done.

[elfenix 34109]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

only for those of us wonks who get into this stuff. 

What I'd do:

1. Highlight the worst parts of it that they are most likely to implement;

2. Attach Trump to it (his name is ALL over that document in spite of him lying about not knowing anything about it) - he's also on record as saying he was going to do many of the things documented in it;

3. Blast that all over media until election day. 

It's more than 4 pages and not full of colorful pictures. There's no way he's more than glanced at it.

[texasdago 7407]

1 hour ago, immamac said:

Yeah he's president of the United States. Not fucking Israel. Pull your head out of your ass. Brisket gave a great answer

 

What exactly would you do if you were President about this? 

Publicly call him out on it.  It will force Trump to respond because you know he can't keep it to himself.  Call him out very publicly.  Make him say something stupid that will piss off the protesters, too.  We all know the playbook.

[Satchel 6902]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I would urge Netanyahu not to have negotiation discussions with a private citizen and political opponent. And that our government's assistance is tied to working in good faith together. 

 

Bibi has the same amount of respect for law and norms as does Trump. He doesn’t a Jim Crow damn.

[SubliminalHorn 6384]

Can you dipshits take the Israel talk to, oh I don’t know, the fucking Israel thread?

[South Austin 51633]

3 minutes ago, Satchel said:

He doesn’t a Jim Crow damn.

Is this some new euphemism I’m not familiar with?

[4th&Five 41184]

 

Edited August 20 by 4th&Five

[Reynolds Woodcock 4629]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I favor preserving freedom of thought and expression.  Of ensuring Americans are free to make their own decisions about their property, their religion, and their bodies.

At the same time, I favor preserving the social safety net that we have built up over the past 90 years.  And where there are holes in that safety net, either in its original construction or because new economic developments have torn holes in it, it should be repaired.

All of these are conservative values.  These are the values that would be supported by any conservative party.

But the GQP today is not a conservative party.  It is a reactionary party.  And reactionism is not "conservativism."

This is lovely, except it isn't true as it relates to the "conservative" Republican party in modern history. The party of Reagan and Bush that all of the Never Trumpers supported was also a party of shitty policy and bigotry (albeit in more hushed tones I suppose). Granted, they weren't a threat to democracy like the current iteration, but let's not pretend that "any conservative party" would support a bolstered social safety net, the freedom of bodily autonomy if you happen to be a woman, etc. 

Of course, I'm happy to have as big of a tent as possible this coming November.