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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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3 minutes ago, G650 said:

The actual laughable part is completely eliding over the fact the actual problem is 45% of the country is voting for Trump.

Sir, I’ve been told that the real problem with this country is the way the founding fathers crafted our government. 

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2 minutes ago, G650 said:

The actual laughable part is completely eliding over the fact the actual problem is 45% of the country is voting for Trump.

That's human nature though, and to their credit I think the founding fathers realized that a great many people are too stupid for their own good and wanted a government that was able to protect them from themselves.

I just think they didn't do a good enough job with the constitution.

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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Literally, LITERALLY, no one who frequents this fucking board believes any of the things bolded above. Fucking no one. Attempting to paint anyone with that fucking brush is laughably pathetic, and most importantly arguing in bad faith. 

I hope you are right, but the mystique is a real thing. I can't think of a politician who doesn't at least pay lip service to how great and wonderful the founding fathers and constitution are.

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2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I hope you are right, but the mystique is a real thing. I can't think of a politician who doesn't at least pay lip service to how great and wonderful the founding fathers and constitution are.

Yes it’s a real thing. But not fucking here it isn’t. 

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1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

He did and they've all been eroded because of the antidemocratic mechanisms these founding fathers put into the constitution.

Passing laws is one thing, but amending the Constitution as you're no doubt aware is a much higher hurdle to clear that doesn't happen very often without a bloody civil war preceding it

It's happened *checks notes* 27 times.

None of those amendments caused a civil war.

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34 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It ultimately doesn't matter what you or I think about their intellect. Like Sark in 2021, we're still stuck with the byproducts of our predecessors' shortcomings.

The reason I originally brought up this hard truth is because the mystique that surrounds the founding fathers and the Constitution has the effect of shielding it from meaningful debate. By that I mean, the only places it gets talked about with some objectivity are academia and corners of the internet, places that wield no power to actually do anything.

It's funny because the same people following this thread who are having to constantly watch these polls, after having to force out the presumptive nominee due to his Jackson Arnoldian inability to win, are only in this position because of the hard truth I've pointed out. I love the good parts of our Constitution, but we are deluding ourselves if we think it's the product of a bona fide brain trust.

There is a certain sanctity of the Constitution, yes, that precludes some from entertaining criticism of it.

By the same token, you can seriously discuss and criticize the shortcomings of the Constitution and the form of government it created without short-selling the Founding Fathers.

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Just now, David Dennison said:

It's happened *checks notes* 27 times.

None of those amendments caused a civil war.

I think you misread what I said. Anyway, the amendments we actually need are going to be a lot more politically unviable than repealing prohibition and regulating Congressional salary changes.

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

There is a certain sanctity of the Constitution, yes, that precludes some from entertaining criticism of it.

By the same token, you can seriously discuss and criticize the shortcomings of the Constitution and the form of government it created without short-selling the Founding Fathers.

Fair enough.

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5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I think you misread what I said. Anyway, the amendments we actually need are going to be a lot more politically unviable than repealing prohibition and regulating Congressional salary changes.

People who want change need to get better at politics. 

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

People who want change need to get better at politics. 

We can hope for and work toward that, but if the system is so rigged that it's practically impossible to accomplish, maybe the greater blame should lie with the rigged system.

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Just now, David Dennison said:

People who want change need to get better at politics. 

Are you surprised that the guy who champions purity tests and a complete unwillingness to even understand the concept of compromise in regards to super left progressive positions doesn’t fundamentally understand the concept of politics?

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30 minutes ago, G650 said:

The actual laughable part is completely eliding over the fact the actual problem is 45% of the country is voting for Trump.

I mean. I get the sentiment but even in major blowouts, the major party’s floor is pretty high (37-40%) and 2024 is probably the most polarized we’ve ever been. So Trump with a 45% floor sounds about right - US is 45/45 with 10% that can be swayed 

1964 - 38.5%
1980 - 41%
1984 - 40.6%
1972 - 37.5%
1932 - 39.6%
1936 - 36.5%

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12 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

We can hope for and work toward that, but if the system is so rigged that it's practically impossible to accomplish, maybe the greater blame should lie with the rigged system.

You're diminishing all that has been accomplished within this system over the last 237 years.

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1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Your numbers suggest it’s more like 35/35/30

Maybe 30-40 years ago, but in the past few elections? Not a chance either a Dem or Rep is getting under 45% without a major scandal or a Perot-type spoiler

The GOP destroyed the economy in 2008 and McCain still got 45.7%

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The US is something like  30/30/40

The 40 is made up of three groups

1.  They are eligible to vote.....Will they even register to vote

2.  They are registered to vote.....Will they show up and vote?

3.  They are registered to vote and routinely show up to vote....Who will they vote for?

Hell maybe 25/25/50

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23 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You're diminishing all that has been accomplished within this system over the last 237 years.

Imagine being so far left that David Dennison is dunking all over you for being myopic and absurd in your leftism. No offense, David, just stating that you’re left of most here. 

22 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Maybe 30-40 years ago, but in the past few elections? Not a chance either a Dem or Rep is getting under 45% without a major scandal or a Perot-type spoiler

The GOP destroyed the economy in 2008 and McCain still got 45.7%

To be fair, I don’t think the GOP destroyed the economy in 2008. Now, do I think their legislation changes in banking in decades prior made that happen? Absolutely. But what am I missing in 2008 specifically they did to wreck the economy? I always thought it was a combo of banking nonsense and the Clinton changed to Fanny and Freddie?

Edited by SydneyCarton
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21 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Maybe 30-40 years ago, but in the past few elections? Not a chance either a Dem or Rep is getting under 45% without a major scandal or a Perot-type spoiler

The GOP destroyed the economy in 2008 and McCain still got 45.7%

And that is totally fine. The issue is a large chunk of the country has no qualms about writing off democracy. The constitution has shit to do with that.

 

Insert whatever utopian form over government that dipshit is envisioning into the US, you are more than likely increasing Trumps chances at gaining the levers of power.

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Well we can certainly scour at the politicians and voters that went through that and are still, or once again, on the path of complete deregulation because it’s how we prosper.   The politicians are bought by corporate interests for their opinions and votes, the people are just dumb animals that follow along. 

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We need better progressive populists today. The OG's passed amendments instituting a national sales tax, direct senatorial elections, and women's suffrage (sure Prohibition was a screw up, but they passed yet ANOTHER amendment to fix that).

 

And that was in an equally polarized country where a majority were disenfranchised.

 

We can change things. We've done it before. Blaming the Founding Fathers is lazy and projection.

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To get slightly back on topic, I went by the Harris Walz TCDP shop on 53rd 1/2 street earlier today…and had trouble parking. There were easily a dozen volunteers inside working, and probably 15 people in there picking up signs, t-shirts, etc. I got some stuff to send the kids, and got a “COACH” shirt for myself.
Lotta good energy. Was nice to see.
The boy even ran into a guy walking down Dumbarton road in Glasgow, wearing a Harris Walz camo hat. Told him he liked his hat, they chatted a bit. The boy even commented - just good energy.

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24 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Imagine being so far left that David Dennison is dunking all over you for being myopic and absurd in your leftism. No offense, David, just stating that you’re left of most here. 

To be fair, I don’t think the GOP destroyed the economy in 2008. Now, do I think their legislation changes in banking in decades prior made that happen? Absolutely. But what am I missing in 2008 specifically they did to wreck the economy? I always thought it was a combo of banking nonsense and the Clinton changed to Fanny and Freddie?

Yes and Dems were quite complicit in laying the groundwork for 2008.  Gramm-Leach-Bliley: On November 4, the final bill resolving the differences was passed by the Senate 90–8, and by the House 362–57. The legislation was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 12, 1999.

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9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

To get slightly back on topic, I went by the Harris Walz TCDP shop on 53rd 1/2 street earlier today…and had trouble parking. There were easily a dozen volunteers inside working, and probably 15 people in there picking up signs, t-shirts, etc. I got some stuff to send the kids, and got a “COACH” shirt for myself.
Lotta good energy. Was nice to see.
The boy even ran into a guy walking down Dumbarton road in Glasgow, wearing a Harris Walz camo hat. Told him he liked his hat, they chatted a bit. The boy even commented - just good energy.

I seem to recall you saying political apparel is lame not too long ago. Hypocrite.

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Hey look, @chainsaw decides to show he understands much less than he thinks he does and zealously defends some moronic takes that derive from that ignorance. News at 10.

Even better that this time his rant actually begins by questioning the intelligence of men who are head and shoulders above him. Irony at its finest. 

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7 minutes ago, LTbear said:

Hey look, @chainsaw decides to show he understands much less than he thinks he does and zealously defends some moronic takes that derive from that ignorance. News at 10.

Even better that this time his rant actually begins by questioning the intelligence of men who are head and shoulders above him. Irony at its finest. 

You just don’t understand how Israel made all of this happen through their genocidal bloodlust and their collusion with our founding fathers to forever fuck us and the Palestinians over /chainsaw  

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