2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.

[The Dog 43972]

 

[Mdhorn 5945]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:57 PM, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

Trump’s answer
“So, you know, it’s such a great question in the sense that people don’t think of grocery. You know, it sounds like not such an important word when you talk about homes and everything else, right? But more people tell me about grocery bills, where the price of bacon, the price of lettuce, the price of tomatoes, they tell me. [1] And we’re going to do a lot of things."

 

Am I the only one that noticed his reply to groceries begins with describing the ingredients of a BLT?  Christ almighty, why didn't anybody ask him a question about what kind of bread does he like on his bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwiches because he didn't mention that in his response-- just to watch his thought train derail.  

[Sawbonz 27514]

9 hours ago, safe sex said:

¿Por qué no los dos?

[Mdhorn 5945]

11 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

This one too.

I think Brisket wrote this one:

 

[Sawbonz 27514]

13 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Am I the only one that noticed his reply to groceries begins with describing the ingredients of a BLT

[F250 28756]

2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Sorry if this was already posted but WTAF

 

The Univision audience's reaction while he was talking.

[Mdhorn 5945]

10 hours ago, Js1 said:

Some of these splits in similar voting states are drunk af.

Quinnipiac has Georgia Trump +7 and NC Harris +2. 

They will not vote 9 points apart.... and all of the Blue Wall will be within 1-2 points of each other. 

They're still cooking in the narrative...so turnip can say look at the polls, they had me up, this is proof of Democrat fuckery.  

[Gatorubet 30175]

2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

 

Really, that makes sense. It’s sort of like mathematics. If an undocumented worker takes an undocumented worker’s job, then the second worker becomes legal.  It’s like a negative number times a negative number.  

You people never went to Wharton.

[Haphap 741]

Did not win him over.

Also lady in the left reaction

[Mdhorn 5945]

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

We've failed young men because we haven't pounded into their heads "society isn't just going to hand you this shit anymore, you have to go out there and earn it."  And you're goddamned right I put a lot of that on the heads of loser young men who don't have the ambition or balls to get up out of the gaming chair and improve themselves.  But I also put some of that on the rest of society, because we indeed have failed young men.  When you take away an expected pathway (for all the right reasons -- none of this was to "punish" young white men, but simply to allow everyone else onto the field to compete as well) without offering a well-defined alternative pathway, people end up lost.  Shut down the factory in town where everyone works, without providing an alternative, training for a different field, etc., the former factory workers are 1) fucked and 2) pissed.  Metaphorically, we've done some of that, and we haven't figured out how to equip our young men for the new paradigm.  We really need to do that.

I remember watching interviews with coal miners who were being offered paid training in another field--nope, my daddy was a coal miner and his daddy before him and so on.  Some chose to be left behind, and that's fine.  But don't blame the government for your poor choices.  

Years later but about a decade ago, I was talking to a young Salvadoran living across the street that worked installing solar panels.  He was getting a paid college education by his job and was just working with Pepco on installing something underground and they offered him a job.  He was playing the loyalty card and I was stating fuck that--ask them if they'll finish paying for your degree, along with paying more.  I asked him where he got started installing solar panels.  Las Vegas, where nobody wanted to go out in the heat on top of buildings and do a job that was pretty damn challenging.  He was damn near making 6 figures at the time of our conversation, and getting a degree.  Choices, but I'm sure some would say an immigrant was stealing American jobs.  

Edited October 17 by Mdhorn

[Ted Lange 16078]

16 minutes ago, Haphap said:

Did not win him over.

Also lady in the left reaction

 

[Dr. Teeth 5843]

At this point I think Trump is actually trying to see how bad he can be and still get elected as some sort of experiment to show how fucking dumb our country has become. I think he is going to shit on stage and gain 3 points. I’d root for a stroke or heart attack by Election Day, but that might give him all 50 states. 

[Tuco 5076]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

 

They do that every year.  Maybe this year they have more resources and it has been more effective, but following up with AV and VBM is standard.  I think they even get data on which ones have been returned.  

[Tuco 5076]

13 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

"they couldn't get me, because I said 'peacefully and patriotically.'"  Fucking knockoff mobster. 

[Gatorubet 30175]

1 hour ago, The Dog said:

This gives me hope. In a close election, you have to have a competent local ground game. We know that Trump and his in-laws have stolen all the money from the RNC, resulting in no money and GOP ground office closures, as they sent that cash to Donnie.

If it is true that the Democratic Party and it’s filled operative know exactly who the hell has an EV ballot (he meant EV, right?) to cast, then that is at least possible proof of a competent organized DNC ground game.  At least in Michigan.

That could be Yuuuge if this is super close. 

https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-republicans-have-money-problem-1933818

[Mdhorn 5945]

3 hours ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/16/media/fox-news-women-town-hall-supporters/index.html

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

The first question posed to Trump at the town hall came from a woman identified as Lisa, who asked the former president a question about the economy. The network did not disclose that Lisa is also the president of the Fulton County Republican Women group.

The local Republican groups did not respond to CNN requests for comment Wednesday.

Some of the town hall attendees made it clear they were supporters of the former president, either in their questioning or in their attire.

“I want to thank you for coming to a room full of women the current administration would consider domestic terrorists,” a woman named Alicia said to laughter from the audience before a question about foreign policy.

But a portion of Alicia’s question was edited by Fox News to remove her admission that she was voting for Trump.

“I proudly cast my vote for you today. I hope they count it,” she added, according to an audio recording from a CNN reporter in attendance.

While it’s common for a pre-taped event or interview to be edited for time, Alicia’s short remark came in the middle of her question, which remained intact on the broadcast.

During another moment missing from Fox’s broadcast, Trump asked the crowd who they were voting for, leading to a chant of “Trump, Trump” breaking out by the attendees.

Fox News did not respond to CNN questions about the missing remarks.

The crowd of women was overwhelmingly supportive of the former president, welcoming Trump with a standing ovation and often breaking out into applause during his responses. When Trump called President Joe Biden “the worst president in history” and Vice President Kamala Harris “the worst vice president,” the crowd burst into cheers.

One woman in the crowd wore an “RNC Delegate” hat. Another named Rachel wore a Trump pin visible on her blazer as she asked the former president a question.

When Faulkner asked the audience whether they opposed “biological men and boys competing against women and girls in sports,” nearly every hand in the room was raised, the Fox host noted. According to CNN’s fact check of the event, Trump made at least 19 false claims in the one-hour town hall. Faulkner did not fact check Trump on stage.

The UK-based news outlet The Independent, which reported from the Georgia event, spoke with attendees and noted many “were from Republican groups around the area whom Fox News invited.”

Rachel, who wore a Trump pin while asking the candidate a question, was later interviewed on Fox News. Though she was identified by anchor Sandra Smith as a Trump supporter, the woman pushed back on The Independent’s reporting.

“I’m nobody and I’m not registered with anybody,” she said. “I found out about this meeting late through my local county Facebook page.”

 

 

Every accusation is a confession...60 minutes edited Kamala's interview.  

 

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

why would murderers and rapists want to take jobs picking vegetables?  i mean, there’s only so many hours in the day. 

This is awesome.  There was one comment on the X page regarding the Univision town hall, that roughly stated -- Now he's a clown in two different languages.  

[Biff Tannen 45646]

33 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I remember watching interviews with coal miners who were being offered paid training in another field--nope, my daddy was a coal miner and his daddy before him and so on.  Some chose to be left behind, and that's fine.  But don't blame the government for your poor choices.  

Years later but about a decade ago, I was talking to a young Salvadoran living across the street that worked installing solar panels.  He was getting a paid college education by his job and was just working with Pepco on installing something underground and they offered him a job.  He was playing the loyalty card and I was stating fuck that--ask them if they'll finish paying for your degree, along with paying more.  I asked him where he got started installing solar panels.  Las Vegas, where nobody wanted to go out in the heat on top of buildings and do a job that was pretty damn challenging.  He was damn near making 6 figures at the time of our conversation, and getting a degree.  Choices, but I'm sure some would say an immigrant was stealing American jobs.  

I trained for a couple of months for solar (paid for by state grants), became a journeyman electrician (entry level), and installed solar panels in Austin for two whole months, thankfully in Dec/Jan. That was hard work. I moved on because the demand just wasn’t there at the time, but kinda wish I had stuck with it. Probably could have moved on to sales/design/etc and had a decent career. But I had other options. Many people don’t. 

[Mdhorn 5945]

51 minutes ago, Haphap said:

Did not win him over.

Also lady in the left reaction

Did Trump respond thank you, Amigo? Also, he just throws out numbers pulled out his rectum--97 percent of my former administration supports me.  No, they don't.  They wrote tell all books detailing your lunacy and did the public talkshow circuit talking about it. You then constantly say how you didn't know them. 

[Mdhorn 5945]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I trained for a couple of months for solar (paid for by state grants), became a journeyman electrician (entry level), and installed solar panels in Austin for two whole months, thankfully in Dec/Jan. That was hard work. I moved on because the demand just wasn’t there at the time, but kinda wish I had stuck with it. Probably could have moved on to sales/design/etc and had a decent career. But I had other options. Many people don’t. 

After talking to him, he made me want to get on a roof and help him--but like you said, options.  And air conditioning is a largely, unspoken benefit but huge.  

[henrygandorf 29187]

15 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Did Trump respond thank you, Amigo? Also, he just throws out numbers pulled out his rectum--97 percent of my former administration supports me.  No, they don't.  They wrote tell all books detailing your lunacy and did the public talkshow circuit talking about it. You then constantly say how you didn't know them. 

these town halls should be fact-checked in real time. like, they come back from commercial and match his answers to the truth. it’ll be the world’s worst game show. 

[Brian Fantana 6676]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/10/16/kamala-harris-israel-gaza-lebanon/

Israel complicates election’s final stretch, an issue Democrats hoped would fade

Benjamin Netanyahu’s escalating assaults in Gaza and Lebanon have become a growing vulnerability for Kamala Harris amid her bid for the presidency.

Spoilering this because it's long and paywalled:

Spoiler

President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris hoped the ongoing violence in the Middle East might simmer below the surface in the final weeks of the presidential race, but fresh Israeli military offensives are making that virtually impossible, U.S. officials and campaign aides say.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has set the Gaza Strip ablaze with a renewed bombing campaign and launched a ground invasion into Lebanon alongside aerial strikes in Beirut aimed at annihilating the militant group Hezbollah. He is expected to order an imminent attack on Iran’s military facilities in response to its missile strike on Israel this month.

The rapid escalation has tied the Biden administration in knots, resulting in the United States first calling for an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon only to reverse that policy nine days later and openly endorse Israel’s ground offensive.

The whiplash has caused confusion and consternation among Washington’s European and Arab allies who are pushing for the United States to restrain its closest ally in the Middle East. But administration officials remain loath to pick a public fight at such a tenuous moment politically.

“They clearly want to avoid any public confrontation with Netanyahu over Lebanon or Gaza that could result in blowback from Israel’s supporters before the election,” said Frank Lowenstein, a Biden ally and former Middle East negotiator in the Obama administration.

“At the same time, they are sensitive to losing critical Arab American votes in key swing states if their rhetoric leans too far in Israel’s direction,” he added.

The administration has issued statements in response to recent incidents that have drawn international backlash, including Israel’s attacks on U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon; its deadly bombing of Gaza’s al-Aqsa hospital, which engulfed nearby tent camps in flames; and a U.N. report indicating no food has entered northern Gaza in nearly two weeks. Yet those remarks have been carefully calibrated to avoid portraying a sharp break with Netanyahu.

The latest opportunity to do so came Tuesday, when Israeli media published the contents of a confidential letter from Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urging Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza or face potential restrictions on U.S. military assistance. Within hours of the letter’s disclosure, spokespeople for the White House and State Department clarified that it “was not meant to be taken as a threat” and that no action would be taken in the next 30 days — pushing any potential punitive action until after the election. They declined to say if weapons restrictions were even on the table.

This account of the Biden administration’s handling of ballooning violence in the Middle East during the election’s final weeks is based on interviews with more than two dozen officials from the United States, Europe and the Middle East as well as Harris’s campaign. The dynamic they conveyed is of an improvisational White House that has followed Israel’s lead into a widening regional war while only marginally influencing Netanyahu’s actions. Some spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss their observations.

The war’s spread has alarmed the Harris campaign, which sees the images of dead civilians as complicating her path to victory in key swing states with sizable Arab American and Muslim populations.

“It’s a huge concern. It comes down to people saying, ‘I can’t support anyone who supports a genocide,’” a person who advises the campaign said.

Israel denies that its military operations in Gaza constitute genocide.

‘Look at our track record’

The Biden administration contends that critics underestimate the impact it has had in reducing the scale of Israel’s invasion into Lebanon, increasing the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza and preventing a full-scale war with Iran. Officials say they are constantly working to dissuade Netanyahu from bombing Beirut and scale back his planned counterattack on Iran, which some fear could include strikes on nuclear or oil facilities, a prospect that could upend the global economy.

“Look at our track record of intervening to get humanitarian assistance in,” State Department spokesman Matthew Miller told reporters Tuesday. “When we have seen the results not measure up to the standards that we expect, we have intervened with them.”

But according to the administration’s own assessment, the amount of aid delivered to Gaza has dropped by more than 50 percent since the spring. In Lebanon on Wednesday, Israeli airstrikes resumed near Beirut’s southern suburb, hitting what the Israeli military called an underground weapon storage facility used by Hezbollah. Other Israeli strikes in southern Lebanon hit government buildings in Nabatieh, killing at least six people, including the mayor.

Israeli officials say they will not kowtow to the United States about targets in Lebanon, where more than 1,700 people have been killed and 1.2 million displaced since fighting intensified in mid-September. “We will continue to hit Hezbollah mercilessly in all parts of Lebanon — also in Beirut,” Netanyahu said.

No final decision has been made about targets to strike in Iran, Israeli officials say, but an attack is expected in the coming days.

In Gaza, most U.S. officials concede the two sides will not reach a cease-fire-hostage deal by the end of the year. That process was bogged down amid demands from Hamas about prisoner exchanges and Israel on keeping its troops along the Gaza-Egypt border.

The dilemma has caused current and former officials to reflect on how Washington could have avoided the quagmire.

Andrew Miller, who recently stepped down as the State Department’s top official for Israeli-Palestinian issues, said the United States was too quick to accept Israel’s expanding operations without understanding their scope.

“What we did had the effect of endorsing Israel’s military campaign before understanding whether Israel had a viable exit strategy,” he said in an interview. “I don’t think there’s anyone in the administration who could say with a straight face Israel had a clearly defined end-state.”

Inside the Harris campaign, concerns are particularly acute in Michigan, home to one of the nation’s largest Arab American and Muslim populations, with about 300,000 people who claim ancestry from North Africa or the Middle East.

Polls show Harris and her Republican opponent, former president Donald Trump, effectively tied there and in other battleground states that will decide the election. Harris’s clearest path to victory is in the “Blue Wall” states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and she has few paths to the presidency without winning the Wolverine State, where she is holding five events in three days this week.

When Harris first entered the race, her advisers hoped the fact that she had distinguished herself from Biden by speaking more forcefully about Palestinian suffering would help win over a sizable segment of Arab American and Muslim voters who are angry over the administration’s support of Israel.

But winning their support has become more difficult as Israel’s military campaign has intensified with U.S. backing.

Israeli officials say the assaults are needed to prevent another Oct. 7, the day in 2023 that Hamas-led fighters killed 1,200 people in Israel and took more than 250 hostage. The American political calendar is not a factor in the sequencing of the war, an Israeli official told The Washington Post. “The timing of strikes is solely determined by operational considerations, nothing else,” the official said.

The botched cease-fire

Despite a year’s worth of failed efforts to end hostilities in Lebanon and Gaza, U.S. officials saw their last best opportunity during the U.N. General Assembly in New York late last month.

Biden’s envoy, Amos Hochstein, had been holding calls with Lebanese negotiators in Beirut into the early hours of the morning on Sept. 26 as he consulted with Israeli officials in New York on the language of a cease-fire statement.

Eventually, U.S. and French officials received enough positive signals from Israeli and Lebanese counterparts to release a joint U.S.-French statement calling for a 21-day cessation of hostilities. U.S. officials touted the statement to reporters as a “breakthrough.” The optimists in Biden’s inner circle thought a cease-fire in Lebanon could open a backdoor to one in Gaza, ending hostilities just before the election.

Diplomats discussed the details of a possible U.N. Security Council resolution, including semantics like whether to use the word “cease-fire” or “truce,” a Western diplomat said.

Meanwhile, Netanyahu instructed his armed forces to “continue fighting at full force” in remarks that embarrassed U.S. officials who leaned on the prime minister’s top aide, Ron Dermer, to issue a statement in support of the cease-fire discussions.

French and Lebanese officials believed the various sides were close to entering a truce while U.S. officials said they were still days away from implementing an agreement due to discrepancies, including rules for Hezbollah and Israeli troops movements.

Then on Sept. 27, a fleet of Israeli F-15s dropped dozens of bombs on a building in the southern suburbs of Beirut, killing Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah and his top aides. The attack eliminated one of Israel’s most ruthless foes, a dominant political and military figure in Lebanon for decades. It also killed any chance for the U.S.-France cease-fire proposal.

“It all went up into thin air,” the Western diplomat said.

Israeli officials said that Netanyahu was never interested in a cease-fire and that a miscommunication occurred between the White House and the prime minister’s office. U.S. officials say the prime minister changed his mind, either as a result of pressure from his right-wing cabinet or upon receiving actionable intelligence about Nasrallah’s whereabouts.

The next phase

Sensing an opportunity to build on the decapitation of Hezbollah’s leadership, Netanyahu authorized a ground invasion of Lebanon on Oct. 1 to destroy the infrastructure the group used to fire rockets into Israel.

In a televised address, Netanyahu said the people of Lebanon could oust Hezbollah or suffer the fate of Gaza, where more than 42,000 Palestinians have been killed, according to local health authorities. “You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss,” Netanyahu said.

Privately, administration officials were outraged and said Netanyahu’s threats risked uniting Lebanon’s fractured society against the invasion. “He’s an unbelievably flawed messenger,” a senior U.S. official said.

But Biden and his top advisers agreed with Netanyahu’s premise that the weakening of Hezbollah could be exploited to reshape Lebanon’s politics and appoint a new president. A limited incursion was backed by Blinken, Hochstein, Austin, Middle East coordinator Brett McGurk and White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan, said officials familiar with the matter.

But like with other Israeli promises, the mission expanded, including major bombardments of towns and villages involving civilian casualties that U.S. officials say they strongly oppose.

Analysts are skeptical that the lofty goals of the United States and Israel in Lebanon are achievable before Biden leaves office.

“I don’t think there’s enough time left to accomplish that,” said Andrew Miller, the former State Department official. “At the most, you could potentially see the appointment of a new president, but even that’s going to be extraordinarily difficult.”

 

[atomheartbevo 89587]

15 hours ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Friends are easy enough to change. It's the coworkers and family that I struggle with. Like my mom would just look me in the face and say that Trump doesn't really mean that and he was just taken out of context and that I watch too much CNN (I watch zero CNN).

Yeah, I’ve had some older relatives doing the “well of course he lies, he’s a politician” (they’ve dropped the pretenses of him being an outsider) followed by Kamala being worse. And I’ve been accused of watching too much MSNBC or CNBC or CNN (which has been running stories full tilt over the past day or two about the Dems panicking, leading to Kamala being forced to go on Fox News)

With that said, they are no longer spirited when it comes to defending Trump or arguing with me. Four years ago, they would argue long and hard.  Now they try to duck out of the conversation right away. You can tell they don’t want to defend him.

[henrygandorf 29187]

let’s be real for a minute. this will not cost billions, this will not decimate the supply chain or the economy. this will not affect food in any way. 

because he won’t actually do it.

not because it’s wrong or complicated or will have an effect on food or the economy, it’s because trump doesn’t actually do anything.

he loves to talk about stuff, he doesn’t like to do stuff. he loves to campaign, he has no idea how to govern. 

thankfully it won’t be a problem. 

[WhatTheBuck 28764]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

let’s be real for a minute. this will not cost billions, this will not decimate the supply chain or the economy. this will not affect food in any way. 

because he won’t actually do it.

not because it’s wrong or complicated or will have an effect on food or the economy, it’s because trump doesn’t actually do anything.

he loves to talk about stuff, he doesn’t like to do stuff. he loves to campaign, he has no idea how to govern. 

thankfully it won’t be a problem. 

He’ll hurt some people for the cameras, though. You can bank on that. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21142]

8 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Sorry if this was already posted but WTAF

and it will work.  I hate that cocksucker so much I'm seeinng red before 6am.  God fucking damnnit he needs to fucking keel over and die. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13488]

The worst part of trumps original, offhand remark about tariffs, is that he can’t handle that so many have called him wrong. If President he will implement wide scale tariffs just to show he wasn’t wrong. He will burn the economy just to avoid the embarrassment of questions.

[LTbear 4166]

8 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

[Bullneck 19070]

10 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

If listening to hannity’s radio show and your reaction is anything other than rage, much less laughter, I think you might need to see a shrink. 

It's like when I go to TexAgs to read something dumb or unintentionally funny and all I get is unfiltered hate based on Facebook rumors or Qanon gibberish (which I knew ahead of time was coming).

Nothing obviously incongruent and humorous; just comments based on a belief in a crazy world that doesn't exist.

41 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The worst part of trumps original, offhand remark about tariffs, is that he can’t handle that so many have called him wrong. If President he will implement wide scale tariffs just to show he wasn’t wrong. He will burn the economy just to avoid the embarrassment of questions.

Admit it: they would work but The Cabal (Soros, BHO, and Hillary) and the Deep State are working against him and causing runaway inflation.

 

Edited October 17 by Bullneck

[Bullneck 19070]

2 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

He’ll hurt some people for the cameras, though. You can bank on that. 

Steven Miller: So, boss, you know that scene in Schindler's List where they round up the Jews in Poland?

Trump: Yes, great scene.  A lot of people say that's the best scene in WWII and it won the Oscar.

Steven Miller: I want to shoot a sequel and be the Nazi guy in that scene.  Except I won't be all tired out at the end. Sound OK?  Can I command some troops for that?

[cactusflinthead 27597]

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

5 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/10/16/kamala-harris-israel-gaza-lebanon/

Israel complicates election’s final stretch, an issue Democrats hoped would fade

Benjamin Netanyahu’s escalating assaults in Gaza and Lebanon have become a growing vulnerability for Kamala Harris amid her bid for the presidency.

Spoilering this because it's long and paywalled:

  Hide contents

President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris hoped the ongoing violence in the Middle East might simmer below the surface in the final weeks of the presidential race, but fresh Israeli military offensives are making that virtually impossible, U.S. officials and campaign aides say.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has set the Gaza Strip ablaze with a renewed bombing campaign and launched a ground invasion into Lebanon alongside aerial strikes in Beirut aimed at annihilating the militant group Hezbollah. He is expected to order an imminent attack on Iran’s military facilities in response to its missile strike on Israel this month.

The rapid escalation has tied the Biden administration in knots, resulting in the United States first calling for an immediate cease-fire in Lebanon only to reverse that policy nine days later and openly endorse Israel’s ground offensive.

The whiplash has caused confusion and consternation among Washington’s European and Arab allies who are pushing for the United States to restrain its closest ally in the Middle East. But administration officials remain loath to pick a public fight at such a tenuous moment politically.

“They clearly want to avoid any public confrontation with Netanyahu over Lebanon or Gaza that could result in blowback from Israel’s supporters before the election,” said Frank Lowenstein, a Biden ally and former Middle East negotiator in the Obama administration.

“At the same time, they are sensitive to losing critical Arab American votes in key swing states if their rhetoric leans too far in Israel’s direction,” he added.

The administration has issued statements in response to recent incidents that have drawn international backlash, including Israel’s attacks on U.N. peacekeepers in Lebanon; its deadly bombing of Gaza’s al-Aqsa hospital, which engulfed nearby tent camps in flames; and a U.N. report indicating no food has entered northern Gaza in nearly two weeks. Yet those remarks have been carefully calibrated to avoid portraying a sharp break with Netanyahu.

The latest opportunity to do so came Tuesday, when Israeli media published the contents of a confidential letter from Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin urging Israel to allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza or face potential restrictions on U.S. military assistance. Within hours of the letter’s disclosure, spokespeople for the White House and State Department clarified that it “was not meant to be taken as a threat” and that no action would be taken in the next 30 days — pushing any potential punitive action until after the election. They declined to say if weapons restrictions were even on the table.

This account of the Biden administration’s handling of ballooning violence in the Middle East during the election’s final weeks is based on interviews with more than two dozen officials from the United States, Europe and the Middle East as well as Harris’s campaign. The dynamic they conveyed is of an improvisational White House that has followed Israel’s lead into a widening regional war while only marginally influencing Netanyahu’s actions. Some spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss their observations.

The war’s spread has alarmed the Harris campaign, which sees the images of dead civilians as complicating her path to victory in key swing states with sizable Arab American and Muslim populations.

“It’s a huge concern. It comes down to people saying, ‘I can’t support anyone who supports a genocide,’” a person who advises the campaign said.

Israel denies that its military operations in Gaza constitute genocide.

‘Look at our track record’

The Biden administration contends that critics underestimate the impact it has had in reducing the scale of Israel’s invasion into Lebanon, increasing the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza and preventing a full-scale war with Iran. Officials say they are constantly working to dissuade Netanyahu from bombing Beirut and scale back his planned counterattack on Iran, which some fear could include strikes on nuclear or oil facilities, a prospect that could upend the global economy.

“Look at our track record of intervening to get humanitarian assistance in,” State Department spokesman Matthew Miller told reporters Tuesday. “When we have seen the results not measure up to the standards that we expect, we have intervened with them.”

But according to the administration’s own assessment, the amount of aid delivered to Gaza has dropped by more than 50 percent since the spring. In Lebanon on Wednesday, Israeli airstrikes resumed near Beirut’s southern suburb, hitting what the Israeli military called an underground weapon storage facility used by Hezbollah. Other Israeli strikes in southern Lebanon hit government buildings in Nabatieh, killing at least six people, including the mayor.

Israeli officials say they will not kowtow to the United States about targets in Lebanon, where more than 1,700 people have been killed and 1.2 million displaced since fighting intensified in mid-September. “We will continue to hit Hezbollah mercilessly in all parts of Lebanon — also in Beirut,” Netanyahu said.

No final decision has been made about targets to strike in Iran, Israeli officials say, but an attack is expected in the coming days.

In Gaza, most U.S. officials concede the two sides will not reach a cease-fire-hostage deal by the end of the year. That process was bogged down amid demands from Hamas about prisoner exchanges and Israel on keeping its troops along the Gaza-Egypt border.

The dilemma has caused current and former officials to reflect on how Washington could have avoided the quagmire.

Andrew Miller, who recently stepped down as the State Department’s top official for Israeli-Palestinian issues, said the United States was too quick to accept Israel’s expanding operations without understanding their scope.

“What we did had the effect of endorsing Israel’s military campaign before understanding whether Israel had a viable exit strategy,” he said in an interview. “I don’t think there’s anyone in the administration who could say with a straight face Israel had a clearly defined end-state.”

Inside the Harris campaign, concerns are particularly acute in Michigan, home to one of the nation’s largest Arab American and Muslim populations, with about 300,000 people who claim ancestry from North Africa or the Middle East.

Polls show Harris and her Republican opponent, former president Donald Trump, effectively tied there and in other battleground states that will decide the election. Harris’s clearest path to victory is in the “Blue Wall” states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and she has few paths to the presidency without winning the Wolverine State, where she is holding five events in three days this week.

When Harris first entered the race, her advisers hoped the fact that she had distinguished herself from Biden by speaking more forcefully about Palestinian suffering would help win over a sizable segment of Arab American and Muslim voters who are angry over the administration’s support of Israel.

But winning their support has become more difficult as Israel’s military campaign has intensified with U.S. backing.

Israeli officials say the assaults are needed to prevent another Oct. 7, the day in 2023 that Hamas-led fighters killed 1,200 people in Israel and took more than 250 hostage. The American political calendar is not a factor in the sequencing of the war, an Israeli official told The Washington Post. “The timing of strikes is solely determined by operational considerations, nothing else,” the official said.

The botched cease-fire

Despite a year’s worth of failed efforts to end hostilities in Lebanon and Gaza, U.S. officials saw their last best opportunity during the U.N. General Assembly in New York late last month.

Biden’s envoy, Amos Hochstein, had been holding calls with Lebanese negotiators in Beirut into the early hours of the morning on Sept. 26 as he consulted with Israeli officials in New York on the language of a cease-fire statement.

Eventually, U.S. and French officials received enough positive signals from Israeli and Lebanese counterparts to release a joint U.S.-French statement calling for a 21-day cessation of hostilities. U.S. officials touted the statement to reporters as a “breakthrough.” The optimists in Biden’s inner circle thought a cease-fire in Lebanon could open a backdoor to one in Gaza, ending hostilities just before the election.

Diplomats discussed the details of a possible U.N. Security Council resolution, including semantics like whether to use the word “cease-fire” or “truce,” a Western diplomat said.

Meanwhile, Netanyahu instructed his armed forces to “continue fighting at full force” in remarks that embarrassed U.S. officials who leaned on the prime minister’s top aide, Ron Dermer, to issue a statement in support of the cease-fire discussions.

French and Lebanese officials believed the various sides were close to entering a truce while U.S. officials said they were still days away from implementing an agreement due to discrepancies, including rules for Hezbollah and Israeli troops movements.

Then on Sept. 27, a fleet of Israeli F-15s dropped dozens of bombs on a building in the southern suburbs of Beirut, killing Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah and his top aides. The attack eliminated one of Israel’s most ruthless foes, a dominant political and military figure in Lebanon for decades. It also killed any chance for the U.S.-France cease-fire proposal.

“It all went up into thin air,” the Western diplomat said.

Israeli officials said that Netanyahu was never interested in a cease-fire and that a miscommunication occurred between the White House and the prime minister’s office. U.S. officials say the prime minister changed his mind, either as a result of pressure from his right-wing cabinet or upon receiving actionable intelligence about Nasrallah’s whereabouts.

The next phase

Sensing an opportunity to build on the decapitation of Hezbollah’s leadership, Netanyahu authorized a ground invasion of Lebanon on Oct. 1 to destroy the infrastructure the group used to fire rockets into Israel.

In a televised address, Netanyahu said the people of Lebanon could oust Hezbollah or suffer the fate of Gaza, where more than 42,000 Palestinians have been killed, according to local health authorities. “You have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss,” Netanyahu said.

Privately, administration officials were outraged and said Netanyahu’s threats risked uniting Lebanon’s fractured society against the invasion. “He’s an unbelievably flawed messenger,” a senior U.S. official said.

But Biden and his top advisers agreed with Netanyahu’s premise that the weakening of Hezbollah could be exploited to reshape Lebanon’s politics and appoint a new president. A limited incursion was backed by Blinken, Hochstein, Austin, Middle East coordinator Brett McGurk and White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan, said officials familiar with the matter.

But like with other Israeli promises, the mission expanded, including major bombardments of towns and villages involving civilian casualties that U.S. officials say they strongly oppose.

Analysts are skeptical that the lofty goals of the United States and Israel in Lebanon are achievable before Biden leaves office.

“I don’t think there’s enough time left to accomplish that,” said Andrew Miller, the former State Department official. “At the most, you could potentially see the appointment of a new president, but even that’s going to be extraordinarily difficult.”

 

Considering that Bibi met with Trump while he was here, would not be shocked if some of this escalation was cooked up by the Trump hangers on (Trump wouldn't think of this himself as his brain is mush) as an October surprise type thing.

Also, fuck Bibi.  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13562]

9 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Trump has the mental capacity of a 6 year old. Except, unlike a normal 6 year old, he doesn’t have the curiosity to ask questions or mental capacity to process the answer. 

3 year old

 

[Wayne 571]

 

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

8 hours ago, Derka said:

does anyone know how to get the entire tweet to embed?

 

You can't; you need to copy/paste the text from the tweet here.  It's a twitter thing.

 

 

 

 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21142]

5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

let’s be real for a minute. this will not cost billions, this will not decimate the supply chain or the economy. this will not affect food in any way. 

because he won’t actually do it.

not because it’s wrong or complicated or will have an effect on food or the economy, it’s because trump doesn’t actually do anything.

he loves to talk about stuff, he doesn’t like to do stuff. he loves to campaign, he has no idea how to govern. 

thankfully it won’t be a problem. 

I think the plan is IF dotard gets elected, Vance and his backers will have Donny 25th'd out of office.  And Vance WOULD do this and all the other Project 25 bullshit. 

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bret-baier-shares-his-impressions-of-kamala-harris-after-contentious-sit-down?ref=home?ref=home

 

Quote

Fox News host Bret Baier recapped his Wednesday night interview with Vice President Kamala Harris, telling his colleagues that he got a sense early on that Harris “was going to be tough to redirect without me trying to interrupt.”

The interview, Harris’ first on the right-wing network since becoming the Democratic nominee, was broadcast on Special Report after being filmed in the previous hour. According to Baier, the interview had been scheduled for 5 p.m., but Harris showed up 15 minutes late. This, he complained, was like “icing the kicker” in football.

 

Quote

“We were supposed to start at 5 p.m. This was the time they gave us. Originally, we were going to do 25 or 30 minutes. They came in and said, ‘Well, maybe 20.’ So, it’s already getting whittled down. And then the vice president showed up at about 5:15 p.m. We were pushing the envelope to be able to turn it around for the top of the 6 p.m.. So that’s how it started,” Baier said.

The Fox host, who would go on to interrupt Harris’s responses several times, said their first exchange—on immigration—showed that she would be “tough.”

 

Quote

“I could tell when we started talking that she was going to be tough to redirect without me trying to interrupt,” said Baier, who likened his experience to interviewing Barack Obama years ago. “I did this with President Obama—at one point I just said, ‘Mr. President, I know you like to filibuster.’ I just didn’t even have the chance, sometimes, to redirect in those ways. I had a lot of other questions.”

Baier said later that towards the conclusion of the interview, he could see members of Harris’ team signaling that his time was up.

“I’m talking, like, four people waving their hands like it’s got to stop,” he said, adding that Harris might benefit by doing similar interviews in the future.

“Maybe she should do more of these,” he said.

 

Spoiler

Later, in an interview with conservative personality Mark Levin, Baier expanded, saying, “There was a slight bit of frustration” and that, “I had so much stuff to get to.

“I was hoping it was going to be this civil back-and-forth, but it was good for her to come on and I think she should do more of them, but I was just trying to get through the talking points and it took a while, and it was a little bit of, you know, interrupting, and kind of, getting in on the breath.”

“They wanted a viral moment,” Baier suggested, repeating how his initial time was allegedly trimmed by the Harris campaign and that Harris was late.

“I was really hoping it was going to go the way I envisioned which was more like a conversation about topics. We could say, ‘You have differences, this is where I am,’ I would press but in a respectful way. And I’ve done many of those interviews where it’s really fruitful to have a back-and-forth and you get some place, and you actually learn something about policy and where they are. Then, I thought, it could be the other way. It could be that this is meant for a viral moment and essentially, this is practice for a debate and so I need to be able to get my questions as much as I can in a respectful but tough way and hope that she comes back when she’s in a different, talkative mood and we learn more.”

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21142]

Oh go fuck yourself, Brett.  

[SydneyCarton 47993]

2 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bret-baier-shares-his-impressions-of-kamala-harris-after-contentious-sit-down?ref=home?ref=home

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Later, in an interview with conservative personality Mark Levin, Baier expanded, saying, “There was a slight bit of frustration” and that, “I had so much stuff to get to.

“I was hoping it was going to be this civil back-and-forth, but it was good for her to come on and I think she should do more of them, but I was just trying to get through the talking points and it took a while, and it was a little bit of, you know, interrupting, and kind of, getting in on the breath.”

“They wanted a viral moment,” Baier suggested, repeating how his initial time was allegedly trimmed by the Harris campaign and that Harris was late.

“I was really hoping it was going to go the way I envisioned which was more like a conversation about topics. We could say, ‘You have differences, this is where I am,’ I would press but in a respectful way. And I’ve done many of those interviews where it’s really fruitful to have a back-and-forth and you get some place, and you actually learn something about policy and where they are. Then, I thought, it could be the other way. It could be that this is meant for a viral moment and essentially, this is practice for a debate and so I need to be able to get my questions as much as I can in a respectful but tough way and hope that she comes back when she’s in a different, talkative mood and we learn more.”

 

That’s a fun way to try and make a normal interview sound controversial. And by fun I mean “weak fucking sauce.”

[HenryJames 65969]

6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I think the plan is IF dotard gets elected, Vance and his backers will have Donny 25th'd out of office.  And Vance WOULD do this and all the other Project 25 bullshit. 

Trump is the power in the party, not Vance. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21142]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Trump is the power in the party, not Vance. 

Totally agree.  But, once they have the power of POTUS, they don't have to worry about voting anymore.  86 Donny, put a puppet like Vance in power and don't give it up.  They have the backing of SCOTUS and I imagine they have a path mapped out to control the military, as well. 

Hello Project 25 and goodbye democracy. 

Edited October 17 by DigglerontheHoof

[Chuckie Finster 22687]

Originally, we were going to do 25 or 30 minutes.

The official video of the interview on Fox News’s website is 26:44. Sounds like stellar time management from the future president!

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

13 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bret-baier-shares-his-impressions-of-kamala-harris-after-contentious-sit-down?ref=home?ref=home

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Later, in an interview with conservative personality Mark Levin, Baier expanded, saying, “There was a slight bit of frustration” and that, “I had so much stuff to get to.

“I was hoping it was going to be this civil back-and-forth, but it was good for her to come on and I think she should do more of them, but I was just trying to get through the talking points and it took a while, and it was a little bit of, you know, interrupting, and kind of, getting in on the breath.”

“They wanted a viral moment,” Baier suggested, repeating how his initial time was allegedly trimmed by the Harris campaign and that Harris was late.

“I was really hoping it was going to go the way I envisioned which was more like a conversation about topics. We could say, ‘You have differences, this is where I am,’ I would press but in a respectful way. And I’ve done many of those interviews where it’s really fruitful to have a back-and-forth and you get some place, and you actually learn something about policy and where they are. Then, I thought, it could be the other way. It could be that this is meant for a viral moment and essentially, this is practice for a debate and so I need to be able to get my questions as much as I can in a respectful but tough way and hope that she comes back when she’s in a different, talkative mood and we learn more.”

 

“Icing the kicker”…

so the premise of the interview from Baier’s perspective was a battle between competing teams, and he was trying to score points for his team…and not, you know, actually conduct himself like a journalist.  
 

got it…

[C-Man 27172]

 

Saw that last night on Kimmel.

“Paid for by the Men Who Can Still See Their Dicks Committee”

[Francisco 2.0 32379]

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26407]

37 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

 

That’s awesome! “Paid for by guys who can still see their own dicks”

[Js1 85222]

Yeah, and Bret Baier says Obama and Harris like to filibuster in interviews.

Wtf

 

[Dnaguy 11872]

8 hours ago, Haphap said:

Did not win him over.

Also lady in the left reaction

 

 

Voter: [This fuckin’ guy]

Edited October 17 by Dnaguy

['stache 21786]

I don’t think the Univision interview was to sway Hispanic voters but to motivate Fox News viewers and get them pissed off that people spoke Spanish and didn’t kiss his ass.

[Biff Tannen 45646]

6 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

let’s be real for a minute. this will not cost billions, this will not decimate the supply chain or the economy. this will not affect food in any way. 

because he won’t actually do it.

not because it’s wrong or complicated or will have an effect on food or the economy, it’s because trump doesn’t actually do anything.

he loves to talk about stuff, he doesn’t like to do stuff. he loves to campaign, he has no idea how to govern. 

thankfully it won’t be a problem. 

You could be right, but I'd rather not roll the dice on this one.  Among the multitude of blathering shit gibbon diatribes he goes on, there are tons of things he spouts about that COULD actually happen and none of them are worth fucking around and finding out by putting him back in office.