Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[henrygandorf 29191]

hk - bernie has hired childish staffers.

bt - stop comparing bernie's campaign mgr to trump!

 

it's only august, fellas, maybe pace yourselves.

[bad_teammate 13208]

JS1 spoke the subtext out loud.

Y'all think you are 10x as clever as you actually are.

[Hank Kingsley 20960]

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Playing cute?

#sad

Trump never even crossed my mind, but I guess you think I'm trying to make comparisons with Trump's crowd comments? Okey dokey. 

It was more of a "JFC, who gives a shit about winning the crowd war at the Iowa state fair in August"?  Bernie and Warren drew huge crowds. Fighting over who should be declared the "winner" is ridiculous. 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Hank Kingsley

[henrygandorf 29191]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

JS1 spoke the subtext out loud.

then get mad at him.

 

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Y'all think you are 10x as clever as you actually are.

i'd have to run the numbers, but that math does not seem correct.

[bad_teammate 13208]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

It was more of a "JFC, who gives a shit about winning the crowd war at the Iowa state fair in August"?  Bernie and Warren drew huge crowds. Fighting over who was declared the "winner" is ridiculous. 

Was Nina doing that or was she just pointing out that Bernie had a big crowd and you're just one of like a million white guys online who have spent the last 4 years erasing the existence of millions of non-white/non-male Bernie supporters to validate a shitlib narrative that comforts their own lack of convictions and beliefs?

It's a thinker.

[Hank Kingsley 20960]

Are you ok? 

 

[Js1 85353]

10 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Are you ok? 

 

Warren has a mental health plan for this. 

[bad_teammate 13208]

13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Are you ok? 

Calmer'n you are, dude.

 

[henrygandorf 29191]

36 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Was Nina doing that or was she just pointing out that Bernie had a big crowd and you're just one of like a million white guys online who have spent the last 4 years erasing the existence of millions of non-white/non-male Bernie supporters to validate a shitlib narrative that comforts their own lack of convictions and beliefs?

[bad_teammate 13208]

26 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Warren has a mental health plan for this. 

Why would you compare Nina Turner to Donald Trump?

[bad_teammate 13208]

Weird how the Jewish candidate whose base is largely young/POC is the one who constantly gets compared to Trump by white guys.

[bad_teammate 13208]

Twitter trolls and mainstream media reporters are basically the same people.

 

[BradInATX 9208]

Internet-poisoned Bernie bros

Should we tell him?

[bad_teammate 13208]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Should we tell him?

 

I'm waiting with bated breath for the lifelong Republican's evaluation.

[Hank Kingsley 20960]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Twitter trolls and mainstream media reporters are basically the same people.

 

It sucks that Bernie - who is 1 million times the man Trump could ever dream of being - in a completely different context has a quote that sounds exactly like it came out of the mouth of  Trump. Red meat for the Bernie haters. What a shit show. 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13208]

Shitlibs when Bernie criticizes the media: "This is identical to Trump."

Shitlibs when Beto cusses the media out: "This is inspirational."

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

It's not about "red meat for the Bernie haters" and your concern trolling is even more pathetic than try-hard Bernie bros on Twitter yelling at WaPo reporters.

[Hank Kingsley 20960]

Whatever. I saw the video of that quote, and Bernie said it in his usual charming (at least charming to me) demeanor. It's ridiculous - but not surprising - that so many journalists are being reactionary and taking offense. I've said many times the media is failing us during this election cycle. 

But it's also unfortunate that the words uttered (without context) sound like a Trump quote. 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

All I know is, the WaPo published an absurdly huge number of anti-Bernie articles in the 2016 primary.  For whatever reason, they clearly have a stance against him. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Like this was all from just one 16-hour period:

[henrygandorf 29191]

40 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's not about "red meat for the Bernie haters" and your concern trolling is even more pathetic than try-hard Bernie bros on Twitter yelling at WaPo reporters.

be fair.

nothing is more pathetic than try-hard bernie bros on twitter yelling.

[bad_teammate 13208]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

be fair.

nothing is more pathetic than try-hard bernie bros on twitter yelling.

At least they're yelling at the actual reporters.

[bad_teammate 13208]

11 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Like this was all from just one 16-hour period:

You sound like Donald Trump.

And that makes me very concerned.

[bad_teammate 13208]

lol they fucking haaaaaate Bernie

Here's a WaPo hack laughing off the idea that the billionaire owner who pays them might influence coverage.

It's amazing how stupid smart people are.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20402]

David Ian Robin took out 137k in student loans.  Now he wants the U.S. taxpayer to bail him out. So he supports Bernie because Bernie is going to free him from responsibility for his bad decisions. 
 

 

[Dropout 355]

42 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

David Ian Robin took out 137k in student loans.  Now he wants the U.S. taxpayer to bail him out. So he supports Bernie because Bernie is going to free him from responsibility for his bad decisions. 
 

 

Csb 

https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/

Tax Wall Street Gambling to Cancel All Student Debt and Pay for College for All

We can guarantee higher education as a right for all and cancel all student debt for an estimated $2.2 trillion. To pay for this, we will impose a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy a decade ago. This Wall Street speculation tax will raise $2.4 trillionover the next ten years.  It works by placing a 0.5 percent tax on stock trades – 50 cents on every $100 of stock –  a 0.1 percent fee on bond trades, and a 0.005 percent fee on derivative trades. 

If Wall Street can be bailed out for several trillion dollars, 45 million Americans can and will be bailed out of the $1.6 trillion burden of student loan debt and we can provide free college for all. Some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax, including Britain, South Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland and China.

 

[bad_teammate 13208]

Nate Bronze

[Hornius Emeritus 12466]

7 hours ago, Dropout said:

Csb 

https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/

Tax Wall Street Gambling to Cancel All Student Debt and Pay for College for All

We can guarantee higher education as a right for all and cancel all student debt for an estimated $2.2 trillion. To pay for this, we will impose a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy a decade ago. This Wall Street speculation tax will raise $2.4 trillionover the next ten years.  It works by placing a 0.5 percent tax on stock trades – 50 cents on every $100 of stock –  a 0.1 percent fee on bond trades, and a 0.005 percent fee on derivative trades. 

If Wall Street can be bailed out for several trillion dollars, 45 million Americans can and will be bailed out of the $1.6 trillion burden of student loan debt and we can provide free college for all. Some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax, including Britain, South Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland and China.

 

 

LOL

[BradInATX 9208]

Csb 
https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/

Tax Wall Street Gambling to Cancel All Student Debt and Pay for College for All

We can guarantee higher education as a right for all and cancel all student debt for an estimated $2.2 trillion. To pay for this, we will impose a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy a decade ago. This Wall Street speculation tax will raise $2.4 trillionover the next ten years.  It works by placing a 0.5 percent tax on stock trades – 50 cents on every $100 of stock –  a 0.1 percent fee on bond trades, and a 0.005 percent fee on derivative trades. 

If Wall Street can be bailed out for several trillion dollars, 45 million Americans can and will be bailed out of the $1.6 trillion burden of student loan debt and we can provide free college for all. Some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax, including Britain, South Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil, Germany, France, Switzerland and China.

 

That's a tax on everyone who has a 401k.

[bad_teammate 13208]

I love the smell of Republican talking points in the morning.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

David Ian Robin took out 137k in student loans.  Now he wants the U.S. taxpayer to bail him out. So he supports Bernie because Bernie is going to free him from responsibility for his bad decisions. 
 

 

He should have become a farmer.   He'd already have been bailed out by the US taxpayer for the cost of his bad decisions.  Though, at least this guy got an education out of the deal, as opposed to a pointless trade war. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mojo Hand

[bad_teammate 13208]

He should have become a farmer.   He'd already have been bailed out by the US taxpayer for the cost of his bad decisions. 

Or an executive or anyone on Wall Street.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

7 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

He should have become a farmer.   He'd already have been bailed out by the US taxpayer for the cost of his bad decisions. 

Or an executive or anyone on Wall Street.

Say, I remember our president going broke a few times because of his bad decisions.   He even bankrupted a casino.    How is it that he was able to shed all of his debt so easily?   No matter — the important thing is that this kid should struggle the rest of his life because he took out loans for an education.   He should have known his place and become a mechanic or something! 

[bad_teammate 13208]

WaPo owned by Amazon
538 owned by Disney

Hmmmmmm

[BradInATX 9208]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I love the smell of Republican talking points in the morning.

Ah, my friend, regardless of what you say about the messenger, it's an indisputable fact that an FTT would negatively impact anyone who is saving for retirement. 

I have no issue with clearing student debt. In fact, it would make my wife and I about $50k richer. But there are much better ways to go about it. Just tax the rich to pay for it. Or, if you're going to do an FTT, implement it in a way to where you're only hitting algo traders, high-frequency institutional investors, and those that play with the more complex financial instruments. Why are derivative trades taxed at 1/100th of standard trades under this plan, when derivative trades are much more frequently used by the  "fat cat" types than by retirement investors? One could implement a similar plan with provisions that avoid hitting your average 401k holder. But that would require more nuance than Bernie has shown to have with regard to policy. Per par, it's a half-baked plan that's more about the sound byte ("kill Wall Street") than the actual Main Street repercussions. Which of course, I don't blame him for, because that's what you guys are in to. Gotta play to your base.

No need to respond - I've already told you I'm not interested in attempting serious conversations with non-serious people. But if there are any other folks that want to take a shot at it, please feel free.

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by BradInATX

[Js1 85353]

11 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

be fair.

nothing is more pathetic than try-hard bernie bros on twitter yelling.

That's what they do best! 

[bad_teammate 13208]

Weird! This group that went nuclear on Bernie early is just a Koch group pretending to be liberal?

It's almost like Bernie knows this stuff.

[bad_teammate 13208]

it's an indisputable fact that an FTT would negatively impact anyone who is saving for retirement. 

Environmental regulations do, as well, but that doesn't make them taxes on 401ks.

That language and framing is the Republican talking points.

Which makes sense, because you're a Republican.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

I like Warren's wealth tax more. 

[Rougarou 594]

BT is like a bellwether for the Bernie campaign. When things are looking good he's somewhat put together and can keep his shirt on. When it's falling apart he's thrashing around like a madman at anyone who posts on this thread. I do like that BT is conceding to Queen Elizabeth W. though, like all people should.

[UTDD 362]

41 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Ah, my friend, regardless of what you say about the messenger, it's an indisputable fact that an FTT would negatively impact anyone who is saving for retirement. 

I have no issue with clearing student debt. In fact, it would make my wife and I about $50k richer. But there are much better ways to go about it. Just tax the rich to pay for it. Or, if you're going to do an FTT, implement it in a way to where you're only hitting algo traders, high-frequency institutional investors, and those that play with the more complex financial instruments. Why are derivative trades taxed at 1/100th of standard trades under this plan, when derivative trades are much more frequently used by the  "fat cat" types than by retirement investors? One could implement a similar plan with provisions that avoid hitting your average 401k holder. But that would require more nuance than Bernie has shown to have with regard to policy. Per par, it's a half-baked plan that's more about the sound byte ("kill Wall Street") than the actual Main Street repercussions. Which of course, I don't blame him for, because that's what you guys are in to. Gotta play to your base.

No need to respond - I've already told you I'm not interested in attempting serious conversations with non-serious people. But if there are any other folks that want to take a shot at it, please feel free.

 

Treating all standard trades this way across the board is really questionable in my opinion if I have the facts right.  There is little doubt that many middle class people with their smaller nest eggs (versus larger institutional investors and hedge funds, etc) are going to be disproportionally impacted.  It is so easy to distinguish specific trades with more targeted taxes to impact larger - and richer - investors (frequency/value of trading, derivative, algorithm) versus a flat rate across the board.  In fact, Warren seems to have done just that with some of her own proposals.  Let's take a simple idea -- income tax.  We target richer people in theory by having a larger tax rate for higher income.  People might scream if someone proposed a flat rate for all tax brackets no matter the income going into the billions -- but I feel like this proposal is kind of analogous in that it would apply to a "low bracket" newbie investor making a standard trade with literally only $500 in his retirement account the exact same way as a $25 billion hedge fund making say the exact same trade except with tens of thousands of extra volume being traded?  (I haven't read the actual plan, so feel free to correct me if this is not the case, but this is the impression I got)    

[bad_teammate 13208]

Details on why this won't impact the little guy very much, if you are interested.

While the financial industry will make great efforts to convince people that this money is coming out of the middle-class’ 401(k)s and workers’ pensions, that’s not likely to be true. This can be seen with some simple arithmetic.

Take a person with $100,000 with a 401(k). Suppose 20 percent of it turns over each year, meaning that the manager of the account sells $20,000 worth of stock and replaces it with $20,000 worth of different stocks. In this case, if we assume the entire 0.5 percent specified in the Sanders-Lee bill is passed on to investors, then this person will pay $100 a year in tax on their 401(k).

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Details on why this won't impact the little guy very much, if you are interested.

While the financial industry will make great efforts to convince people that this money is coming out of the middle-class’ 401(k)s and workers’ pensions, that’s not likely to be true. This can be seen with some simple arithmetic.

Take a person with $100,000 with a 401(k). Suppose 20 percent of it turns over each year, meaning that the manager of the account sells $20,000 worth of stock and replaces it with $20,000 worth of different stocks. In this case, if we assume the entire 0.5 percent specified in the Sanders-Lee bill is passed on to investors, then this person will pay $100 a year in tax on their 401(k).

LOL. That's not at all how mutual funds or ETFs work, which is where the majority of 401k money sits. Simple answers for simple people.

Edited August 13, 2019 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

37 minutes ago, UTDD said:

Treating all standard trades this way across the board is really questionable in my opinion if I have the facts right.  There is little doubt that many middle class people with their smaller nest eggs (versus larger institutional investors and hedge funds, etc) are going to be disproportionally impacted.  It is so easy to distinguish specific trades with more targeted taxes to impact larger - and richer - investors (frequency/value of trading, derivative, algorithm) versus a flat rate across the board.  In fact, Warren seems to have done just that with some of her own proposals.  Let's take a simple idea -- income tax.  We target richer people in theory by having a larger tax rate for higher income.  People might scream if someone proposed a flat rate for all tax brackets no matter the income going into the billions -- but I feel like this proposal is kind of analogous in that it would apply to a "low bracket" newbie investor making a standard trade with literally only $500 in his retirement account the exact same way as a $25 billion hedge fund making say the exact same trade except with tens of thousands of extra volume being traded?  (I haven't read the actual plan, so feel free to correct me if this is not the case, but this is the impression I got)    

Yeah, that's sort of how I'm seeing it. It's essentially a flat tax. If I've got 100k invested in SPY and you have 5 million, every time the fund rebalances you and I both get hit with half of one percent of whatever we have invested. You with your 5 million are already probably getting lower overhead on your trades (and probably have it in something with much lower annual cost than SPY anyway). 

So I guess Sanders is a big flat tax guy. That's strange for him.

As you said, there are certainly ways to target institutional investors, money middle-men, etc. without hitting people in their 401ks or SEP IRAs etc. It just doesn't seem Bernie is interested in that level of detail. I haven't seen Warren's plan but I'll take a look when I have a chance. Would love to see something along the lines of an FTT, but more intelligently constructed. I get going after wall street and the people that make money off of doing nothing but moving money. But it's really poor optics to tax the 401ks of working Americans who are being responsible and putting away money for retirement in order to help people who willingly entered a contract for their student loans (my wife and her $50k remaining included). Especially in the rust belt with a lot of folks who don't have student loan debt but have union pensions or retirement accounts that would lose money on this. Trump would love this. Bernie, the gift that keeps on giving..

Edited August 13, 2019 by BradInATX

[David Dennison 18891]

20 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Yeah, that's sort of how I'm seeing it. It's essentially a flat tax. If I've got 100k invested in SPY and you have 5 million, every time the fund rebalances you and I both get hit with half of one percent of whatever we have invested. You with your 5 million are already probably getting lower overhead on your trades (and probably have it in something with much lower annual cost than SPY anyway). 

So I guess Sanders is a big flat tax guy. That's strange for him.

As you said, there are certainly ways to target institutional investors, money middle-men, etc. without hitting people in their 401ks or SEP IRAs etc. It just doesn't seem Bernie is interested in that level of detail. I haven't seen Warren's plan but I'll take a look when I have a chance. Would love to see something along the lines of an FTT, but more intelligently constructed. I get going after wall street and the people that make money off of doing nothing but moving money. But it's really poor optics to tax the 401ks of working Americans who are being responsible and putting away money for retirement in order to help people who willingly entered a contract for their student loans (my wife and her $50k remaining included). Especially in the rust belt with a lot of folks who don't have student loan debt but have union pensions or retirement accounts that would lose money on this. Trump would love this. Bernie, the gift that keeps on giving..

They wouldn't lose much money, much less than they are going to lose in capital gains and/or income taxes on those investment vehicles. 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They wouldn't lose much money, much less than they are going to lose in capital gains and/or income taxes on those investment vehicles. 

Bernie 2020. "Hey Mr. UAW worker - we want to tax your pension to pay off student loans for other people, but you won't lose much money"

There's a winner.

Just tax the effing rich to pay for it. It's not hard. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by BradInATX

[David Dennison 18891]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Bernie 2020. "Hey Mr. UAW worker - we want to tax your pension to pay off student loans for other people, but you won't lose much money"

There's a winner.

Just tax the effing rich to pay for it. It's not hard. 

Passing legislation to tax the rich is much harder than passing legislation to tax the middle class and the poor.

They have much better lobbyists.

[BradInATX 9208]

Passing legislation to tax the rich is much harder than passing legislation to tax the middle class and the poor.

They have much better lobbyists.

Well, yeah.

 

But someone needs to fight that fight. And a large majority of the country supports it. If the answer to the typical tired GOP "how are you going to pay for it" thing was "we aren't, the Waltons and Kochs and California tech bros are", that talking point would be largely destroyed. So do it. Because this is not the way.

 

[bad_teammate 13208]

The only difference between the pundit class and Twitter trolls is that the pundits get paid (usually by billionaires).

[bad_teammate 13208]

Well, yeah.  
But someone needs to fight that fight.

That's what Bernie is doing, Republican, and it's why you hate him.

[BradInATX 9208]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

That's what Bernie is doing, Republican, and it's why you hate him.

 

But of course the entire conversation went right over your head.

Taxing the middle class is not fighting that fight. Taxing the middle class as a way to fund progressive policies is business as usual. But if you like status quo, more power to you. Some of us want to change things.

Edited August 13, 2019 by BradInATX