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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Knowing you are hungry and others are not is not hard to understand.

Sure, but the idea that this knowledge spurs 30 million Horatio Alger stories is unrealistic even if it is the prevailing narrative used to justify wealth stratification under neoliberal capitalism.

You can know you're hungry and others aren't and...
- Become a noble goodboy and work extra hard and succeed
- Steal
- Abuse others to deal with the stress
- Work extra hard but not succeed for 20k different reasons
- Do OK for a little while then fall back and get sick
- Give up and accept what little you can get from others

Quote

Superior humans?

It's my snarky way of dealing with the idea that success in a capitalist society has to do with moral worth. When huge swaths of people are dismissed as "lazy" that's dismissing their humanity and elevating oneself up as some kind of inherently more moral, more superior human being.

I actually don't believe wealthy people are more moral, noble, virtuous, good, or worthy than poor people. I don't believe our economic system is a meritocracy or anything close to it. There are vague elements of meritocracy involved, but the game is basically fixed in myriad ways that are entirely out of the control of the individual actors.

So I completely reject your idea that you can just drive all around Houston to find "lazy" people. I have no idea what that even looks like.

Quote

Well our anecdotal experiences vary. Until my recent gig, every company I’ve worked have been international (one headquartered in Europe).  I’ve been told a few times (3?) how lucky we are here that you can actually have a business. You can hang your shingle and make something. Funny thing the last time I was told that, was from a well to do Dutch guy who owns several businesses here.  He has never hurt for money, and was VERY well educated.  But he didn’t “make it” until he got to the US.

The mobility to go from rich to richer isn't what I'm talking about. I absolutely agree it's easier to horde wealth here and make everyone underneath you suffer as a result, and people I've talked to agree with that.

The statistics take into account the massive, massive underclass that your anecdotal scope is ignoring.

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Hank Scorpio
Hank Scorpio

When Bernie is president only the rich children will be put in cages. 

Johnny Sack
Johnny Sack

Watching you commie fucks lose this election is going to be enjoyable. 

Longhorn_Fan68
Longhorn_Fan68

it is really, really stupid that in the richest country in the world people are dying from lack of insulin. it's unconscionable, really.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So I completely reject your idea that you can just drive all around Houston to find "lazy" people. I have no idea what that even looks like.

You can start with the able bodied 20 somethings at all 4 corners of each intersection.  It wasn’t like that 10 years ago. Fucking cinco ranch has peddlers on occasion now.  If you are in your 20’s, and you are in better shape than me, there’s a job for you.  If you have no fucking legs, here’s a buck. 
 

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's my snarky way of dealing with the idea that success in a capitalist society has to do with moral worth

that’s what I figured. 
 

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

When huge swaths of people are dismissed as "lazy" that's dismissing their humanity and elevating oneself up as some kind of inherently more moral, more superior human being.

It is not. There’s are literally millions of people in this country that will go home, turn on the cable, and sit there until it’s time to sleep. Picture what people here often call Trumpkins.  That’s prime time to be doing something useful.  If you skipped college, hit the local cc.  If you job sucks, search for another.   Successful people more often than not “can’t turn it off”. They are always moving, always hunting that next idea...so they can make money. Sitting down to watch 2 hours of dancing with the stars doesn’t even register with them. In other words, they typically are not lazy. 

19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I absolutely agree it's easier to horde wealth here and make everyone underneath you suffer as a result,

No one in my example caused any suffering. Dude started a business and put people to work, then started another, then bought into another, and so forth.  I fail to see who suffered. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

Posted
Posted
Just now, fattyflattie said:

You can start with the able bodied 20 somethings at all 4 corners of each intersection.  It wasn’t like that 10 years ago. Fucking cinco ranch has peddlers on occasion now.  If you are in your 20’s, and you are in better shape than me, there’s a job for you.  If you have no fucking legs, here’s a buck. 

It's interesting to me that you seem(ed) genuinely taken aback at the realization that your own position seems tenuous while still above 95+% of your fellow Americans, but your reaction to that is to apparently double-down on hostility towards the lower classes.

Quote

It is not. There’s are literally millions of people in this country that will go home, turn on the cable, and sit there until it’s time to sleep.

Let's just assume this is a fair characterization...

What does that tell your dispassionate, empirical mind about humanity? What does it tell you about how we should structure society to create the best possible one we could have?

What does your ideal society look like knowing that it has to involve real human beings?

Quote

No one in my example caused any suffering. Dude started a business and put people to work, then started another, then bought into another, and so forth.  I fail to see who suffered. 

There is no free lunch. Resources are limited and the more you and I have, the less others have.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's interesting to me that you seem(ed) genuinely taken aback at the realization that your own position seems tenuous while still above 95+% of your fellow Americans, but your reaction to that is to apparently double-down on hostility towards the lower classes.

If tenuous is what you got, I may have poorly worded it.   I could damn near have a Ferrari in the garage for what I pay in daycare.  Wife and I have been back and forth on getting a coastal home for the last few years. Like I initially said, we are “OK”.  We keep our vehicles as long as they are reliable, we save, we don’t fine dine, and we pay for a shitload of daycare. Both college educated, her salary might cover daycare. 
 

I’m surrounded by what seems like a million of the same house, west of town.  It’s hard for me to imagine how some afford new (250-500k) house, king ranch 3/4 ton, Denali Yukon, vacations, and kids if only 13% make over 100k.  At least at the rate that Houston is building them, that is all.  
 

I would have guessed 25% on the six figure statistic, minimum.  Maybe it’s my definitions that are out of whack, I would consider the above, “middle class”.   It damn sure shouldn’t be considered “rich”.  I guess credit is king for the “middle class”  

What surprised me was that a little more than 300k was top 1% and that 13% of people make less than 6 figures.   I have a couple of hohum degrees from a less than stellar institution and getting to a six figure salary took well less than 5 years.  I worked hard (could’ve worked harder), but even my shitheel peers seemed to do well.  I was genuinely taken back, and slightly concerned, when I read that.  I also don’t ever remember the slight bump in my checks even though I’ve apparently blown past the threshold for working on a decade now.  I don’t watch things that closely but figured I would have noticed that. I don’t know the details of how SS works, so I’ll look into that before I form an opinion on the cap.  But generally I’m less in favor of things that screw me or my money. 

13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

There is no free lunch. Resources are limited and the more you and I have, the less others have.

There is not. Just like everything else, resources are limited. It’s what drives some to gather more resources for their efforts, but doesn’t drive those who are comfortable to lay their ass on the couch and watch Rick Perry dance. It’s exactly why those two people shouldn’t be compensated the same. One cares, one doesn’t.  Why should Walton’s money be distributed to equalize that. 
 

Really don’t want to fuck up this thread. Is there a better “wealth redistribution” thread or something? 

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17924

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

 I could damn near have a Ferrari in the garage for what I pay in daycare.  Wife and I have been back and forth on getting a coastal home for the last few years. Like I initially said, we are “OK”.  

God dammit. Once again reality completely defeats any attempt at satire. I didn't even think to frame it as a debate about buying a vacation home and I totally missed the Italian super car angle. 

Edited by Hank Scorpio
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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
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1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

what's yours?

That what you earn shouldn’t be distributed to others solely because it’s “unfair”.   I’m not nor will I ever be a billionaire. But suggesting playing Robin Hood with their wealth so that you can win the “poor” vote is sickening. 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34104

Posted
Posted
Just now, fattyflattie said:

That what you earn shouldn’t be distributed to others solely because it’s “unfair”.   I’m not nor will I ever be a billionaire. But suggesting playing Robin Hood with their wealth so that you can win the “poor” vote is sickening. 

psst, when they talk of wealth redistribution, they're not talking about you

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

psst, when they talk of wealth redistribution, they're not talking about you

Psst. You read over the part where I said I wasn’t a billionaire? 

And you may want to check that. Upthread it was “new plans for salaries >250k”. 
 

But fuck it, let’s screw every billionaire. How much am I getting? 

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Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio 17924

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What is the difference between me, a tone deaf rich white guy who complains about not having a Ferrari or a vacation home, and this other rich white guy who actively supports a series of progressive agendas and candidates with an aim to redistribute wealth to the less fortunate and stem the rampant tide of wealth concentration? 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34104

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

What is the difference between me, a tone deaf rich white guy who complains about not having a Ferrari or a vacation home, and this other rich white guy who actively supports a series of progressive agendas and candidates with an aim to redistribute wealth to the less fortunate and stem the rampant tide of wealth concentration? 

you gave Homer Simpson the Denver Broncos?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

What is the difference between me, a tone deaf rich white guy who complains about not having a Ferrari or a vacation home, and this other rich white guy who actively supports a series of progressive agendas and candidates with an aim to redistribute wealth to the less fortunate and stem the rampant tide of wealth concentration? 

You don’t believe in walls?
You don’t have bums in your town?  That’s all the Scorpio I got. 
 

And lol at “rich guy” and “complains he doesn’t have a Ferrari”.  It’s the first thing I thought of when I thought of what extravagant thing costs a couple hundred grand. Let me rephrase.  I could have paid off my house with what I’ve paid in daycare.  Feel better? 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34104

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

You don’t believe in walls?
You don’t have bums in your town?  That’s all the Scorpio I got. 
 

And lol at “rich guy” and “complains he doesn’t have a Ferrari”.  It’s the first thing I thought of when I thought of what extravagant thing costs a couple hundred grand. Let me rephrase.  I could have paid off my house with what I’ve paid in daycare.  Feel better? 

#BlameBillionaires

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

#BlameBillionaires

I do.  They’ve made it so hard on me. I’m surprised I was able to accomplish the little bit that I have. I can’t wait to flourish and really spread my wings, once they are removed of their evil wealth, of course. 
 

eta- good to see he’s up and going at it again. The man has no quit. 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34104

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

I do.  They’ve made it so hard on me. I’m surprised I was able to accomplish the little bit that I have. I can’t wait to flourish and really spread my wings, once they are removed of their evil wealth, of course. 
 

eta- good to see he’s up and going at it again. The man has no quit. 

that's the rub. we're already pretty fucked. your child, however, might be better off. trickle down economics works, but not the direction they told us. I get exhausted with people saying paying more taxes is bad. it used to be super patriotic to pay your taxes. it wasn't that long ago. since you used the childcare example - research what people in Sweden pay for childcare. I've been there. Seems like a pretty prosperous nation to me. know what I didn't see - homeless people.

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 7009

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bernie’s ability to coverup a full blown heart attack in the middle of a presidential campaign just proves he’s ready for the Oval Office.  

Very FDR like.

Except FDR wasn’t gonna die from having polio as a child. Bernie is old and is at risk of another. This is gonna hurt him. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Except FDR wasn’t gonna die from having polio as a child. Bernie is old and is at risk of another. This is gonna hurt him. 

FDR covered up a lot more than his polio but it was a different time back then.  He had congestive heart failure for like a year that no one knew about except his inner circle.  It ended up killing him. 

 If anyone can survive this it’s Bernie.  His supporters aren’t going anywhere. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32077

Posted
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59 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Except FDR wasn’t gonna die from having polio as a child. Bernie is old and is at risk of another. This is gonna hurt him. 

 

37 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

FDR covered up a lot more than his polio but it was a different time back then.  He had congestive heart failure for like a year that no one knew about except his inner circle.  It ended up killing him. 

 If anyone can survive this it Bernie.  His supporters aren’t going anywhere. 

Geebus.

FDR didn't have polio as a child.  What he had, most likely Guillain-Barre, hit him at 39,  years before he was elected president.

Toward the end of his life he was in generally poor health as a smoker, and he did have congestive heart failure and the high blood pressure that causes/accompanies it, but he died of a massive stroke/aneurysm/brain bleed.  He did minimize his poor health, probably just like any president would.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

he did have congestive heart failure and the high blood pressure that causes/accompanies it, but he died of a massive stroke/aneurysm/brain bleed.

My mistake, I thought the stroke/aneurysm was attributed to complications from the congestive heart failure. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, RayDog said:

If he made it to the general all we would hear is he is too sick to be president. He could lose.

Voters will decide but he probably wants to stay in for his supporters/movement.   

Bernie in the race also helps Liz because he makes her seem less radical.  Dick Cheney had like eight heart attacks and a heart transplant and he’s still kicking. 

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted

(He’s too old.)

And my “Everything Is Sexist; This Country Sucks” hackles are up.

Hillary fell off a curb and merely fainted in the heat and the media - led by Conspiracy Trumpy - treated us to “Is Hillary Sick?????” (just asking questions!) coverage nonstop.

Bernie has an actual heart attack and...........

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

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Posted

CNN.com - Front, top (no need to scroll)
MSNBC.com - Front, top (no need to scroll)
FOXNews.com - Front, middle (tiny scroll)
ABCNews.com - Front, top (no need to scroll)
NBCNews.com - Front, top (no need to scroll)
Wapo.com - Front, middle (slightly more than FOX scroll)
nytimes.com - Front, middle (slightly more than FOX scroll)

Yahoo! News - NOT EVEN ON THE FRONT PAGE!

wHy Is tHe MeDiA cOvErInG tHiS uP!?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

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Posted
16 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

That what you earn shouldn’t be distributed to others solely because it’s “unfair”.

In what sense do you "earn" what you have?

My money comes from managing a company that pays people to go out and destroy the natural environment of people in other states/countries to extract liquids and gasses to be refined in other environmentally/health-destructive processes in other places.

I absolutely "earn" what I get in the context of me getting checks for performing the tasks and those tasks resulting in revenue increases. I receive what I am "owed" in terms of the business contracts that exist.

But when you say things like "shouldn't" you're getting into the realm of moral and value judgement. "Should" is a conditional, subjective word. So on what moral or values basis "should" I get the money I get for doing a job that someone could very easily argue is a net negative for humanity?

You walked right up to the edge of a realization and now you're running screaming back into the warm embrace of the propaganda.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19534

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

In what sense do you "earn" what you have?

My money comes from managing a company that pays people to go out and destroy the natural environment of people in other states/countries to extract liquids and gasses to be refined in other environmentally/health-destructive processes in other places.

I absolutely "earn" what I get in the context of me getting checks for performing the tasks and those tasks resulting in revenue increases. I receive what I am "owed" in terms of the business contracts that exist.

But when you say things like "shouldn't" you're getting into the realm of moral and value judgement. "Should" is a conditional, subjective word. So on what moral or values basis "should" I get the money I get for doing a job that someone could very easily argue is a net negative for humanity?

You walked right up to the edge of a realization and now you're running screaming back into the warm embrace of the propaganda.

 

Why are you doing that for a living given your politics?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13514

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Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Why are you doing that for a living given your politics?

Because the two things aren't really connected. I'm not a performative wokeness guy, because performative acts aren't really about anything other than assuaging ego (3rd party voting, boycotting Chick-Fil-A/Nike, etc...).

To the extent that what I believe and what I do contradict, I am happy to own the contradiction. In my mind, it is better to do that than to do what most others do and lie to myself and others in an attempt to pretend that my life and existence are actually victimless. I'll go ahead and look at and acknowledge the uncomfortable reality and not retreat back into the cave.

Why do any of us do what we do, knowing what we know about the world?

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