Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

veal cages

Bernie will move the child camps from the border to all the most prestigious private schools around the country. There will be a huge detention center outside Phillips Exeter Academy full of lily white boys named Archibald and Chauncey who are then dragged in front of a judge and convicted for crimes their parents committed and sent back to Europe. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Hank Scorpio

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

4 hours ago, Xian said:

There is a big difference between being against the embargo (which I am) and praising Castro.  Castro was a ruthless murderer who committed near genocide. 
 

Cite statistics for this "near genocide" please. 

2 hours ago, Irieguy said:

Yea only people in Florida care about it. That’s not an important State is it?!??

That number diminishes in Florida every day as the old Cubans die off and more and more Puerto Ricans, South Americans, Haitians, and Dominicans take their place. And it's always bothered me that because of a quirk in our electoral politics, the entire nation has to bow down and blow a few cranky old rich Cubans in Miami.

And while a win in Florida would be nice, it is not being counted on as necessary. 

[Irieguy 1059]

5 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And it's always bothered me that because of a quirk in our electoral politics, the entire nation has to bow down and blow a few cranky old rich Cubans in Miami.

Oh I didn’t realize that reality bothered you. I retract my statement and apologize. 

[bad_teammate 13226]

There's no way this guy could ever win

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

6 minutes ago, Irieguy said:

Oh I didn’t realize that reality bothered you. I retract my statement and apologize. 

Well, I am sorry but it does. Many of the Miami Cubans were ardent supporters of a grotesque and corrupt dictatorship and then they get to come to America and give us eight years of Bush.

Sorry I am bothered by that. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Well, I am sorry but it does. Many of the Miami Cubans were ardent supporters of a grotesque and corrupt dictatorship and then they get to come to America and give us eight years of Bush.

Sorry I am bothered by that. 

It's pathetic how many of us Americans have literally no understanding of world history. For reference,

[bad_teammate 13226]

Love this picture.

[bad_teammate 13226]

Bernie is going to replace the Churchill bust in the Oval Office with a bust of Che Guevara

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Love this picture.

Hell yes. When you and the boys need to let off some steam after freeing the proletariat. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

Commies love BBQ -- Castro proved it when he came to Houston in 1959. Bernie is going to give us Brisket4All. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by MaybeACoordinator

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Love this picture.

Cool fact. The nicest golf course I have ever played in was in Cuba.   The old Xanadu compound 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

Looks like the media's plan to get Bernie and his surrogates to talk about Cuba is working. 

[bad_teammate 13226]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Looks like the media's plan to get Bernie and his surrogates to talk about Cuba is working. 

Take whatever your enemy thinks is going to be a weakness, trivialize it, own it, and laugh at it. Don't play scared. Never show fear. Never apologize.

Right-winger: "Oh so Bernie loves Fidel Castro?!?!"

Virgin Liberal response: "Uh, no no no! He didn't mean it! He hates Fidel! HE'S A GOOD RED BLOODED AMERICAN PATRIOT I SWEAR!"
Chad Leftist response: "Hell yeah, they would bond over their shared love of baseball after a round of passionate love-making."

[workswithseed 2121]

I hear Cuba was so awesome when Fidel came into power that Florida men just sail thier shitty pontoons there to be embraced by the proletariat.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

22 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

It's pathetic how many of us Americans have literally no understanding of world history. For reference,

Wow. You realize there is a nice medium  between a right wing tyrant and left wing one, right?   Ps. Not all Cuban refuges are the damn asshole Peter Pans. A lot came later and actually experienced life under communism.  Here is a hint. It sucked more being a poor farmer after than the revolution than it did before. Especially once Castro dictated what crops you could plant on what was your land. 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

42 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Cite statistics for this "near genocide" please. 

That number diminishes in Florida every day as the old Cubans die off and more and more Puerto Ricans, South Americans, Haitians, and Dominicans take their place. And it's always bothered me that because of a quirk in our electoral politics, the entire nation has to bow down and blow a few cranky old rich Cubans in Miami.

And while a win in Florida would be nice, it is not being counted on as necessary. 

One link after a quick search

[GSU&UT 1798]

5 minutes ago, Xian said:

Wow. You realize there is a nice medium  between a right wing tyrant and left wing one, right?   Ps. Not all Cuban refuges are the damn asshole Peter Pans. A lot came later and actually experienced life under communism.  Here is a hint. It sucked more being a poor farmer after than the revolution than it did before. Especially once Castro dictated what crops you could plant on what was your land. 

Reminder that 1). no one outside a few people and neo-cons gives a shit about any of this, and 2). I believe you already said you are going to leave your presidential choice blank because you just can't bring yourself to support Bernie so I do not give one single fuck about your criticism.

Also 3). Obama had the same damn kind of thing to say, Bernie literally condemned the authoritarian nature in the same sentence as saying that Castro was able to garner support because he improved the lives of many people. This is all disingenuous shit and I'm not here advocating for a Cuban-Marxist style that we need to adopt as a country, I'm just tired of people making remarks that are not grounded in any reality in the year 2020.

Edited February 24, 2020 by GSU&UT

[Zombie 284]

One link after a quick search

That was an article about quilts representing people alleged to have been murdered by Castro. Castro was a thug, but that article hardly supports an allegation of genocide with emperical verifiable data.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

2 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Reminder that 1). no one outside a few people and neo-cons gives a shit about any of this, and 2). I believe you already said you are going to leave your presidential choice blank because you just can't bring yourself to support Bernie so I do not give one single fuck about your criticism.

Also 3). Obama had the same damn kind of thing to say, Bernie literally condemned the authoritarian nature in the same sentence as saying that Castro was able to garner support because he improved the lives of many people. This is all disingenuous shit and I'm not here advocating for a Cuban-Marxist style that we need to adopt as a country, I'm just tired of people making remarks that are not grounded in any reality in the year 2020.

 Neocons are even fucking worse. A bunch of Marco Rubio Peter Pan fuck boys. 
 

It’s not that hard. The embargo needs to be dropped ASAP.  Let Cuba do whatever it wants to do under Diaz-Canel   Just don’t sing misguided praise on the asshole that is Castro. 

 

 

[Hornius Emeritus 12495]

Bernie will choose Julian Castro for a running mate and we'll get to watch all of South Florida's heads implode.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, Xian said:

 Neocons are even fucking worse. A bunch of Marco Rubio Peter Pan fuck boys. 
 

It’s not that hard. The embargo needs to be dropped ASAP.  Let Cuba do whatever it wants to do under Diaz-Canel   Just don’t sing misguided praise on the asshole that is Castro. 

 

 

No one is doing that, we're saying that he implemented policies that were popular. I choose to live in a world where people can understand an ounce of nuance especially when the quote was literally given with qualifier "we condemn the authoritarian nature of the communist/Castro regime." This is just candy for people who can't understand why some of us don't have this Cold-War reflex that they grew up with.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13530]

Bernie would get rid of Trump's horrendous policies but then most likely create other policies that help push America to ruin. It's doubtful he would get much passed thru Congress for his crazy  ideas, but he would have exec orders that would cause a lot of damage.

If it's Trump vs Bernie, perhaps I will vote for Bernie or just sit out. I feel both are bad candidates and I wouldn't vote for Bernie just because of the caged kids issue. I don't even know to what extent that is still an issue now. 

[bad_teammate 13226]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bernie would get rid of Trump's horrendous policies but then most likely create other policies that help push America to ruin. It's doubtful he would get much passed thru Congress for his crazy  ideas, but he would have exec orders that would cause a lot of damage.

If it's Trump vs Bernie, perhaps I will vote for Bernie or just sit out. I feel both are bad candidates and I wouldn't vote for Bernie just because of the caged kids issue. I don't even know to what extent that is still an issue now. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33901]

7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bernie would get rid of Trump's horrendous policies but then most likely create other policies that help push America to ruin. It's doubtful he would get much passed thru Congress for his crazy  ideas, but he would have exec orders that would cause a lot of damage.

If it's Trump vs Bernie, perhaps I will vote for Bernie or just sit out. I feel both are bad candidates and I wouldn't vote for Bernie just because of the caged kids issue. I don't even know to what extent that is still an issue now. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

34 minutes ago, Xian said:

One link after a quick search

Even the Florida paper that ran that 22-year-old story cast a little shade on the number cited by that not-biased-at-all advocacy group. I've seen numbers ranging from 238 executions (Amnesty International) to tens of thousands (various anti-Castro groups). And even if it was 10000 or 20000 that's hardly a genocide in the context of a civil war / revolution. 

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33901]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Even the Florida paper that ran that 22-year-old story cast a little shade on the number cited by that not-biased-at-all advocacy group. I've seen numbers ranging from 238 executions (Amnesty International) to tens of thousands (various anti-Castro groups). And even if it was 10000 or 20000 that's hardly a genocide in the context of a civil war / revolution. 

 

right? how many people have died in US prisons from wrongful sentences or sentences that were too harsh in that same time span? probably a helluva lot more.

[Sbbruin 21904]

27 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Even the Florida paper that ran that 22-year-old story cast a little shade on the number cited by that not-biased-at-all advocacy group. I've seen numbers ranging from 238 executions (Amnesty International) to tens of thousands (various anti-Castro groups). And even if it was 10000 or 20000 that's hardly a genocide in the context of a civil war / revolution. 

 

So you're saying Castro was bad, just not Hitler/Stalin bad, right?

[GSU&UT 1798]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

So you're saying Castro was bad, just not Hitler/Stalin bad, right?

Fucking got 'em, good lord dude is going to have to log-off forever now.

[F250 28883]

50 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bernie would get rid of Trump's horrendous policies but then most likely create other policies that help push America to ruin. It's doubtful he would get much passed thru Congress for his crazy  ideas, but he would have exec orders that would cause a lot of damage.

If it's Trump vs Bernie, perhaps I will vote for Bernie or just sit out. I feel both are bad candidates and I wouldn't vote for Bernie just because of the caged kids issue. I don't even know to what extent that is still an issue now. 

Out of curiosity, what is your criteria for inhumane treatment of immigrants and refugees?

It kinda sounds like unless it's Auschwitz level it really isn't an issue for you.

[bad_teammate 13226]

Not only is Fidel Castro not Hitler-bad, he's got exponentially less blood on his hands than many US Presidents.

Fall on your fainting couch. Play Lee Greenwood at max volume. Scream "COMMUNIST!" into your pillow. Do whatever you gotta do to deal with it, but Fidel Castro is a much better human being than George W Bush. By miles and miles.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13530]

27 minutes ago, F250 said:

Out of curiosity, what is your criteria for inhumane treatment of immigrants and refugees?

It kinda sounds like unless it's Auschwitz level it really isn't an issue for you.

I can be against Trump's immigration policy and believe Bernie is bad for the country as POTUS as well.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

 

[David Dennison 18993]

45 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Not only is Fidel Castro not Hitler-bad, he's got exponentially less blood on his hands than many US Presidents.

Fall on your fainting couch. Play Lee Greenwood at max volume. Scream "COMMUNIST!" into your pillow. Do whatever you gotta do to deal with it, but Fidel Castro is a much better human being than George W Bush. By miles and miles.

 

I have only one question: did the Castro regime ever kill political dissidents?

[GSU&UT 1798]

This is a good thread.

 

[bad_teammate 13226]

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I have only one question: did the Castro regime ever kill political dissidents?

 

[F250 28883]

44 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I can be against Trump's immigration policy and believe Bernie is bad for the country as POTUS as well.

I was just curious as to how bad does Trump have to be on immigration for it to be an issue for you. My assumption is that it's not really an issue at all which is the case for a lot of people. Would you say you are in the "I don't care, do you" category?

 

[David Dennison 18993]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Regardless of the United States' hypocritical penchant for similarly murderous regimes that buttress the American brand of capitalism (see Saudi Arabia and China), it might not be best idea to associate your politics with a regime that an entire generation of American voters still associates with Joseph Stalin, especially if you are going to need those voters to win a general election.

Maybe it won't matter. Maybe young people will finally vote. 

Fingers crossed.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13530]

13 minutes ago, F250 said:

I was just curious as to how bad does Trump have to be on immigration for it to be an issue for you. My assumption is that it's not really an issue at all which is the case for a lot of people. Would you say you are in the "I don't care, do you" category?

 

It's not in my top 5 issues for why we need to kick Trump out of office.

I don't think of this as a binary choice of either Trump or Bernie for POTUS. I think both are fundamentally bad for America. Obviously very different but both take America in bad directions.

EDIT: I also think Bernie loses to Trump so I'm settling in on the idea that we have Trump for another 5 years.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie

[bad_teammate 13226]

Keep it up, rats and oligarchs, keep it up.

 

[bad_teammate 13226]

Definitely gonna happen, definitely gonna own

"He's a nasty guy, a nasty guy."

[GSU&UT 1798]

19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Definitely gonna happen, definitely gonna own

"He's a nasty guy, a nasty guy."

That is the only one I'm maybe a little worried about because it's just going to be used in the most disingenuous way and Bernie will have to likely defend it more aggressively, I don't think nearly enough people will care about something he said about Cuba in the 80s.

[bad_teammate 13226]

It's salacious for sure, so FOX will love it and hammer it for Bernie's entire life. I hope the media starts making a big deal out of it right now so they'll get a little more bored with it and Bernie finds the right responses.

My advice for Bernard, of course, is to not apologize for it.

[BrazilHorn 6638]

If Bernie is D nominee I will vote for him, but I would like him to REALLY start to offer some specifics as to how he plans to pay for all of his ideas.

Just seems a little late in game to be so nebulous as to how he plans to funds things. "Tax the rich" isn't really answer. When you are talking trillions of dollars to pay for his plans, banging on billionaires won't necessarily cut it.

 

[bad_teammate 13226]

Just now, BrazilHorn said:

If Bernie is D nominee I will vote for him, but I would like him to REALLY start to offer some specifics as to how he plans to pay for all of his ideas.

Just seems a little late in game to be so nebulous as to how he plans to funds things. "Tax the rich" isn't really answer. When you are talking trillions of dollars to pay for his plans, banging on billionaires won't necessarily cut it.

M4A financing options, from Bernie's Senate website

 

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 minute ago, BrazilHorn said:

If Bernie is D nominee I will vote for him, but I would like him to REALLY start to offer some specifics as to how he plans to pay for all of his ideas.

Just seems a little late in game to be so nebulous as to how he plans to funds things. "Tax the rich" isn't really answer. When you are talking trillions of dollars to pay for his plans, banging on billionaires won't necessarily cut it.

 

I posted this earlier in the thread my dude,

20 hours ago, GSU&UT said:

Almost like his campaign website has all the information you'd need.

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/green-new-deal/

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

https://berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/

 

And I anticipate your response will be "I don't believe that at all he's LYYYYING" in which case I'll think back to when you kept pushing Amy freaking Klobuchar who seriously thinks a couple of tax credits are going to fix the student debt crisis.

[BrazilHorn 6638]

1 minute ago, GSU&UT said:

I posted this earlier in the thread my dude,

Thanks, missed it (bad scrolling)

Although there are no specifics on the medicare for all link. I don't dispute what he wants to do with M4A, just how we plans to pay for it and what it costs etc.

Green new deal he lays out $16T spend but no mention of how/where dollars are coming from.

I like his passion and energy and think he has some strong aspirations, I worry that he hasn't rationalized them with how exactly to fund them. Admittedly he is in campaign mode so he can't say "close these 5 military bases" etc but that is kind of thing I want to see. I am all for cutting defense spending. How much & by when and how does it fund programs etc etc

Edited February 24, 2020 by BrazilHorn

[bad_teammate 13226]

8 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

I like his passion and energy and think he has some strong aspirations, I worry that he hasn't rationalized them with how exactly to fund them. Admittedly he is in campaign mode so he can't say "close these 5 military bases" etc but that is kind of thing I want to see. I am all for cutting defense spending. How much & by when and how does it fund programs etc etc

Patience, grasshopper.

I posted the M4A financing options.

As for the Green New Deal, that's not even optional spending, really. To me, that's basically like spending on fighting WWII or a foreign invasion. It would be nice to be revenue-neutral or whatever, but literally saving the planet is just something we need to do.

Luckily, he wants to structure saving the planet as a jobs program and a program to inject the economy with trillions in more liquid capital, so it'll end up being an economic boon in addition to saving our earth.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

4 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

So you're saying Castro was bad, just not Hitler/Stalin bad, right?

I'm quibbling over the term "genocide" that was introduced by some idiot regarding Castro. I am almost 50 years old and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Castro's genocide. It looks like the anti-Castro fanatics in Florida tried to sell that bullshit years ago and the rest of the world was just like 'Nah, sorry, this may suck but it's not genocide. It's not the Holocaust, not the Armenian genocide, not Hutus and Tutsis, not the Irish potato famine, not Stalin or Mao's purges, not the Rape of Nanking, not the 'settling of the American west,' not any number of bloodlettings in the Balkans or Central America, but just plain old post-revolutionary reprisals wherein somewhere between 200 and 10000 people were killed depending on which side you believe in a country of 12 or so million."

Castro's regime sucked but you have to wonder if he might have toned down the paranoia a little bit if our government didn't hatch dozens of attempts on his life, foment rebellion against him on our shores for decades, institute a travel ban on Americans and a crippling embargo, and oh yeah, launch a half-hearted full-scale invasion of his country. If the shoe were on the other foot, if Castro had the way and means to fuck with America the way we did him, many of the posters on this board would be hollering for weekly mass executions of suspected spies and traitors and reporting posts by the regime's haters to the Internet Police. Maybe justifiably.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

Personally, I would like to take down the Soviet Union and make sure Fidel Castro doesn’t control Cuba anymore. 

Whose with me!

[JimmyJames 12271]

The last couple weeks have truly been eye opening the extent to which corporate America controls our mass media, all because of Bernie. The mask has been taken off, so to speak. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by JimmyJames