Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[Brothahorn 10087]

[/url] Where is an open borders candidate when you need one? 

I may not agree with 99% of Bernie’s policies, but at least he is honest and doesn’t just say what people want to hear. Unlike the other 57 candidates.

Ouch.  Come on Bernie.  You can do this.  Release your damn taxes.

Give the man until the 15th.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Decent thread from a pro-Bernie guy on his latest immigration comments.

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Bernie is abrupt and dismissive with his answers, and as a result his answers can really suck compared to people who are more politic. (See: Reparations answers in 2016 and 2019 which are identical content-wise to Dem orthodoxy, but he starts with "No" instead of a long, winding, politically lubricating throat-clearing that ends up at "No".)

He's a grumpy old curmudgeon. His blessing and curse.

[bad_teammate 13195]

Picture-in-Picture to get the full Grandpa Bernie face

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Bernie's "I'd rather not nuke the filibuster" stance is disturbing.

#DoBetter Bernie

[GSU&UT 1798]

8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Bernie's "I'd rather not nuke the filibuster" stance is disturbing.

#DoBetter Bernie

Yeah that legit didn't make sense. Warren rightly understands that the GOP isn't playing by the rules anyways so what the hell is the point anymore of keeping it?

[bad_teammate 13195]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Yeah that legit didn't make sense. Warren rightly understands that the GOP isn't playing by the rules anyways so what the hell is the point anymore of keeping it?

My hope is he's trying to signal ULTIMATE VICTORY and not talk about compromises until it is absolutely necessary to think/talk about them.

My fear is that he's been in the Senate so long he worships its norms like a shitty shitty shitty politician.

Please don't let me down, grandfather

As president it wouldn't really be up to him anyway, but he needs to Do Better

[EuroHorn 3264]

Bernie nomination will get trump re-elected or an independent elected 

[bad_teammate 13195]

A worrying thing about Democrats in general is their lack of specifics on immigration. The reality is that the Democratic Party orthodoxy is basically identical to Republican Party orthodoxy.

Better politicians than Bernie can handle these issues and questions with more aplomb interpersonally, but even if we look past the supremely awful tone and consideration of Bernie's answer at the underlying message ("comprehensive immigration reform"), it's uninspiring at best and disturbing at worst.

Climate change is going to make immigration more common as people flee ecological disaster and the resulting economic disaster. What is our plan?

The post 2016 Democratic Party usually just looks to Bernie for direction, but without Bernie forging a path it's kind of... nothing.

Castro and O'Rourke, being border-state guys, could pick up the slack with some clear vision and messaging on immigration, but it's not there.

I don't think Bernie's natural bailiwick is going to be Southern border issues. He's been in Vermont for roughly 800 years and his own history as the son of an immigrant is the Ellis Island style of immigration, not the Desert Coyote style.

I wasn't surprised by the callous dismissiveness of his answer, but I'm depressed by the lack of meaningful follow-up.

I really want to think "at this point" means something.

[triplehorn 2664]

19 hours ago, EuroHorn said:

Bernie nomination will get trump re-elected or an independent elected 

Very real threat.

 

 

[henrygandorf 29191]

14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

A worrying thing about Democrats in general is their lack of specifics on immigration. The reality is that the Democratic Party orthodoxy is basically identical to Republican Party orthodoxy.

Better politicians than Bernie can handle these issues and questions with more aplomb interpersonally, but even if we look past the supremely awful tone and consideration of Bernie's answer at the underlying message ("comprehensive immigration reform"), it's uninspiring at best and disturbing at worst.

Climate change is going to make immigration more common as people flee ecological disaster and the resulting economic disaster. What is our plan?

The post 2016 Democratic Party usually just looks to Bernie for direction, but without Bernie forging a path it's kind of... nothing.

Castro and O'Rourke, being border-state guys, could pick up the slack with some clear vision and messaging on immigration, but it's not there.

I don't think Bernie's natural bailiwick is going to be Southern border issues. He's been in Vermont for roughly 800 years and his own history as the son of an immigrant is the Ellis Island style of immigration, not the Desert Coyote style.

I wasn't surprised by the callous dismissiveness of his answer, but I'm depressed by the lack of meaningful follow-up.

I really want to think "at this point" means something.

i'm sure it'll be a topic during the debates (or upcoming town halls), especially for beto/castro/kamala, because of what you said.  they better have something ready.

[bad_teammate 13195]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i'm sure it'll be a topic during the debates (or upcoming town halls), especially for beto/castro/kamala, because of what you said.  they better have something ready.

Yeah if Bernie's answer is consistently, "Oh my word, all the poor people! Can you imagine?" again then that's going to be really bad.

[bad_teammate 13195]

@Hugo Stiglitz

If you're interested in getting a look at Bernie's finances while we wait for tax returns, you can find his Senate financial disclosure forms here for 2013-2016.

2016 Report has over $800k in book royalties. Grandpa getting PAID off that socialism grift.

 

[tucker 238]

Lulz  Bernie tells the poor to write a book

 

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Heel Turn 2020: Bernie loses the nomination to Kamala.

During a general election debate between Trump and Harris, the lights go dark and a Jumbotron starts playing...

"BAH GAWD, THAT'S BERNIE SANDERS'S MUSIC!"

*Bernie shuffles out with a top-hat, cane, monocole, and perfectly round burlap sack with a huge green dollar sign on it*

*hits Kamala in the knee with the cane*

"This is a message from the one percent!"

[bad_teammate 13195]

Ashamed of Bernie shaming and humiliating this Woman of Color about her Hip Urban Slang.

#DoBetter

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Gonna need a Birdie Seeders t-shirt.

 

[EuroHorn 3264]

Creepy Joe Biden approves that tweet...

Edited April 10, 2019 by EuroHorn

[David Dennison 18860]

#NotMe

[bad_teammate 13195]

I'm ready for the hot takes on "well if he's a socialist how can he have all this money?" in which #Resistance people become indistinguishable from the MAGA people.

[Celery Man 20949]

Bernie is lucky he doesn’t have to worry about the Bernie people

[bad_teammate 13195]

7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Bernie is lucky he doesn’t have to worry about the Bernie people

you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy

[BrazilHorn 6606]

On 4/8/2019 at 7:43 PM, GSU&UT said:

Yeah that legit didn't make sense. Warren rightly understands that the GOP isn't playing by the rules anyways so what the hell is the point anymore of keeping it?

Wasn’t it Reid who completely changed rules when Ds had super majority?

neither side behaves themselves when given power. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Bernie hasn't said, "Under no circumstances will I ever approve of breaking the filibuster."

What is the point of focusing on procedural strategy right now? What percentage of voters knows what the Senate filibuster even is or cares about it?

If we can get what we need to get done without breaking the filibuster, that's preferable. If we need to in the moment, let's talk about it then.

Is there someone who thinks the Senate would face the need to break it to  pass Medicare for All and President Sanders would say to a Dem Senate Majority Leader, "No, if we can't get 60, then I refuse to sign my own preferred legislation if you break the filibuster to get it to my desk!"?

Take a breath.

[GSU&UT 1798]

C'mon BT, you just complained about this the other day with me now you're basically saying "why does it matter ?" It shouldn't cost him political points to just take a simple stance when asked, I can't imagine most of us who like him would disagree with the filibuster's abolishment.

[bad_teammate 13195]

I was under the impression that he was more against it than he actually seems to be. I read this from him today.

"The problem, though, that I believe, is whether you’re in the majority or the minority, I think you have to protect minority rights. I don’t think you can just simply shove everything through. There’s an argument for that, by the way, but that’s not where I am right now."

In a larger electoral context it doesn't matter. To me and my fellow avid weirdos who pay too much attention, it does.

I would like for Bernie to be more forceful about it, but his mindset might be different than mine with regard to the possibility of getting things passed through the existing structure (whether that's an insane landslide in 2020, budget reconciliation, winning Republican votes after a wave election).

I prefer Buttigieg's and Warren's messaging on it. 100% their take makes me feel good and Bernie's messaging makes me nervous.

[bad_teammate 13195]

Elizabeth Breunig, the brilliant cutie, has a challenge for those who are angry that Bernie is a millionaire: Vote for him.

Quote

One might argue that Sanders should’ve donated whatever money he made nearing the million-dollar mark to charity — and one might also ask why he ought not have donated every single dollar he made over his family’s immediate subsistence needs, regardless of the final tally. Sanders does do some charitable giving, but it’s worth noting that charity and socialism are nowhere near synonymous; this is why the right-wing proposal to let free markets reign and rely on individual giving to meet the needs of the poor is something like the political opposite of Sanders’s program. So while charitable giving is certainly a good thing to do, and I wholly endorse doing it, Sanders neglecting to de-millionize himself through alms isn’t a failure to adequately commit to socialism.

It may instead be a failure of another kind: Call it cupidity, or — worse for political types — an insensitivity to optics. Neither misstep compromises the final integrity of Sanders’s politics nor implies he’s insufficiently serious about them, especially after so many decades pushing the same policies with no best-selling books or millions to show for it.

But whatever the critique, honest or dishonest, I agree with the general sentiment: A few people owning stockpiles of wealth while many more go without is unjust. So if you’re bothered by Bernie’s big payday, take action now: Vote for him. You can raise not only his taxes but also the taxes of millionaires across the country, and reap the benefits in the form of universal programs such as Medicare-for-all. Have so many birds ever been felled by a single stone?

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

18 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

My bigger question from this last part of the thread is why you guys disagree with Bernie’s answer on immigration.  Yes, we don’t need a wall and Trump’s insulting racism on the topic.  But you seriously disagree with Bernie saying we can’t have completely open borders and no regulation on immigration?  It’s controversial to suggest America shouldn’t want every poor person in the world to come here?

Bernie's response was to:

1) Express shock at the idea of all the poor people who would come over the border
2) Say "comprehensive immigration reform"

This isn't leadership on this extremely important issue. This is Bernie being just as bad as Obama but even less politically or personally sensitive to the suffering of those who feel that America is a place of refuge.

Being an obstinate asshole with regard to the rich is awesome. Being an obstinate asshole with regard to the poor is terrible.

We need to decriminalize border crossing as a start.

[bad_teammate 13195]

GLORIOUS LEADER HEARD OUR PLEAS

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20400]

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

And... what?

There was even a Q&A where Bernie defended reproductive freedom in front of thousands and thousands of evangelicals.

Watch the Q&A portion here, seriously.

#RESISTANCE libs are so god damned stupid

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by bad_teammate

[triplehorn 2664]

Hmmm ---> New Monmouth poll for Iowa 4/11/19 :  Biden leads pack

Biden  27%

Sanders 17%

Buttigeig 9%

Harris 7%

Warren 7%

 

How 'bout that Mayor 

[bad_teammate 13195]

Listen to the obviously majority-female group of Liberty University students SCREAMING approval when Bernie loudly and forcefully defends a woman's right to choose.

We shouldn't be going there to give those students a voice? We should pretend that tens, hundreds of millions of Americans just don't exist?

I hope Bernie goes to Liberty again and speaks all of that truth to a whole new crop of young Liberty University students. I hope he does a few FOX town halls and speaks to some Southern Baptist conventions.

Stay scared, garbage libs.

[triplehorn 2664]

Poor bernie.

[bad_teammate 13195]

8 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Poor bernie.

Not worried.

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

Listen to the obviously majority-female group of Liberty University students SCREAMING approval when Bernie loudly and forcefully defends a woman's right to choose.
We shouldn't be going there to give those students a voice? We should pretend that tens, hundreds of millions of Americans just don't exist?
I hope Bernie goes to Liberty again and speaks all of that truth to a whole new crop of young Liberty University students. I hope he does a few FOX town halls and speaks to some Southern Baptist conventions.
Stay scared, garbage libs.

Imagine his response had it been Biden instead of Bernie, folks.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Wait, that was back in 2015.

[Celery Man 20949]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Listen to the obviously majority-female group of Liberty University students SCREAMING approval when Bernie loudly and forcefully defends a woman's right to choose.

We shouldn't be going there to give those students a voice? We should pretend that tens, hundreds of millions of Americans just don't exist?

I hope Bernie goes to Liberty again and speaks all of that truth to a whole new crop of young Liberty University students. I hope he does a few FOX town halls and speaks to some Southern Baptist conventions.

Stay scared, garbage libs.

 

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Are the types of people who care so much about Jesus that they were won over by Mike Pence likely to care about the moral scolding of a 37-year-old gay man who goes around playing piano and speaking Norwegian?

No doubt it's good way to get attention in a primary, of course.

So it's kind of a Trumpian game of winning over the Dem base by demeaning their enemy? Whoever can own the conservatives the hardest?

 

[bad_teammate 13195]

This was Bernie, a progressive Jew, in front of a massive crowd of ideologically hostile white evangelicals being constantly respectful of their beliefs and forceful in defending his own. He wasn't attacking anyone personally, attacking anyone's faith, or claiming to be a better Christian.

Pete goes after Pence personally in front of supportive progressive crowds.

I have no idea what equivalence you think you're drawing.

[American Swindle 102]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Hmmm ---> New Monmouth poll for Iowa 4/11/19 :  Biden leads pack

Biden  27%

Sanders 17%

Buttigeig 9%

Harris 7%

Warren 7%

 

How 'bout that Mayor 

Where is Tulsi Gabbard?  No love for her at all by the establishment?  Oh yeah, she's against regime-change wars, a major deal breaker for the powers that be. 

[Celery Man 20949]

Speaking to Christians.

[bad_teammate 13195]

12 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Speaking to Christians.

When did Pete do that?

The Victory Fund is an LGBTQ political organization (an awesome one, but certainly not a Christian one).

Not exactly Liberty University lol

[Celery Man 20949]

27 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

When did Pete do that?

The Victory Fund is an LGBTQ political organization (an awesome one, but certainly not a Christian one).

Not exactly Liberty University lol

Were there “tens, hundreds of millions” in the crowd at Liberty?  Is the audience of any campaign speech the people standing literally in front of the candidate?

[Celery Man 20949]

btw Buttigieg has shown himself willing to speak to less friendly audiences.  We’re getting sidetracked.  In one place you laugh at the prospect of reaching Christians.  In another, you passionately argue that they deserve to be heard.  But if you can’t recognize the inconsistency there and reflect on where it might come from, ok buddy.  Stay on brand.

[bad_teammate 13195]

16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Were there “tens, hundreds of millions” in the crowd at Liberty?  Is the audience of any campaign speech the people standing literally in front of the candidate?

There were many thousands of evangelicals at Liberty that absolutely represent the values, culture, and beliefs of tens/hundreds of millions of Americans.

The audience of a campaign speech is not simply the people in front of them, but those likely to be paying attention. And there is no Christian conservative group that even knows what The Victory Fund is, much less is likely to pay attention. Pete is doing nothing there except getting applause from a safe home crowd, both in person at the speech and basically anyone who would even pay attention.

Which is fine. He needs to raise his profile and make room for himself in the progressive lane. It's a good strategy for those two things, but it wasn't Daniel going into the Lion's Den.

10 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

In one place you laugh at the prospect of reaching Christians.

In what way was Pete trying to "reach" Christians? Watch the speech. Where is the outreach?

I have zero problem with Pete going on FOX. I have zero problem with progressives going to talk to Christians and conservatives and racists. I take shit all the time because I want Bernie to go on FOX and give speeches on progressive values to racist white working class crowds. It's part of what makes me a detestable Bernie Bro, my desire to have the message spread to the swine.

[Celery Man 20949]

I don't know what the Victory Fund is.

Pete is trying to reach Christians broadly in the strategy he's described - reclaiming faith and values as things that not only do not belong to the right, but are far more consistent with what the left has to offer.  I'm speaking broadly, you seem to be getting more specific about Liberty vs Victory.  The Buttigieg bit that I quoted did not seem specific to the Victory event to me, but maybe I'm wrong *shrug*.  FWIW I have no problem with Sanders going to Liberty and agree with you wholeheartedly there.  I think it's consistent with what Pete is trying to do.  I'm also able to see the distinction that someone like you might draw between someone who is willing to *hear* Christians and someone who is using *his own* Christianity as part of his campaign.  I just don't think you were being consistent there.

[bad_teammate 13195]

26 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I don't know what the Victory Fund is.

I guess that's part of the problem you're having with understanding what I'm saying.

Quote

Pete is trying to reach Christians broadly in the strategy he's described ...

If that were true, he would be speaking to Christian audiences. He's not. He didn't even say this stuff when he was on FOX, which would've been speaking to a lot of evangelicals, but he didn't go after Pence's and Trump's faith there.

He's pandering to progressives, and it's working.

[Celery Man 20949]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

a) I guess that's part of the problem you're having with understanding what I'm saying.

b) If that were true, he would be speaking to Christian audiences. He's not. He didn't even say this stuff when he was on FOX, which would've been speaking to a lot of evangelicals, but he didn't go after Pence's and Trump's faith there.

He's pandering to progressives, and it's working.

a) my point was I don't know what it is, and yet here I am, paying attention

b) i bet he is? if your point is that he wasn't talking to a Christian audience right then, you are correct - we are talking about different things.

[henrygandorf 29191]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He's pandering to progressives, and it's working.

are you just talking about the victory speech, or who pete's been speaking to in general?  or appearing on tv?

do you think he's pandering about just the pence/religion point?

are you saying specifically that he's not speaking to the "evangelical" crowd (or fox news crowd)?  or that when he is, he conveniently leaves out the pence stuff?

i'm not arguing either side, but it does seem like you two are taking two different sides of two different arguments and it's hard to understand the point you're trying to make.

[bad_teammate 13195]

When Bernie went to Liberty, he was explicitly going to a hostile Christian audience to promote his message of economic fairness and to defend a woman's right to choose. His choice to go there was not good strategy either in terms of (1) making Hillary Dems happy (Dems were furious then and they're still furious, because they suck and are dumb losers) or (2) winning over Christians (as you can see, he was loud and forceful in his defense of abortion rights and did ZERO hemming and hawing, so while he made some fans there, it was only a few who were probably already sympathetic to him).

He went there because he actually believes that it is important to talk to everyone.

There's that side.

When Pete goes with personal-level attacks on Mike Pence's and Donald Trump's religious faith in front of The Victory Fund at a champagne brunch sounding like a character from the West Wing (complete with "SIR!" outrage), he is purposefully doing this in front of a supportive crowd that is going to be receptive to his message. And that's fine. Pumping up the base is very important and it's great strategy, especially when you've got some catching up to do and name recognition to build.

Celery came in here mocking me for criticizing Pete's move and celebrating Bernie's as if they were the same, or even similar. They are not. Not even close.