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Larry T. Spider

Larry T. Spider 1740

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I like some of Bernie’s ideas. Others go to far for me and 80% of the U.S. population. But none of that really matters. Getting rid of trump is the only mission at this point. I usually don’t think along these lines but he is the worst president ever and has the opportunity to shift the SCOTUS for generations to come (may happen this term). This isn’t about anything other than finding the perfect person to end this mess, and unfortunately Bernie isn’t that guy.

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Hank Scorpio
Hank Scorpio

When Bernie is president only the rich children will be put in cages. 

Johnny Sack
Johnny Sack

Watching you commie fucks lose this election is going to be enjoyable. 

Longhorn_Fan68
Longhorn_Fan68

it is really, really stupid that in the richest country in the world people are dying from lack of insulin. it's unconscionable, really.

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546

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He has to back track from his original statement.
That was just a quick search,  I've listened to him plenty.
He doesn't say all corporations and anyone associated with them are monsters. He makes distinctions amongst corporations and specifies the greed of corporate America is destroying America. I agree with that.
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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546

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More power to you if your a Bernie supporter.
However, your paranoia leads you to believe that anyone not with you is somehow a right-winger. Good luck!
???

People and candidates exist on a spectrum. I DO believe the Overton Window in this country has shifted too far right since the Reagan Revolution and even once Trump is gone, unless it strikes more of a balance between capitalism and socialism, the conditions that even allowed for a President Trump, will persist. But I agree with what Bernie stated in the link you provided- Clinton was far preferable to Trump. That's why I, like the overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters, voted for her.

However, I believe if you think JUST getting Trump out of office means America is outta the woods, and we can just go back business as usual, it's setting itself up for another disaster that will be even harder to extract itself out of.
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Dropout

Dropout 355

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On 7/13/2018 at 11:41 PM, cmontexas said:

Is Bernie totally clean on this Russia deal?

I’ll leave this here. Bernie has never backed Russia in any manner. My opinion is that Bernie would never knowingly work w anyone but the American people. I also believe Russia’s main objective was no Clinton. That in between will be made clear as Mueller wraps things up.

 

 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Keep giving up on good ideas because because??? For those wanting numbers for education. Cross post from Fozzz in shit thread... 

 

For some perspective, Bernie's free college plan is estimated to cost around $47 billion a year. 

 http://college.usatoday.com/2017/04/17/heres-how-much-bernie-sanders-free-college-for-all-plan-would-cost/

Meanwhile, the tax cut passed this year is projected to cost around $1.5 trillion in future revenue losses.  

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-sen-bernie-sanders-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-on-face-the-nation-july-22-2018/

 

Perfect storm is coming. Trump will hand Democrats the house and senate. Even better Bernie will capitilize and make sure a true progressive liberal or should I say democratic socialist becomes the POTUS. It won’t be that bad conservative Republicans of the past... I’ll try not to laugh as you cast your vote for Bernie.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Clinton's time passed when she lost to Obama.  Bernie's time passed when he lost to Clinton.

It's like soccer.  Bernie couldn't even get picked for a team (Dem) that didn't even make it to the World Cup.

Dems need someone who can pull the establishment while still getting the yutes excited.  Tough task, but that isn't Bernie.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Part of the reason I like Warren is she keeps getting grouped into the Bernie wing of the democrats.  People forget or don’t know she used to be a Republican.  A good strategy for her is to capture the Bernie base, energize the party, and move closer to the center as the campaign goes on.

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Dropout

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Bernie will never pull the establishment. The establishment will fight til the end. They are still trying to shoot the party in the foot.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/sanders-wing-party-terrifies-moderate-dems-here-s-how-they-n893381

Still owned by the big money Bernie harps on. They are not for the people. It’s why they lost to fucking Donald Trump. The writing is on the wall. A big neon sign perhaps. 

Bernie will mobilize the population again. Eyes will be watching the DNC for corrupt horse shit this time around. A fair fight and Sanders will win. Smooth sailing to POTUS.

Warren gets grouped bc used to be R has no bearing on what she is now. She is a progressive liberal who works along side Bernie more than any other politician. She may seek the nomination. I’d have no problem casting a vote for Warren. Just worried her path to the presidency would prove a little more difficult than Bernie’s. Alas I’ve said it numerous times. Sanders Warren 2020.

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Dropout

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/25/sen-bernie-sanders-progressives-aim-end-money-bail-system/837965002/

Sanders' bill, introduced without co-sponsors, would end the use of secured bonds in federal court proceedings, provide grants to states that decide to implement alternate pretrial systems and withhold grants from states that use money-bail systems. Rep. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., introduced a companion bill in the House.

https://www.theroot.com/bernie-sanders-takes-on-unjust-cash-bail-system-but-st-1827886869

“In the mist of a broken criminal justice system, what is totally insane is that you’ve got around 400,000 people—perhaps 20 percent of people in jail today—in jail for the crime of being poor. That’s their crime,” Sanders told The Root. “We should not in the year of 2018 be locking up hundreds of thousands of people who have been convicted of nothing.”

 

The last article is still critical of Bernie for “not raising his IQ on institutional racism up to his well-developed understanding of economics.” As a Hispanic minority this is simply something I don’t agree with. He’s one of the few staying focused on the issues that plague this country even during this circus. He acknowledges the prison systems racial disparities over and over again. Not to mention you have photos of a young Bernie being arrested for fighting segregation. It’s in his blood.

 

But where’s money going to come from to pay for crazy Bernie’s ideas? Estimates 14 billion a year spent on individuals not convicted of a crime. That’s not including people convicted of bs crimes and bs sentences for things like cannabis possession which is also something Bernie has been advocating for long before it became cool. Not including other horseshit government spending discussed in this thread. While the middle class may be taxed some I can never understand that as the go to argument for Bernie’s plans. There are other revenue avenues to be explored first. Wake the fuck up. Will someone think of the poor taxed rich people tho!? 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Ah shit DeVos and her friends need a 5th yacht forgot my bad Betsy. I’m sure you and your friends can pay for it off the backs of the wrongly imprisoned. Let’s keep them there.

Maybe the immigrant kids kept in your empty Walmart’s can chip in too.

Edited by Dropout
Forgot the children... will someone think of the children??
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Orca of Peace

Orca of Peace 109

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how are Warren / Sanders inseparable?  I hope age isn't a killer point for Bernie as DT is also quite damn old.  There is no better human being than Bernie in the mix for 2020, a straight talking honest highly intelligent caring gentleman.  What's not to like? How is his platform any different from any other democrat?

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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People don’t know what to do with a politician that makes too much sense. He scares them even Donald the great who’s not even afraid of the FBI CIA or Russian gangsters ya see...

The boogeyman with grand plans of educating the youth of America helping the poor giving the population decent healthcare keeping people out of prison who have no business being there. Even the kids are terrified...

How will we ever survive!? Can we come up with the money?? Critical very important questions that should come before having basic decency ethics and morals... the horror. 

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Dropout

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32 Trillion for Sanders’ Medicare for all healthcare plan and that’s according to the Koch brothers... of course conservatives jumped all over the number. Too bad for them there is more to the story.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-plan-cost-save-money-2018-7

While the price tag for the federal government would increase significantly, decreased spending by other groups would actually lower the total amount of healthcare spending over the same 10-year period. At the same time, the model also assumes that 30 million more people would get access to healthcare, and many people would get more robust services.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/30/17631240/medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders-32-trillion-cost-voxcare

There is the rub. The federal government is going to spend a lot more money on health care, but the country is going to spend about the same.

When you consider a universal single-payer program would 1) cover every single American, eliminating uninsurance and 2) provide much more robust benefits, covering more services than get covered right now, then it starts to look like a good deal.

 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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All the while checking these out of control pharmaceutical companies. Maybe getting focused on actually creating real helpful medicines and forgetting about profit. Perhaps a population with adequate healthcare idk actually gets healthier over time. 

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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On 7/14/2018 at 1:30 PM, David Dennison said:

I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary.

I'm not voting for him again even if he does run.

Why is it that the Clinton rigging of votes against Bernie isn't more hyped on the national news feed, just as the Russian collusion with Trump...

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Kilgorehorn

Kilgorehorn 308

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7 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

Why is it that the Clinton rigging of votes against Bernie isn't more hyped on the national news feed, just as the Russian collusion with Trump...

 

 
 

One is interparty dirty tricks and the other is a foreign power meddling in our election.

Edited by Kilgorehorn
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Orca of Peace

Orca of Peace 109

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Is this a serious question? If so, Jesus H. Christ on a cracker.

the one below was something of substance

7 minutes ago, Kilgorehorn said:

One is interparty dirty tricks and the other is a foreign power meddling in our election.

true. Also media bias of Clinton News Network although I saw it on FOX a few times but then again Bernie is to the left of HRC so they didn't run with it too much.

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Skyline

Skyline 325

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50 minutes ago, Dropout said:

32 Trillion for Sanders’ Medicare for all healthcare plan and that’s according to the Koch brothers... of course conservatives jumped all over the number. Too bad for them there is more to the story.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all-plan-cost-save-money-2018-7

While the price tag for the federal government would increase significantly, decreased spending by other groups would actually lower the total amount of healthcare spending over the same 10-year period. At the same time, the model also assumes that 30 million more people would get access to healthcare, and many people would get more robust services.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/30/17631240/medicare-for-all-bernie-sanders-32-trillion-cost-voxcare

There is the rub. The federal government is going to spend a lot more money on health care, but the country is going to spend about the same.

When you consider a universal single-payer program would 1) cover every single American, eliminating uninsurance and 2) provide much more robust benefits, covering more services than get covered right now, then it starts to look like a good deal.

 

If the decision is between paying a "premium" to an insurance provider as opposed to a "tax" to the govt what difference does it make if it's about the same? Especially if it reduces the amount we're paying nationally AND it increases the amount of people getting insurance. 

 

We would still need to worry about implementation of such a plan and any costs or delays that come with it. Adding the entire country into one healthcare system will take a lot of work and planning. 

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Dropout

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So itt the reasons for no Bernie are cost related and the need to see numbers. They have been provided for his most criticized plans. What’s the problem now?

The other is age... already discussed a bit but let’s talk about it since that seems to be a problem. I’ll start by it is fucking ridiculous to judge anyone by anything other than how well they can do the job. Any job. Race gender sexual orientation age etc. should not play any role in electing a president. Saying this man can’t get the job done due to his age is a lazy cop out. Especially when our current president is an old dumb fuck. Articles I read where Bernie can’t run because he’s old then list Biden as the top contender. They’re the same damn age. What in the actual fuck is going on here?

Anyone who’s being objective knows Bernie is the front runner to win the democratic nomination should or when he chooses to run. It’s strange to me that this thread is only on page 2. Well maybe not... I’ve never seen old white guys be so afraid of another old white guy like this. You’d think he was a young Ice Cube.

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Dropout

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4 minutes ago, Skyline said:

If the decision is between paying a "premium" to an insurance provider as opposed to a "tax" to the govt what difference does it make if it's about the same? Especially if it reduces the amount we're paying nationally AND it increases the amount of people getting insurance. 

 

We would still need to worry about implementation of such a plan and any costs or delays that come with it. Adding the entire country into one healthcare system will take a lot of work and planning. 

A lot of work and planning isn’t a reason to not do something. Not that you’re saying that. Momma always said anything worth doing or having will probably take a lot of work. Can throw planning in there no problem.

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Skyline

Skyline 325

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11 minutes ago, Dropout said:

A lot of work and planning isn’t a reason to not do something. Not that you’re saying that. Momma always said anything worth doing or having will probably take a lot of work. Can throw planning in there no problem.

I was more getting at what this guy is saying: 

If it's a better system in the short term (many millions being able to afford healthcare) and the long term (reducing costs) then I don't have issues with it. The logistics of the situation might require an increased cost in the beginning and I'd be fine with that. 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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10 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Because it didn't happen?

Give me a fucking break

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/

Clinton was anointed from the beginning. The money the establishment the machine was behind her. Bernie crashed the party and they had to take extraordinarily extreme measures to stop his push. This is fact.

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Js1

Js1 85110

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12 hours ago, Dropout said:

 

Give me a fucking break

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/

Clinton was anointed from the beginning. The money the establishment the machine was behind her. Bernie crashed the party and they had to take extraordinarily extreme measures to stop his push. This is fact.

Wait, you're telling me it is a BIG FUCKING DEAL (to quote Bro Biden) that the Democratic Party preferred an actual Democrat who spent years and years building up her credentials in and to the party, donating money, campaigning in midterms and serving under Obama as Secretary of State instead of a Senate backbencher who won't even join the actual party he wants to be elected under?

Also, internal party politics bro.  They can do whatever they want.  They could have cancelled all the primaries and caucuses and voice voted in Hillary as nominee at the DNC Convention and not a single U.S. judge would rule against their right to do that.

13 hours ago, kopp0e said:

Why is it that the Clinton rigging of votes against Bernie isn't more hyped on the national news feed, just as the Russian collusion with Trump...

Just askin' questions.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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I never said they couldn’t do what they want. They obviously did just that. If you don’t think a fair honest election in a primary should be a BIG FUCKING DEAL well I can’t win an argument with you on this matter so I won’t even try. And all the DNC and Democrats have done is prove Bernie right for holding out. You know things like fair elections and not working for money actually matter to him. Shocker in politics I know. The people should elect their leaders in this country. Not the letter by your name or how much money you bring in.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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Well, genius, there are open primaries in 23 States, 20 of which are completely open. So if Trump, who is only about himself and was a Democrat for most of his life, wanted to run as a Democrat then your theory where the DNC should have no control or input regarding their nominee says they would not be able to do anything whatsoever to stop him. MAGA morons could overrun the Democrat ballot boxes.

The point is that the Democratic Party is a private organization and they can do whatever the hell they want to select their nominee. If they wanted to do it in a secret room and then announce it at the convention they could and there wouldn't be a damn thing wrong with that. If Sanders wants to be treated on equal footing to other Democrat candidates then he should join the party and be a Democrat. Otherwise tough shit.

And in case this is too difficult for you to comprehend, if the GOP had been intelligent then they would have torpedoed Trump. But they're not, they didn't, and here we are.

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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Or maybe he was a democrat all his life and switched because he would never win anything as a democrat. I never said they weren’t a private organization or couldn’t rig their primary. Again they are and did just that.

Sanders is doing just fine with or without the D. He doesn’t need you equal footing. He needs the people. And he has them.

So again in case it’s too difficult for you to understand Trump isn’t and didn’t run as a democrat because he would lose bigly. He loves and prefers those unwilling to educate themselves or form an opinion on their own.

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Orca of Peace

Orca of Peace 109

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39 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Wait, you're telling me it is a BIG FUCKING DEAL (to quote Bro Biden) that the Democratic Party preferred an actual Democrat who spent years and years building up her credentials in and to the party, donating money, campaigning in midterms and serving under Obama as Secretary of State instead of a Senate backbencher who won't even join the actual party he wants to be elected under?

Also, internal party politics bro.  They can do whatever they want.  They could have cancelled all the primaries and caucuses and voice voted in Hillary as nominee at the DNC Convention and not a single U.S. judge would rule against their right to do that.

Just askin' questions.

2008, a rookie backbencher Illiniois Senator beat the more experienced people such as HRC, Chris Dodd, Joe Biden and Bill Richardson. What was his name, anyone remember? 

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Dropout

Dropout 355

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What platform or issues does Trump run on that are remotely Democratic? Is this your best argument? Sanders pulls part half or most of the Democratic Party because he’s actually a liberal progressive.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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3 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Or maybe he was a democrat all his life and switched because he would never win anything as a democrat. I never said they weren’t a private organization or couldn’t rig their primary. Again they are and did just that.

Sanders is doing just fine with or without the D. He doesn’t need you equal footing. He needs the people. And he has them.

So again in case it’s too difficult for you to understand Trump isn’t and didn’t run as a democrat because he would lose bigly. He loves and prefers those unwilling to educate themselves or form an opinion on their own.

So you understand why it's important that a party maintains control over their nomination process, you recognize that it's okay to do that, you acknowledge that Sanders would get a fairer shake if he were a member of the party, and you're still complaining about...what exactly?

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