Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[Message Board User 12,395]

27 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I always knew Bernie was a closet capitalist.  You can tell by all the beach houses.  

I bet he drives a Land Rover.

[David Dennison 18,860]

59 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Hmmm.... 

That's bad.

[Biff Tannen 45,691]

I have to think that B_T is the source of a lot of the Bernie snide on this thread.  I would vote for Bernie in a heartbeat.  He's not my favorite, but I still would.  B_T, you aren't helping your cause man.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Eh. $36k/year is over $17/hour. They (the "disgruntled" employees) are taking some pretty big logical leaps by taking a full time salaried job, extrapolating it to an hourly rate, then saying "we're working 60 hours a week, so it's actually less than $15/hour". 

And this is for a job that is basically a labor of love (or a stepping stone, internship type job to a high-paying political career).

No problem with them trying to get a raise but I don't see any issue with this from the campaign side of things. $36k with benefits isn't a bad chunk of change for an entry level job. This is another article where the headline is way too strong for what's actually happening. But that's basically news these days.

The irony, though, is solid.

Edited July 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[Dropout 355]

You’re consistent WaPo I’ll give you that. Bezos playing gotcha w Bernie Sanders. Pretty stupid for a smart guy. I know who my money is on.

Good thing they’re unionized. Bernie getting beat up is a stretch. They’re off what 4k on the salary and covering 100% the healthcare costs those making under 60k as opposed to 45k? When this is inevitably fixed and campaign workers are happy please critics come back and commend Bernie w the same eagerness. Or disappointedly disappear. I think I know where my money is on that one too.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

At least Bernie’s campaign staff doesn’t have a sexual harassment problem anymore. 

Seriously though, this isn’t going to move the needle but it is funny.  

Bernie’s not my top choice but I’d still vote for him over most of the field, including Biden.

[Dropout 355]

After thinking about this a bit it’satrap.gif 

Other campaigns will be forced to look in the mirror and as usual simply won’t or can’t measure up.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

Labor unions negotiating with management?!!? IN MY AMERICA!?

-----------------------------
Field organizers, who are on the front lines of the campaign’s crucial voter contact efforts, were to be paid not by hours worked but via an annual salary set at $36,000. Regional field directors were to be paid $48,000 annually, and statewide department directors were allocated $90,000 per year.

It was not completely clear why the wage dispute began so swiftly after the campaign and the union reached the initial agreement, though at that point the campaign had yet to assemble its sprawling roster of field organizers. But on May 17, Shakir convened an all-staff meeting, during which he recommended raising the pay for field organizers to $42,000 and changing the workweek specifications, according to an email he later wrote to staff. The union draft indicated he was seeking to extend the workweek to six days.

Shakir pressed for a swift vote so he could make budget decisions and decide how many field organizers to hire, according to his email.

The union rejected his offer, because the raise would have elevated field staff to a pay level responsible for paying more of their own health-care costs, according to the draft proposal the union was preparing this week.
-----------------------------

1 hour ago, Dropout said:

After thinking about this a bit it’satrap.gif 

Other campaigns will be forced to look in the mirror and as usual simply won’t or can’t measure up.

Which campaign could, in good faith and honesty, go after Bernie for having the gall to embrace labor union organization in his campaign and then engage in normal negotiations with that union?

[Dropout 355]

31 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Which campaign could, in good faith and honesty, go after Bernie for having the gall to embrace labor union organization in his campaign and then engage in normal negotiations with that union?

But did you read the headline tho!?

[bad_teammate 13,196]

The professional media class thinks all other workers are very happy because they smile while handing out the morning Starbucks.

The union agreed to a contract in May for $36k for a field organizer. In the meantime, multiple campaigns have taken off and competition is now higher for experienced organizers. Joe is out there spending like a madman. Delaney is spending a ton of money (though I have no idea what it is on). Pete is ramping up...

So if the going rate for field organizers goes up past what the Bernie worker union contract says... guess what?

Workers are going to call for competitive wages. And management will say, "OK, but we made these plans months ago to do X, Y, and Z and you agreed." And the workers respond. And management responds. And on and on until an agreement is reached.

THIS IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF LABOR UNIONS.

Centrists hate democracy. They see the hoi polloi talking and it chills them to their bones.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

he controls the means of production?

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

Negotiate? Wouldn't it just be easier for Bernie to pay them a living wage?

[tantric superman 4,667]

13 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Eh. $36k/year is over $17/hour.

If they are making a salary and they work, say, 50 hours a week they are getting $13.31. 

That's the problem with being a relatively low level exempt employee.  You are going to find very few who work 40 hours a week.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

Negotiate? Wouldn't it just be easier for Bernie to pay them a living wage?

Field organizers make $36k/yr and get healthcare.

I wonder why WaPo goes so hard after Bernie. Could it be him constantly shitting on Bezos and Amazon?

[henrygandorf 29,191]

maybe i'm being naive, but these recent stories don't seem like "attacks" as much as they seem like unintentional softballs that help highlight who bernie is.

 

headline: omg bernie is taking pharma money!

result: a few execs contributed, and once we found out about it, we're returning the money and standing by our pledge.

headline: omg bernie's own staffers are revolting and using his own rhetoric against him!

result: our staffers make a good wage including healthcare, which is better than most low level staffers on other campaigns, and we're happy to listen and negotiate.

 

both of these seem to create stories that are net positive for bernie in a time in between debates when it's tough to generate "positive" stories.  even on this board, i think any pokes bernie is getting are a little tongue-in-cheek.

[tantric superman 4,667]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Workers are going to call for competitive wages. And management will say, "OK, but we made these plans months ago to do X, Y, and Z and you agreed." And the workers respond. And management responds. And on and on until an agreement is reached. 

THIS IS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF LABOR UNIONS. 

Well, I would say Bernie might be in a bind because of his public comments about the minimum wage , but in every other situation where there is a signed collective bargaining unit, the company isn't going to renegotiate until the contract expires and they are working on a new one.  Both sides sing an agreement to lock in wages for the duration of the CBA.

[Js1 85,348]

3 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i think any pokes bernie is getting are a little tongue-in-cheek.

A lot of it is just giving b_t a hard time because of his Bernie passion.  He's the quickest to criticize another candidate for the littlest XYZ.  It's all good natured because you best believe I'm voting for Bernie if he's the nominee.  

[bad_teammate 13,196]

If they are making a salary and they work, say, 50 hours a week they are getting $13.31. 
That's the problem with being a relatively low level exempt employee.  You are going to find very few who work 40 hours a week.

Yep.

Management wants as much labor as possible for the dollar. Workers want as many dollars as possible for the labor.

It's one thing to see right-wing hostility to the collective bargaining process, but seeing it from the center and Dems in the context of near-literal Nazi rallies really drives home how unmoored we are overall.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

8 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

If they are making a salary and they work, say, 50 hours a week they are getting $13.31. 

That's the problem with being a relatively low level exempt employee.  You are going to find very few who work 40 hours a week.

i have this conversation with the wife all the time.  she works in fashion, and has risen through the ranks pretty quickly for someone her age.  but every now and then, during a 50-60 hour week (typically because of events and award shows and dressing celebrities - stuff most people would be super stoked to work on), she'll start crunching numbers and compare herself to some stylist's assistant working hourly.

"hey did you realize i'm only making blah blah per hour when you do the math, and that idiot melanie who holds a clipboard is making $30 an hour?!?"  meanwhile, she neglects to mention melanie has zero benefits, next to no job security, and only works events, which caps her at about 15-20 hours per week.  grass is always greener, and so forth.

this town is full of overworked/underpaid people in "cool" or "fun" industries where you need to build your resume (tv, movies, fashion, etc) and politics is no different.  i imagine working on a national campaign is pretty handy when you're looking for work on a senate/congressional campaign in '22.

[tantric superman 4,667]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

both of these seem to create stories that are net positive for bernie in a time in between debates when it's tough to generate "positive" stories.  even on this board, i think any pokes bernie is getting are a little tongue-in-cheek.

I don't know.  At first blush to me it highlights how actual reality -- you know, paying people without them getting pissed off - has always been something that people suspect that Bernie isn't really dealing with.

The only real critique of Bernie is that his policies might not be realistic.  He seems like a good guy and a guy who will do his best.

To me this kind of stuff is targeted at him because he's one of those guys who people are going to paint as not being able to deal with reality.

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by tantric superman

[henrygandorf 29,191]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

A lot of it is just giving b_t a hard time because of his Bernie passion.  He's the quickest to criticize another candidate for the littlest XYZ.  It's all good natured because you best believe I'm voting for Bernie if he's the nominee.  

right, and it's well deserved.

most here really like bernie.  i don't think i've ever said anything negative about him other than "i don't think he's going to win the nomination."

[bad_teammate 13,196]

both of these seem to create stories that are net positive for bernie in a time in between debates when it's tough to generate "positive" stories.

This is 4d chess logic.

Negative headlines are never good for candidates. And Bernie gets a ton of them.

And it's not hard to generate positives if that's the goal. Bernie's rally to save the hospital from an investment speculator is like the plot of a "save the rec center!" 80s movie.

The media doesn't owe Bernie positive coverage, but they aren't owed anything either. I won't pretend the jackals aren't jackals.

[tantric superman 4,667]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i have this conversation with the wife all the time.  she works in fashion, and has risen through the ranks pretty quickly for someone her age.  but every now and then, during a 50-60 hour week (typically because of events and award shows and dressing celebrities - stuff most people would be super stoked to work on), she'll start crunching numbers and compare herself to some stylist's assistant working hourly.

"hey did you realize i'm only making blah blah per hour when you do the math, and that idiot melanie who holds a clipboard is making $30 an hour?!?"  meanwhile, she neglects to mention melanie has zero benefits, next to no job security, and only works events, which caps her at about 15-20 hours per week.  grass is always greener, and so forth.

this town is full of overworked/underpaid people in "cool" or "fun" industries where you need to build your resume (tv, movies, fashion, etc) and politics is no different.  i imagine working on a national campaign is pretty handy when you're looking for work on a senate/congressional campaign in '22.

Pics of Melanie?  (Maybe holding a clipboard, looking stern and dominant?)

[henrygandorf 29,191]

17 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

If they are making a salary and they work, say, 50 hours a week they are getting $13.31. 

That's the problem with being a relatively low level exempt employee.  You are going to find very few who work 40 hours a week.

the other issue with salaried/hourly employees (putting aside benefits) is that you're trusting salaried employees to take on more responsibility, often supervise low-level staffers, and to be accountable.  if they really started bitching about the math, i would imagine the higher-ups would just tell them to work their 40 then go back to their shitty motel room.  that doesn't serve the campaign or the employee, unfortunately.  but you can't have it both ways.

i remember when i was back running tours, i had a "day rate".  and since it was gig stuff, it was proportionally higher than if i was salaried.  once i came on as a salaried employee, things changed.  nights, weekends, it was all baked into the salary.  along with benefits and job security.  if i ever said, "well if i'm working the weekend so i'll need my old day rate x2", the most they would hit back with was "how bout comp days".  i think when i finally left i had 3-4 months of comp days.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

I would think it hard to make a go of it on 36k per year in any sort of desirable city. 

My biggest criticism of Bernie is that he would be 79 years old on inauguration day. 

 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,400]

-DP-

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Field organizers make $36k/yr and get healthcare.

I wonder why WaPo goes so hard after Bernie. Could it be him constantly shitting on Bezos and Amazon?

Maybe because Bernie has been the loudest harshest voice on these issues so when it appears he isn’t walking the walk........

The media loves nothing more than a gotcha “You don’t practice what you preach” story.

I imagine if Elizabeth Warren was found to be cozying up to bank executives we would see the same kind of stories.

Bernie isn’t that special, any candidate appearing to be a hypocrite on one of their biggest soapboxes will get written about.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

1 minute ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I would think it hard to make a go of it on 36k per year in any sort of desirable city. 

good thing they're making it work in iowa and new hampshire.

and i would assume getting certain things paid for by the campaign.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

most here really like bernie.

lol in the shag vote thread he had 2 points. Don't gaslight, bud.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

This is 4d chess logic.

Negative headlines are never good for candidates. And Bernie gets a ton of them.

And it's not hard to generate positives if that's the goal. Bernie's rally to save the hospital from an investment speculator is like the plot of a "save the rec center!" 80s movie.

The media doesn't owe Bernie positive coverage, but they aren't owed anything either. I won't pretend the jackals aren't jackals.
 

 

i said unintentional.  i don't think this was planned/coordinated.  i just think in the end it's fine for bernie.  and i get that whining about "us against the world" is part of it, so i'll deal past it.

as a non-bro, neither of these stories paints him in a negative light in my eyes.  if anything, it shows that he's true to who he is.  highlighting that is never bad.

he'll win or lose as bernie.  kamala can't even figure out where she stands on healthcare yet.

[henrygandorf 29,191]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

lol in the shag vote thread he had 2 points. Don't gaslight, bud.

 

i didn't say he's most people's preferred candidate.  but i don't think anyone here has much to say about him in a negative way.  i'm sure you feel that way, because, come on.

i would venture to guess that you've said 10x as much bad shit about other candidates than you can find total from others about bernie.  the mentality is rubbing off on you, friendo.

[Hank Kingsley 20,955]

52 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I wonder why WaPo goes so hard after Bernie. Could it be him constantly shitting on Bezos and Amazon?
 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

I mean, I don’t like him so I won’t vote for him but just because other people don’t want to vote for him doesn’t mean they hate him.

I like most of the other candidates just fine but they aren’t in my top three.

The persecution complex you have about Bernie while simultaneously being the biggest bomb thrower on this board in regards to every other Democrat is really something.

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

the other issue with salaried/hourly employees (putting aside benefits) is that you're trusting salaried employees to take on more responsibility, often supervise low-level staffers, and to be accountable.  if they really started bitching about the math, i would imagine the higher-ups would just tell them to work their 40 then go back to their shitty motel room.  that doesn't serve the campaign or the employee, unfortunately.  but you can't have it both ways.

i remember when i was back running tours, i had a "day rate".  and since it was gig stuff, it was proportionally higher than if i was salaried.  once i came on as a salaried employee, things changed.  nights, weekends, it was all baked into the salary.  along with benefits and job security.  if i ever said, "well if i'm working the weekend so i'll need my old day rate x2", the most they would hit back with was "how bout comp days".  i think when i finally left i had 3-4 months of comp days.

 

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

If they are making a salary and they work, say, 50 hours a week they are getting $13.31. 

That's the problem with being a relatively low level exempt employee.  You are going to find very few who work 40 hours a week.

Yeah - I mean I understand that, but I'm not sure I buy it. I'm a bit on the fence on this one. If you take a full-time exempt job and you work 50 instead of 40, that extra 10 hours isn't really taking any money out of your pocket. I suppose you could get a second part time job or drive Uber or whatever but most people aren't doing that. It's taking time, sure, but the $15/hour argument is more one about a living wage than the money value of time. I just think taking a really gray-area compensation issue for a labor-of-love, non-profit, almost internship type of entry level job is stretching things a bit. Which from an employee/employer perspective I'm totally on board with. Always get yours - always. Use whatever you can. I don't begrudge them at all for that. They should, and they'd be stupid not to. But this should have stayed between the employees and the campaign and never been made public.

My issue is that this is more bullshit nonissue type stuff that the media and Twitter are pushing that are destructive to a potential candidate and could potentially hurt the chances of the nominee in the general. I hate it when it happens to other candidates that I like more than Bernie, but I still hate it when it happens to him. It really should be a nonissue. Let's instead focus on the fact that his healthcare plan takes money from the American people and puts it in the hands of corporations or whatever. Not this noise.

Edited July 19, 2019 by BradInATX

[RDCanecutter 26,446]

15 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I just read the whole article and it was really hard for me to contain my tears of mirth. 

The irony of Bernie getting beat up by his unionized campaign staff is really overwhelming.

It's a sign of love, like when an Irishman takes the piss out of somebody. That Irishman is polite to people he doesn't like.

The strident argument is the comfort zone. Go hang out at the local Artists' Collective, sip the box wine and listen for the ticking time-bomb of grievances to go off. You can get lots of sketching done waiting for it, then it's entertainment time.

[Hank Scorpio 17,729]

21 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

It's a sign of love, like when an Irishman takes the piss out of somebody. That Irishman is polite to people he doesn't like.

The strident argument is the comfort zone. Go hang out at the local Artists' Collective, sip the box wine and listen for the ticking time-bomb of grievances to go off. You can get lots of sketching done waiting for it, then it's entertainment time.

I was just about to post the exact same thing. 

[tantric superman 4,667]

51 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

My issue is that this is more bullshit nonissue type stuff that the media and Twitter are pushing that are destructive to a potential candidate and could potentially hurt the chances of the nominee in the general. I hate it when it happens to other candidates that I like more than Bernie, but I still hate it when it happens to him. It really should be a nonissue. Let's instead focus on the fact that his healthcare plan takes money from the American people and puts it in the hands of corporations or whatever. Not this noise.

The media is going to guarantee, by playing into Trumps hand and escalating the importance of the Squad, that no Dem nominee is going to win the Presidency. 

This isn't going to matter in the long run.

Edited July 19, 2019 by tantric superman

[bad_teammate 13,196]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

The persecution complex you have about Bernie while simultaneously being the biggest bomb thrower on this board in regards to every other Democrat is really something.

What does the conversation here have to do with analysis of the media? Your conflation of these things makes no sense.

Reality: B_T is a full-on Bernie bro who loves Bernie. He is a prick towards candidates he considers inferior by attacking the different reasons he thinks those candidates are inferior.

Reality: The mainstream press, especially the extremely influential and powerful outlet owned by Jeff Bezos, is hostile to Bernie Sanders.

These two things do not negate each other.

If you want to make an argument that the media at large treats Bernie the same as the other candidates, that's fine, you can be delusional, but my posting here on this little forum has no relevance.

This article is a completely bullshit hitpiece. Bernie gets a lot of those thrown at him by powerful mainstream outlets like WaPo and NYT.

[BradInATX 9,208]

38 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

The media is going to guarantee, by playing into Trumps hand and escalating the importance of the Squad, that no Dem nominee is going to win the Presidency. 

This isn't going to matter in the long run.

Sadly I'm starting to think you're right.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

Emergen-C on the table b/c the kids are being overworked.

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,916]

3 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i didn't say he's most people's preferred candidate.  but i don't think anyone here has much to say about him in a negative way.  i'm sure you feel that way, because, come on.

i would venture to guess that you've said 10x as much bad shit about other candidates than you can find total from others about bernie.  the mentality is rubbing off on you, friendo.

This seems to be the perspective of most Democrats or left leaning persons.  They like him, they respect him, they even enjoy him in an angry old man way, but they gravitate towards other candidates for whatever reasons.  He instills a lot of forceful emotions but if he wasn't running for President, I think most have positive feelings about him.  I would even posit most folks who don't support him dislike Bernie Bros more than Bernie himself.

 

[bad_teammate 13,196]

Not a fan of her music and didn't really care about her until she said that, while a stripper, she would drug and rob johns in the VIP.

This is, of course, beautiful praxis and I love her for it.

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

bad bernie!  no!

 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

sidenote, something that would only really be humorous to me and b_t, if you follow that twitter thread ^^ about 5 posts down, someone mentions that the real best fictional portrayal of a president from clear and present danger, featuring the harrison ford:

"how dare you, sir!"

Edited July 19, 2019 by henrygandorf

[Js1 85,348]

I read the words Bernie Sanders, Raven-Symone, Martin Sheen and Model UN in the same sentence and my mind is kinda blown. 

[bad_teammate 13,196]

Bernie displays terrible signs of Decorum Poisoning sometime, and this just confirms it

[henrygandorf 29,191]

you seem fun to be around.

[bad_teammate 13,196]

The media establishment knows exactly what it's doing.

 

[EMAWesome 101]

6 hours ago, tantric superman said:

 

The only real critique of Bernie is that his policies might not be realistic. 

 

That's a bit like saying the theories put forth by the interviewees on Ancient Aliens might not be realistic.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Using those Walmart tactics.