Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

[Jive Turkey 12562]

Who didn’t see this coming from a mile away. It’s why Trump was pissed about House intel being briefed on Russians trying to help Trump. Trump and Russians wanted to cook up a theory that the Russians are helping Bernie. And Trumpkins will eat it up  

 

[Zonahorn 8079]

Off to Central park with you Jason Johnson

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

42 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Who didn’t see this coming from a mile away.

Hell yeah.

THANKS COMRADES

If y'all could get us all of Pete's e-mails, that would be great.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

25 minutes ago, Calihorn said:

Off to Central park with you Jason Johnson

 

I'm not sure who Jason Johnson even likes. He hates Buttigieg as well. 

 

[Zonahorn 8079]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I'm not sure who Jason Johnson even likes. He hates Buttigieg as well. 

 

I think he's a Warren supporter. Regardless, he's a jackass, and his comment reek of misogyny.

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Still can’t find a solid unbiased detailed evaluation of Bernie’s M4ALL program despite several google searches and various web site visits. There are a lot of high level summaries like from Rand, but nothing thorough. I must be missing it.

Yale/Lancet peer reviewed study.

In a nutshell - M4A will save 68,000 lives each year and would cost $450 billion less each year than the status quo.  Hope this helps.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/heres-that-medicare-for-all-study-bernie-sanders-keeps-bringing-up/ar-BB10ctVo

 

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

Just now, Calihorn said:

I think he's a Warren supporter. Regardless, he's a jackass, and his comment reek of misogyny.

Yes, he's basically a MSNBC version of a shitposter. 

[Anastasis 23375]

Just now, washparkhorn said:

Yale/Lancet peer reviewed study.

In a nutshell - M4A will save 68,000 lives each year and would cost $450 billion less each year than the status quo.  Hope this helps.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/heres-that-medicare-for-all-study-bernie-sanders-keeps-bringing-up/ar-BB10ctVo

 

This is not an unbiased detailed novel evaluation.  Its basically a description of an excel spreadsheet that allows the user to toggle the inputs, mixed in with a policy opinion piece, written by a Sander M4A advisor.  

[bad_teammate 13125]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is not an unbiased detailed novel evaluation.  Its basically a description of an excel spreadsheet that allows the user to toggle the inputs, mixed in with a policy opinion piece, written by a Sander M4A advisor.  

It's biased?

[washparkhorn 9931]

5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

This is not an unbiased detailed novel evaluation.  Its basically a description of an excel spreadsheet that allows the user to toggle the inputs, mixed in with a policy opinion piece, written by a Sander M4A advisor.  

Don't believe in science argument?  How does that play out in the long run. 

 

[Zonahorn 8079]

More from that episode, the very end where that lady says, "well he is kinda an oligarch"

[Anastasis 23375]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's biased?

 

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Don't believe in science argument?  How does that play out in the long run. 

 

I wrote up my assessment in the other thread.  This is not a serious piece of original academic research. It is useful for what it is, basically an excel spreadsheet with a nice user interface. But that won't stop the twitterverse nor the candidates themselves from referencing it.

  

On 2/16/2020 at 9:46 AM, Anastasis said:

I skimmed the article but spent more time with the appendix.

It’s not a novel analysis. It’s a piece describing the parameters and base case justifications of an online modeling tool. It tends toward a policy opinion piece in parts and lacks substantive discussion of limitations. The tool being described was conceived by an “informal” advisor to the Sanders campaign, also the lead author.

The tool is available at this link: http://shift.cidma.us

The tool appears to be useful for testing the impact of various parameters included. It does not appear to allow for adjustment of certain important factors and omits others. Looks like the authors hard coded ER and hospital service use reductions among currently insured, which is not a good assumption based on experience under ACA. They omit, for example, increased Rx service use by currently insured under m4a. I think that they underestimate the extent of increases in utilization overall, including the un and underinsured which are capped in the model. The base case estimates of increased fraud detection and pharmaceutical price negotiations are ambitious at best. I think that the anticipated overhead reductions used in the base model will not be fully realized. I can’t speak to the assumptions on provider and facility rate reductions, but suffice to say they take haircuts from current levels in the base model.

Its a useful tool even if I don’t think that the base case reductions are fully realized and that impacts to utilization are not fully captured. I don’t think that we see 13% reductions in NHE with full implementation of m4a. I’ll take the under on that one all day. 

 

[6th Street 6340]

1 hour ago, Jive Turkey said:

Who didn’t see this coming from a mile away. It’s why Trump was pissed about House intel being briefed on Russians trying to help Trump. Trump and Russians wanted to cook up a theory that the Russians are helping Bernie. And Trumpkins will eat it up  

 

In Soviet Russia, Bern feel you!

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

No one eats up Russian stuff more than the Democratic #Resisters. 

My god, Maddow is gonna do like a 2 hour special on this Bernie/Russia stuff, isn't she? Fuck me. 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I wrote up my assessment in the other thread.

Sure, but I'm just wondering about the additional accusation you brought up here of actual bias.

[bad_teammate 13125]

4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No one eats up Russian stuff more than the Democratic #Resisters. 

My god, Maddow is gonna do like a 2 hour special on this Bernie/Russia stuff, isn't she? Fuck me. 

It's real and true and awesome.

We're gonna get cheaper vodka and hot young wives (or mistresses if we're already married) from failed Eastern European states. This is Bernie's plan for dealing with the incel crisis.

He's visionary.

[Hank Kingsley 20635]

Russian mistresses? I'm listening...

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Russian mistresses? I'm listening...

You're not allowed to know the secret plan until you've donated $200 at least.

It's actually the longest and most detailed plan Bernie has. It's like a 400-page PDF.

[Anastasis 23375]

11 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Sure, but I'm just wondering about the additional accusation you brought up here of actual bias.

I was building off dbeasy's ask. I wouldn't call it an accusation, simply an acknowledgement that there exists potential bias.  The Yale professor, apparently affiliated the infectious disease modelling group at Yale (must be a slow time of the year for them, allowing them to focus on their pet health care policy and economics projects), was an informal advisor to Bernie on development of the M4A bill.  She has an interest in advocacy related to M4A. 

 

I do find particular humor in the WaPo article intro describing the Lancet publication as providing "empirical heft" to pro-M4A arguments.  Apparently empirical heft means something very different to them than it does to me. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Anastasis

[washparkhorn 9931]

Ana or dbeasty - I would enjoy seeing any competing studies. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

Russian interference probably has the same goal in 2020 that it did in 2016: make sure that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are the only choices that we get. Why? Because in that scenario Vladimir Putin can't lose.
 

[washparkhorn 9931]

7 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Russian interference probably has the same goal in 2020 that it did in 2016: make sure that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are the only choices that we get. Why? Because in that scenario Vladimir Putin can't lose.
 

Bullshit.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Why is a Bernie Sanders primary victory better than a Warren or Buttigieg or Biden victory from Putin's perspective?

 

[ClubWhatever 12085]

15 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why is a Bernie Sanders primary victory better than a Warren or Buttigieg or Biden victory from Putin's perspective?

 

He thinks Bernie can’t beat Trump but even he did Russia would still have free rein to do whatever it wants in the former republics and Middle East.  He sees Bernie winning as a no lose scenario.  

Edited February 22, 2020 by ClubWhatever

[bad_teammate 13125]

That doesn't actually answer anything.

Why would Putin be more free to "still have free rein to do whatever it wants in the former republics and Middle East" than he would under the presidencies of any of the other Dem candidates?

This Russia stuff... man... it's just so shallow.

[triplehorn 2664]

Sanders really has to get out in front of this aggressive Bernie Bro follower stereotype and squash any ambiguity about this NOT being acceptable.  He's offered some tepid denunciations, but absent a repeated, sustained, definitive stance against this, it WILL become a real liability. 

This is a perfect set up for false flag vandalism and other misattributed delinquent acts that will use the language and catch words of 'socialism.'  It's the kind of shit that is right up Trump and Putin's alley.

[troph 24547]

That doesn't actually answer anything.
Why would Putin be more free to "still have free rein to do whatever it wants in the former republics and Middle East" than he would under the presidencies of any of the other Dem candidates?
This Russia stuff... man... it's just so shallow.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say Bernie will be different on foreign policy then ask how will it be different than any other candidate.

Look, Bernie’s position may be the correct one, but it’s a different one than everyone else and more like Ron Paul. End the wars, step back and focus on diplomacy and restore congressional power to declare war/authorize military intervention.

If you don’t think that benefits Putin in a way that could allow him to have free reign as compared to his reign under Obama or Bush then you aren’t being genuine in your arguments.

If the Pubs stay in power in the Senate then you have a serious double check on executive power when the president voluntarily defers.

That might be the right decision for our country but it so is a very good outcome for those that want to oppose our interests globally.

[Biff Tannen 45477]

5 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Sanders really has to get out in front of this aggressive Bernie Bro follower stereotype and squash any ambiguity about this NOT being acceptable.  He's offered some tepid denunciations, but absent a repeated, sustained, definitive stance against this, it WILL become a real liability. 

This is a perfect set up for false flag vandalism and other misattributed delinquent acts that will use the language and catch words of 'socialism.'  It's the kind of shit that is right up Trump and Putin's alley.

I fear this will fall on deaf ears, especially from the Bros on this board.

[troph 24547]

The other thing is who says Russia really wants sanders? They want division and trump. Someone believes Bernie delivers one or both. Many of us already know some of his followers deliver the first.

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm the furthest thing from a Bernie bro but my first reaction to that Tweet with the "vandalism" is that I wonder how much the Bloomberg campaign is paying Jesse Smollett to work for them

Edited February 22, 2020 by BradInATX

[GSU&UT 1798]

The one thing Bernie would fucking do is end the CIA from tampering in so many damned countries' regimes and elections and that is a net win for the world. To sit her and worry about Russia because we aren't going to maintain a constant presence in the middle east for the next several generations is gross and completely glosses over the insane amount of death and destruction we've completely led.

[GSU&UT 1798]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I'm the furthest thing from a Bernie bro but my first reaction to that Tweet is that I wonder how much the Bloomberg campaign is paying Jesse Smollett to work for them

There is literally no evidence this was Bernie either, it's not like fucking Warren didn't slam him 10x as much as Bernie did. Why on earth couldn't these vandals be supportive of her?

Posting on Twitter and contributing to a ratio isn't harassment and some of you need to grow thicker skin. I've seen some of the nastiest shit posted as attacks over Texas football games between Shaggy and Surly and somehow we aren't banning people left and right of anger.

[Dropout 355]

4 hours ago, Jive Turkey said:

Who didn’t see this coming from a mile away. It’s why Trump was pissed about House intel being briefed on Russians trying to help Trump. Trump and Russians wanted to cook up a theory that the Russians are helping Bernie. And Trumpkins will eat it up  

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/hidden-author-putinism-russia-vladislav-surkov/382489/

The brilliance of this new type of authoritarianism is that instead of simply oppressing opposition, as had been the case with 20th-century strains, it climbs inside all ideologies and movements, exploiting and rendering them absurd. One moment Surkov would fund civic forums and human-rights NGOs, the next he would quietly support nationalist movements that accuse the NGOs of being tools of the West. With a flourish he sponsored lavish arts festivals for the most provocative modern artists in Moscow, then supported Orthodox fundamentalists, dressed all in black and carrying crosses, who in turn attacked the modern-art exhibitions. The Kremlin’s idea is to own all forms of political discourse, to not let any independent movements develop outside of its walls. Its Moscow can feel like an oligarchy in the morning and a democracy in the afternoon, a monarchy for dinner and a totalitarian state by bedtime.

[bad_teammate 13125]

12 minutes ago, troph said:

Look, Bernie’s position may be the correct one, but it’s a different one than everyone else and more like Ron Paul. End the wars, step back and focus on diplomacy and restore congressional power to declare war/authorize military intervention.

 

I think every single Democratic candidate would be extremely offended if you told them that wasn't their plan.

[GSU&UT 1798]

Hell freaking yes, getting the Marry Poppins, DVD show, Diagnosis Murder vote

 

[Dropout 355]

Look idk who this old fuck is but maybe some of you old fucks who are struggling with these circumstances do. Thanks Dick.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Dropout
GSU wins

[troph 24547]

I think every single Democratic candidate would be extremely offended if you told them that wasn't their plan.

Evasive.

[Hank Scorpio 17711]

It still amazes me that the Russia stuff just liquifies so many people’s brains. Everything is a Russian plot and Putin is a genius puppet master who controls everything and anything I don’t understand is actually an elaborate conspiracy orchestrated by the Kremlin where the KGB is meeting in a dimly lit smoky room editing Facebook posts and creating deep fakes to destroy our country.
 

It’s definitely not a bunch of idiot Russian and Eastern European teenagers with fetal alcohol syndrome sitting in a server farm making stupid fucking memes. And the only people stupider than them are the Americans who believe the shit they put out. 

[GSU&UT 1798]

I mean I definitely believe that Russia wants to help split the Democratic party in the general chaotic sense by pushing the candidate who isn't aligned with the current party structure. I don't think anyone on Surly is suggesting this, but I have seen a bunch of dipshits acting as if Bernie is going to be somehow a puppet for Russia though because he supposedly honeymooned there when Burlington and Yaroslavl, Russia were sister cities.

[bad_teammate 13125]

17 minutes ago, troph said:

Evasive.

Name a Democratic candidate that doesn't want to bring the troops home, focus on diplomacy, and put the war powers back in Congress's hands.

[troph 24547]

Name a Democratic candidate that doesn't want to bring the troops home, focus on diplomacy, and put the war powers back in Congress's hands.

Pete won’t give up executive power, neither will Klobachar. Biden? Are you kidding me? Obama took executive power to another level escalating what Bush started. Warren is the closest and Sanders is the only one you can count on exercising restraint and fully giving power back to congress. And you know this.

 

And that would be good for the world generally but in a world of despots that return to congressional authorization required will leave a vacuum. Putin will fill it.

 

And that’s why he’d be fine with Sanders. But what he really wants is division and Trump. They think Sanders v Trump could deliver both.

 

No I don’t think for a minute Sanders would be a Putin puppet. That’s a silly notion.

[troph 24547]

Name a Democratic candidate that doesn't want to bring the troops home, focus on diplomacy, and put the war powers back in Congress's hands.

I forgot your red herring. You’re right. Bloomy and Bernie are foreign policy mirrors of each other. Roll my eyes emoji, insert it right here.

[bad_teammate 13125]

I'm not trying to discount your interpretation of their sincerity, but all of them would say it was their intention to get out of Afghanistan, focus on diplomacy, and put the war powers back in Congress's hands.

That was, after all, what they all said at the September debate.

[troph 24547]

I'm not trying to discount your interpretation of their sincerity, but all of them would say it was their intention to get out of Afghanistan, focus on diplomacy, and put the war powers back in Congress's hands.

That was, after all, what they all said at the September debate.

I don’t care what they said. Candidates say crap like that. Obama was gonna close gitmo, bush believed in compassionate conservatism with humble foreign policy, and the list goes on. The fact is no candidate runs on expanding the power of the executive but it’s been happening since after Nixon. You really believe them though so I’ll give you that.

[bad_teammate 13125]

I never said they would do those things, I merely claimed that they would be offended if you said they didn't. And also that they want to do those things, just like Obama wanted to be better than he was.

I agree that Bernie is the best candidate, though, you and I are in agreement on that.

[bad_teammate 13125]

I demand an immediate apology from all candidates for their supporters' horrific violence and hatred. I know it was all of them combined because they all know what rocks are.

 

[GSU&UT 1798]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

I demand an immediate apology from all candidates for their supporters' horrific violence and hatred. I know it was all of them combined because they all know what rocks are.

 

@triplehorn @Biff Tannen going to need y'all to get people to condemn this wretched attack on front-runner here.

[troph 24547]

I never said they would do those things, I merely claimed that they would be offended if you said they didn't. And also that they want to do those things, just like Obama wanted to be better than he was.
I agree that Bernie is the best candidate, though, you and I are in agreement on that.

You’re a tool. A complete utter tool. Politics isn’t a sport. You argue, twist, bitch, berate, rant, and more and then want us to see you as a true believer preaching the pure gospel. You are the worst poster on this politics board right now. THE WORST.

[GSU&UT 1798]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

 

You’re a tool. A complete utter tool. Politics isn’t a sport. You argue, twist, bitch, berate, rant, and more and then want us to see you as a true believer preaching the pure gospel. You are the worst poster on this politics board right now. THE WORST.

 

What exactly is your complaint? Bernie is somehow correct with his position to wind down our war mongering foreign policy and that is actually going to benefit Russia and therefore he is not the best candidate?

[bad_teammate 13125]

You’re a tool. A complete utter tool. Politics isn’t a sport. You argue, twist, bitch, berate, rant, and more and then want us to see you as a true believer preaching the pure gospel. You are the worst poster on this politics board right now. THE WORST.

Yeah, OK. Good.