Drugs win the War on Drugs

[Brisketexan 104628]

what does all this contempt do for you? do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, this idea that you are so much better than those who suffer? when you've reduced them to savages, what's next? shall we get rid of all of em?

What blows me away is how utterly shortsighted and SELF-harming it is.

Fatty bitches about his taxes being used on other people…but not a peep about it when they are used to arrest, try, and incarcerate people. Which is incredibly expensive. But if you offer the option of “or…we could deal with those problem people a different way, which would also be cheaper,” and the answer is “fuck those moochers.
He’d rather spend 30k punishing someone than 20k helping them, even if both paths get us to the same outcome (an addict who isn’t on the streets breaking into his car for money for drugs, etc). It baffles me. Why choose being mean when it’s not even cost-effective? Shouldn’t the driving goal be “solve the problem in the cheapest way?”

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Why choose being mean when it’s not even cost-effective?

Because for people who prioritize status-seeking as the ultimate life goal 1) Denying a reason to punish another diminishes status 2) Being wrong about something diminishes status

[Hate 20103]

16 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

what does all this contempt do for you? do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, this idea that you are so much better than those who suffer? when you've reduced them to savages, what's next? shall we get rid of all of em?

They should be forced to fight as gladiators for their next fix…for our amusement of course.

[Brisketexan 104628]

Follow up on my post above -- maybe it's a problem with how people frame both the problem and the solution in their head.  If they define the problem as "those dirty fucking addicts," then they "solution" is "get rid of them."  But if the problem is defined as the problems that FLOW from people being addicts (theft, bothering people on the street, filth, etc.)....then you also realize that the problem isn't PEOPLE, the problem is HOW THOSE PEOPLE BEHAVE.  Thus, your solution should be "how do we reduce these behaviors?"

One way is to murder them all.  Dead people don't misbehave.  But we have some basic moral codes and laws that say "nope, we can't do that."

Another way is to arrest, try, and incarcerate them all for life.  We've tried something like that.  It's SUPER expensive, and because we can't/don't incarcerate them for life, it also doesn't work very well.

Another way could be to treat the problem, so that they are less likely to misbehave in the future.  We eliminate the BEHAVIOR, not the human being.  E.g., the Portugese model.  Portugal is not some softy dirty liberal state.  It's approach isn't just praised by bleeding heart hippies -- The Economist has been a proponent for a long-ass time, and that's a long-time center-right publication.

Nothing is perfect, of course.  The people being dealt with are human, and the people dealing with them are human.  But there are cost-benefit calculations that go with each path that can make sense.

I think it all comes back to how you frame the problem, and Fatty....he's not doing so in any way that makes sense.  But humans are emotional animals, and that happens a lot.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What blows me away is how utterly shortsighted and SELF-harming it is.

Fatty bitches about his taxes being used on other people…but not a peep about it when they are used to arrest, try, and incarcerate people. Which is incredibly expensive. But if you offer the option of “or…we could deal with those problem people a different way, which would also be cheaper,” and the answer is “fuck those moochers.
He’d rather spend 30k punishing someone than 20k helping them, even if both paths get us to the same outcome (an addict who isn’t on the streets breaking into his car for money for drugs, etc). It baffles me. Why choose being mean when it’s not even cost-effective? Shouldn’t the driving goal be “solve the problem in the cheapest way?”

Elsewhere on the board, the N2 execution thread, I believe, I exposed my colon about a percolating theory that I have that Americans are uniquely willing and able to otherize/demonize other Americans.  I think perhaps it relates to the "American Dream."  For a bunch of Americans, the "Dream" is an endless source of existential frustration, for others, it becomes this sort of self-congratulatory thing that seems to make it easier to do things like pull up ladders, etc.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

In reading the SF vs. Portugal model, I can’t help but see a subtle difference in thinking:

- Portugal identified addiction and attendant social ills as a problem and concluded that incarceration did not help them address it.

- SF concluded that incarceration of addicts as a problem and believed getting rid of that would fix everything. 
 

Magical and moralistic thinking vs. pragmatism.  I cannot emphasize enough that politics in America boil down to theist and non-theist Puritans shouting at each other. 
 

I work in a city that’s not SF but it has basically said “tweak and camp where you want.” I walk by this bus stop every day that three homeless people totally occupied. Every inch is taken up by carts and junk. They are usually doped out and drooling. 
 

Now, I don’t have to take that bus but lots of people do. Most of them are minorities. 
Most of the people waiting are going to service and blue collar jobs, or maybe just trying to get somewhere else.  And they’re standing in the rain or heat or maybe snow waiting for the bus because the bus stop is occupied by people who don’t leave except to get more drugs or maybe shit on the sidewalk. 
 

I think about that a lot. Its easy to feel good about harm reduction and camp anywhere ordinances if you don’t take the bus to your job. 

[Js1 85114]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Elsewhere on the board, the N2 execution thread, I believe, I exposed my colon about a percolating theory that I have that Americans are uniquely willing and able to otherize/demonize other Americans.  I think perhaps it relates to the "American Dream."  For a bunch of Americans, the "Dream" is an endless source of existential frustration, for others, it becomes this sort of self-congratulatory thing that seems to make it easier to do things like pull up ladders, etc.

We live in a selfish society where, once successful, everyone below must be smushed under the boot of the successful people. We don’t lend a hand to lift up, we step on the neck to keep down 

[Celery Man 20886]

it’s a shortcut to self worth for people who lack character and goodness

[TwiceHorn 31283]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

These are true.

Which is why drug possession, use, and addiction shouldn't be treated as a criminal issue per se.  BUT, a chronic addict who will not get help, and continuously presents a hazard and commits crimes BECAUSE of their addiction?  Yeah, there's a place in the criminal justice system for that.  Probably not the place we have NOW (just treat em like every other criminal), but society has an interest in getting the chronic and stubborn addict out of the general public, and in a place where the public is protected from the hazards that person causes.

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I am all for avoiding criminality and incarceration at any turn, especially when there's an obvious connection to something like addiction, or post-military service PTSD or whatever.

And, I do believe that an active addict has little choice when it comes to continuing to abuse her drug of choice.  Still, the choice to accept help and enter recovery is there.  It's not an easy choice to make and not everyone has the resources to make it (AA is free, but you have to make it to meetings and be fed and of reasonably sound mind for it to work).

It's not realistic to expect a bunch of addicts to accept help on a purely voluntary basis first shot out of the box.  A lot aren't yet convinced they're addicts for one thing.  A lot are, but don't want to give up their drug/"lifestyle," that is the pain of consequences doesn't exceed the pain relief of addiction. Some coercion may help, like three strikes then criminal penalties kick in.  

But, as long as the "misbehavior" isn't any worse than with the jail model, even a small number who get clean and avoid criminal entanglement is a huge plus to me.

[Brisketexan 104628]

8 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

In reading the SF vs. Portugal model, I can’t help but see a subtle difference in thinking:

- Portugal identified addiction and attendant social ills as a problem and concluded that incarceration did not help them address it.

- SF concluded that incarceration of addicts as a problem and believed getting rid of that would fix everything. 
 

Magical and moralistic thinking vs. pragmatism.  I cannot emphasize enough that politics in America boil down to theist and non-theist Puritans shouting at each other. 
 

I work in a city that’s not SF but it has basically said “tweak and camp where you want.” I walk by this bus stop every day that three homeless people totally occupied. Every inch is taken up by carts and junk. They are usually doped out and drooling. 
 

Now, I don’t have to take that bus but lots of people do. Most of them are minorities. 
Most of the people waiting are going to service and blue collar jobs, or maybe just trying to get somewhere else.  And they’re standing in the rain or heat or maybe snow waiting for the bus because the bus stop is occupied by people who don’t leave except to get more drugs or maybe shit on the sidewalk. 
 

I think about that a lot. Its easy to feel good about harm reduction and camp anywhere ordinances if you don’t take the bus to your job. 

Horseshoe theory:  the extreme liberal/lefty approach of "let 'em tweak and camp all they want, wherever they want" is just as cruel to a large group of people as the extreme rightwing approach of "flog em or bury em under the jail if they ever do any sort of drugs."  Stupid compassion can be just as harmful as stupid cruelty.  

And they BOTH suffer from the fact that neither approach actually tries to address the problem.  E.g., if it's raining and I'm getting wet, the problem is NOT "it's raining."  The problem is "I'm getting wet."  If we define the problem as "it's raining," then we're going to end up frustrated and ragey, because we can't control that or fix it.  Ever.  But if we define it as "I'm getting wet," then we can address it by using an umbrella, or wearing a raincoat, or going inside a car or building.  It's still raining.  But I've reduced the harm.

Fatty and his types are over there raging about how stupid fucking rain is, and fuck rain, and fuck clouds, and fuck water, and we should nuke rainclouds.  They are willing to expend millions trying to punish rainclouds into not raining anymore.  And the only result will be...we spend a lotta money, and it's still raining.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We live in a selfish society where, once successful, everyone below must be smushed under the boot of the successful people. We don’t lend a hand to lift up, we step on the neck to keep down 

 

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Elsewhere on the board, the N2 execution thread, I believe, I exposed my colon about a percolating theory that I have that Americans are uniquely willing and able to otherize/demonize other Americans.  I think perhaps it relates to the "American Dream."  For a bunch of Americans, the "Dream" is an endless source of existential frustration, for others, it becomes this sort of self-congratulatory thing that seems to make it easier to do things like pull up ladders, etc.

Neither of these things is really true. We are by almost every metric among the most generous societies in the world at the individual level as measured by time and money given or any other thing you can use to measure this. 
 

We cannot come close to the demonizing or “otherizing” that goes on even in places you think of as tolerant and kind, let alone the parts of the world where blood feuds or ethnic hatred are a national pastime. 
 

What we do have is a politics that cannot escape its Puritan roots and a fiercely strong streak of individualism and suspicion of government. It makes our brains break when we try to leverage government to solve problems at home. 

[Js1 85114]

Well sorry I don’t believe you on that, chief 

[TwiceHorn 31283]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 

Neither of these things is really true. We are by almost every metric among the most generous societies in the world at the individual level as measured by time and money given or any other thing you can use to measure this. 
 

We cannot come close to the demonizing or “otherizing” that goes on even in places you think of as tolerant and kind, let alone the parts of the world where blood feuds or ethnic hatred are a national pastime. 
 

What we do have is a politics that cannot escape its Puritan roots and a fiercely strong streak of individualism and suspicion of government. It makes our brains break when we try to leverage government to solve problems at home. 

Maybe that's it.  Just seems like we're uniquely judgey or something.  And, of course, we have this melting pot with a lot of extra others to direct our judgment against.

My basis for this is not merely personal anecdote -- on a personal experientlal level, I tend to agree with your initial premise -- it's trying to understand the documented tendency of Americans not to trust their fellow citizens.

Edited February 1 by TwiceHorn

[956 Worldwide 34444]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Well sorry I don’t believe you on that, chief 

On which part? Here’s the charitable giving index, you can see where we rank (3, behind Indonesia and Kenya).

https://www.cafonline.org/docs/default-source/about-us-research/caf_world_giving_index_2022_210922-final.pdf 

[DixonHur 11228]

This kind of news pisses me off, because the anti-drug folks point and say, "see, I told you", but the truth is that a single city has zero chance to make it work by themselves.  

Decriminalization does nothing.  You need federal legalization and regulation.  Until drug addiction is treated as a medical problem instead of criminal one, shit's gonna be borked.

[crash_davis 23084]

56 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

what does all this contempt do for you? do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, this idea that you are so much better than those who suffer? when you've reduced them to savages, what's next? shall we get rid of all of em?

i can turn this around just as easily.

what does all this love for homeless people do for you. do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, the idea that you are so much better than those who don't embrace in every once of suffering of the homeless? when you put them on pedestals, what's next? shall we give them everything, in addition to all the shit that that they steal?

[4th&Five 41461]

[JohnnyRage 1617]

6 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

I was unaware that they decriminalized Fentanyl.

I was unaware.

https://www.wweek.com/news/state/2023/06/24/oregon-legislature-criminalizes-possession-of-fentanyl-undoing-a-small-part-of-measure-110/

 

Quote

Measure 110 aside, possession of small amounts of fentanyl, a prescription painkiller, dwells in an undefined area of Oregon law. Statute describes a felony for possession of 50 grams or more, but there is no misdemeanor charge, according to a staff summary of HB 2645.

“Oregon statute does not provide for a Class A misdemeanor charge for possession of fentanyl as it does for possession of similarly categorized controlled substances such as heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine,” the staff summary says. “Additionally, statutes criminalizing possession of fentanyl require proof of specific quantities defined by weight and cannot be established by possession of ‘pills, tablets, capsules or user units.’”

HB 2645 establishes a misdemeanor penalty for fentanyl and describes unit measurements for calculating offenses. The bill makes it a misdemeanor to possess 1 gram of “a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of fentanyl” or five “user units” of a drug that contains a detectable amount of fentanyl.

 

[fattyflattie 4636]

47 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What blows me away is how utterly shortsighted and SELF-harming it is.

Fatty bitches about his taxes being used on other people…but not a peep about it when they are used to arrest, try, and incarcerate people. Which is incredibly expensive. But if you offer the option of “or…we could deal with those problem people a different way, which would also be cheaper,” and the answer is “fuck those moochers.
He’d rather spend 30k punishing someone than 20k helping them, even if both paths get us to the same outcome (an addict who isn’t on the streets breaking into his car for money for drugs, etc). It baffles me. Why choose being mean when it’s not even cost-effective? Shouldn’t the driving goal be “solve the problem in the cheapest way?”

Yeah, 20k in help gets people clean all the time. What’s that, 15 days in a rehab?  One keeps them from stealing the cats out from under the family car for a decade.  What do you reckon the relapse rate is after a 15 day rehab stint vs 10 years in the clink?  I know which one provides me less chances of getting my shit stolen.  Like crash stated above, I’d rather them just have some personal responsibility. But since that’s waaaay too much to ask, how about just junk yourself out in a fucking alley and quit washing your asshole in the water fountain.  Do I need to post the vid of the junkie washing her ass in the water fountain?  

[staboner 4959]

[fattyflattie 4636]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

what does all this love for homeless people do for you.

Half the posters in this thread were addicts that beat their addictions.  Visit the AA thread. The other half are tired of the bullshit that comes along with addicts. 

[Celery Man 20886]

3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

i can turn this around just as easily.

what does all this love for homeless people do for you. do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, the idea that you are so much better than those who don't embrace in every once of suffering of the homeless? when you put them on pedestals, what's next? shall we give them everything, in addition to all the shit that that they steal?

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

When you indoctrinate a culture into a wealth-worshipping value system of "work super mega hard" as a starting point and slowly increase it from Dolly singing about working from 9 to 5 to Lumbergh telling you "yeeeaaah, we're going to need you to come in Saturday" to managers calling employees to come in to work when they're off, and when increasingly there are fewer and fewer options for sane people who want a work/life balance and a roof over their head- yeah. You're going to see people make understandable choices under duress that seem as insane as jumping off one of the Twin Towers in a country that uniquely amongst developed nations had a declining life expectancy (due in no small part to a critical mass of Americans choosing a short drug filled life over a long, hand-to-mouth slavish life) before the pandemic. 

All work leaves no time- and no play and no socializing and metastatic loneliness

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-teach-us-about-addiction

[956 Worldwide 34444]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Maybe that's it.  Just seems like we're uniquely judgey or something.  And, of course, we have this melting pot with a lot of extra others to direct our judgment against.

My basis for this is not merely personal anecdote -- on a personal experientlal level, I tend to agree with your initial premise -- it's trying to understand the documented tendency of Americans not to trust their fellow citizens.

There’s quite a bit of judginess. But I’d point out that when I say “we are bunch of puritans shouting at each other” and the other theory is “no, we are uniquely selfish and cruel and judging…..”

Well, my point about how we are all cultural Calvinists and that doesn’t lend well to pragmatic approaches to social policy lands a bit on the nose, right?  There’s no problems to be solved just sins to repent from and we are all just fighting about who needs to. 

[DDD Dad 14252]

Threads like these reveal how selfish and shitty some people are. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

9 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Threads like these reveal how selfish and shitty some people are. 

I know. Can you imagine shitting and bleeding and fucking all over sidewalks in polite society because you couldn’t keep your shit together?  So let’s stain every public spot we can with our existence.   Difficult to put into words that type of selfishness. 

[safe sex 11684]

It's not even Thirsty Thursday, slow down

[DDD Dad 14252]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

I know. Can you imagine shitting and bleeding and fucking all over sidewalks in polite society because you couldn’t keep your shit together?  So let’s stain every public spot we can with our existence.   Difficult to put into words that type of selfishness. 

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Can you imagine shitting and bleeding and fucking all over sidewalks in polite society because you couldn’t keep your shit together?

You will eventually be shitting and bleeding all over the place. I hope you think about this when you are. If circumstances and choices or any combo thereof, only one of which you have control over, were different for you, yes, the sidewalks would be one of those places, as it would for me. 

[pyrohornIII 4809]

4 hours ago, crash_davis said:

So it's our fault because they are homeless druggies? My sarcasm meter is broke.

Well for some of them, yeah it's our fault, as a collective country.  Many of those homeless druggies are veterans we gladly welcomed into the arms of our military to serve and protect our country.  There's a myriad of reasons these people end up with the short end of the stick, but it maddens me how as a country we ask people to serve, put them in difficult situations, then turn our backs on them once they leave active duty.  Our VA is magnificently underfunded while our defense contractors get fatter and richer.  Then you turn the television on and get hit with a Wounded Warrior commercial.    Excuse me, but isn't that the goverment's job to take care of these people?   

So yeah it is partly our fault, and one of the reasons many of us look upon the homeless and addicted with compassion, because maybe we (our country) put them in a vulnerable position and refuses to help them when the gamble went south.  

https://treatmentsolutions.com/treatment/rehab-guide/veterans/homeless-veterans/

[Welshy 907]

18 minutes ago, safe sex said:

It's not even Thirsty Thursday, slow down

Wet Wednesday?

[DDD Dad 14252]

4 minutes ago, Welshy said:

Wet Wednesday?

 

[Welshy 907]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

 

[Dnaguy 11777]

People use drugs as a solution to evolutionary programmed / societal needs that can't or aren't being appeased or addressed.

Human fragility, fallibility, and the fellowship we've created is a prime example of shit in = shit out.

Unless you fix thousands of years of human biology thereby opening up a possible whole other set of issues OR fix hundred of years of capitalistic liberal democracy, then you're only pissing on an ember while the house burns down.

 

Some of you guys sure know how to post some depressing ass topics.

Fuck, I'm out of gummies.

I'm going to get another beer.

[Covri 6231]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

What we do have is a politics that cannot escape its Puritan roots and a fiercely strong streak of individualism and suspicion of government. It makes our brains break when we try to leverage government to solve problems at home. 

This is bullshit and another attempt at justifying closet conservatives who can’t vote for the current Republican Party, but also want to pretend like we’re all the same to justify their shitty deep down views. Democrats, liberals, people, whatever don’t have a problem asking for help that’s available, just one side pretends they do (while accepting it) and demonizes the other side as moochers.
 

And they wrap up those views in religion for justification. Giving to your church that promotes hatred doesn’t make you generous, it makes you culpable.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

6 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Fuck, I'm out of gummies.

I can't do gummies. Because of my job. I need a cig. 

[Dnaguy 11777]

4 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I can't do gummies. Because of my job. I need a cig. 

Be a lot cooler if ya did.

Edited February 1 by Dnaguy

[Jhawkmvp 1489]

Average Americans and most politicians like simple solutions, but things like addiction, mental illness, and homelessness are complicated, intertwined, and require addressing many factors to reduce them to more acceptable levels.  I doubt our extremely divided political and economic climate will be able to address them anytime soon on anything greater than a very local scale (where you might be able to reach a political consensus), if at all.

I'm no expert, but off the top of my head, broadly to tackle homelessness since it was brought up. The main causes of being homelessness are the medical issues of addiction and mental illness and the economic issues of unemployment and high cost of housing.  That doesn't even get to the less common issues like abuse that leads to minors running away and being homeless and a myriad of lesser issues that play into homelessness. 

Having housing affordable for those working a minimum wage job is the easiest part to solve in theory; however, how do you do this? Rent control? Public housing? Something else? Affordable housing is currently a huge issue affecting more than just the homeless. Unemployment in the current environment of high employment is related to lack of needed skills (training/education/apprenticeship), location (moving to where the jobs are which is expensive) and the medical issues (treatment/medication) that make it extremely hard to hold a job. In tough employment times you have to address creating new jobs and having a safety net to help people unable to find employment. Mental illness and addiction require treatment and medication that is very expensive in our current system.    Then most importantly you have to have homeless people working hard to overcome these issues and take advantage of the programs and help available to them, which for the people with medical issues is especially difficult due to the lack of affordable treatment options and affordability of medications.

There is no single magical solution to fix these issues. Shit is complex and requires addressing many factors.   Something we lack a common political and economic will to fix at this time. So basically nothing will happen until bad times really hit most Americans like during the Great Depression. However, ff we could, it would lead to a lot of positives like higher quality of life for most Americans, families not being destroyed or damaged, a large pool of new workers to help the economy keep humming, etc. The problem is it requires making many changes and spending money today, for a hopefully, better tomorrow.

Edited February 1 by Jhawkmvp

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

Just now, Dnaguy said:

Be cooler if ya did.

The whole world would be cooler if there were less people faced with an all or nothing binary lifestyle decision. 

[Brian Fantana 6668]

7 hours ago, crash_davis said:

Wrong or right, I consider homeless and tweaked out druggies passing out on streets as the same people. Yes there are homeless people down on their luck and need help making ends meet. We should be helping them. Druggy homeless fuckers, eh...

So that begs the question, who is responsible in fixing the homeless/drug issue? No matter the answer, we taxpayers are paying for it, whatever "it" is, whether it be enforcement and incarceration or copious amounts of mental hospitals and free mental care and drug treatment. Selfishly, I don't care, just get them off the streets/woods and into something, jail or mental health center, I don't care.

 

 

5 hours ago, crash_davis said:

So it's our fault because they are homeless druggies? My sarcasm meter is broke.

 

5 hours ago, crash_davis said:

If feeling superior is expecting people to act civilized and not like dipshit leeches to society, then yea, I'm feeling superior as fuck.

 

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

i can turn this around just as easily.

what does all this love for homeless people do for you. do you wrap yourself in it? does it help you face the real world, the idea that you are so much better than those who don't embrace in every once of suffering of the homeless? when you put them on pedestals, what's next? shall we give them everything, in addition to all the shit that that they steal?

Keep in mind y'all are arguing with this mother fucker, who straight up admitted in a DT thread he'd rather just kill every homeless person than try to solve any of the problems that create them in the first place.

[Dnaguy 11777]

6 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The whole world would be cooler if there were less people faced with an all or nothing binary lifestyle decision. 

I agree.

As a fellow surlitorian, I too am burdened by the crushing monotony of only banging 11's or spending my time posting here. Our binary lifestyle is a slog.

What would it be like to bag a 5?

Or what about just finger blasting an 8 because it's Tuesday and you just ate a double Whataburger with cheese and grilled onion + jalapenos?

... Or what would it be like to, say, watch a whole Longhorn football game without bitching about obvious ref fuckery or the need to fire the entire coaching staff?

 

It's the weight of this burden that is the real crime here IMO. Not drugs.

[Welshy 907]

6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

 

Keep in mind y'all are arguing with this mother fucker, who straight up admitted in a DT thread he'd rather just kill every homeless person than try to solve any of the problems that create them in the first place.

[safe sex 11684]

About 40% of homeless teens in America are queer. They are homeless because they were rejected by their birth families and large portions of society. They exist on the margins. Many of them are also sex workers, because it's the only way for them to survive. This comes with drug use very often, addiction, abuse, and suicidality. 

Fuck 'em, right? They should just take some personal responsibility for their choices in life. Bums.

[crash_davis 23084]

14 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

 

Keep in mind y'all are arguing with this mother fucker, who straight up admitted in a DT thread he'd rather just kill every homeless person than try to solve any of the problems that create them in the first place.

[Dnaguy 11777]

12 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

 

 

Keep in mind y'all are arguing with this mother fucker, who straight up admitted in a DT thread he'd rather just kill every homeless person than try to solve any of the problems that create them in the first place.

 

4 minutes ago, Welshy said:

 

IF we're being honest, no one likes homeless people. Killing them is a stretch... but they always kind of piss me off and are off putting.

I wonder if the uber wealthy ever see them or are pissed off as much.

I have assumed that I am so put off by them because deep down I know any slip up could result in me being one.

Losing your job, a bad medical outcome, mental illness, etc.

So much of society is on the razor edge of devolving into the sunburnt crazy drug addict peddler....

Maybe that's why we want to punish them so much.

Deep down, we are angry at our own circumstances that we take it out on those weaker than us who we hate b/c we don't want to ever become them.

[safe sex 11684]

I was supposed to see a patient today for some blood work. Mid 20s or so. Trans. Family kicked her out years ago. She's been living in motels, cars, whatever she can get by selling her body for a couple of years now. She was raped about a month or so ago. Never reported it, of course, because who cares? Just another drug addict tranny faggot who got what she deserved for being a whore. 

She didn't show. Didn't answer her phone (don't worry, fatty, it's a shitty flip phone! I've seen it). I couldn't call the cops for a welfare check even if she had a permanent address, because I'd rather slit my throat than force a trans person to interact with the police. I hope she isn't dead. Her arms are covered in self harm and other scars, some especially deep ones  around her lower wrists. 

But like whatever because that'd just be one less homeless person on the streets where a normie might see them.

[Brian Fantana 6668]

It's easier to just dismiss them as subhuman than realize but for circumstance, it could be you some day.

[956 Worldwide 34444]

24 minutes ago, Covri said:

This is bullshit and another attempt at justifying closet conservatives who can’t vote for the current Republican Party, but also want to pretend like we’re all the same to justify their shitty deep down views. Democrats, liberals, people, whatever don’t have a problem asking for help that’s available, just one side pretends they do (while accepting it) and demonizes the other side as moochers.
 

And they wrap up those views in religion for justification. Giving to your church that promotes hatred doesn’t make you generous, it makes you culpable.

Yeah, you’re kind of proving my point. One side of this views addiction, homelessness, etc. as the personal fault of those people struggling with those things. The other views it as the fault of people in society who don’t care and aren’t compassionate enough.  In both cases, we are identifying the primary problem as someone else’s moral failings and not a practical problem to solve with the tools we have from medicine to police to funding. 

We aren’t arguing about solving drug addiction. We’re arguing about how we should FEEL about drugs addiction.  We aren’t arguing about how to best make people healthier, housed, and our public spaces livable, we are arguing about how we should FEEL about those people.  Getting people healthy and housed and safe will probably require a healthy dose of both compassion and consequence but we aren’t allowed to dole out both. 

[Js1 85114]

9 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's easier to just dismiss them as subhuman than realize but for circumstance, it could be you some day.

They think they’re a lot closer to being a billionaire tomorrow than ending up homeless 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13547]

14 minutes ago, safe sex said:

About 40% of homeless teens in America are queer. They are homeless because they were rejected by their birth families and large portions of society. They exist on the margins. Many of them are also sex workers, because it's the only way for them to survive. This comes with drug use very often, addiction, abuse, and suicidality. 

Fuck 'em, right? They should just take some personal responsibility for their choices in life. Bums.

Makes sense. Shit I'm bitching about applies to average Americans. If you're not average then it makes sense the shit is only amplified and a good chunk will weigh the benefits and burdens and make what is arguably a quality over quantity of life decision.