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Posted
1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

We can share anecdotes all day long, even anecdotes that have nothing to do with FSD.  The vast majority of people in this thread have made up their minds about FSD without a full picture and will not be swayed by actual data.  That's fine.  It doesn't make for a very good discussion of an interesting and important topic... but internet points!!!

Tell that to the people who have had loved ones killed as a result of FSD malfeasance.

Posted
Just now, Guadaloopy said:

We can share anecdotes all day long, even anecdotes that have nothing to do with FSD.  The vast majority of people in this thread have made up their minds about FSD without a full picture and will not be swayed by actual data.  That's fine.  It doesn't make for a very good discussion of an interesting and important topic... but internet points!!!

and what does the comprehensive data (not mainly highway data and roads they've specifically programmed to scam gullible reporters) say? 

Posted
3 minutes ago, royiv said:

Tell that to the people who have had loved ones killed as a result of FSD malfeasance.

2 confirmed fatalities in 2 billion+ miles driven.  In 2023 (most recent data available), the US had an average automobile fatality rate of 1.26 per 100 million miles driven. 

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Guadaloopy said:

I'll point you to this independently maintained list of Tesla fatalities data: https://www.tesladeaths.com/

That's not accident data nor is it fsd fucked-up data. And of course if FSD is involved you're (nor LEO) not going to get that willingly from Tesla. The video we're discussing isn't a death but FSD almost killed or maimed at least 2 people in incredibly easy driving conditions.

Edited by Chopper
Posted
Just now, Guadaloopy said:

I've seen FSD Teslas do the exact same thing.

 

Just now, Guadaloopy said:

2 confirmed fatalities in 2 billion+ miles driven.  In 2023 (most recent data available), the US had an average automobile fatality rate of 1.26 per 100 million miles driven. 

Do you seriously think that's comprehensive data that anyone with a brain would use for comparative purposes? C'mon.

Why would a brand new 2025 auto with FSD engaged would move on an oncoming vehicle in the opposing lane like Anthony Hill moving on an oncoming RB?

Posted
3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

That's not accident data nor is it fsd fucked-up data. And of course if FSD is involved you're (nor LEO) not going to get that willingly from Tesla. The video we're discussing isn't a death but FSD almost killed or maimed at least 2 people in incredibly easy driving conditions.

I have a lot of experience with the system.  What I see in the video is driver overreaction to very minor preparatory maneuver by the vehicle.  It can be unsettling if you don't have experience with the system or the vehicle.   

When it comes to "what do the data say", I can only point out what they don't say.  There is not an epidemic of Tesla FSD accidents or fatalities that indicate significant safety risks to the public.  Show me those data, and I will change my stance accordingly.  We have had plenty of time for those data to surface, but they have not. 

Just now, Chopper said:

 

Do you seriously think that's comprehensive data that anyone with a brain would use for comparative purposes? C'mon.

Why would a brand new 2025 auto with FSD engaged would move on an oncoming vehicle in the opposing lane like Anthony Hill moving on an oncoming RB?

It didn't do that.  your confirmation bias is showing.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

 

That's the planned track.  You are familiar with the concept of relative motion, right?

Yes I am, apparently Tesla FSD is not.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, C-Man said:

FSD or nah, these things are death traps compared to other vehicles.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/tesla-highest-rate-deadly-accidents-study-1235176092/

No agenda with the Rolling Stone article at all...  Here is the full list of of the 23 vehicles that iseecars.com deemed "the most dangerous cars on the road."

image.thumb.png.ed2e9672b77877df6004e1e60ddde616.png 

 

From the iseecars.com article that Rolling Stone based its article on:
"A vehicle’s size, weight, and height certainly play a part in its ability to protect passengers in a crash,” said Brauer. “But the biggest contributor to occupant safety is avoiding a crash, and the biggest factor in crash avoidance is driver behavior. A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving.”

 

We've already established in various threads that many Tesla drivers drive like assholes.  Mix that in with the vehicle's acceleration and some drivers' unfamiliarity with regenerative braking, and operator error leads to a higher rate of accidents for these vehicles.

 

Posted
52 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I have a lot of experience with the system.  What I see in the video is driver overreaction to very minor preparatory maneuver by the vehicle.  It can be unsettling if you don't have experience with the system or the vehicle.   

When it comes to "what do the data say", I can only point out what they don't say.  There is not an epidemic of Tesla FSD accidents or fatalities that indicate significant safety risks to the public.  Show me those data, and I will change my stance accordingly.  We have had plenty of time for those data to surface, but they have not. 

It didn't do that.  your confirmation bias is showing.

So you have to go to a special class to learn to drive them? Do you get X-wing qualified as well?

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, elguapo said:

It's the driver's fault that Tesla builds cars that the average person can't figure out how to drive.

It's like I'm sitting here playing cards with my brother's kids...

There are three main categories of vehicles on that list...  shitboxes, rollovers, and performance vehicles.

Higher performance vehicles lead to higher instances of fatal crashes.  Teslas fit in with the performance vehicles on that list.

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Posted
Just now, Guadaloopy said:

It's like I'm sitting here playing cards with my brother's kids...

There are three main categories of vehicles on that list...  shitboxes, rollovers, and performance vehicles.

Higher performance vehicles lead to higher instances of fatal crashes.  Teslas fit in with the performance vehicles on that list.

They do? I guess it makes sense that someone who pays for FSD would believe that.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

They do? I guess it makes sense that someone who pays for FSD would believe that.

Model S has a better 0-60 than everything on the list except the Corvette.  Model S Plaid would make the 'vette look silly.  Model Y beats everything but the Corvette and 911.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Model S has a better 0-60 than everything on the list except the Corvette.  Model S Plaid would make the 'vette look silly.  Model Y beats everything but the Corvette and 911.

Standard model Y?

Posted
3 minutes ago, elguapo said:

Standard model Y?

The AWD Model Y is 4.8 seconds.  V-8 Camaro would beat it, V-6 would not... but the fact that we are splitting these hairs proves my point.

 

 

Posted

 

I'm thinking the FSD actually makes the car less safe, due to drivers thinking they can just jack off (literally or figuratively) while driving. Also those touch screens to control things like AC and the radio are inherently unsafe (and should be illegal imo) because you have to take your eyes off the road to use them. 

Yes, I realize that not only Teslas have the touch screens. 

 

Teslas may or may not have high passive safety and active safety (engineered safety), I don't know. But the shitass drivers cancel that right out. 

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Posted

 

 

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

So you have to go to a special class to learn to drive them? Do you get X-wing qualified as well?

 

Yes. They take you there on a special, short bus. 

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Posted
6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

He knows whatever the teens and 20-somethings around him have told him.  

Elon leans over the ridiculous gaming chair, dressed increasingly like Neo

“Let’s use a Freddie here instead of a JSON. More hardcore.”

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Posted
5 hours ago, safe sex said:

I've also seen Teslas almost turn into incoming traffic so ymmv 🤷‍♀️

Maybe the Teslas just did Nazi it coming?

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Posted
1 hour ago, locodos said:

What do you think Musk has on him?  

I think he bailed him out of a huge financial mess. It's been known for decades that much of his "wealth" is illusory.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Lmfao the US Dept of State released its budget forecast and it's largest single line item is $400,000,000 for armored Tesla's

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/FY25-Procurement-Forecast.xlsx

 

That is really interesting. I know there are (were?) larger programs than that. For instance INL aviation is pretty damn big, but is that per year over 5? The Advisor support for Peacekeeping operations is forecasted at 750M over 5 years.

A few things I spot.

1- Award date. End of the fiscal year so they can use unpledged funds.

2- The NAICS code is all fucked up.

311999 - All Other Miscellaneous Food Manufacturing

The proper NAICS is

336992 - Military Armored Vehicle, Tank and Tank Component Manufacturing

But there are others that are messed up. I like the one for local guard services for belgium.

311830 - Tortilla Manufacturing

So where are you going to charge these things out in the middle of no where?

Posted
1 hour ago, locodos said:

What do you think Musk has on him?  

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

No idea. He might just know what others have on him. like vlad.

But damn this break up is going to be interesting.

27 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I think he bailed him out of a huge financial mess. It's been known for decades that much of his "wealth" is illusory.

Many years of Twitter DMs as well.  And Trump or members of his family or his associates probably had phones hacked more than once and Musk has the goods.

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